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NFT: How did the Red Sox..

Producer : 10/19/2021 9:51 pm
I'll be honest I can't follow baseball closely any more. It's too boring. How did the Red Sox get here? What is the story of their season?

They were supposed to be bottom dwellers and now they are two games from the World Series? How have they built it back up in a year? And why can't the Yankees do this?
I think last year is more of an anomaly than anything  
Breeze_94 : 10/19/2021 9:58 pm : link
they have a really good lineup..

Boegarts, Devers, and Martinez are 3 of the better hitters in the AL.


Verdugo, Hernandez, Renfroe are also no slouches plus adding Schwarber at the deadline
they definitely had a good offense  
Producer : 10/19/2021 10:08 pm : link
4th in runs in the AL

but they toppled the Rays who had a much better run diff +206 to +80. And now they might topple the Astros who were +205.

I'm wondering have they found any efficiency that is propelling them? Or are they just hot?
RE: they definitely had a good offense  
Mike in NY : 10/19/2021 10:15 pm : link
In comment 15422195 Producer said:
Quote:
4th in runs in the AL

but they toppled the Rays who had a much better run diff +206 to +80. And now they might topple the Astros who were +205.

I'm wondering have they found any efficiency that is propelling them? Or are they just hot?


Regular season run differential is overrated in the playoffs. In a 5 game series you are using your best relievers at least 4 games. Since there are days off between games 2 and 3 and between games 4 and 5 you could have a reliever go in 1, 2, one of 3 or 4, and 5. How often can you get 4 out of 5 games from multiple arms in the regular season? If you have a strong pen you don’t need the starter to go through the lineup a 3rd time.
RE: RE: they definitely had a good offense  
Producer : 10/19/2021 10:17 pm : link
In comment 15422198 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15422195 Producer said:


Quote:


4th in runs in the AL

but they toppled the Rays who had a much better run diff +206 to +80. And now they might topple the Astros who were +205.

I'm wondering have they found any efficiency that is propelling them? Or are they just hot?



Regular season run differential is overrated in the playoffs. In a 5 game series you are using your best relievers at least 4 games. Since there are days off between games 2 and 3 and between games 4 and 5 you could have a reliever go in 1, 2, one of 3 or 4, and 5. How often can you get 4 out of 5 games from multiple arms in the regular season? If you have a strong pen you don’t need the starter to go through the lineup a 3rd time.


right, I get it, the game is played differently. That helped the 90s Yanks with their great bullpen. Do the Red Sox have an exceptionally good bullpen?
RE: RE: RE: they definitely had a good offense  
Mike in NY : 10/19/2021 10:28 pm : link
In comment 15422200 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15422198 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15422195 Producer said:


Quote:


4th in runs in the AL

but they toppled the Rays who had a much better run diff +206 to +80. And now they might topple the Astros who were +205.

I'm wondering have they found any efficiency that is propelling them? Or are they just hot?



Regular season run differential is overrated in the playoffs. In a 5 game series you are using your best relievers at least 4 games. Since there are days off between games 2 and 3 and between games 4 and 5 you could have a reliever go in 1, 2, one of 3 or 4, and 5. How often can you get 4 out of 5 games from multiple arms in the regular season? If you have a strong pen you don’t need the starter to go through the lineup a 3rd time.



right, I get it, the game is played differently. That helped the 90s Yanks with their great bullpen. Do the Red Sox have an exceptionally good bullpen?


They are not all that heralded, but Whitlock had a strong year out of the pen and can give the multiple inning stints that Miller gave for Indians. Taylor is really strong against lefties. More contact to righties, but he keeps it to singles. Houck’s stuff also ticked up being used out of the pen and he can go 2 innings as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: they definitely had a good offense  
Producer : 10/19/2021 10:38 pm : link
In comment 15422206 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15422200 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15422198 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15422195 Producer said:


Quote:


4th in runs in the AL

but they toppled the Rays who had a much better run diff +206 to +80. And now they might topple the Astros who were +205.

I'm wondering have they found any efficiency that is propelling them? Or are they just hot?



Regular season run differential is overrated in the playoffs. In a 5 game series you are using your best relievers at least 4 games. Since there are days off between games 2 and 3 and between games 4 and 5 you could have a reliever go in 1, 2, one of 3 or 4, and 5. How often can you get 4 out of 5 games from multiple arms in the regular season? If you have a strong pen you don’t need the starter to go through the lineup a 3rd time.



right, I get it, the game is played differently. That helped the 90s Yanks with their great bullpen. Do the Red Sox have an exceptionally good bullpen?



