Joe Judge had me sold on his emphasis on being an educator and on hiring staff that is the same. It feels like for years giants young players don't get better year over year. I was hoping that would change with him based on the big game he talked. From last year it seems every single player on defense has gotten worse and on offense maybe Daniel Jones(Maybe?),Andrew Thomas and will Hernandez seem better. Our inability to get year to year improvement from young players has been plaguing us has much as anything else. I guess you could also argue that we just have lousy young players...
I might want to see it happen as well.
How can you make that statement right now?
How can you make that statement right now?
I misread your post. My mistake. But still, much of year 2 hasn't played out yet.
Team nor coaches where ready for start of season.
JJ game mgt has been poor.
So yes....a ton of fault.
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He's been here for one year + 6 games.
How can you make that statement right now?
I misread your post. My mistake. But still, much of year 2 hasn't played out yet.
I Agree but if the players get better in the second half of the season when the games are meaningless what good does that do? Last year we got better in the second half of the season and none of that carried over to this year...
Yeah, I thought getting Jackson would allow Graham to play man-to-man and allow the defense to play more aggressively. I guess they didn't realize that Tennessee let Jackson go because he isn't very good
We've had a few examples of players showing progression (too few, to be sure, AT is one), so why would they and not others? Were coaches only coaching certain guys up? Not to pick on Will Hernandez, but to use him as an example, all of the coaching in the world isn't going to turn a lumbering interior OL into a 2nd level blocking machine. We all know that Darnay Holmes had issues with holding and PI, so it would seem that would be straightforward enough to coach up, but maybe it simply exposed that he didn't have the quickness to keep up with slot WR's (total speculation on my part, just trying to make a point).
The more serious he tries to come across, the more of a joke he is. He's worse than McAdoo with that stupid haircut.
Fine. Give him 2 more years. What's the difference?
Great guys - say all the right things - care about being a good teammate - care about connection to the fanbase and the community - care about having or being a part of a positive locker room
BUT
Ultimately - they lose.
Same as Jones - Barkley - WIlliams - Bradberry - Martinez the whole lot of them. Seemingly great people..but they just don't win football game..which is what they get paid to do.
Which is why - at the end of the day - they all have to go.
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he is saddled with an incompetent GM, a marginal (at best) Offensive Coordinator and an incompetent Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Coach. You can't swim with these kinds of anchors.
Fine. Give him 2 more years. What's the difference?
The Giants have had 3 different head coaches since Coughlin with the same result. This franchise has too much dead weight. Maybe it's time to stop giving the illusion of progress by firing the head coach?
And when they do punch somebody in the mouth they get yelled at and told get the F*** to the locker room. lol
This fool must have stepped into a heaping pile of dog doo because he landed a million dollar job based on what exactly?
His main qualification for being the latest young, cutting edge, next gen, genius head coach, is that he's young. Being young isn't actuality enough.
The Rams get McVay, the 9ers get Shanny, the Browns get Stefan, the Chargers get Staley and we get this clown because the Giants don't want an actual young genius. They want the Giants version of the young coach, one who reminds them of a George Halas clone. Anybody at Jints Central who swooned and was swayed by this joker needs his keycard disabled.
Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Jets? Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Patriots? Bledsoe I guess? Who did Parcells have when he went to the COwboys?
All of these teams were really that much better at rebuilds than we were. The Patriots and cowboys maybe , but the Jets??
joe Judge is an oaf how is not a real coach. He basically went up to Coach Bellichek in New England and asked him what to do. Now there is Garrett tryin gto do some of the things he did in Dallas but wo the line and a good RB. He has no idea what to with this offense. Jones looks like he got worse too. He used to throw TDs.
i don't buy this "it's difficult to evaluate judge" stuff. it's the same thing daniel jones apologists say: "we still can't evaluate jones in year 3, he has a bad offensive line, there are injuries, he's just trying to do too much", etc etc.
judge hand-picked his DC. the OC was apparently recommended to him by Mara, but he signed off on him. it was his decision to waste a time out challenging an unchallengeable play. it is judge who is poor at managing the clock, using time outs, gutlessly punt on 4th down, settle for field goals, and kneel down to end halves.
it is his team that was ill-prepared to start the season, and that had looked markedly worse than the team that ended last season, through three games, before injuries started mounting.
i've seen enough of judge. he looks every bit as overmatched as shurmur and mcadoo did before him. judge has proven to be a bad gameday coach and the idea that he was brought in here to be a "prgram builder" seems like a joke to me. judge has never built a program anywhere. that would be matt rhule (who was the giants first choice, but carolina got to him first and made him an offer he couldn't refuse).
judge was mara's second choice, when time was running out. matt rhule has been a giant before, under coughlin, had HC experience and had built programs from the ground up. judge was recommended by belichick, who was a giant before. it's the same old veneration of anyone who has some giants connection driving mara's process, apparently even if those connections are tenuous and second-hand.
judge to this point has looked as bad as patricia with the lions, if not worse.
