We’ll be close enough to get EDGE2 probably Hutchinson who isn’t far off plus we can probably get Linderbaum with the other pick. We don’t need one player we need a lot
and got the 11th overall, a 4th rounder, and a 2022 1st rouner. That's quite a haul for Jaylen Waddle. If I get that offer, I'm taking it, maybe we can get a high second rounder rather than a first rouner next year if we want a more immediate impact.
but I want to float this idea out as I could understand hedging our bets with him.
- Use 1 of the 1st 2 picks on an edge. It is probably pretty reasonable that there will be value there for 1 of the picks.
- Trade the other 1st for a 2022 #1 and 2021 #2 or somewhat like that. I then draft 2 OL within the 1st 3 rounds (4 picks) and round out with defensive talent.
- Skill position wise we have to hope for better health (Barkely, Golladay, Sheppard, Toney) so we beef up the line and give Jones the best chance of success.
- I also add talent on defense.
If the bed is crapped by Jones or Barkely/Golladay especially turn out to be fragile, we have 2 #1's in 2022 for a reboot.
Aidan Hutchinson and Karlaftis both look really good. Hutchinson may be a long lost brother of the Bosas, while Karlaftis reminds me of Justin Tuck.
Find Graham (or whoever the DC is) guys who can rush the passer and win their matchup up front- stop worrying about whether or not they fit the prototype of a 3-4/4-3 etc.
Aidan Hutchinson and Karlaftis both look really good. Hutchinson may be a long lost brother of the Bosas, while Karlaftis reminds me of Justin Tuck.
Find Graham (or whoever the DC is) guys who can rush the passer and win their matchup up front- stop worrying about whether or not they fit the prototype of a 3-4/4-3 etc.
I’d also keep Jones. I’d then alternate who plays by down. Sometimes, I’d play them all at once. Occasionally, I’d play them on defense too. I’d also lose a lot of games, but hopefully the wackiness will let the crowd go home with a smile on their face.
but I want to float this idea out as I could understand hedging our bets with him.
- Use 1 of the 1st 2 picks on an edge. It is probably pretty reasonable that there will be value there for 1 of the picks.
- Trade the other 1st for a 2022 #1 and 2021 #2 or somewhat like that. I then draft 2 OL within the 1st 3 rounds (4 picks) and round out with defensive talent.
- Skill position wise we have to hope for better health (Barkely, Golladay, Sheppard, Toney) so we beef up the line and give Jones the best chance of success.
- I also add talent on defense.
If the bed is crapped by Jones or Barkely/Golladay especially turn out to be fragile, we have 2 #1's in 2022 for a reboot.
I had this same thought, or close to it.
It's too early to bail on Jones and this is not the year to draft a QB with the lack of talent at the position in 2022. I would also try to trade down or one of our 1st this year to acquire an additional 1st next year in case we need to move up for a QB in 23'
Jags are going to win games. They have talent in offense. Houston might be the worst team in the league. Lions have been in many games so I can see them stealing a win or two. Jets aren’t good but if they can get healthy in defense - they have some winnable games.
If Barkley and Golladay continue to be hobbled. And if our defense quits ala 2017 - we may get 3 wins this year.
Jags are going to win games. They have talent in offense. Houston might be the worst team in the league. Lions have been in many games so I can see them stealing a win or two. Jets aren’t good but if they can get healthy in defense - they have some winnable games.
If Barkley and Golladay continue to be hobbled. And if our defense quits ala 2017 - we may get 3 wins this year.
Jax: Hou, at NYJ, Atl
Mia: NYJ(2), NYG, Hou, Atl
Hou: at Mia, NYJ, at Jax
NYJ: Mia(2), at Hou, Jax
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
Fair question. My thought is he has one more year on the contract and then an option year. I have no faith in this upcoming draft class. Just not seeing the talent at QB. You can always get lucky and find a Dak Prescott in later rounds, but that is not a plan. It's a happy accident. You could trade Jones in 2022, but could just as easily do it in 2023, and I don't think compensation at this point would be any different. The reality is, most teams in the NFL are happy with their QB, or have invested in a young player they are not willing to move on from yet. Giants need to be patient another year.
