Mike Florio and Chris Simms air out their grievances heading into Week 7 of the NFL, including how to save the 1-5 Giants team. #NBCSports #ProFootballTalk
#NewYorkGiants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT4oraHrMxQ - ( New Window )
Florio makes a good point about someone needing to tell John Maras to step back, but Chris Simms is too close to the Mara family to allow this point to be expanded.
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Florio makes a good point about someone needing to tell John Maras to step back, but Chris Simms is too close to the Mara family to allow this point to be expanded.
Will listen later. But if what you said about Simms is true I find that very frustrating
Guys that are most close to the Giants and should be a source of in depth and meaningful info for us fans generally rely on platitude and cliches in reporting, resulting in meaningless fluff.
O Hara, Diehl, Cruz, Toomer, Dottino, are in that group. They speak of the same problems to be addressed after every game never delving into the why this franchise has been so awful the past decade
Banks, Cross aNd Papa are a bit more forthcoming but even they never address the sensitive issues
These games should not only be addressed as an individual game, it would be nice if the volume of losing were discussed
Would love to hear a true assessment from these guys as to the state of this franchise, but we just don’t
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
The players are playing awful. Graham's defensive schemes
And Garrett's offense seems to scheme better when the Offensive Line actually doesn't keep breaking down.
just sayin'...
I wouldn't characterize the defense as 'working well' last year. Compared to this year, they were just 'less bad'. On paper, the talent level has been increased, but the result is worse. My point is that this team's problem can't be pinned down to poor talent. A contributor to the problem... sure. Coaching needs to be put into the list of things that need to be fixed...
It's a mentality - a culture problem at this point.
It's all got to go AND yes - there will have to be some throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Here's the only way out - completely start over.
STEP ONE: DG and the front office staff need to be completely cleared out - this will be the hardest part of the entire process - but it's the only part that remained intact during previous psuedo-overalls. The GM, the cap people, the scouting department, the family members in charge of personnel, anyone that was a part of the group think that got them in this place to begin with. This is REALLY hard to do, it will require Giants ownership to look at their entire infrastructure and admit that it was a failure. Without step one - the rest of it doesn't matter. This process needs to start now in an attempt to stop any further damage this group can do moving forward AND the sooner the NYG move on from the this group, the faster they can get back into winning.
STEP TWO: Hire the Sam Hinkie of NFL GMs to start the whole thing over...NOW. THe NYG are staring down a 2-8 or 3-7 start. THey need to tank and get as many assets as possible to start this thing over. Trade whoever's tradable, get whatever they can in return. There's no point in playing for today any more. This hire needs to take place sooner than later since they will ultimately be responsible for rebuilding the entire front office. This GM has to have a track record of success in the NFL, understands the new NFL, and has to be given some time to restructure and rebuild. THis kind of change won't happen over night.
STEP THREE: At the end of year - Judge has to go. The new GM needs to hire a Brett Brown type - sacrificial lamb type guy that knows that the rebuild is going to be tough, but development and rebuild is the focus. This new coach needs to bring in young, hungry NFL coordinators that can teach new age NFL concepts to a new young, hungry core of players.
STEP FOUR: Don't compound mistakes. MOST of the DG draftees CANNOT get a second contract. Engram (actually a Reece pick), Peppers (DG trade), Barkley, Jones, whoever...they gotta go. I've said it before and I"ll say it again - I don't think these guys are bad players - they might leave NY and have successful NFL careers - but it's not going to be in NY - it's just not. With the amount of losing these guys have done here, psychologically, it would be impossible to overcome. They need to go. If you can trade em - great - get something for em...but if you can't ...don't make the mistake of resigning them.
Bottom line - MOST NFL teams have 3 things that all mesh well (at least in the beginning) to start a winner: a GM (front office) + a legit NFL coach + a legit starting QB.
IF you want to win in today's NFL - I really believe this is most likely scenario to make it happen.
RE: RE: The players are playing awful. Graham's defensive schemes
And Garrett's offense seems to scheme better when the Offensive Line actually doesn't keep breaking down.
just sayin'...