The Giants have had 3 different head coaches since Coughlin with the same result. This franchise has too much dead weight. Maybe it's time to stop giving the illusion of progress by firing the head coach?
No. I'm agreeing with you. Give him another 2 years. Doesn't matter.
Game 1 - instead of getting Barkley the ball in space, we run up the middle repeatedly on first and second down, and we play soft zone on every third and short, making Bridgewater look like Joe Montana. Dumb
Game 2 - in a goalline defense, we line up with one player on the right side who is wide of the tackle, giving up the easiest goalline TD I've ever seen. Dumb
Game 3 - with 3 minutes to go, needing 30 yards and a field goal to win, needing to milk the clock, we go into a hurry up offense to make sure there is plenty of time for the Falcons to drive for a field goal instead. Dumb
I gave up after that. We could have the best players in the world, but our game time decision making is terrible, and you can't win in the NFL if you don't play smart. These are deficiencies that can't be remedied.
Belichick might come to mind, but he wasn't bad in Cleveland and to say he faced some crazy extenuating circumstances that last year there would be an understatement. Coughlin won in Jacksonville despite the rough ending there. Reeves had one prior to NYG while in Denver and while he did lose in NY, 31-33 isn't exactly losing big like Judge is doing here.
Judge is going to go something like 11-21 or so. If he's lucky. You just don't see that guy win big at his next stop, if he even gets another chance. So if you're afraid that Judge will leave here and win elsewhere, it's doubtful this occurs if history is any indicator.
There's no *should be 3-3*. Bad teams play close games. Good teams win their share of blow outs. Who did we blow out? if you can squint and see a maybe 3-3 team, you are looking at a bad team.
Year one - we made some progress from the prior year, finishing 6-10. Defense was top 10, team played hard, game management mostly ok. The offense was crap.
Year two - off to a terrible start. Blew 2 games they could have easily won. Some positive signs on offense in some games, defense has been atrocious. No pass rush, no pressure, look soft. Game management questionable at times. Give the guy a chance to turn things around, let the season play out. We can make a better, less impulsive assessment at that point. I mean who cares what the dude says at press conferences? It’s about wins and losses. Things look bad, but let them play the games; give the guy a reasonable shot at it.
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Choking away Atlanta and Washington were terrible blows to Joe Judge resume
There's no *should be 3-3*. Bad teams play close games. Good teams win their share of blow outs. Who did we blow out? if you can squint and see a maybe 3-3 team, you are looking at a bad team.
This line of thought is how teams stay bad.
Just like last year when everyone thought that the team had improved by beating a bunch of terrible teams lead by terrible QBs (aside from the Seattle win).
This team is bad and will remain bad until actual change happens.
I disagree, bad teams find ways to lose close games. This is similar to last year, when many here were celebrating a season in which we had one signature win, with 5 against teams with a combined 28-50-2 record, ALL with backup QB's.
"We should be" is a mindset that allows losing to continue. It allows the powers that be to convince themselves and fans that we're on the right track, we just need X - a better HC, better luck, less injuries...Yes, Judge has made mistakes, but the underlying issues predate him.
I think Gates had that mentality. It's really a shame what happened to him.
He's so lucky Jones didn't get hurt again.
Year one - we made some progress from the prior year, finishing 6-10. Defense was top 10, team played hard, game management mostly ok. The offense was crap.
Did we make progress? I know I'm beating the same drum, but take a look at those 6 wins. One good win on the road at Seattle, but the other 5 are garbage, utter garbage. A combined 28-50-2 record, all against backup QB's. We, and more importantly, team management, convinced themselves that we had turned the corner and were on the right track.
An organization that is able to take a critical look at itself would have seen a flawed team with significant gaps, and would not have committed so much FA money. Worse yet, move even more money into 2022. Those are moves a bad organization makes.
Which young players improved last year?