Good FA QBs rarely hit the market, and the best you can hope for is a journeyman or decent back up. Not a plan to improve a team. Some will say Rodgers, but I'm not paying that price. Best you can hope for is Fitzpatrick, Trubisky, or a Teddy Bridgewater type. You may save 3-5 million, maybe, but you end up right back where you started.
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
RE: I have used the term Draft Capital. Do so in more of the abstract
of a generalized asset a team has at its disposal. Versus referring to 6 or 7 specific draft picks that they may have in an individual year.
Oh, and when I am trying to look fancy...
This appears to be something that gets stuck in PJ's craw every time it's mentioned. But not enough that he ever acknowledges the defined difference between "draft picks" and "draft capital" even though it gets explained every time he whines about it.
It's the equivalent to complaining about someone looking for a wallet that can contain a certain number of bills and asking why they don't just ask how much money it can hold.
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
RE: RE: RE: Use one and trade down with the other one
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
I meant in 2022 (not 2021).
RE: RE: RE: Use one and trade down with the other one
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
Exactly.
Let's say we enter the draft with the 5th and 10th picks. I'd use the 5th pick for a blue chipper, and then if someone came calling for the 10th in the same way that Chicago did for our pick last year, I'd quickly dump it for any 2022 first round pick and a mid-rounder to go along with it and a 2023 first rounder. I think there's an opportunity to use our existing draft capital to position ourselves for a QB prospect that we can build around, and still maintain our quantity of draft picks in the current cycle.
Yes, very good. Might as well take advantage of being in the
of a generalized asset a team has at its disposal. Versus referring to 6 or 7 specific draft picks that they may have in an individual year.
Oh, and when I am trying to look fancy...
This appears to be something that gets stuck in PJ's craw every time it's mentioned. But not enough that he ever acknowledges the defined difference between "draft picks" and "draft capital" even though it gets explained every time he whines about it.
It's the equivalent to complaining about someone looking for a wallet that can contain a certain number of bills and asking why they don't just ask how much money it can hold.
There is literally no difference between draft picks and draft capital. If you need a made up word to differentiate between a 7th round pick and the value it holds and a 1st round pick and the value it holds no spoken word is going to help you understand, even made up ones.
If you are going to use draft capital to signify a higher more valuable draft pick, you are simply using a made up term that is completely irrelevant used initially by inane talking heads and adopted by inane internet users.
On Defense:
1--- The Giants need two Edges unless you put Williams at one spot.
2--- They need at least 2 OLB's and one ILB.
3--- DO you also look for CB to replace Jackson? Or at least get another CB?
4--- They do need a Safety.
***There is a need for 6-7 players on Defense.
On Offense:
1--- They need an OT. Peart is still a huge question and so far an enormous question at LT. Unless we want a Solder type?
2--- Price is not a good center.
3--- Which OG can you rely on that you can say is going to win the Line of Scrimmage?
4--- They need at least one Tight End if not two.
5--- Paying a lot for Barkley. Is he worth it?
6-- Shep is a huge question as is Slayton in and Golladay so far seems to be have injury issues.
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
Depends on the draft pick. Jones is at this point what he is (a Kent Graham level QB IMO) but that might be enough to evaluate the rest of the roster in 2022, assuming there won't be an immediate starter in the draft and the Giants won't have the money to sign a replacement easily.
it's either draft picks or what is the other thing? Oh, there is no other thing, so maybe try not to be mr fancypants and just say draft picks.
Drafting OLs jut have a higher rate of hitting in the first round. Play the odds.
- Use 1 of the 1st 2 picks on an edge. It is probably pretty reasonable that there will be value there for 1 of the picks.
- Trade the other 1st for a 2022 #1 and 2021 #2 or somewhat like that. I then draft 2 OL within the 1st 3 rounds (4 picks) and round out with defensive talent.
- Skill position wise we have to hope for better health (Barkely, Golladay, Sheppard, Toney) so we beef up the line and give Jones the best chance of success.
- I also add talent on defense.
If the bed is crapped by Jones or Barkely/Golladay especially turn out to be fragile, we have 2 #1's in 2022 for a reboot.