I wouldn't characterize the defense as 'working well' last year. Compared to this year, they were just 'less bad'. On paper, the talent level has been increased, but the result is worse. My point is that this team's problem can't be pinned down to poor talent. A contributor to the problem... sure. Coaching needs to be put into the list of things that need to be fixed...
Bama - I don't think it unreasonable to say the 2020 defense was better than just "less bad" versus 2021. I also don't think the talent level on defense has been really increased...Jackson was really the only one big addition and while he may cost a lot but looks like that was a player eval miss so far.
Imv, the #1 issue facing this team is talent. They need far more, in terms of both starters and some key depth areas. They have some talent on Defense, but it is underperforming a lot. The minimal talent on offense is injured.
I tried to listen to the Papa/Banks Podcast this morning
I didn't make it 5 minutes. I feel bad for Carl Banks. He's run out of things he can say without saying something that won't be career suicide. So he talked about the players having to die and be reborn. That something has to die inside them and be reborn. I turned it off because I was embarrassed for him. He and the fans who support the Giants deserve better.
We all know what needs to happen. But it won't. A football president needs to be hired with totally on field autonomy including the coaching staff and full autonomy over the entire player acquisition group. It all needs to be cleaned out and the owners and family members all need to step away. 0.0 chance of that happening.
Just turning over the GM, HC and roster doesn't work. It's been done twice in 5 years with the same results.
Chris Simms while not wanting to throw the Mara's under the bus -- for obvious reasons-- did in fact not let them off the hook either.
I just happen to find this Daniel Jones defending kind of interesting. While I agree that last week was not a fair way to judge Jones and while i agree the team is JV on talent, and I am ready to Jettison Judge (I think he is a ham and egg coach) -- the fact remains is Jones has had time this year and still doesn't throw TDs. I mean if you 're goin gto build a team around Jones and get another running back to complement Barkley and some o line blockers that can smash people off the ball and get TDs in the red zone fine; but this is just not working. So Eli was washed but JOnes gets a pass? Eli played on teams that were even worse that this. Shep as a #1 guy pff.
we could be the detroit lions. For some reason I keep getting detriot lions ads and, I clicked on one just out of curiosity. They still have Barry Sanders Jerseys and other Sanders stuff featured prominently on the landing page. it is like huh? Did he not retire like 20 years ago????
RE: RE: The point is correct that the team just has poor talent
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
Great point. It’s likely both. We need more talent but coaching, especially coordinators, is a huge problem on both sides of the ball. All eleven defensive players are not so bad that every team can destroy them. That’s definitely scheme and coaching.
a "George Young" type intervention. Where John and his family step away. And it better happen pretty soon. If John retires and turns the organization over to the "third generation" (headed up by Tim what's his name)and his 10 or so siblings and the group of Tisch kids after Steve, we will have a cluster fuck of epic proportions where maybe 25 people all fight to "call the shots". We might not win a game for a decade in that scenario.
a "George Young" type intervention. Where John and his family step away. And it better happen pretty soon. If John retires and turns the organization over to the "third generation" (headed up by Tim what's his name)and his 10 or so siblings and the group of Tisch kids after Steve, we will have a cluster fuck of epic proportions where maybe 25 people all fight to "call the shots". We might not win a game for a decade in that scenario.
The players should have beaten WFT and the Falcons, and there was flat out failure on both counts. If you win, you're still 3-3 and looking like an average at best NFL team. Some of their best players are just good, regressing, there's no star level talent yet again. Their difference makers aren't good enough either. Need more talent, especially at the key positions we've been pounding the table for for years.
I think the talent issue pretty clearly is on the personnel evaluators, and this is where separation and potential changes to the staff becomes very sticky due to Maras being ingrained in the executive structure.
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?
What's more likely? That every coach for the past few staffs is completely incompetent, or that the players they're being given are not good?
