It's been a horrible ?decade--?2 decades with the Knicks, but they clearly have now found a way to overcome their let's-call-them administrative challenges. It took a lot of time a lot of distancing Dolan, but they now seem like they've turned a corner and become at least a respectable team. And it really just took a single season (plus some lead-in time for cap management). Last night was celebrity row at the Garden, and you feel like "they're back". Great game, by the way....
So something similar WILL happen with the Giants at some point. Mara seems like less of a problem than Dolan, and sooner or later he will get somebody in charge of football who has the skills to make them at least a respectable team, and it can happen pretty quickly when it turns. The situations aren't identical, but there are similarities.
So after having given up on the Knicks for a long time and now being back, I am sticking with the Giants and waiting for the turnaround. When will it happen? You got me.
Also, it is completely different sports. We can go back more than a couple of years ago with getting the cap in good position. That took years.
He made very bad choices and also put his 2 cents in too much.
He finally got luck and hired the right person in Rose and he brought a competent group with him
The problem is that there was never any real progress under Gettleman, and Mara has the same view as many here on BBI...give it time. It's only been two years with no improvement. It's only been three years with no improvement. Hey this guy is injured so of course there is no improvement.
When we have the right folks in place you will know because they team will start to be fun to watch. They may still lose more than they win, but you will see improvement across the season, not just an odd game here or there.
True, problem is the Giants are struggling to even do that.
Who cares if they win this weekend, it’s meaningless
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a regular season game. Whoopdie doo.
True, problem is the Giants are struggling to even do that.
Correct, but nearly 50 years without a title is not something I'd strive for.
Plus it's the NBA. Regular season doesn't matter much. Playoffs is all about star power. Though I do like Thibs, they won't contend for a title with this team.
Knicks seem to be approaching that point and hopefully will find the right fit
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In comment 15423531 KDavies said:
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a regular season game. Whoopdie doo.
True, problem is the Giants are struggling to even do that.
Correct, but nearly 50 years without a title is not something I'd strive for.
Plus it's the NBA. Regular season doesn't matter much. Playoffs is all about star power. Though I do like Thibs, they won't contend for a title with this team.
Only the most delusional Knicks fans are saying they'll contend with this team. But the Knicks are the most functional sports organization in NY right now and it's not particularly close.
This. Jackson was hired and given complete control and barely changed anything in the front office. Hired exactly one scout and everything else was the same. He churned through 3 bad coaches- one with zero coaching experience.
Leon Rose ( who has a lot more to prove to be fair) completely retooled the front office with top execs across the league. Also hired a great proven winning coach and a loaded coaching staff. They paid up big for top talent in the front office and coaching staff.
Who does Gettleman sound like?
Who does Gettleman
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defense steps up (abit) and Jones/Shepard is clicking - you'll see.
Who cares if they win this weekend, it’s meaningless
This isn't true until they suffer their 8th loss. Not that I expect anything, but facts are facts.
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In comment 15423506 stoneman said:
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defense steps up (abit) and Jones/Shepard is clicking - you'll see.
Who cares if they win this weekend, it’s meaningless
This isn't true until they suffer their 8th loss. Not that I expect anything, but facts are facts.
The seasons over.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
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In comment 15423595 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
Because I am sure Kemba Walker and Derrick Rose are going to be right in the middle of that title run. They were exposed in the playoffs, not even sure they got that much better and are far behind teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Nuggets, Suns, etc. They are so far from a title. What is the plan to get Zion in a few years. Ok, good. Call me then.
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In comment 15423601 Essex said:
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In comment 15423595 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
Because I am sure Kemba Walker and Derrick Rose are going to be right in the middle of that title run. They were exposed in the playoffs, not even sure they got that much better and are far behind teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Nuggets, Suns, etc. They are so far from a title. What is the plan to get Zion in a few years. Ok, good. Call me then.
You seem offended that the Knicks are on a better trajectory than the Giants. What does it matter if Kemba and Rose are part of the team that competes for a title or not? The OPs point was that the Knicks were able to turn it around and make progress, nobody called them a title contender or compare them to the Suns.