They are not all that heralded, but Whitlock had a strong year out of the pen and can give the multiple inning stints that Miller gave for Indians. Taylor is really strong against lefties. More contact to righties, but he keeps it to singles. Houck’s stuff also ticked up being used out of the pen and he can go 2 innings as well.


Thanks for the Red Sox primer!
Chris Sale's  
Rory : 10/19/2021 10:39 pm : link
return and that timing was huge too.

Surprised nobody is mentioning Kike Hernandez though. He has been unreal
RE: Chris Sale's  
Jalapeno : 10/19/2021 10:58 pm : link
In comment 15422214 Rory said:
Quote:
return and that timing was huge too.

Surprised nobody is mentioning Kike Hernandez though. He has been unreal


Yeah Kike and then Verdugo was a great steal in that Dodgers trade for Mookie.

I have been following them since Spring training as I am a huge fan and early on they looked like a less than 80 win team on paper mainly due to their pitching concerns.

But after they lost their first series 0-3 to Baltimore and won 10-12 in a row they exploded and sailed right to the All Star break. Then they had an epic collapse and had to fight their way back in it.

If they didn't get hot to start the year they likely wouldn't be here.
They have an amazing team. Something special happened to them this year. They love Alex Cora. And they have gotten insanely hot again. They found out how to click again on offense and focus also on the next at bat and not just their own.

Chris Sale has done wonders for motivation as well even if his last few games were mediocre. He is a leader and a voice they respect.

There is no real answer. Just a great baseball story so far.
9th inning rally  
Jalapeno : 10/19/2021 11:52 pm : link
turning into a 9th inning rout.

Gunna be a 7 game series I betcha.
Cora is an amazing manager  
Bob from Massachusetts : 10/20/2021 8:18 am : link
They have completely re-done their bullpen. In the first half-2/3 of the season, their high-leverage bullpen people were Barnes (not on the playoff roster) Ottavino (who had is stumbles but looks like he might be returning to form) and Sawamura (who has barely pitched in the playoffs). Now it's Whitlock (who had limited work early due to recovery from Tommy John, Brasier (not active most of the year), and Tanner Houck (who will be a starter next year. He has trouble the third time through a line-up. He has added a third pitch which now increases his effectiveness). Cora does a beautiful job managing what isn't really a good bullpen by mixing and matching. The players love him
Red Sox will go as far as their bats take them  
Stu11 : 10/20/2021 8:24 am : link
They are not gonna win tight low scoring playoff games like last night. They're pitching isn't good enough. They're starters don't give them length and their pen just isn't good enough to shut teams down cold 4 or 5 innings a night. Their bats got scorching hot at the perfect time. If they stay this hot they can win it all.
You had asked, "why can't the Yankees do this?"  
PA Aggie : 10/20/2021 8:35 am : link
The quick answer is, they just didn't hit.

As discussed many times on Yankee threads, just a few years ago, Gio, DJL, Sanchez, and Torres had their bats on fire. Throw in some production from Gardner and Hicks and that was over half of your lineup. Boston and Houston (and Rays) get MUCH better production from the lower half of their lineups.

This year, geez, none of these guys would be starting on any of the final four teams, maybe final eight? How can production just fall off a cliff like it did? It wasn't just the hitting coach specifically. It is likely related to the 'swing for the fences' approach producing lots of pop outs and strike outs. (Gallo struck out almost 50% of his plate appearances while sporting a .160 avg...) Almost every stat in hitting was low if not miserable.

I am fine with their pitching staff and BP, but something drastic needs to be done in their approach at the plate, whether it is a philosophy or personnel. That starts at the GM's office.
RE: You had asked,  
Bob from Massachusetts : 10/20/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15422320 PA Aggie said:
Quote:
The quick answer is, they just didn't hit.

As discussed many times on Yankee threads, just a few years ago, Gio, DJL, Sanchez, and Torres had their bats on fire. Throw in some production from Gardner and Hicks and that was over half of your lineup. Boston and Houston (and Rays) get MUCH better production from the lower half of their lineups.

This year, geez, none of these guys would be starting on any of the final four teams, maybe final eight? How can production just fall off a cliff like it did? It wasn't just the hitting coach specifically. It is likely related to the 'swing for the fences' approach producing lots of pop outs and strike outs. (Gallo struck out almost 50% of his plate appearances while sporting a .160 avg...) Almost every stat in hitting was low if not miserable.

I am fine with their pitching staff and BP, but something drastic needs to be done in their approach at the plate, whether it is a philosophy or personnel. That starts at the GM's office.