I don't think it's necessarily a given either way, but I know what the probability is: the scouting and acquisition process is broken, the cap management is suboptimal, and the roster starts off at a disadvantage even before whatever coach is in charge begins the season.
Some of the things that are going wrong now were going wrong under Shurmur. And some of those were going wrong under McAdoo. And some of those were going wrong under Coughlin.
Do you want to trace together the commonalities?
The scouts are awful. Chris Mara is a problem. Kevin Abrams may not create cap hell but he has allowed it now under two separate GMs.
The players should have beaten WFT and the Falcons, and there was flat out failure on both counts. If you win, you're still 3-3 and looking like an average at best NFL team. Some of their best players are just good, regressing, there's no star level talent yet again. Their difference makers aren't good enough either. Need more talent, especially at the key positions we've been pounding the table for for years.
I think the talent issue pretty clearly is on the personnel evaluators, and this is where separation and potential changes to the staff becomes very sticky due to Maras being ingrained in the executive structure.
The farther you pull back it HAS to be the owners. There is no other conclusion possible.
58-92 Since 2012
2 GMs
4 Head coaches
2 Starting QBs
The owners pick the GM and other owners hold other positions relating to personnel.
There is no accountability.
I agree that the only explanation can be ownership
Maybe the concept of a failure cascade is useful here: “ a process in a system of interconnected parts in which the failure of one or few parts can trigger the failure of other parts and so on.”
Failure rates are generally binary, while there are gradations in football performance. But what’s useful is to realize that workable parts (people) can malfunction if they are part of a failing system.
especially in the trenches. How many games do we watch where Giants get the shit kicked out of them physically? When was the last time they did that to another team?
After the 2010 season, the Giants have only finished in the top half of the league in rushing yards per game one time, 2012 when they were 14th. That's not to say tactically I want them to run run run, but it gives a window into how physically weak they've been offensively for so long. They couldn't even sneak into the top third once lol? But they spent two first round picks on Rbs in that span...
They have been consistently weak in terms of depth and top level talent where it matters most.
Agreed. Their points are reasonable, and like many things, people tend to take things too far which is where analytics in football may be heading.
Also, Thanks to Jints for sharing this video. I agree with almost all that was said. I feel this was a conversation that most Giants fans can get behind. I do wonder though, how the offense would look with their OL intact. The Giants were supposed to start: LT Thomas, LG lemieux, C Gates, Hernandez RG, Peart/Solder RT. The line once again has been the problem, with injuries having the most impact. While, many roster mistakes have been made, it is fair to wonder how this unit might have progressed as the season went on; how would that possible progression affect other positions, QB, RB, WR?
Anyway, Like Simms and Florio said in the video, the Giants are at an interesting place if they want Joe Judge after this year (I think he probably needs to be back), but want a new GM that may not want the coach. Obviously, only hiring a GM that agrees to work with the current coach may significantly cut down your potential hires. We have to consider how likely it is that Judge may have a significant impact in player acquisitions, as he should. If that is the case, there is probably no reason to fire the GM if their sole job is not selecting the draft picks or free agents, but mostly getting the players the coach wants. The Giants know the answer to this, but unfortunately we do not know, have never really been given any information on how this works other than, "It's a collaborative effort", which is pretty vague.
Some people are acting like this roster is the 94 Cowboys but just hard with injuries. Lets be honest, even this team completely healthy and playing up to their potential is at best a playoff contender...maybe.
Gettleman has spent a fortune and picked at the top of the draft for 4 straight years and has little to show for it. He has a starting left tackle and promising rookie WR. The rest is a giant question mark from his picks.
Free agency has yielded Bradberry and Williams ( trade but resigned). The rest are busts or question marks.
The coaching staff is also a big question mark that has been outcoached weekly this year.
That is simply a horrendous record over 4 years. It's surprising he still has a job. When is the last time an NFL GM was fired in season?
Some people are acting like this roster is the 94 Cowboys but just hard with injuries. Lets be honest, even this team completely healthy and playing up to their potential is at best a playoff contender...maybe.