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In comment 15423603 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423601 Essex said:
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In comment 15423595 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
Because I am sure Kemba Walker and Derrick Rose are going to be right in the middle of that title run. They were exposed in the playoffs, not even sure they got that much better and are far behind teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Nuggets, Suns, etc. They are so far from a title. What is the plan to get Zion in a few years. Ok, good. Call me then.
You seem offended that the Knicks are on a better trajectory than the Giants. What does it matter if Kemba and Rose are part of the team that competes for a title or not? The OPs point was that the Knicks were able to turn it around and make progress, nobody called them a title contender or compare them to the Suns.
I am not offended and I like the Knicks (not a huge NBA guy), but I am not holding them out to be my model franchise at the moment. How about the Arizona Cardinals. That organization made hard decisions, like admitting they made a mistake in Josh Rosen. Within three years they have turned from the number one draft pick to a title contender. That is what I am looking to do. My only quibble was with the Knicks being a model franchise. Yes, they are better than where we are, but where they are is not where I want to be.
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In comment 15423609 Essex said:
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In comment 15423603 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423601 Essex said:
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In comment 15423595 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
Because I am sure Kemba Walker and Derrick Rose are going to be right in the middle of that title run. They were exposed in the playoffs, not even sure they got that much better and are far behind teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Nuggets, Suns, etc. They are so far from a title. What is the plan to get Zion in a few years. Ok, good. Call me then.
You seem offended that the Knicks are on a better trajectory than the Giants. What does it matter if Kemba and Rose are part of the team that competes for a title or not? The OPs point was that the Knicks were able to turn it around and make progress, nobody called them a title contender or compare them to the Suns.
I am not offended and I like the Knicks (not a huge NBA guy), but I am not holding them out to be my model franchise at the moment. How about the Arizona Cardinals. That organization made hard decisions, like admitting they made a mistake in Josh Rosen. Within three years they have turned from the number one draft pick to a title contender. That is what I am looking to do. My only quibble was with the Knicks being a model franchise. Yes, they are better than where we are, but where they are is not where I want to be.
You realize thr Knicks have 1 of the younger teams in tbe NBA right? they arent built just on vets, they have youbg guys cintributing as well
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In comment 15423614 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423609 Essex said:
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In comment 15423603 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423601 Essex said:
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In comment 15423595 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15423577 Essex said:
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they are nowhere near competing for a title. They are middling NBA team. The Giants stink, but when we do turn this around, I am hoping to jump a little bit hire than the old 9-8.
For starters the Knicks have a plan that’s working. What do the Giants have right now?
It seems like they have a plan to be a middling team. If that is your goal fine, it is better than being a doormat like the Giants have been, but I would like to aim a bit higher.
How is there plan to be a middling team? They were a 4 seed last year, and improved the team this offseason. They also have a long term plan and the flexibility and assets to get a star when one becomes available. The plan is to compete for a title, they just aren’t there in Year 2 yet.
Because I am sure Kemba Walker and Derrick Rose are going to be right in the middle of that title run. They were exposed in the playoffs, not even sure they got that much better and are far behind teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Nuggets, Suns, etc. They are so far from a title. What is the plan to get Zion in a few years. Ok, good. Call me then.
You seem offended that the Knicks are on a better trajectory than the Giants. What does it matter if Kemba and Rose are part of the team that competes for a title or not? The OPs point was that the Knicks were able to turn it around and make progress, nobody called them a title contender or compare them to the Suns.
I am not offended and I like the Knicks (not a huge NBA guy), but I am not holding them out to be my model franchise at the moment. How about the Arizona Cardinals. That organization made hard decisions, like admitting they made a mistake in Josh Rosen. Within three years they have turned from the number one draft pick to a title contender. That is what I am looking to do. My only quibble was with the Knicks being a model franchise. Yes, they are better than where we are, but where they are is not where I want to be.
You realize thr Knicks have 1 of the younger teams in tbe NBA right? they arent built just on vets, they have youbg guys cintributing as well
Not sold that Randle, Toppin, RJ, or Quickley are guys to build around for an NBA title. But, we can disagree even if you added another star.
You can’t deny the Knicks have made a significant amount of progress, way more than the Giants, in a shorter amount of time. The Knicks are closer to being able to compete for a title than the Giants and that’s saying a lot given the state of the Knicks franchise over the past 20 years.
