and his windup + weaker arm combo just makes everything he does seem super slow. He's also not really a good runner so there really isn't anything to account for with him.
I see some similarities with Jones, unfortunately, though I like Jones' skillset more.
but I don't think Tua looked that bad. And buyer beware, who knows what's going to come out of this Watson mess. I would imagine they'd include Tua in the trade, then what happens if Watson is suspended for a year or more?
Jones is an average to slightly above average QB at best… he is never going to be in the discussion as an elite QB. Watson is an elite QB. Watson, Golladay, Toney, Barkley and Engram would be downright filthy.
Jones is an average to slightly above average QB at best… he is never going to be in the discussion as an elite QB. Watson is an elite QB. Watson, Golladay, Toney, Barkley and Engram would be downright filthy.
No that's not going to work because we *still have to evaluate Jones*. Until that's done we are robots not permitted to consider any alternatives.
actually they sound a lot like Giants fans on Jones. I've also never been that impressed with Tua, but granted I don't watch him much so I just go by what I hear from Dolphins fans. Seems like they think Tua is ok, but will never be more than an average QB and certainly not elite. Big mistake not taking Herbert.
you aren't tired of hearing your own voice yet are you?
same thing on every single thread, like clockwork.
Watson before the allegations was definitely worth it. Now? Who knows, too much risk sending that package of picks for him. I also don't care to root for the guy.
Jones is an average to slightly above average QB at best… he is never going to be in the discussion as an elite QB. Watson is an elite QB. Watson, Golladay, Toney, Barkley and Engram would be downright filthy.
Agree! We don’t have the resources and would likely have to trade a couple of those players to get in the discussion. Keep Thomas and KT. Trade EE And anyone else you can to make it. The problem is when you lose like we do, very few players have much value. It’s a dream and not gonna happen. Fun to think about though
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
separate statements. Trading for Watson is a future move as I’m under the assumption he will still face some sort of suspension. So if that happens it makes sense to treat this year as a wash and let the regime move forward with the better QB.
Why let your GM and HC trade for Watson and then fire them? The flip side is, do nothing, see how the season plays out with their drafted guy in Tua and clean house if they stink.
separate statements. Trading for Watson is a future move as I’m under the assumption he will still face some sort of suspension. So if that happens it makes sense to treat this year as a wash and let the regime move forward with the better QB.
Why let your GM and HC trade for Watson and then fire them? The flip side is, do nothing, see how the season plays out with their drafted guy in Tua and clean house if they stink.
I don't look at it as letting your GM and HC trade for Watson. I look at it as ownership wants him and if they don't feel Flores and his staff are the answer then they move on. I don't think ownership will be like, "Man, we fuckin suck but lets give this staff another year because we have Watson." Getting a new regime in here to start fresh with Watson is 100% an option to me as is Flores and his staff staying if they earn it. I don't think Watson factors in one way or another. In fact, if you move on there will be people that want to have a QB like Watson and no state income tax. It's an appealing job. But, as I said, I think both situations are legit possibilities.
The only way he gets traded is if there are assurances he will be playing. There is a lot of stuff hanging over him. No team is giving up capital for large question marks, especially at the QB spot
By the Dolphins to gauge fan/public reaction. Could also be to gauge league response. If there was a sense he would be suspended 10 games or something like that, why not make the trade now and have him serve the games in a lost season and get him in the offseason program and ready to go next year?
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
well you are one of a very few but then again you just say the same thing, each and everyday.
RE: RE: RE: Tua to Washington is rumored to be part
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
well you are one of a very few but then again you just say the same thing, each and everyday.
You think very few people would take Tua over Jones? Especially after Jones' league-worst performance against the Rams?
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
In the last 2 years...Tua has 14 TD passes in 12 starts, Jones has 15 TD passes in 19 starts (really 20 but we won't count Dallas). Yep...that Tua kid really sucks!
and Denver are apparently not pursuing a trade for Tua. Link - ( New Window )
Having said four months ago that Miami is the best fit Watson, I heard recently somewhere that Watson's preference is to go to Denver.