Gettleman has spent a fortune and picked at the top of the draft for 4 straight years and has little to show for it. He has a starting left tackle and promising rookie WR. The rest is a giant question mark from his picks.
Free agency has yielded Bradberry and Williams ( trade but resigned). The rest are busts or question marks.
The coaching staff is also a big question mark that has been outcoached weekly this year.
That is simply a horrendous record over 4 years. It's surprising he still has a job. When is the last time an NFL GM was fired in season?
I think Bill O'Brien, but he was one of those coach/GM combos.
our 3rd consecutive coach after 2 years with a subpar roster ..... What halfway decent coach will take the job?
There are only 32 of these jobs in existence. There will always be strong candidates willing to accept the head coaching position of the NYG. That's especially true once Gettleman is shit-canned.
The key will be to hire the correct GM. One that knows how to build a team and somehow has the ability to find a delicate way to convince Mara to stay the hell out of the way. He must be allowed to hire the head coach (while skillfully blowing off Mara's suggestions).
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Will listen later. But if what you said about Simms is true I find that very frustrating
Guys that are most close to the Giants and should be a source of in depth and meaningful info for us fans generally rely on platitude and cliches in reporting, resulting in meaningless fluff.
O Hara, Diehl, Cruz, Toomer, Dottino, are in that group. They speak of the same problems to be addressed after every game never delving into the why this franchise has been so awful the past decade
Banks, Cross aNd Papa are a bit more forthcoming but even they never address the sensitive issues
These games should not only be addressed as an individual game, it would be nice if the volume of losing were discussed
Would love to hear a true assessment from these guys as to the state of this franchise, but we just don’t
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
And Garrett's offense seems to scheme better when the Offensive Line actually doesn't keep breaking down.
just sayin'...
And Garrett's offense seems to scheme better when the Offensive Line actually doesn't keep breaking down.
just sayin'...
I wouldn't characterize the defense as 'working well' last year. Compared to this year, they were just 'less bad'. On paper, the talent level has been increased, but the result is worse. My point is that this team's problem can't be pinned down to poor talent. A contributor to the problem... sure. Coaching needs to be put into the list of things that need to be fixed...
Here's the only way out - completely start over.
STEP ONE: DG and the front office staff need to be completely cleared out - this will be the hardest part of the entire process - but it's the only part that remained intact during previous psuedo-overalls. The GM, the cap people, the scouting department, the family members in charge of personnel, anyone that was a part of the group think that got them in this place to begin with. This is REALLY hard to do, it will require Giants ownership to look at their entire infrastructure and admit that it was a failure. Without step one - the rest of it doesn't matter. This process needs to start now in an attempt to stop any further damage this group can do moving forward AND the sooner the NYG move on from the this group, the faster they can get back into winning.
STEP TWO: Hire the Sam Hinkie of NFL GMs to start the whole thing over...NOW. THe NYG are staring down a 2-8 or 3-7 start. THey need to tank and get as many assets as possible to start this thing over. Trade whoever's tradable, get whatever they can in return. There's no point in playing for today any more. This hire needs to take place sooner than later since they will ultimately be responsible for rebuilding the entire front office. This GM has to have a track record of success in the NFL, understands the new NFL, and has to be given some time to restructure and rebuild. THis kind of change won't happen over night.
STEP THREE: At the end of year - Judge has to go. The new GM needs to hire a Brett Brown type - sacrificial lamb type guy that knows that the rebuild is going to be tough, but development and rebuild is the focus. This new coach needs to bring in young, hungry NFL coordinators that can teach new age NFL concepts to a new young, hungry core of players.
STEP FOUR: Don't compound mistakes. MOST of the DG draftees CANNOT get a second contract. Engram (actually a Reece pick), Peppers (DG trade), Barkley, Jones, whoever...they gotta go. I've said it before and I"ll say it again - I don't think these guys are bad players - they might leave NY and have successful NFL careers - but it's not going to be in NY - it's just not. With the amount of losing these guys have done here, psychologically, it would be impossible to overcome. They need to go. If you can trade em - great - get something for em...but if you can't ...don't make the mistake of resigning them.