I'm not saying Judge isn't culpable, but the failure to build talent and depth in the trenches would handicap the best coaches. I don't think he's the main issue, but I'm all for cleaning house of everyone.
I'm not saying Judge isn't culpable, but the failure to build talent and depth in the trenches would handicap the best coaches. I don't think he's the main issue, but I'm all for cleaning house of everyone.
I agree. Right now, I lean towards keeping Judge. Look, we knew there would be growing pains. Absent a complete 2017-type collapse, I'm fine with bringing him back for one more year. However, if there is a new GM from outside the org, and that GM is adamant about changing coaches, I think you have to allow him to make the change.
Hope you are well. Keep posting my friend
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Year one - we made some progress from the prior year, finishing 6-10. Defense was top 10, team played hard, game management mostly ok. The offense was crap.
Did we make progress? I know I'm beating the same drum, but take a look at those 6 wins. One good win on the road at Seattle, but the other 5 are garbage, utter garbage. A combined 28-50-2 record, all against backup QB's. We, and more importantly, team management, convinced themselves that we had turned the corner and were on the right track.
An organization that is able to take a critical look at itself would have seen a flawed team with significant gaps, and would not have committed so much FA money. Worse yet, move even more money into 2022. Those are moves a bad organization makes.
Are we talking about the organization or the coach? There is a distinction, although I realize Joe Judge has played a strong role in the most recent draft and spate of player acquisitions.
Yes, I do think last year was progress. We went from 3-13 to 6-10, and looked like a team that had a shot to keep growing.
Lile I said - things look bleak now, we are off to a very bad start. I’m not defending Judge; just saying give him a chance, let the season play out. Let’s see how he deals with adversity, then we can make a better call on him. I personally think he’s saddled with a deficient roster, and a below average QB. If he comes out of this, with another 6-10 season; draft the QB and give Judge time to build with better players.
I’m not ready to say Judge is the issue.
Are we talking about the organization or the coach? There is a distinction, although I realize Joe Judge has played a strong role in the most recent draft and spate of player acquisitions.
Yes, I do think last year was progress. We went from 3-13 to 6-10, and looked like a team that had a shot to keep growing.
Lile I said - things look bleak now, we are off to a very bad start. I’m not defending Judge; just saying give him a chance, let the season play out. Let’s see how he deals with adversity, then we can make a better call on him. I personally think he’s saddled with a deficient roster, and a below average QB. If he comes out of this, with another 6-10 season; draft the QB and give Judge time to build with better players.
I’m not ready to say Judge is the issue.
Oh, I agree, as I said above, I lean in favor of keeping Judge. But 3-13 was 4 years ago, and 3 years later we're 6-10? Given the level of comp most of those wins came against, I don't see that as progress.
My biggest issues are organizational. A team that could adequately self-scout would have looked at last year and said, "we have a ways to go". I'd have respected that much more than "hey, we're close, let's break the bank on free agents!" That mindset has to go, and nothing changes until it does.
For all my hyperbolic complaining this is really the most disappointing and confusing thing about this season: how can Judge and Co have taken a step back in this area coming off his rookie season as a HC when he was severely hampered by covid protocols? Your reasoning makes sense but would seem to indicate an even worse situation with upper management than we initially thought.
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Are we talking about the organization or the coach? There is a distinction, although I realize Joe Judge has played a strong role in the most recent draft and spate of player acquisitions.
Yes, I do think last year was progress. We went from 3-13 to 6-10, and looked like a team that had a shot to keep growing.
Lile I said - things look bleak now, we are off to a very bad start. I’m not defending Judge; just saying give him a chance, let the season play out. Let’s see how he deals with adversity, then we can make a better call on him. I personally think he’s saddled with a deficient roster, and a below average QB. If he comes out of this, with another 6-10 season; draft the QB and give Judge time to build with better players.
I’m not ready to say Judge is the issue.
Oh, I agree, as I said above, I lean in favor of keeping Judge. But 3-13 was 4 years ago, and 3 years later we're 6-10? Given the level of comp most of those wins came against, I don't see that as progress.
My biggest issues are organizational. A team that could adequately self-scout would have looked at last year and said, "we have a ways to go". I'd have respected that much more than "hey, we're close, let's break the bank on free agents!" That mindset has to go, and nothing changes until it does.
We’re on the same page. Draft the QB. Bolster the OL. Get some players who can rush the passer. There’s more that’s needed - but focus on those three things and we can be a competitive team again, one that is fun to watch.
