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What do we actually *know* about Judge’s roster input?

trueblueinpw : 10/21/2021 7:50 am
I see a lot of people eluding to Joe Judge’s ability to evaluate talent and influence the roster. There was a lot of speculation here this summer about how Judge might be influencing the UFAs signed and the draft picks made and even the idea of trading down. But what do we actually *know* about personnel that Judge influenced to be on the team?

As an example, did Judge say “go get A-Jax” in the UFA market or “we really need a quick gadget guy like KT”? I assume Judge and his coaching staff make the cuts coming out of camp and set the game day roster. But I’m not sure that’s what people are talking about when they say that Judge is influencing personnel. (Maybe it is, but are there any NFL head coaches that don’t have roster authority)?

Have there been any articles or quotes from people inside the Giants or organization which credit Joe Judge with finding some talent or in some other way “influencing the roster”? Do we know if Joe Judge has any “Judge guys” on this roster that Joe Judge fought to get on this team?

I wonder because keeping Sam Beal makes no sense at all  
JohnB : 10/21/2021 8:08 am : link
Highly doubt  
Giants73 : 10/21/2021 8:08 am : link
Anyone else wanted Nate Ebner. Also, we heard about Saban influencing the Giants on the McKinney pick. As well as we heard each of the signees this off season having substantially long meetings with Judge prior to them getting signed. Wouldn’t make much sense if he has no say.
Ebner and Gillaspia are Judge guys  
Rick in Dallas : 10/21/2021 8:11 am : link
I absolutely believe Judge had major input of this past year's draft and free agency period.
I think he totally thought the OL was good to go and play the kids as DG said.
RE: I wonder because keeping Sam Beal makes no sense at all  
Angel Eyes : 10/21/2021 8:12 am : link
In comment 15423494 JohnB said:

Same with Evan Engram.
It does appear he wanted Ojulari  
Tuckrule : 10/21/2021 8:21 am : link
And DG was against that pick. Just reading the body language when the pick was made DG wanted an offensive lineman but we took a guy with Georgia connections. What a steal to get him in round 2!
It is my understanding that they have used a  
Section331 : 10/21/2021 8:47 am : link
committee approach since Judge was hired. Judge certainly has input, likely a significant amount. Even so, he isn't the one negotiating the contracts. As I've said before, I didn't have a problem with taking a flyer on a guy like Adoree, I did have a problem committing $25M guaranteed, and $39M over 3 years.

And yes, I understand that other teams like Philly may have been poking around, but the one thing I liked about DG's track record at CAR was that he put a value on a player and didn't waver. He seems to have abandoned that completely here.
Regardless of HC's input on draft or talent acquisution.  
chuckydee9 : 10/21/2021 8:50 am : link
Its still GM's job to get the talent.. to not overpay.. A HC has many more responsibilities than to study 250+ players every year for the draft.. Why do we have a GM collecting over a Million per year if all he does is bring in players who the HC wants.. The talent level or lack of is the responsibility of the GM not the coach.. underdevelopment of the talent is on the coaches though..
ryanmkeane : 10/21/2021 8:51 am : link
Toney seems like a guy that Judge might have had some input on. No way DG takes Toney if he's the only one calling the shots.
Ebner is a Joe Judge guy. Kelvin Benjamin wasn't.  
Jimmy Googs : 10/21/2021 8:57 am : link
And everybody else we don't know as confirmed by the above posts...
We honestly have no idea  
Mike from Ohio : 10/21/2021 8:58 am : link
They say it is collaborative, and we will likely not know anything more than that.

I'm sure if Judge goes to the mat for a guy like Ebner DG will get him. I'm sure if DG has a conviction on a guy in the draft he will take him. I don't think some players are DG guys and some are Judge guys. I think it is more complicated than that.
Like Recent Drafts  
Jeffrey : 10/21/2021 9:00 am : link
the Giants took a flier on the potential of a guy who has yet to prove he is up to the task. A young special teams coach on a team dominated by the head coach--should have been red flags everywhere! Judge talks a good game but his tough guy, disciplined approach has yet to prove effective with this team that is neither tough, nor disciplined.
They say collaborative  
Andrew in Austin : 10/21/2021 9:31 am : link
I'm sure both JJ & DG get input into it. They probably correctly noted last year that they needed a better corner opposite JB. DG went and got Adoree and so on and so forth.

Who knew nearly every player would take a step back minus AT & DJ? Frankly we don't know if either of those guys have taken a large enough step forward.

On paper, the offseason & draft moves looked at least to yield a better team than last year - that clearly isn't the case. Even the coaches are panicking at this point and their performance is worse than last year.

They can blame injuries, but they still sucked from the 1st game of the season.
RE: ...  
Section331 : 10/21/2021 9:42 am : link
In comment 15423533 ryanmkeane said:
Toney seems like a guy that Judge might have had some input on. No way DG takes Toney if he's the only one calling the shots.