Tua in his first two seasons made a lot of short throws, the long ball threat was largely absent. If I were the Texans, I would be wanting the draft picks to find a QB, if not next year, then the year after. Tua could be a placeholder for the next eighteen months, but probably not beyond.
So AFC West could have Mahomes, Herbert and Watson.
John McClain is pretty dialed in with the Texans. So he's a good source...
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
Man, how many posters here told me Tua was destined for greatness. So many Bama players hit their ceiling in college, you've got to be a tough sumbitch to succeed in the NFL. And I just don't see that with Tua, even at Bama. You hit him and he quickly is ineffective.
this is the perfect example of the grass is greener
some of you fellating Tua have never watched him. The book is certainly not closed on Tua, as this is his second year. But he looks really bad. Misses WRs, way too scared to take chances. At this point, he is not an upgrade on Jones by any stretch of the imagination. Like Giants fans, Dolphins fans are now pissed they didn't take Herbert. (Those same fans were also exclaiming "Tank for Tua" and would have been pissed if they drafted Herbert over Tua)
forego that easy 1st down run only to trow it way over the receivers head was hard to watch. No one within 5 yards of him, pick up the 1st and go OOB, or actually make a really easy throw, neither happened. That loss to the Jags was 100% on him.
Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
are they just kinda laying low on his legal/moral issues just hoping it all blows over and then next year just kinda reappearing as if nothing happened?
Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Tua is in a very similar situation as Jones. Questionable play-calling/coaching, plus their OL is atrocious despite a ton of resources expended there. Waddle can't get down the field. So, I agree it is hard to tell how much is Tua and how much is the situation. I believe if the Giants move on from Jones, he will go on to be successful elsewhere if he gets with the right organization. Tua may be the same.
That said, Jones showed more his rookie year (sans the fumbling issue) than Tua has thus far.
players especially QB's when they're playing on professional minor teams vs college kids.
I saw most of Miami vs Jacksonville and IMO Lawrence is in a completely different class than Tua or Daniel Jones.
IMO Lawrence is rookie on a bad team but he has all of the elite QB instincts and skills that can't be taught. That doesn't mean playing on that team for that coach and owner might not get it beat it out of him by the rest of the league.
But IMO if Lawrence gets an average team - both sides of the ball - around him and a professional coach he's going to be a playoff QB. IMO a few healthy years down the road he'll be worth 2-4 wins maybe more by himself. I don't think that will ever be the case for Tua or Jones.
RE: I've said a bunch of times it's tough to evaluate
players especially QB's when they're playing on professional minor teams vs college kids.
I saw most of Miami vs Jacksonville and IMO Lawrence is in a completely different class than Tua or Daniel Jones.
IMO Lawrence is rookie on a bad team but he has all of the elite QB instincts and skills that can't be taught. That doesn't mean playing on that team for that coach and owner might not get it beat it out of him by the rest of the league.
But IMO if Lawrence gets an average team - both sides of the ball - around him and a professional coach he's going to be a playoff QB. IMO a few healthy years down the road he'll be worth 2-4 wins maybe more by himself. I don't think that will ever be the case for Tua or Jones.
I agree with all of this. Lawrence looks like hte real deal to me, Hebert too. Tua, Jones, and others look like low level starters/high level backup type guys
Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Tua is in a very similar situation as Jones. Questionable play-calling/coaching, plus their OL is atrocious despite a ton of resources expended there. Waddle can't get down the field. So, I agree it is hard to tell how much is Tua and how much is the situation. I believe if the Giants move on from Jones, he will go on to be successful elsewhere if he gets with the right organization. Tua may be the same.
That said, Jones showed more his rookie year (sans the fumbling issue) than Tua has thus far.
No argument there, Tua has struggled a bit. He has had no running game though. For all we complain about our rushing attack, we averaged a half a yard more per carry than Miami.
Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Based on his size and his arm, the only way I see Tua succeeding is if someone thinks they can mold him to be a left-handed Brees. And re-build him to have the intel QB processing chip.