One thing we do not know is how he is at evaluating talent which is critical moving forward. I believe he actually has had a lot of say in the roster. Evaluating coaching talent is another concern although Sale looks promising. His background is not where he can step in a fix the O or D himself so surrounding himself with outstanding coaches is paramount.
So the big question is has he done enough to have confidence that he will assess the talent and coaching and make appropriate changes. Debatable at this point imv.
One thing we do not know is how he is at evaluating talent which is critical moving forward. I believe he actually has had a lot of say in the roster. Evaluating coaching talent is another concern although Sale looks promising. His background is not where he can step in a fix the O or D himself so surrounding himself with outstanding coaches is paramount.
So the big question is has he done enough to have confidence that he will assess the talent and coaching and make appropriate changes. Debatable at this point imv.
Good take. Let’s see how the rest of the season plays out.
I’m expecting some personnel changes this week. Let’s see who’s in or out. Every game is now an audition for every player and every coach.
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he is saddled with an incompetent GM, a marginal (at best) Offensive Coordinator and an incompetent Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Coach. You can't swim with these kinds of anchors.
Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Jets? Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Patriots? Bledsoe I guess? Who did Parcells have when he went to the COwboys?
All of these teams were really that much better at rebuilds than we were. The Patriots and cowboys maybe , but the Jets??
joe Judge is an oaf how is not a real coach. He basically went up to Coach Bellichek in New England and asked him what to do. Now there is Garrett tryin gto do some of the things he did in Dallas but wo the line and a good RB. He has no idea what to with this offense. Jones looks like he got worse too. He used to throw TDs.
People have made up their mind on DJ who was expected to shine with a weak supporting cast, new HC, and Garrett.
Giants need an experienced HC not a former special teams coach who is trying to grow into the job.
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he is saddled with an incompetent GM, a marginal (at best) Offensive Coordinator and an incompetent Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Coach. You can't swim with these kinds of anchors.
Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Jets? Who did Coach Parcells have when he went to the Patriots? Bledsoe I guess? Who did Parcells have when he went to the COwboys?
All of these teams were really that much better at rebuilds than we were. The Patriots and cowboys maybe , but the Jets??
joe Judge is an oaf how is not a real coach. He basically went up to Coach Bellichek in New England and asked him what to do. Now there is Garrett tryin gto do some of the things he did in Dallas but wo the line and a good RB. He has no idea what to with this offense. Jones looks like he got worse too. He used to throw TDs.
People have made up their mind on DJ who was expected to shine with a weak supporting cast, new HC, and Garrett.
Giants need an experienced HC not a former special teams coach who is trying to grow into the job.
I’m expecting some personnel changes this week. Let’s see who’s in or out. Every game is now an audition for every player and every coach.
I legit think they go 2-15 or even 1-16 lol.
Some people just have a hard time admitting the coaches and players on their favorite team are just downright terrible.
I don’t fault Mara for taking a swing on Judge, but you swing and you miss and you gotta take another swing. And you keep swinging until you hit a home run. Or in Mara’s case, start with the basics and keep swinging until you make contact with the ball.
Batter up!
Year one - we made some progress from the prior year, finishing 6-10. Defense was top 10, team played hard, game management mostly ok. The offense was crap.
Year two - off to a terrible start. Blew 2 games they could have easily won. Some positive signs on offense in some games, defense has been atrocious. No pass rush, no pressure, look soft. Game management questionable at times. Give the guy a chance to turn things around, let the season play out. We can make a better, less impulsive assessment at that point. I mean who cares what the dude says at press conferences? It’s about wins and losses. Things look bad, but let them play the games; give the guy a reasonable shot at it.
Of course not. Are you new here?
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Where on this team do you see that mentality? Has a little to do with talent. This is football. No one on this team has bought into Joe Judge. All they are doing is watching and waiting for the next guy to show up at this point. Blow this thing up please.
I think Gates had that mentality. It's really a shame what happened to him.
Very little of this team resembles what we were told. Don’t see aggressive, don’t see attack , or solid hitting by blockers, hard hitting tackles, or anything resembling punching in the mouth; quite the opposite.
They seem more finesse, and soft on both sides of the ball.
I do see conservative yet disjointed O, and C2by a Dthat lacks the ER to play that style: they ‘bend’ AND ‘break’.
I would have thought backups would play tough, even if ineffective, to prove they deserve to be playing, but it’s like most of them already have the big contract and make business decisions instead.
That’s coaching, or lack thereof..