Aidan Hutchinson and Karlaftis both look really good. Hutchinson may be a long lost brother of the Bosas, while Karlaftis reminds me of Justin Tuck.
Find Graham (or whoever the DC is) guys who can rush the passer and win their matchup up front- stop worrying about whether or not they fit the prototype of a 3-4/4-3 etc.
This team needs a pass rush in the worst way
Aidan Hutchinson and Karlaftis both look really good. Hutchinson may be a long lost brother of the Bosas, while Karlaftis reminds me of Justin Tuck.
Find Graham (or whoever the DC is) guys who can rush the passer and win their matchup up front- stop worrying about whether or not they fit the prototype of a 3-4/4-3 etc.
This team needs a pass rush in the worst way
+1.
Time to build the D, and hopefully get healthy on O.
it's either draft picks or what is the other thing? Oh, there is no other thing, so maybe try not to be mr fancypants and just say draft picks.
The way I've understood it is that "picks" might simply refer to quantity of selections. Capital refers to value.
If you trade your 1st round pick for a 5th, 6th, and 7th, you've increased your draft picks but worsened your draft capital.
Oh, and when I am trying to look fancy...
- Use 1 of the 1st 2 picks on an edge. It is probably pretty reasonable that there will be value there for 1 of the picks.
- Trade the other 1st for a 2022 #1 and 2021 #2 or somewhat like that. I then draft 2 OL within the 1st 3 rounds (4 picks) and round out with defensive talent.
- Skill position wise we have to hope for better health (Barkely, Golladay, Sheppard, Toney) so we beef up the line and give Jones the best chance of success.
- I also add talent on defense.
If the bed is crapped by Jones or Barkely/Golladay especially turn out to be fragile, we have 2 #1's in 2022 for a reboot.
I had this same thought, or close to it.
It's too early to bail on Jones and this is not the year to draft a QB with the lack of talent at the position in 2022. I would also try to trade down or one of our 1st this year to acquire an additional 1st next year in case we need to move up for a QB in 23'
I'd just make the picks or trade out of the Chicago one for a later first and the gravy if it's too good to pass up.
Giants
Jets
Jags
Texans
Lions
Jags are going to win games. They have talent in offense. Houston might be the worst team in the league. Lions have been in many games so I can see them stealing a win or two. Jets aren’t good but if they can get healthy in defense - they have some winnable games.
If Barkley and Golladay continue to be hobbled. And if our defense quits ala 2017 - we may get 3 wins this year.
Giants
Jets
Jags
Texans
Lions
Jags are going to win games. They have talent in offense. Houston might be the worst team in the league. Lions have been in many games so I can see them stealing a win or two. Jets aren’t good but if they can get healthy in defense - they have some winnable games.
If Barkley and Golladay continue to be hobbled. And if our defense quits ala 2017 - we may get 3 wins this year.
Jax: Hou, at NYJ, Atl
Mia: NYJ(2), NYG, Hou, Atl
Hou: at Mia, NYJ, at Jax
NYJ: Mia(2), at Hou, Jax
The schedule provides hope.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
Quote:
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
Fair question. My thought is he has one more year on the contract and then an option year. I have no faith in this upcoming draft class. Just not seeing the talent at QB. You can always get lucky and find a Dak Prescott in later rounds, but that is not a plan. It's a happy accident. You could trade Jones in 2022, but could just as easily do it in 2023, and I don't think compensation at this point would be any different. The reality is, most teams in the NFL are happy with their QB, or have invested in a young player they are not willing to move on from yet. Giants need to be patient another year.
Good FA QBs rarely hit the market, and the best you can hope for is a journeyman or decent back up. Not a plan to improve a team. Some will say Rodgers, but I'm not paying that price. Best you can hope for is Fitzpatrick, Trubisky, or a Teddy Bridgewater type. You may save 3-5 million, maybe, but you end up right back where you started.
Just some thoughts
and the A&M or Iowa OL.
you are on your way to building a better foundation for the team.
the former could be possible with our pick... the latter with the bears.
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Oh, and when I am trying to look fancy...