The only coach I can see potentially pulling that off is Sean Payton. Otherwise, I don't think Tua will ever live up to his draft status...
Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Based on his size and his arm, the only way I see Tua succeeding is if someone thinks they can mold him to be a left-handed Brees. And re-build him to have the intel QB processing chip.
The only coach I can see potentially pulling that off is Sean Payton. Otherwise, I don't think Tua will ever live up to his draft status...
Brees was good in SD too. Payton is a terrific offensive coach, but I think there are other coaches that can build an offense around a Brees-like QB. Not saying Tua will be nearly as good, but maybe good enough. I do agree that Brees is a good comp.
the lack of objectivity among some of you is stunning
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
RE: the lack of objectivity among some of you is stunning
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
RE: RE: the lack of objectivity among some of you is stunning
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
I'm just saying I'd give him a shot. There are plenty of Fins fans who don't want him traded. He has displayed an elite skill in the past. I wish we were in on him
RE: RE: RE: the lack of objectivity among some of you is stunning
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
I'm just saying I'd give him a shot. There are plenty of Fins fans who don't want him traded. He has displayed an elite skill in the past. I wish we were in on him
I agree on giving him a shot. IMO Jones had shown more by the same points in their career. Honestly, I think both will have similar careers. Like Tannehill/Darnold, I think both will move on to other teams with better run organizations (like the Steelers) and have some success. Jones is more likely to be gone at this point IMO, because he is a year later into his career and his rookie contract will be up sooner.
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Tua played Jax the worst team in football and lost. Jones played a damn good D in the Rams. Objectivity includes nore than just stats
Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Tua played Jax the worst team in football and lost. Jones played a damn good D in the Rams. Objectivity includes nore than just stats
Of course. I agree. But it's an important data point.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
In theory you're on to something, but Watson got his new contract before these allegations came out.
However, you do have a point with things like Gruden who sent some private, but obviously problematic emails and the guy is fired from his job, unlikely to ever work in the NFL or related field again, removed from the Buccaneers ring of honor, yet the league is littered with players who committed actual rapes, assaults, and worse.
OJ Simpson is still in the NFL HOF and Bills Ring of Honor or whatever they call it. OJ is literally a murderer.
Warren Sapp is credibly accused of domestic assault, an actual physical violent act, and is still in the Bucs ring of honor.
selective moral outrage sets a terrible precedent. Don't say mean things, but actual violence is fine.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
In theory you're on to something, but Watson got his new contract before these allegations came out.
However, you do have a point with things like Gruden who sent some private, but obviously problematic emails and the guy is fired from his job, unlikely to ever work in the NFL or related field again, removed from the Buccaneers ring of honor, yet the league is littered with players who committed actual rapes, assaults, and worse.
OJ Simpson is still in the NFL HOF and Bills Ring of Honor or whatever they call it. OJ is literally a murderer.
Warren Sapp is credibly accused of domestic assault, an actual physical violent act, and is still in the Bucs ring of honor.
selective moral outrage sets a terrible precedent. Don't say mean things, but actual violence is fine.
PJ - you're right, there is no rhyme or reason to how these things work out.
Gruden obviously needed to be let go because the team would have just quit/turned on him most likely. He offended everyone he would walk by in the building on his way to the office. Not good in that work environment beyond the troublesome things he wrote.
I can only assume in terms of Simpson, the Bills look at him in terms of his playing days. His after football life has zero bearing on being in the ring. Just like he's still in the HOF (I think?).
Sapp - only accused I assume? Perhaps the Bucs would follow their Gruden response if Sapp was actually deemed guilty. That's my guess.
I hear what you're saying but these different standards for different people has existed forever.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
Gotta love comments like this. Gruden quit (possibly forced) because of racist and homophobic emails...not "mean." He has the only openly gay player in the NFL on his, mostly afro-American team. Surely, you can see the problem?
As for Watson, he got his extension before this info was made public, and still hasn't been charged with a crime.
Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
Gotta love comments like this. Gruden quit (possibly forced) because of racist and homophobic emails...not "mean." He has the only openly gay player in the NFL on his, mostly afro-American team. Surely, you can see the problem?
As for Watson, he got his extension before this info was made public, and still hasn't been charged with a crime.
Probably just taking advantage of the opportunity to get Watson at a little bit of a discount.
he is a bona fide franchise QB, and if you can get him at a discount, why wouldn't you try?
* assuming the legal issues are resolved/resolvable
This would be a longterm move. Unclear on whether he'd be suspended by the league or on the exempt list, so he may not impact 2021 much for them.
Tua reminds me of Matt Leinart. Scans the field but unwilling or unable to pull the trigger. Always happy with the checkdowns in the flats.
I see some similarities with Jones, unfortunately, though I like Jones' skillset more.
I would never make the deal without a lot of intel and guidance from the NFL FO. And, if possible, from Watson's lawyers.
How does trading for Watson save their season?
My subject line got screwed up becuase I used quotes.
It was supposed to read, Does Anyone Remember "Tank for Tua"?
Tua always felt like a bust waiting to happen, i'm just surprised it has more to do with his play than it does his health.
Tua always felt like a bust waiting to happen, i'm just surprised it has more to do with his play than it does his health.
Does it? I don't think that has any effect.
Yes
They have the Niners first round pick from the Lance deal.
Tua has done better than Hurts.
Tua to Washington
Hou gets ?
Tua to Washington
Hou gets ?
A boatload of draft picks?
He showed uncanny accuracy in college. That's his big trait. Hard to get a read on him in the NFL with the injuries.
Quote:
but getting him virtually guarantees the regime stays mostly in tact after this year.
Tua always felt like a bust waiting to happen, i'm just surprised it has more to do with his play than it does his health.
Does it? I don't think that has any effect.
If they finish 3-14 firing everyone isn't on the table?
No that's not going to work because we *still have to evaluate Jones*. Until that's done we are robots not permitted to consider any alternatives.
Watson before the allegations was definitely worth it. Now? Who knows, too much risk sending that package of picks for him. I also don't care to root for the guy.
Agree! We don’t have the resources and would likely have to trade a couple of those players to get in the discussion. Keep Thomas and KT. Trade EE And anyone else you can to make it. The problem is when you lose like we do, very few players have much value. It’s a dream and not gonna happen. Fun to think about though
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
Tua to Washington
Hou gets ?
I think Washington goes all in on Aaron Rodgers.
Tua to Washington
Hou gets ?
Where did you see that?
Quote:
In comment 15423051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but getting him virtually guarantees the regime stays mostly in tact after this year.
Tua always felt like a bust waiting to happen, i'm just surprised it has more to do with his play than it does his health.
Does it? I don't think that has any effect.
If they finish 3-14 firing everyone isn't on the table?
Huh? I'm so confused. You said getting Watson means no changes will be and then you respond by saying people should be fired.
Great. That will lower the overall QB play in the NFCE even more...
Quote:
Of the deal. Don't know if it's real but it's out there. I got an alert about it and it's on Twitter for whatever that's worth.
Great. That will lower the overall QB play in the NFCE even more...
Eh.. Heineke isn't very good.
The_Boss : 4:43 pm : link : reply
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Where exactly? Asking for a friend.
Why let your GM and HC trade for Watson and then fire them? The flip side is, do nothing, see how the season plays out with their drafted guy in Tua and clean house if they stink.
Why let your GM and HC trade for Watson and then fire them? The flip side is, do nothing, see how the season plays out with their drafted guy in Tua and clean house if they stink.
I don't look at it as letting your GM and HC trade for Watson. I look at it as ownership wants him and if they don't feel Flores and his staff are the answer then they move on. I don't think ownership will be like, "Man, we fuckin suck but lets give this staff another year because we have Watson." Getting a new regime in here to start fresh with Watson is 100% an option to me as is Flores and his staff staying if they earn it. I don't think Watson factors in one way or another. In fact, if you move on there will be people that want to have a QB like Watson and no state income tax. It's an appealing job. But, as I said, I think both situations are legit possibilities.