Admitted they have a problem and made wholesale changes.
Rj averaged 18ppg on a playoff team and is starting to show 2 way potential and is only 21
Robinson is a difference maker when he is healthy..
Toppin has already shown improvement, he is not going to be a star but he is a good player..
The Knicks are not a middling team, they are an ascending team..
Rj averaged 18ppg on a playoff team and is starting to show 2 way potential and is only 21
Robinson is a difference maker when he is healthy..
Toppin has already shown improvement, he is not going to be a star but he is a good player..
The Knicks are not a middling team, they are an ascending team..
I’m not sure how someone could watch last nights game and call them a middling team. Everyone around the league thinks highly of the Knicks and their trajectory. The depth could win them 50 games
Rj averaged 18ppg on a playoff team and is starting to show 2 way potential and is only 21
Robinson is a difference maker when he is healthy..
Toppin has already shown improvement, he is not going to be a star but he is a good player..
The Knicks are not a middling team, they are an ascending team..
Come on, you are overvaluing your own players, which we have seen done so often on this website. Randle showed last year in the playoffs what kind of player he is, a good one--not a star. When defenses got down to business, he was taken out--no ands, ifs, or buts about it.
RJ is a limited player.
You are basically counting on some unsigned person on another roster. The Knicks won't even be the best team in their own city for the next 4-5 years.
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there is no if ands or buts about it, he is a star..
Rj averaged 18ppg on a playoff team and is starting to show 2 way potential and is only 21
Robinson is a difference maker when he is healthy..
Toppin has already shown improvement, he is not going to be a star but he is a good player..
The Knicks are not a middling team, they are an ascending team..
Come on, you are overvaluing your own players, which we have seen done so often on this website. Randle showed last year in the playoffs what kind of player he is, a good one--not a star. When defenses got down to business, he was taken out--no ands, ifs, or buts about it.
RJ is a limited player.
You are basically counting on some unsigned person on another roster. The Knicks won't even be the best team in their own city for the next 4-5 years.
RJ is a limited player? He added a pull up three to his game and shot 3-7 from 3 last night. Along with playing very good defense all night on Tatum. RJ may not be a superstar but he’s going to continue to develop and become a very good piece for this team.
One playoff series doesn’t negate Randles larger sample size of last year plus last night. Randles not a super star but he’s definitely in the next tier. I’m not sure you’ve watched much of the Knicks.
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there is no if ands or buts about it, he is a star..
Rj averaged 18ppg on a playoff team and is starting to show 2 way potential and is only 21
Robinson is a difference maker when he is healthy..
Toppin has already shown improvement, he is not going to be a star but he is a good player..
The Knicks are not a middling team, they are an ascending team..
Come on, you are overvaluing your own players, which we have seen done so often on this website. Randle showed last year in the playoffs what kind of player he is, a good one--not a star. When defenses got down to business, he was taken out--no ands, ifs, or buts about it.
RJ is a limited player.
You are basically counting on some unsigned person on another roster. The Knicks won't even be the best team in their own city for the next 4-5 years.
There's every indication they'll be better than the Giants, unfortunately.
Randle was an all NBA player averaged 25 10 and 5, that is a star
How many teams is Randle the third best player on?
Lakers, Warriors, Nets…. And that’s probably it.
Not to mention all the really good teams have been in the west for like 20+ years
Lol name those teams please
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it's not worth quibbling about. The reality is, he may be playing teams where he would be the 3rd or 4th best player.
How many teams is Randle the third best player on?
Lakers, Warriors, Nets…. And that’s probably it.
Congratulations! You named the teams that are the contenders. Add in the Bucks as contenders. (Randle would be #2 there IMO)
Maybe add in the Clippers (if George and Leonard are healthy) and the Suns (Booker, Ayton, Paul)
That's what the NBA is. Super teams. The Knicks are doing a good job, but until they have a star ball handler, they aren't a contender.
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it's not worth quibbling about. The reality is, he may be playing teams where he would be the 3rd or 4th best player.
Lol name those teams please
Lakers, Warriors, Nets, Suns, Clippers (health permitting). And that's not even talking about teams that have a superstar with a good surrounding cast, like the Bucks.
