Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
The eras weren't that different.
And Eli had a vastly superior team (offense and defense) and coaching staff around him. But his detractors will never admit to that.
Those who say the Eli comparisons are not legit also amusingly ignore the fact that Eli was a losing quarterback (well under .500) during the second half of his career because he had the same surrounding talent issues that Daniel Jones now has.
Eli also had a lot of elements making it easier for him to perform -- better WRs, better RBs, and better RBs -- by a long stretch. He also had the same coach and system for the first three years. So while DJ benefits from playing in a league that makes it easier to pass, let's not act like almost every other variable weighs heavily in favor of Eli being able to succeed.
The changed in rules on the defensive side had not happened yet as well as the protections of QB's in the pocket.
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
Finding quarterbacks that were better than Eli was statistically in his early career is not all that hard. It's a near worthless predictor of future success.
on thanksgiving weekend in 2007 when he threw three or four picks (the year we won the super bowl) where people were still calling Eli a "Giant Mistake." That was Year 4/ And, a few weeks later, after a miserable game against Washington in terrible conditions, the same people were still coming after Eli. It is not fun to be a NY QB.
You might want to revisit Eli's win-loss record in his last few years here.
Again, I'm not saying Daniel Jones is the answer or not, but half of the Giants fan base was still demanding the Giants dump Eli in 2007, four years into his career.
I was off the Eli bandwagon after the Vikings game in his 4th season in '07. Eli also led the league in INTs in 2007.
Somehow the lightbulb flashed and he ascended to another level during the playoff run that year and the years after.
I get it, it's an easy comparison to make. But I just don't think it's very helpful to compare any young QB to Eli because he had a very unique trajectory and overall career. You can't count on Jones or a struggling young QB to have that kind of trajectory.
The changed in rules on the defensive side had not happened yet as well as the protections of QB's in the pocket.
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
Next year Daniel Jones is going to lead the Giants to a Super Bowl victory over the undefeated Chargers. The key play is going to be when he miraculously gets out of a sack and heaves the ball downfalls to Travis Toivonen, who catches the ball against his helmet.
You could still hit receivers in 04,05 and 06. Defense wasn't fully outlawed yet. It was a different era. Eli is of the generation of QB's that I feel played during the transition.
a quarterback that compares to Eli anyway? The Giants were only ever really dominant for a full season once during his tenure here. What separates Eli from other past Giants QB's was his ability to stay healthy and his magic in the playoffs. He was really only a top 5 QB one season.
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
The changed in rules on the defensive side had not happened yet as well as the protections of QB's in the pocket.
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
Was it a "different era" in 2017? 2018? 2019?
If not, then your argument holds no water.
Why are you ignoring the age difference though? Eli was 36-38 in those years usually way past a QB's prime. Jones on the other hand is 14 years younger beginning his stretch.
I was off the Eli bandwagon after the Vikings game in his 4th season in '07. Eli also led the league in INTs in 2007.
Somehow the lightbulb flashed and he ascended to another level during the playoff run that year and the years after.
I get it, it's an easy comparison to make. But I just don't think it's very helpful to compare any young QB to Eli because he had a very unique trajectory and overall career. You can't count on Jones or a struggling young QB to have that kind of trajectory.
I don't believe it's as much of a comparison as it is an example of how things can "click" and that not every QB is great right out of the gate or even within the first couple seasons.
of people saying the era Daniel Jones is playing in is different than the Eli era vs. the people saying that Eli's overall stats mean shit because Eli played in a pass-happy era
Eli was 9-26 his last 35 games with the Giants. Passed for 8809 yards with 46 TD's and 29 INTs. He was sacked 83 times. Outside of Daniels ability to run the stats are fairly similar.
The W/L records are similarly futile. What these discussions should make obvious is that the team surrounding your QB makes a difference. A crappy OL leads to losses.
Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
The eras weren't that different.