This appears to be something that gets stuck in PJ's craw every time it's mentioned. But not enough that he ever acknowledges the defined difference between "draft picks" and "draft capital" even though it gets explained every time he whines about it.
It's the equivalent to complaining about someone looking for a wallet that can contain a certain number of bills and asking why they don't just ask how much money it can hold.
Quote:
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
Quote:
In comment 15422947 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
I meant in 2022 (not 2021).
Quote:
In comment 15422947 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and try and get 1 blue chip and at least two other red chip players out of the two picks...
I would try to use one for a blue chip prospect and use the other to kick the extra pick out an extra year again unless we are targeting a QB prospect. We have the luxury of having an extra 1st round pick, and we can keep that luxury for a few years if we need to while we get our legs under us.
Good thought. As long as it also comes with some pick compensation in 2021 as well. Build up the infrastructure while you await your QB prince to come...
Exactly.
Let's say we enter the draft with the 5th and 10th picks. I'd use the 5th pick for a blue chipper, and then if someone came calling for the 10th in the same way that Chicago did for our pick last year, I'd quickly dump it for any 2022 first round pick and a mid-rounder to go along with it and a 2023 first rounder. I think there's an opportunity to use our existing draft capital to position ourselves for a QB prospect that we can build around, and still maintain our quantity of draft picks in the current cycle.
Quote:
of a generalized asset a team has at its disposal. Versus referring to 6 or 7 specific draft picks that they may have in an individual year.
Oh, and when I am trying to look fancy...
This appears to be something that gets stuck in PJ's craw every time it's mentioned. But not enough that he ever acknowledges the defined difference between "draft picks" and "draft capital" even though it gets explained every time he whines about it.
It's the equivalent to complaining about someone looking for a wallet that can contain a certain number of bills and asking why they don't just ask how much money it can hold.
There is literally no difference between draft picks and draft capital. If you need a made up word to differentiate between a 7th round pick and the value it holds and a 1st round pick and the value it holds no spoken word is going to help you understand, even made up ones.
If you are going to use draft capital to signify a higher more valuable draft pick, you are simply using a made up term that is completely irrelevant used initially by inane talking heads and adopted by inane internet users.
but keeping using it. You seem smart.
On Defense:
1--- The Giants need two Edges unless you put Williams at one spot.
2--- They need at least 2 OLB's and one ILB.
3--- DO you also look for CB to replace Jackson? Or at least get another CB?
4--- They do need a Safety.
***There is a need for 6-7 players on Defense.
On Offense:
1--- They need an OT. Peart is still a huge question and so far an enormous question at LT. Unless we want a Solder type?
2--- Price is not a good center.
3--- Which OG can you rely on that you can say is going to win the Line of Scrimmage?
4--- They need at least one Tight End if not two.
5--- Paying a lot for Barkley. Is he worth it?
6-- Shep is a huge question as is Slayton in and Golladay so far seems to be have injury issues.
On Offense need 4-7 players.
So team needs 10-14 new players.
I don't think taking an Ole Miss QB has ever worked well for the Giants...
Quote:
But I would not trade two top ten picks to grab a player that was not the projected franchise QB or LT. If it's an edge rusher, he better be the next LT. I'd trade a first round pick, plus a player or later round pick for Kayvon Thibodeaux, but not two top ten first rounders.
Just some larger thoughts. This team is not one player away, and my amateur analysis tells me there are no QBs in the upcoming draft that are can't miss franchise QB types. The best move for the Giants, given that they have mortgaged future cap space, is to keep Jones for at least one more year, collect as many draft picks as possible in rounds 1-3, and grab as much cheap talent as possible for this roster. The next GM has to bring this mentality/
Why not trade Jones for a draft pick and go with a rookie or cheap FA in 2022? If we're not going to sign him to a new contract why not just get something for him now?
Depends on the draft pick. Jones is at this point what he is (a Kent Graham level QB IMO) but that might be enough to evaluate the rest of the roster in 2022, assuming there won't be an immediate starter in the draft and the Giants won't have the money to sign a replacement easily.
A 3rd or higher and I'd send Jones packing.