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Thursday, October 21, 2021
Panthers Head Coach Matt Rhule Conference Call – Approx. 10:00 a.m.
Special Teams Coordinator Thomas McGaughey – Approx. 10:15 a.m.
Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator Patrick Graham – Approx. 10:25 a.m.
Offensive Coordinator Jason Garrett – Approx. 10:35 a.m.
Offensive Assistants – Approx. 11:30 a.m.
Defensive Assistants – Approx. 11:45 a.m.
Practice – 12:00 p.m. – 1:45 p.m.
Players Available – After Practice
1) Though we have been absolutely injury riddled, this team pinned its hopes on a OL that was NOT vastly improved or changed from the end of 2020. Shane Lemieux is now looked at as a huge missing piece BUT, he was a question mark coming into the season. The fact that he was starter (the older vets signed and retired were still backups) still shows how we hadn't FIXED the line yet. SL was no guaranteed success and that cannot be ignored when trying to tag injuries as the main factor for the Oline failure.
2) Though not at 100% strength we did have enough firepower and players to lead botyh Washington and Atlanta, only to once again fail to put them away and fail to stop them from winning late. Since both teams would be considered mediocre at best that screams far more negative to me than the blowout losses to Dallas and the LA Rams- both games where we were severely handicapped due to injury.
When you consider how bad those losses are, not just in the single game view point but to our overall season, you see the complete failure it really is. Win those games and then you would be weathering the storm of injuries with at least 3 wins in your pocket. Instead we sit with 1 win and looking at a number of losses more before we can be "healthier" again and try and win some games. Those two losses are the epitome of DG's failure to put together a solid team (a better Oline probably allows us to win the ATL game), better EDGE play probably wins both Atl and Was. We have neither.
I don't know what to make of Joe Judge at the moment. He says a lot shit that isn't coming true and has the demeanor of a BB without the resume. He tends to come off as too all knowing without the results. An almost air of superiority or at least an air of knowing more than most and yet the on field display has been anything but. He coaches conservatively- TOO MUCH and his lack of awareness on challenges is pathetic. Situational football sounded great when he was hired and now sounds like a restrictive box that he does stray from. Momentum means more in football than in any other sport. He fails to see that.
DG on the other hand has to go. He was the wrong chocie from the start and proves daily that the times have passed him. He too suffers from the arrogance of self importance without a demonstrated record of success. In fact, everything he has preached or said would be his main focus has been a failure. SB has not been touched by the hand of GOD and plays more soft than strong and behind an oline that lacks both talent and overall physicality that is a HUGE problem. Add to that his consistent injury status and we have majorly whiffed at the 2nd spot in the 2018 draft! 2019 saw DG take Daniel Jones much earlier than most were projecting and in such a way that it provoked a slew of negative reactions- some racial, some just standard Giants grabbing X player and some downright calling DG predictable in that a Senior Bowl positive equals DG love... Though I have been on the Jones bandwagon I have now moved off that a bit as he has continued to struggle and last week was not good at all. To throw ints is one thing, to throw them right at the defender when there was nothing else there to see how that could not have been seen by DJ has me now thinking he is what he is. At some point you can't erase the losing and what that does to a person. Archie Manning was a losing QB and though he palyed with crappy teams, he was still a PART of crappy teams. At what point does that become who you are as a player. I don't know what we do with Jones for next year but I do know that I am no longer thinking he is the guy.
The rest of 2019's draft is another reason why DG has to go. Yes, many here will talk about Dexter Lawrence in the positive BUT, when you spend too much time and draft capital on an area of the team that cannot make huge changes to the overall game (more on that in a second) you have failed to see what an overall roster needs to look like. In our hybrid 3/4 defense, DE's are really DT's and then we have a NT (though he is more DT than NT). We then go and get LW and now we have this expensive (or soon to be expensive) DL group in a scheme that requires the DL to be more space eaters and containers than play makers. We compound that potential negative with having NO playmakers at LB (edge specifically) and a very suspect secondary. DG completely whiffed here and the idea that DL is somebody to build around is wrong. We have a ton of $$$ tied up in LW and DL will command more money soon (or at least demand) and we will not be able to pay that, all the while still need EDGE help and better LB"s overall. If the idea is top the run and rush the passer, by leaving your LB"s and EDGE group filled with a band of mix n match 2nd and 3rd tier guys you completely blew both components of that mantra. We cannot stop the run consistently and we sure the hell cannot rush the passer.