That's probably fair. I'm not so sure that Ojulari was necessarily a JJ pick, DG loves his Georgia guys too.
Gettleman used 3 picks to take one GA  
arniefez : 10/21/2021 9:57 am : link
DB when Shurmur was the HC. So the GA stuff isn't just Judge.
moaltch : 10/21/2021 10:40 am : link
has a clue as to what goes on in the building. Anything here is pure speculation, nothing more. Its never been revealed who wanted whom.
Judge favors certain things  
ghost718 : 10/21/2021 10:46 am : link
Ex Patriot,Georgia,Alabama,corner backs

You can see it not only in the draft and free agency,but in the moves that are made throughout the week.

My guess is he views himself as someone who should be GM and coach,but that's just my opinion.

IF it is collaborative  
Dave on the UWS : 10/21/2021 11:52 am : link
than the "team" is relying on the information provided by the Player Personnel dept. - headed by Chris Mara! And they've done a bang up job the last 10 years haven't they.
We don't know  
Gman11 : 10/21/2021 12:15 pm : link
but if any GM out there doesn't get input from his head coach then he's an idiot.
The coaches have a significant input related to pro players  
SLIM_ : 10/21/2021 12:41 pm : link
I don't think you can even debate that.

Judge/Graham had ties to Ryan, Martinez, Ebner, the gunner that we traded for this year, Shelton at minimum. Then you have guys like Ragland and the guy who got suspended with Bama ties.

Garrett had ties to Alfred Morris, the tackle we had last year (was also a Pat), Looney, Cooper Rush.

Bechter had ties to Mauro, Bethea, the moneybacker, a couple more.

It didn't look like Shurmur brought any of his players and I think that is another reason why he just seemed like a playcaller. Crap, Gettleman handed him his offensive coordinator.

Ultimately, the Gettleman's name is attached to the last 4 years but to think that the coaches didn't have great deal related to this roster and/or most players (defense) seemed to have regressed from last year is not being intellectually honest.
RE: Ebner and Gillaspia are Judge guys  
Joe Beckwith : 10/21/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15423497 Rick in Dallas said:
I absolutely believe Judge had major input of this past year's draft and free agency period.
I think he totally thought the OL was good to go and play the kids as DG said.

I agree and been saying the same, especially the draft. An extra top end pick for ‘22, a weapon on O, an edge / LB, a CB, an edge/ LB: the BB versatile and player flipping methodology, plus the 2nd trade in an organization notorious for drafting BPA in their spot.
Good post Slim  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/21/2021 12:51 pm : link
It has not gone well for DG and he will be gone but it not like he assembled the mess all on his own. I also think a QB was a total no go in 2018 and Mara committed to Eli finishing his contract. I'll add Betcher was the one pushing for Baker as he said he needed one for his defense to work.

With the way the Giants operate with this "consensus" approach it hard to really know what is going on with certainty.
I like this thread  
dancing blue bear : 10/21/2021 12:51 pm : link
And I like the fact it hasn’t gone off the rails… yet

Collaborative is the only thing I actually know. They say it. The actions back it up.

Say what you want about the FO but they support the coaches with the players they is extremely evident in FA. We saw it with shurmur and particularly betcher. We see it judge. We don’t actually know how that applies to the draft but I think it is reasonable to ASSUME the coaches are involved in draft on a similar level as FA.

The Christ s Mara shit drives me nuts because no one actually knows. And people speak as if they do. It is possible his title is purely ceremonial. He may also contribute to the FO side of evaluation. He might have a lot of say in it. I have know idea. I believe we all follow this team closely and none of us actually know.

That said there has been things I like and dislike about the moves the last 2 and 4 years. I would have rather have kept Tomlinson the sign Jackson (assuming those are comparable)

I like the young offensive linemen we have and think they could develop into a good unit. I think you gotta let them play. However I would have kept Zietler or drafted a guard in the top 4. One or the other. In terms of depth it’s not reasonable for a team to be 8 deep on quality IOL. That’s shit luck.

Peary not developing is a puzzle. I felt good about him improving as a starter this year and solder as a back up. I’m not gonna monday morning QB that situation.

remember DG took all those cardinals guys....  
Platos : 10/21/2021 5:09 pm : link
regardless what we think and how it works, they're making shitty choices along the way.

we've drafted a good amount of LBs between both HCs to not have a certified starter. Crowder is not it. DB too. we fell in love with every 4th/5th round DB since julian love.

we're all looking for somewhere to point a finger but we need to just realize its bad all over.

VietVetNV : 10/21/2021 5:51 pm : link
So, stop blaming DG for everything. The blame is shared, also with Mara. Patrick Graham shares in the blame as well. Ultimately the players aren't playing well and many are injury prone.
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