Bottom line - MOST NFL teams have 3 things that all mesh well (at least in the beginning) to start a winner: a GM (front office) + a legit NFL coach + a legit starting QB.
IF you want to win in today's NFL - I really believe this is most likely scenario to make it happen.
Quote:
seemed to work well last year didn't they?
And Garrett's offense seems to scheme better when the Offensive Line actually doesn't keep breaking down.
just sayin'...
I wouldn't characterize the defense as 'working well' last year. Compared to this year, they were just 'less bad'. On paper, the talent level has been increased, but the result is worse. My point is that this team's problem can't be pinned down to poor talent. A contributor to the problem... sure. Coaching needs to be put into the list of things that need to be fixed...
Bama - I don't think it unreasonable to say the 2020 defense was better than just "less bad" versus 2021. I also don't think the talent level on defense has been really increased...Jackson was really the only one big addition and while he may cost a lot but looks like that was a player eval miss so far.
Imv, the #1 issue facing this team is talent. They need far more, in terms of both starters and some key depth areas. They have some talent on Defense, but it is underperforming a lot. The minimal talent on offense is injured.
We all know what needs to happen. But it won't. A football president needs to be hired with totally on field autonomy including the coaching staff and full autonomy over the entire player acquisition group. It all needs to be cleaned out and the owners and family members all need to step away. 0.0 chance of that happening.
Just turning over the GM, HC and roster doesn't work. It's been done twice in 5 years with the same results.
I just happen to find this Daniel Jones defending kind of interesting. While I agree that last week was not a fair way to judge Jones and while i agree the team is JV on talent, and I am ready to Jettison Judge (I think he is a ham and egg coach) -- the fact remains is Jones has had time this year and still doesn't throw TDs. I mean if you 're goin gto build a team around Jones and get another running back to complement Barkley and some o line blockers that can smash people off the ball and get TDs in the red zone fine; but this is just not working. So Eli was washed but JOnes gets a pass? Eli played on teams that were even worse that this. Shep as a #1 guy pff.
Quote:
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
Great point. It’s likely both. We need more talent but coaching, especially coordinators, is a huge problem on both sides of the ball. All eleven defensive players are not so bad that every team can destroy them. That’s definitely scheme and coaching.
I don't think this is coming.
Me too. Or we are fucked.
I think the talent issue pretty clearly is on the personnel evaluators, and this is where separation and potential changes to the staff becomes very sticky due to Maras being ingrained in the executive structure.
1. What the hell does that even mean? Does that mean this team is capable of winning 10 in a row and making the playoff?
No - OK then who wants another 6 win season just like you did last year?
Quote:
up and down the roster. This is why DG has to go. If every player was playing up to his potential, this still isn't likely a playoff team. The Giants have drafted poorly and missed more often than they gave hit in free agency the last four years.
I don't think Judge is a lost cause, but if you bring in a new GM you have to let him make the call on whether Judge stays or goes. No pre-requisites.
And I think Florio summed up the Jones situation well. He can be serviceable on a good team, but is not what the Giants hoped he would be. He can likely captain a top-tier team well, but he just isn't one of the elite guys that can make players around him better.
Do we really know that there is a team filled with poor players? I know this is a popular theme, but that doesn't account for a decade of incompetence with 4 different head coaches and two different GMs. Could the problem be that we have good players that don't play to their potential because the coaching staff doesn't know how to apply their skills in the right schemes?
Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?
What's more likely? That every coach for the past few staffs is completely incompetent, or that the players they're being given are not good?
I don't think it's necessarily a given either way, but I know what the probability is: the scouting and acquisition process is broken, the cap management is suboptimal, and the roster starts off at a disadvantage even before whatever coach is in charge begins the season.
Some of the things that are going wrong now were going wrong under Shurmur. And some of those were going wrong under McAdoo. And some of those were going wrong under Coughlin.
