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Looking at the roster as a whole

Breeze_94 : 10/19/2021 10:39 pm
Just trying to wrap my head around why this has been so bad for so long and it got me thinking...when is the last time this org actually nailed a pick outside of the first 2 rounds?

Yes, the Giants have had late rounders like Slayton and Crowder move into starting roles, but that is because they have a bad roster. Not because those guys are starting caliber players.

In the Gettleman era, Gates as an UDFA is the only player outside of the first 2 rounds that that has gone on to become a starting caliber player and earned a nice second contract.

It makes it a lot harder to win in the NFL when you can't find any starting caliber player outside of the first 2 rounds and spending big in FA. Plus, factoring the big misses (Apple, Flowers, Baker, etc).. no wonder this teams been so bad.


I'd argue you can go all the way back to 2014, Devon Kennard, before finding a draftee outside of the first 2 rounds who has been starting caliber at any point (hence getting a decent second contract with Detroit)

And before that, it's Manningham back in 2008...


So how can a team be this bad at drafting for so long?
it's unfortunate that we took brightwell  
Producer : 10/19/2021 10:49 pm : link
when Khalil Herbert was on the board
Look at Dallas  
Breeze_94 : 10/19/2021 10:53 pm : link
getting guys like Dak, Odighizuwa, Pollard, Shultz, Gallup, Biadasz outside of the first 2 rounds

Or Baltimore- from 2015 to 2019 landed
Baltimore from 2015 to 2019

- Orlando Brown (traded for a 1)
- Mark Andrews
- Za'Darius Smith
- Matt Judon
- Tavon Young
- Chuck Clark
- Deshone Elliott
- Bradley Bozeman (6)
- Ben Powers
Are any of DG draft pick up for 2nd contracts?  
George from PA : 10/19/2021 11:04 pm : link
Not saying there will be....but saying Gates was only one with 2nd contract.....is because he was an udfa....as all 4 drafts are still on rookie contracts.

Not arguing point...just clarifying
Haven’t hit on  
Dave in PA : 10/19/2021 11:08 pm : link
First or second rounders either
Could also be coaching...  
D HOS : 10/20/2021 12:04 am : link
Maybe other teams are just better at coaching up the lower round guys than we are.
...  
broadbandz : 10/20/2021 3:11 am : link
The patriots probably take a guy like Peart and make him damn near pro bowl calibur. Thats just the way it is. The Giants have had the league bottom coaches for yrs. That O-line coach Shurmur hired is the same guy that retired Andrew Luck and we payed to have him coach here.
RE: Could also be coaching...  
Dnew15 : 10/20/2021 8:16 am : link
In comment 15422238 D HOS said:
Quote:
Maybe other teams are just better at coaching up the lower round guys than we are.


THis is another huge problem.

Andrew Thomas and Gates are the only two players that got better AFTER becoming a Giant.

Everyone else either was drafted, and the got worse (Hernandez) or had a great first year as a Giant and then got worse (Bradberry).
RE: Haven’t hit on  
DannyDimes : 10/20/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15422228 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
First or second rounders either


So you are saying:

Andrew Thomas: Bust
Daniel Jones: Bust
Barkley: Bust
Toney: Bust
Xavier McKinney: Bust
Sterling Sheppard: Bust

Are you really this much of a douche?


RE: RE: Haven’t hit on  
jvm52106 : 10/20/2021 8:31 am : link
In comment 15422309 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15422228 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


First or second rounders either



So you are saying:

Andrew Thomas: Bust
Daniel Jones: Bust
Barkley: Bust
Toney: Bust
Xavier McKinney: Bust
Sterling Sheppard: Bust

Are you really this much of a douche?



Barkley cannot be considered a hit when all we had was a great rookie year and since very little.

Jones is a hotly debated topic here so can't say that was a hit yet.
Lawrence is good but that doesn't mean much on a team that needs major production and the position he plays just doesn't allow for that without others around him being good.

Baker BUST and gone.

Toney, looks exciting right now but it can still be argued was that the right pick for us and considering where we are right now the answer would be OL should have been the target.

McKinney hasn't shown anything yet to say he is a HIT. He shows potential and isn't a bust but, we haven't seen him take over his position in a way that says we are set.
RE: Could also be coaching...  
Gruber : 10/20/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15422238 D HOS said:
Quote:
Maybe other teams are just better at coaching up the lower round guys than we are.


Yes. You don't just draft guys, you then have to develop them, especially at the line of scrimmage.
Having said that, the belief that the OLine was good and that we were a play-off competing team and the failure to recognise the opposite and the need to rebuild led to strategic errors in drafting, by taking a running back with the #2 pick.
The draft is meant for Best player available  
George from PA : 10/20/2021 8:40 am : link
And FA is for specific needs....

Toney and a 5th...that netted Robinson(tbd), and Chicagos 1st and 3rd next year....is a HR.

I like Barkley but I totally get bust....availability is key.

Jones must be TBD

Thomas has shown enough to me.

The things is the draft is a crap shoot....we always compare our drafts to the best drafts or success stories...being average or better than average is good, imo.

And I will add....its about winning. If you are not winning....everything sucks.
RE: RE: Haven’t hit on  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/20/2021 8:50 am : link
In comment 15422309 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15422228 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


First or second rounders either



So you are saying:

Andrew Thomas: Bust
Daniel Jones: Bust
Barkley: Bust
Toney: Bust
Xavier McKinney: Bust
Sterling Sheppard: Bust

Are you really this much of a douche?



They don't have to be busts, but outside Toney/Thomas (at the moment) they're not living up to their draft status.

And it's still early on Toney and Thomas remember.
RE: RE: Haven’t hit on  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/20/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15422309 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15422228 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


First or second rounders either



So you are saying:

Andrew Thomas: Bust
Daniel Jones: Bust
Barkley: Bust
Toney: Bust
Xavier McKinney: Bust
Sterling Sheppard: Bust

Are you really this much of a douche?


Just so we're clear, you fellate DG at every opportunity, but any criticism that you deem unfair is someone being a douche?

When you start being realistic, maybe others will as well.
RE: RE: Haven’t hit on  
Mike from SI : 10/20/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15422309 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15422228 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


First or second rounders either



So you are saying:

Andrew Thomas: Bust
Daniel Jones: Bust
Barkley: Bust
Toney: Bust
Xavier McKinney: Bust
Sterling Sheppard: Bust

Are you really this much of a douche?



Having a different opinion from you doesn't make someone a douche.
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