2018 and 2019's drafts are 100% on DG. He failed - Barkley is not a win due to our roster and overall team ability as a RB can NEVER overcome the Oline he plays behind. Olines can make 3rd tier backs look very good (see SF over the last few years and Denver years ago under Shanahan) but GREAT running backs cannot make an OLINE look good.
2020 and 2021 is a bit of mystery as to how much Joe Judge has played into the roster. I do know that I have never seen a bottom tier team spend more time signing and trading for ST's specific guys than this one. How many fucking ST specific players do you need? SB contending rosters can do that, 6-10 in a year where you almost won the division because of how pathetic each team was is not a roster that screams we are a few special teams only guys away from winning it all...
Back to Ralph's story, injuries are true and they are devastating but, the devastation they are bringing is after the fact that we lost games to two teams that are almost as bad as we are and injuries had nothing to do with those losses!
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
I would not be surprised at all if the organization uses him as a mouthpiece to get their narrative out there.
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
100%! Every team has injuries. Injuries might cost a close game but you do t get blown out every week because of injuries. The majority of injuries are on offense and we have a lot of depth ar WR. They are terrible and get trucked. Defense is giving up big numbers every week.
Jones does not appear to be a franchise QB. He is getting a lot of support because he is one of the best players on a very bad team.
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
So you want to evaluate DJ with 55-70% of his projected starting O missing all season, and with ‘no depth’ ( and even the depth missing due to injury)?
He may or may not be the guy but neither the post New Orleans ,nor the post Rams game,especially , are the place to make that determination.
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The injury thing is bullshit. The Giants gambled on going into this season with no depth on the OL and got burned badly by it.
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
So you want to evaluate DJ with 55-70% of his projected starting O missing all season, and with ‘no depth’ ( and even the depth missing due to injury)?
He may or may not be the guy but neither the post New Orleans ,nor the post Rams game,especially , are the place to make that determination.
You know, You cannot sign and draft injury prone players, then when they get injured, say he not my fault look they are all injured.
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@art_stapleton
Matt Rhule: "It never really got to that point."
Rhule asked a hypothetical: if the Giants were in his driveway instead of the Panthers in January 2019, could he envision circumstances turning out differently.
Says he grew up wanting to be Bill Parcells.
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@ZackBlatt
Matt Rhule worked for the #Giants back in 2012 as an assistant O-Line coach. He said “one of the hardest decisions I made in my life” was leaving Tom Coughlin’s staff to become the Temple coach.
Loved his time here.
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@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
Matt Rhule says from his vantage point, he didn't choose the Panthers over the Giants or anyone. It's not like the Giants offered him a job to turn down, he says. Carolina did.
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@ZackBlatt
Thomas McGaughey mentioned Dante Pettis and Darnay Holmes as possible returners with CJ Board done for the year. #Giants
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
It wasn't just Golladay and Toney. Slayton and Shepard missed how many games? Collin Johnson is relied on and he's no more than a 5th. Ross is a bust. So you're relying then on CJ Board's of the world. The tight ends are underperforming, or misused. Depends on your opinion on the matter. Depth was an issue on the interior but the bigger problem has been OT sans Thomas.
Now, is DG to blame for putting trust into Peart? Suppose so, however, he did look good when healthy last year and bulked up. Solder beat him in camp and that that on the staff or front office. They didn't have way out on NS contract because of his opt out last year. It really screwed up the situation for getting rid of him for 2021.
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@JordanRaanan
Thomas McGaughey on his former assistant and former Giant Chase Blackburn: “I truly believe Chase is going to be a head coach in this league.”
Thinks Blackburn is extremely smart. Doing a great job as Panthers ST coach.
@Dan_Salomone
Patrick Graham was asked about how to fix QBs’ high completion percentage against the Giants. He says he needs to do a better job of mixing up coverages and disguising more to affect the QB.