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Lots of handjob parlors in South Florida
The_Boss : 4:43 pm : link : reply
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Where exactly? Asking for a friend.
I actually laughed out loud.
Watson has tremendous legal issues and the Dolphins have defensive problems as bad if not worse than the Giants and terrible line.
Link - ( New Window )
All conjecture but some other possibilities.
They want to try and compete in next couple seasons.
John McClain is pretty dialed in with the Texans. So he's a good source...
Quote:
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
well you are one of a very few but then again you just say the same thing, each and everyday.
Quote:
In comment 15423098 Producer said:
Quote:
Of the deal. Don't know if it's real but it's out there. I got an alert about it and it's on Twitter for whatever that's worth.
Great. That will lower the overall QB play in the NFCE even more...
Eh.. Heineke isn't very good.
Heinicke has buzz, though. He can make plays. Tua doesn't seem to have that capability at this point.
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and Denver are apparently not pursuing a trade for Tua. Link - ( New Window )
John McClain is pretty dialed in with the Texans. So he's a good source...
Odd that the Giants are nevwr mentioned in any of these QB rumors.
Quote:
In comment 15423101 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15423098 Producer said:
Quote:
Of the deal. Don't know if it's real but it's out there. I got an alert about it and it's on Twitter for whatever that's worth.
Great. That will lower the overall QB play in the NFCE even more...
Eh.. Heineke isn't very good.
Heinicke has buzz, though. He can make plays. Tua doesn't seem to have that capability at this point.
He was fairly decent last Sunday.
Quote:
In comment 15423089 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
is not an NFL QB. He's not physically built to hold up, and his speed in running an offense doesn't fit given need to deploy a range of tight window throws and vertical passing game.
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
I'd take a chance on Tua over Jones. But I agree he may not make it as a starter.
well you are one of a very few but then again you just say the same thing, each and everyday.
You think very few people would take Tua over Jones? Especially after Jones' league-worst performance against the Rams?
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
In the last 2 years...Tua has 14 TD passes in 12 starts, Jones has 15 TD passes in 19 starts (really 20 but we won't count Dallas). Yep...that Tua kid really sucks!
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and Denver are apparently not pursuing a trade for Tua. Link - ( New Window )
Having said four months ago that Miami is the best fit Watson, I heard recently somewhere that Watson's preference is to go to Denver.
Tua in his first two seasons made a lot of short throws, the long ball threat was largely absent. If I were the Texans, I would be wanting the draft picks to find a QB, if not next year, then the year after. Tua could be a placeholder for the next eighteen months, but probably not beyond.
So AFC West could have Mahomes, Herbert and Watson.
John McClain is pretty dialed in with the Texans. So he's a good source...
Jones may not be much more than average, but he's definitely suited to the NFL style of play based on his skills and arm strength.
Man, how many posters here told me Tua was destined for greatness. So many Bama players hit their ceiling in college, you've got to be a tough sumbitch to succeed in the NFL. And I just don't see that with Tua, even at Bama. You hit him and he quickly is ineffective.
Agreed...
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I don't see anything really good with Tua. He looks like he might be able to be a game manager at best.
He showed uncanny accuracy in college. That's his big trait. Hard to get a read on him in the NFL with the injuries.
Really.
Tua is in a very similar situation as Jones. Questionable play-calling/coaching, plus their OL is atrocious despite a ton of resources expended there. Waddle can't get down the field. So, I agree it is hard to tell how much is Tua and how much is the situation. I believe if the Giants move on from Jones, he will go on to be successful elsewhere if he gets with the right organization. Tua may be the same.
That said, Jones showed more his rookie year (sans the fumbling issue) than Tua has thus far.
I saw most of Miami vs Jacksonville and IMO Lawrence is in a completely different class than Tua or Daniel Jones.
IMO Lawrence is rookie on a bad team but he has all of the elite QB instincts and skills that can't be taught. That doesn't mean playing on that team for that coach and owner might not get it beat it out of him by the rest of the league.