Do you want to trace together the commonalities?
The scouts are awful. Chris Mara is a problem. Kevin Abrams may not create cap hell but he has allowed it now under two separate GMs.
I think the talent issue pretty clearly is on the personnel evaluators, and this is where separation and potential changes to the staff becomes very sticky due to Maras being ingrained in the executive structure.
58-92 Since 2012
2 GMs
4 Head coaches
2 Starting QBs
The owners pick the GM and other owners hold other positions relating to personnel.
There is no accountability.
Failure rates are generally binary, while there are gradations in football performance. But what’s useful is to realize that workable parts (people) can malfunction if they are part of a failing system.
Cascading failure - ( New Window )
After the 2010 season, the Giants have only finished in the top half of the league in rushing yards per game one time, 2012 when they were 14th. That's not to say tactically I want them to run run run, but it gives a window into how physically weak they've been offensively for so long. They couldn't even sneak into the top third once lol? But they spent two first round picks on Rbs in that span...
They have been consistently weak in terms of depth and top level talent where it matters most.
Yeah Mike Florio and Chris Simms. Really the guys that understand analytics the best yeah. And I guess everyone in "that crowd" is the same too?
Quote:
.
Yeah Mike Florio and Chris Simms. Really the guys that understand analytics the best yeah. And I guess everyone in "that crowd" is the same too?
Ironically your answer only helps make their point.
Agreed. Their points are reasonable, and like many things, people tend to take things too far which is where analytics in football may be heading.
Also, Thanks to Jints for sharing this video. I agree with almost all that was said. I feel this was a conversation that most Giants fans can get behind. I do wonder though, how the offense would look with their OL intact. The Giants were supposed to start: LT Thomas, LG lemieux, C Gates, Hernandez RG, Peart/Solder RT. The line once again has been the problem, with injuries having the most impact. While, many roster mistakes have been made, it is fair to wonder how this unit might have progressed as the season went on; how would that possible progression affect other positions, QB, RB, WR?
Anyway, Like Simms and Florio said in the video, the Giants are at an interesting place if they want Joe Judge after this year (I think he probably needs to be back), but want a new GM that may not want the coach. Obviously, only hiring a GM that agrees to work with the current coach may significantly cut down your potential hires. We have to consider how likely it is that Judge may have a significant impact in player acquisitions, as he should. If that is the case, there is probably no reason to fire the GM if their sole job is not selecting the draft picks or free agents, but mostly getting the players the coach wants. The Giants know the answer to this, but unfortunately we do not know, have never really been given any information on how this works other than, "It's a collaborative effort", which is pretty vague.
Again, good stuff from Simms and Florio.
Gettleman has spent a fortune and picked at the top of the draft for 4 straight years and has little to show for it. He has a starting left tackle and promising rookie WR. The rest is a giant question mark from his picks.
Free agency has yielded Bradberry and Williams ( trade but resigned). The rest are busts or question marks.
The coaching staff is also a big question mark that has been outcoached weekly this year.
That is simply a horrendous record over 4 years. It's surprising he still has a job. When is the last time an NFL GM was fired in season?
Gettleman has spent a fortune and picked at the top of the draft for 4 straight years and has little to show for it. He has a starting left tackle and promising rookie WR. The rest is a giant question mark from his picks.
Free agency has yielded Bradberry and Williams ( trade but resigned). The rest are busts or question marks.
The coaching staff is also a big question mark that has been outcoached weekly this year.
That is simply a horrendous record over 4 years. It's surprising he still has a job. When is the last time an NFL GM was fired in season?
I think Bill O'Brien, but he was one of those coach/GM combos.
There are only 32 of these jobs in existence. There will always be strong candidates willing to accept the head coaching position of the NYG. That's especially true once Gettleman is shit-canned.
The key will be to hire the correct GM. One that knows how to build a team and somehow has the ability to find a delicate way to convince Mara to stay the hell out of the way. He must be allowed to hire the head coach (while skillfully blowing off Mara's suggestions).