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In comment 15423664 KDavies said:
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it's not worth quibbling about. The reality is, he may be playing teams where he would be the 3rd or 4th best player.
Lol name those teams please
Lakers, Warriors, Nets, Suns, Clippers (health permitting). And that's not even talking about teams that have a superstar with a good surrounding cast, like the Bucks.
Lakers he would be 3rd agreed..
Warriors id argue until Thompson comes back he is 2nd..
Nets 3rd agreed
Suns he is better than ayton, paul is debateable because of age..
Clippers he is 3rd if everyone is healthy..
But you do realize the Kbicks have probably 1 of the best benches in the NBA right? they also have probably the best depth..Knicks arent jist Julius Randle..
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In comment 15423674 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15423664 KDavies said:
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it's not worth quibbling about. The reality is, he may be playing teams where he would be the 3rd or 4th best player.
Lol name those teams please
Lakers, Warriors, Nets, Suns, Clippers (health permitting). And that's not even talking about teams that have a superstar with a good surrounding cast, like the Bucks.
Lakers he would be 3rd agreed..
Warriors id argue until Thompson comes back he is 2nd..
Nets 3rd agreed
Suns he is better than ayton, paul is debateable because of age..
Clippers he is 3rd if everyone is healthy..
But you do realize the Kbicks have probably 1 of the best benches in the NBA right? they also have probably the best depth..Knicks arent jist Julius Randle..
Yes, I realize that. Believe me, I much prefer teams like the Bucks (built around 1 star) or the Knicks, or the Heat as currently constructed, or the Bulls winning championships. I just don't think Randle is the best player on a championship team with the current NBA. To be contenders, I think the Knicks need another star in the backcourt. I don't think it's a particularly controversial opinion.
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In comment 15423681 KDavies said:
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In comment 15423674 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15423664 KDavies said:
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it's not worth quibbling about. The reality is, he may be playing teams where he would be the 3rd or 4th best player.
Lol name those teams please
Lakers, Warriors, Nets, Suns, Clippers (health permitting). And that's not even talking about teams that have a superstar with a good surrounding cast, like the Bucks.
Lakers he would be 3rd agreed..
Warriors id argue until Thompson comes back he is 2nd..
Nets 3rd agreed
Suns he is better than ayton, paul is debateable because of age..
Clippers he is 3rd if everyone is healthy..
But you do realize the Kbicks have probably 1 of the best benches in the NBA right? they also have probably the best depth..Knicks arent jist Julius Randle..
Yes, I realize that. Believe me, I much prefer teams like the Bucks (built around 1 star) or the Knicks, or the Heat as currently constructed, or the Bulls winning championships. I just don't think Randle is the best player on a championship team with the current NBA. To be contenders, I think the Knicks need another star in the backcourt. I don't think it's a particularly controversial opinion.
I agree with that 100% most teams need 2 stars to win a ship, Bucks won because Middleton and Holiday stepped up..
No star is really winning by themselves
I am not defensive, I hope the Knicks do well, but I am not going to sit here and say "wel, gee wiz, I wish we were the Knicks." I wish we were the Nets, tbh.
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In comment 15423540 Heisenberg said:
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In comment 15423531 KDavies said:
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a regular season game. Whoopdie doo.
True, problem is the Giants are struggling to even do that.
Correct, but nearly 50 years without a title is not something I'd strive for.
Plus it's the NBA. Regular season doesn't matter much. Playoffs is all about star power. Though I do like Thibs, they won't contend for a title with this team.
Only the most delusional Knicks fans are saying they'll contend with this team. But the Knicks are the most functional sports organization in NY right now and it's not particularly close.
I'd say the Bills right now.
1. you didn't get the point the OP was making. the Knicks went from a clueless organization, with a meddling owner, with no plan or direction, and now have a stable front office with a plan both short term and long term. Neither of which you seem to have the capability to recognize.
2. the NETS- if they don't win this year, they are screwed cap wise for years to come. Their stars aren't getting any younger, and their contracts are a disaster waiting to happen.
3. you have to reach competitive level, BEFORE you can contend for a title. That's normally how it works. That's how Brooklyn attracted Durant, they become competitive first. The Knicks will likely win 50 games this year. That's competitive, which achieves the short term goal- making the franchise viable again.