But IMO if Lawrence gets an average team - both sides of the ball - around him and a professional coach he's going to be a playoff QB. IMO a few healthy years down the road he'll be worth 2-4 wins maybe more by himself. I don't think that will ever be the case for Tua or Jones.
I saw most of Miami vs Jacksonville and IMO Lawrence is in a completely different class than Tua or Daniel Jones.
IMO Lawrence is rookie on a bad team but he has all of the elite QB instincts and skills that can't be taught. That doesn't mean playing on that team for that coach and owner might not get it beat it out of him by the rest of the league.
But IMO if Lawrence gets an average team - both sides of the ball - around him and a professional coach he's going to be a playoff QB. IMO a few healthy years down the road he'll be worth 2-4 wins maybe more by himself. I don't think that will ever be the case for Tua or Jones.
I agree with all of this. Lawrence looks like hte real deal to me, Hebert too. Tua, Jones, and others look like low level starters/high level backup type guys
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Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Tua is in a very similar situation as Jones. Questionable play-calling/coaching, plus their OL is atrocious despite a ton of resources expended there. Waddle can't get down the field. So, I agree it is hard to tell how much is Tua and how much is the situation. I believe if the Giants move on from Jones, he will go on to be successful elsewhere if he gets with the right organization. Tua may be the same.
That said, Jones showed more his rookie year (sans the fumbling issue) than Tua has thus far.
No argument there, Tua has struggled a bit. He has had no running game though. For all we complain about our rushing attack, we averaged a half a yard more per carry than Miami.
Based on his size and his arm, the only way I see Tua succeeding is if someone thinks they can mold him to be a left-handed Brees. And re-build him to have the intel QB processing chip.
The only coach I can see potentially pulling that off is Sean Payton. Otherwise, I don't think Tua will ever live up to his draft status...
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Maybe Tua is too, but his ceiling is much higher. How many here have given up on Tua after 11 starts, but say we can't properly evaluate Jones until he has 30?
Based on his size and his arm, the only way I see Tua succeeding is if someone thinks they can mold him to be a left-handed Brees. And re-build him to have the intel QB processing chip.
The only coach I can see potentially pulling that off is Sean Payton. Otherwise, I don't think Tua will ever live up to his draft status...
Brees was good in SD too. Payton is a terrific offensive coach, but I think there are other coaches that can build an offense around a Brees-like QB. Not saying Tua will be nearly as good, but maybe good enough. I do agree that Brees is a good comp.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
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Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
I'm just saying I'd give him a shot. There are plenty of Fins fans who don't want him traded. He has displayed an elite skill in the past. I wish we were in on him
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In comment 15423636 Producer said:
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Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Objectively speaking, the Jags suck. And the Dolphins still lost. If the Giants lost to arguably the worst team in football, giving them their first win of the season, and people came on here touting how great Jones played, you would mock them.
By no means do I think the book is closed on Tua or Jones. I don't think either has been put in the best situation. I live in Dolphins country. While the organization may feel differently, the diehards I know who watch every game have given up on Tua.
I'm just saying I'd give him a shot. There are plenty of Fins fans who don't want him traded. He has displayed an elite skill in the past. I wish we were in on him
I agree on giving him a shot. IMO Jones had shown more by the same points in their career. Honestly, I think both will have similar careers. Like Tannehill/Darnold, I think both will move on to other teams with better run organizations (like the Steelers) and have some success. Jones is more likely to be gone at this point IMO, because he is a year later into his career and his rookie contract will be up sooner.
If no, is it because (1) they truly believe in Jones or (2) they don't want to deal with any public outcry?
If no, is it because (1) they truly believe in Jones or (2) they don't want to deal with any public outcry?
2.
I highly doubt Watson is an option here.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Tua played Jax the worst team in football and lost. Jones played a damn good D in the Rams. Objectivity includes nore than just stats
If no, is it because (1) they truly believe in Jones or (2) they don't want to deal with any public outcry?