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@ZackBlatt
Patrick Graham on Joe Judge: “The beauty of Joe is this: Consistency. The emotional consistency. The emotional stamina to be the same every day. If we won by three touchdowns or lost by three touchdowns, he’s consistent … he’s never too up, never too down.” #Giants
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@PLeonardNYDN
Pat Graham says he takes Matt Rhule at his word that #Panthers intend to run the ball 30-35 times a game, that they intend to run it a ton Sunday, and clearly he showed it to his players. A challenge for #Giants defense. “They’re aware of it.”
@giantswfan
#Giants #Garrett - toney had 3 catches in 6 plays vs rams...had plays just for him ready, then he got hurt
@giantswfan
#Giants #Garrett - jones been playing well...had 2 uncharacteristic decisions on 2 INTs - maybe saw something that was not there ..he will learn from it
@giantswfan
#Giants #Garrett on thomas - has responded really well since middle of last season...he will be back quickly...peart will get better with more snaps
@Dan_Salomone
Jason Garrett said Andrew Thomas was really developing into a heck of a good player. Every week you put the tape on, he was going against a good rusher and held his own.
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@DDuggan21
LB Azeez Ojulari is back after missing yesterday’s practice for a personal matter, per source.
@giantswfan
#Giants #Sale - trying to build consistency but hard to do with the injuries...hands are forced.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Sale - solder found a groove at RT and peart better suited to LT right now, so that is where they are staying
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Sale on peart - it is ok if technique is not always pefect, so tells him to battle on every play
@giantswfan
#Giants #Kitchens on judge - done a tremendous job..he is the same person every day and players and staff feel that energy from him
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Sherrer - hard to say when smith will be ready to help....he didnt play ncaa last season...behind in conditioning
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants Spencer - giving up too much leaky yardage....guys sometimes press and then make mistakes - got to stay disciplined
@giantswfan
#Giants #Henderson - all of the DBs have to more and the coaches have to do more...we have to fix it...
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Henderson - guys have to recognize the situation and what routes are likely coming, communicate and execute the coverage..
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Henderson - there have been times we've been beaten on plays we worked against in practice....sometimes the offense used different players to run the play - got to recognize it
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@ZackBlatt
Of Cooper Kupp’s easy 2nd TD last week, #Giants DB coach Jerome Henderson wasn’t happy with the effort from the DBs.
Did he think they could’ve gotten to Kupp before he scored?
Henderson: “I don’t know. We’ll never know. That’s the problem. I’d like to know.”
@Dan_Salomone
Joe Judge said John Ross (hamstring) will be at practice today. The other injured players on offense are progressing in the right direction.
Zack Rosenblatt
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@ZackBlatt
Kadarius Toney, Kenny Golladay and Saquon Barkley all won’t practice today but Joe Judge said they’re going “in the right direction.”
Sure doesn’t sound like they’ll play this week. #Giants
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@ZackBlatt
Joe Judge said it’s on him to turn things around for the #Giants: “The fish stinks from the head down … it starts with me and it ends with me.”
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In comment 15423649 BH28 said:
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The injury thing is bullshit. The Giants gambled on going into this season with no depth on the OL and got burned badly by it.
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
So you want to evaluate DJ with 55-70% of his projected starting O missing all season, and with ‘no depth’ ( and even the depth missing due to injury)?
He may or may not be the guy but neither the post New Orleans ,nor the post Rams game,especially , are the place to make that determination.
You know, You cannot sign and draft injury prone players, then when they get injured, say he not my fault look they are all injured.
Shepard, Thomas, Barkley and Toney were injury prone in college? News to me...
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@DDuggan21
No sign of RB Saquon Barkley (ankle), WR Kenny Golladay (knee) and Kadarius Toney (ankle) at today’s practice. P-squad OL Isaiah Wilson (illness) was also absent again.
WR John Ross (hamstring), TE Kaden Smith (knee) and LB Azeez Ojulari (personal) were back.
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@PLeonardNYDN
#Giants DBs coach Jerome Henderson "obviously" had a problem with Logan Ryan & James Bradberry not getting to sideline on Kupp's 2nd TD.
“I don’t know if they coulda gotten there. I don’t know, but we’ll never know. That’s the problem: We’ll never know. I’d like to know.” 👀
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@ZackBlatt
Rob Sale that sack that it looked like Matt Peart allowed on his first snap at left tackle against the Rams wasn’t his fault.