My perspective on the Yankees is that a lot of their hitters hit for power, not average. They just don't seem to have the versatility. Judge is a great hitter overall, DJ didn't hit for most of the year, and you're left with people like Joey Gallo and Sanchez who if they don't hit home runs strike out a lot. It took Stanton a long time to come around as well.

The Sox have a fair amount of guys who manage to get on base and more guys that hit for a good average (Martinez, Bogearts, Devers to an extent, Verdugo, and now holy cow, Kike) so they have more flexibility.

The Yankees need more people like Judge and DJ, fewer like Gallo and Sanchez. Also, I don't follow them closely enough to understand what happened with Torres--what happened to him? Was it the position switch?
Some guys offensively  
Carson53 : 10/20/2021 1:33 pm : link
have had career years, Kike, and Renfroe for starters.
Two organizations (Padres and Rays) thought Renfroe was only
a platoon player, in fact the never make a mistake Rays cut him after the season as in DFA.
He is going to make some money this offseason.
Sale coming back helped, but he hasn't pitched well in the postseason.
When you have been scoring about 10 runs a game in the postseason, that certainly helps.
Their pitching is nothing special.
I have not been watching a lot since the Yanks were eliminated. I saw a little of the first few games, and saw the last couple innings of Game 4.
How many times have the Red Sox lapped the Yankees  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/20/2021 1:35 pm : link
now since 2004? And the Yankees just keep doing the same old thing and keep Cashman year after year after year. Pathetic.
RE: How many times have the Red Sox lapped the Yankees  
Carson53 : 10/20/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15422826 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
now since 2004? And the Yankees just keep doing the same old thing and keep Cashman year after year after year. Pathetic.
.

It seems it is feast or famine for the Sawx.
I mean they also finish in last place too,
when not winning. Hal is just too scared to get rid
of Cashman, he has one year left on his deal...you can hope.
Sox getting pounded again today  
Stan in LA : 10/20/2021 7:36 pm : link
After ex-Yanks 'All World' Whitlock and Eovaldi get hammered last night.

Nice to see.
RE: Sox getting pounded again today  
Jalapeno : 10/20/2021 8:46 pm : link
In comment 15423160 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
After ex-Yanks 'All World' Whitlock and Eovaldi get hammered last night.

Nice to see.


It makes me sad haha.

Gunna be tough for Boston to win two in Houston after dropping two at home.
This is giving me heartburn and itching my alcoholism.

Fenway was a massive party all year. This can't be the end of Fenway This year.
RE: RE: Sox getting pounded again today  
Producer : 10/20/2021 8:54 pm : link
In comment 15423210 Jalapeno said:
Quote:
In comment 15423160 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


After ex-Yanks 'All World' Whitlock and Eovaldi get hammered last night.

Nice to see.



It makes me sad haha.

Gunna be tough for Boston to win two in Houston after dropping two at home.
This is giving me heartburn and itching my alcoholism.

Fenway was a massive party all year. This can't be the end of Fenway This year.


There's always next year.
Producer  
Jalapeno : 10/20/2021 8:57 pm : link
Oh shut it hahaha
One of the cheating teams in now done.  
Stan in LA : 10/23/2021 1:21 pm : link
Funny after game 3 the Astros said their pitchers were 'tipping pitches' and from that point on...

The Sox got SHUT DOWN the last 3 games.

Astros know how to shut down cheating since they invented it.
RE: You had asked,  
djm : 10/23/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15422320 PA Aggie said:
Quote:
The quick answer is, they just didn't hit.

As discussed many times on Yankee threads, just a few years ago, Gio, DJL, Sanchez, and Torres had their bats on fire. Throw in some production from Gardner and Hicks and that was over half of your lineup. Boston and Houston (and Rays) get MUCH better production from the lower half of their lineups.

This year, geez, none of these guys would be starting on any of the final four teams, maybe final eight? How can production just fall off a cliff like it did? It wasn't just the hitting coach specifically. It is likely related to the 'swing for the fences' approach producing lots of pop outs and strike outs. (Gallo struck out almost 50% of his plate appearances while sporting a .160 avg...) Almost every stat in hitting was low if not miserable.

I am fine with their pitching staff and BP, but something drastic needs to be done in their approach at the plate, whether it is a philosophy or personnel. That starts at the GM's office.


I agree with this for the most part. The yanks seemed to have a fine approach over the last 6 weeks or so but maybe they just mashed more HRs which makes any approach look good.

Torres and DJLM killed the yanks this year. Can’t have that occur next year.
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