The Leonard Williams type deal is more their alley.
Negotiating for Watson seems a bit out of their comfort zone, if not league...
If not, do we know when he can play?
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Tua was good on Sunday. I focused mainly on the first half, and he was quite sharp. His line was, 33/47 329 2 TDs 1 INT.
It was good enough for PFF to give him an 82.6 passing grade. Not bad from a first game back from injury.
If Jones had that game we would have people here calling him a top-5 QB. It seems most of you want to grade Jones on a curve up, and everyone else on a curve down, making objective discussion impossible.
I'm certainly not saying Tua is great or is sure to be a star. But he was good on Sunday and Jones had one of the worst passing games by a QB all season. I would trade Jones straight up for Tua, no problem. At least Tua displayed one elite skill in his life, accuracy in college. Whereas Jones has displayed none. And I would certainly take Tua over Heineke, Trubisky, Mariota, Brisset, Tyrod Taylor and all the other usual suspects.
Tua played Jax the worst team in football and lost. Jones played a damn good D in the Rams. Objectivity includes nore than just stats
Of course. I agree. But it's an important data point.
If no, is it because (1) they truly believe in Jones or (2) they don't want to deal with any public outcry?
Mara Inc would want no part of the Watson drama. I think we all understand it, even if it might not be our choice.
What new contract?
I'm not kidding when I say Big Ben would be serving time at Rikers right now if we drafted him in '04.
In theory you're on to something, but Watson got his new contract before these allegations came out.
However, you do have a point with things like Gruden who sent some private, but obviously problematic emails and the guy is fired from his job, unlikely to ever work in the NFL or related field again, removed from the Buccaneers ring of honor, yet the league is littered with players who committed actual rapes, assaults, and worse.
OJ Simpson is still in the NFL HOF and Bills Ring of Honor or whatever they call it. OJ is literally a murderer.
Warren Sapp is credibly accused of domestic assault, an actual physical violent act, and is still in the Bucs ring of honor.
selective moral outrage sets a terrible precedent. Don't say mean things, but actual violence is fine.
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Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
In theory you're on to something, but Watson got his new contract before these allegations came out.
However, you do have a point with things like Gruden who sent some private, but obviously problematic emails and the guy is fired from his job, unlikely to ever work in the NFL or related field again, removed from the Buccaneers ring of honor, yet the league is littered with players who committed actual rapes, assaults, and worse.
OJ Simpson is still in the NFL HOF and Bills Ring of Honor or whatever they call it. OJ is literally a murderer.
Warren Sapp is credibly accused of domestic assault, an actual physical violent act, and is still in the Bucs ring of honor.
selective moral outrage sets a terrible precedent. Don't say mean things, but actual violence is fine.
PJ - you're right, there is no rhyme or reason to how these things work out.
Gruden obviously needed to be let go because the team would have just quit/turned on him most likely. He offended everyone he would walk by in the building on his way to the office. Not good in that work environment beyond the troublesome things he wrote.
I can only assume in terms of Simpson, the Bills look at him in terms of his playing days. His after football life has zero bearing on being in the ring. Just like he's still in the HOF (I think?).
Sapp - only accused I assume? Perhaps the Bucs would follow their Gruden response if Sapp was actually deemed guilty. That's my guess.
I hear what you're saying but these different standards for different people has existed forever.
Gotta love comments like this. Gruden quit (possibly forced) because of racist and homophobic emails...not "mean." He has the only openly gay player in the NFL on his, mostly afro-American team. Surely, you can see the problem?
As for Watson, he got his extension before this info was made public, and still hasn't been charged with a crime.
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Send mean emails and your career is over. 22 women accuse you of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and you get a new contract. Can't make this stuff up.
Gotta love comments like this. Gruden quit (possibly forced) because of racist and homophobic emails...not "mean." He has the only openly gay player in the NFL on his, mostly afro-American team. Surely, you can see the problem?
As for Watson, he got his extension before this info was made public, and still hasn't been charged with a crime.
There's no reasoning with culture warriors.