Said the issues came from the inside. #Giants
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@art_stapleton
Asked Sale what this chance means for Matt Peart, and he said this:
"That's my message to him: you've got a great opportunity. What are you gonna do with it? For 3 games you get to be the guy. Don't look over your shoulder. We need you to play, play at a high level and produce."
And the so-called improvement must have been based solely on OTAs, since he got injured on the second day of training camp and was limited for the rest of preseason.
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@art_stapleton
Asked Sale what this chance means for Matt Peart, and he said this:
"That's my message to him: you've got a great opportunity. What are you gonna do with it? For 3 games you get to be the guy. Don't look over your shoulder. We need you to play, play at a high level and produce."
I mean just holy shit. You are still having to coax a player to do better Dave Gentlemen said he was not worried about when we had a chance to upgrade. I mean holy shit.
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Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
Asked Sale what this chance means for Matt Peart, and he said this:
"That's my message to him: you've got a great opportunity. What are you gonna do with it? For 3 games you get to be the guy. Don't look over your shoulder. We need you to play, play at a high level and produce."
I mean just holy shit. You are still having to coax a player to do better Dave Gentlemen said he was not worried about when we had a chance to upgrade. I mean holy shit.
What do you think coaches do?????
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In comment 15423895 Eric from BBI said:
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Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
Asked Sale what this chance means for Matt Peart, and he said this:
"That's my message to him: you've got a great opportunity. What are you gonna do with it? For 3 games you get to be the guy. Don't look over your shoulder. We need you to play, play at a high level and produce."
I mean just holy shit. You are still having to coax a player to do better Dave Gentlemen said he was not worried about when we had a chance to upgrade. I mean holy shit.
What do you think coaches do?????
My comment is not an indictment of the coach but on the talent evaluator in thinking this is the answer at RT, who could not beat out a has been football player.
Quote:
The injury thing is bullshit. The Giants gambled on going into this season with no depth on the OL and got burned badly by it.
If you can't properly evaluate Jones because Barkley, Golladay, Toney (who no one was pining for the first four weeks anyway), etc. are out, Jones is not the guy. No offense stays 100% healthy and if he needs all of them to be healthy and active to be successful, a. That's not realistic and b. He's not a franchise QB.
It wasn't just Golladay and Toney. Slayton and Shepard missed how many games? Collin Johnson is relied on and he's no more than a 5th. Ross is a bust. So you're relying then on CJ Board's of the world. The tight ends are underperforming, or misused. Depends on your opinion on the matter. Depth was an issue on the interior but the bigger problem has been OT sans Thomas.
Now, is DG to blame for putting trust into Peart? Suppose so, however, he did look good when healthy last year and bulked up. Solder beat him in camp and that that on the staff or front office. They didn't have way out on NS contract because of his opt out last year. It really screwed up the situation for getting rid of him for 2021.
People keep moving the goal posts on injuries. Before the season, no one said we can't evaluate Daniel Jones because K. Toney isn't active. He has two really solid games and gets hurt and now it's we can't evaluate Jones because Toney is injured.
The Giants needed WR help so what do they do? Sign an injury prone WR and hope that he has good health. When he doesn't, the 'we can't evaluate Jones' line pops up.
The three most injured teams in the league are 4-2 Titans, 5-1 Baltimore, and 5-1 Cowboys. Every single team has to overcome them.
But the point remains, if we can't properly evaluate Jones due to injuries, how are we ever going to be able to? Every year there will be key injuries that need to be overcome. So that's why I think it's unrealistic to ever assume that Jones will have a healthy cast around him. At some point he has to overcome them or the Giants need to move on.
The expectation was he would start, and hopefully improve as the year went on.
Granted, those of us on this message board are not experts, but that was the expectation.
I was puzzled he didn't beat out Solder. He looked better then Solder in limited appearences this year. He has looked ok overall.
Anyway, having faith that Peart could play was something every one had. front office, head coach, position coach, trainers, media, fans. I am really puzzled because he has looked better then solder when in this year.
Incidentally Rob Sale (or Garrett) said in the interviews today the sack on his first play was not his fault FWIW)
Improvement from Thomas, lemeiux, and Gates was generally expected bu everyone as well. The net result matters. The Oline is not great. again. but facts matter
also, the line has pass blocked far better then I would have expected based on who is playing. that is a credit to the OL coach(es) Run blocking is still not good, IMO