And Eli had a vastly superior team (offense and defense) and coaching staff around him. But his detractors will never admit to that.
Those who say the Eli comparisons are not legit also amusingly ignore the fact that Eli was a losing quarterback (well under .500) during the second half of his career because he had the same surrounding talent issues that Daniel Jones now has.
In 5 sentences you concisely gave the best summary of an issue that surfaces daily here on almost every thread. Really well done 👍
This is not hard guys. Jones is a good/solid QB if he has solid protection/weapons. Note that I didn't say GREAT protection/weapons; just a reasonable level of both. But due to poor roster management and an unbelievable amount of teammate injuries of his career, the Giants continue to set him up for failure.
a quarterback that compares to Eli anyway? The Giants were only ever really dominant for a full season once during his tenure here. What separates Eli from other past Giants QB's was his ability to stay healthy and his magic in the playoffs. He was really only a top 5 QB one season.
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
The fact you can win with good, not great, QB is what the takeaway should be.
You have to take Jones' stats with a grain of salt. Many of his stats have been accumulated in garbage time. He has had a lot of games where the Giants are down big and he's getting chunk yardage and meaningless TD's against a prevent defense.
because I do think people aren't really thinking anymore but just picking sides is this:
A couple of weeks ago Daniel wins "NFC Player of the Week" (second or third time he's won it) and his supporters are yelling "See, I told you he's a good one!"
Now he's coming off a 4-turnover game and his detractors are yelling, "See, I told you he's a bad one!"
Especially the OL. Eli had a superior team in terms of talent! Gettlemen needs to go and Garrett needs to hit the road!!! Make those two changes and things get infinitely better!
Especially the OL. Eli had a superior team in terms of talent! Gettlemen needs to go and Garrett needs to hit the road!!! Make those two changes and things get infinitely better!
He's good enough where you don't reach on a prospect for the sake of the future, but not good enough to totally keep other QB prospects out of the conversation come draft time. Good guy, hard worker, shows flashes. Not good enough to warrant keeping a new GM from choosing another guy he may be sold on.
was definitely a tougher/different era than 2019-2021.
2004 League Average Passing Stats: 3368 yards, 23 TD, 17 INT, 6.1 YPP
2005 League Average Passing Stats: 3255 yards, 20 TD, 15 INT, 5.9 YPP
2005 League Average Passing Stats: 3276 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT, 6.0 YPP
2019 League Average Passing Stats: 3759 yards, 25 TD, 13 INT, 6.3 YPP
2020 League Average Passing Stats: 3842 yards, 27 TD, 12 INT, 6.4 YPP
2021 League Average Passing Stats (Annualized): 3952 yards, 27 TD, 13 INT, 6.6 YPP
It's much easier to throw the ball now. Eli definitely had a better supporting cast, but the start of his career was in an era in which it was much harder to throw.
Do you really think Eli was "washed up" in 2017 and 2018?
I guess if you do, you have an argument.
But from my eyes, I saw yet another quarterback with a shitty offensive line and defense around him.
What about 2012-2015 then? Was Eli washed up then too?
I do think Eli was pretty washed up by then. Don't get me wrong the team around him didn't help and probably caused him to diminish a little quicker than he might have otherwise.
Definitely not as much in those later years but he was still getting into hid mid 30s at that time.
I don't think Jones is as bad as a lot make him out to be but when you take a QB #6 you have to elevate the offense around you and I just don't see it that often from Jones. Even before the 1st SB when ELi had a lot of stinkers he also threw in those games that he put the team on his back and got them a W. Jones has not done it once from what I recall except for maybe that first career game against TB!
There's just too many factors to directly compare then so I don't know what point the OP was trying to make but it holds no water.
He's good enough where you don't reach on a prospect for the sake of the future, but not good enough to totally keep other QB prospects out of the conversation come draft time. Good guy, hard worker, shows flashes. Not good enough to warrant keeping a new GM from choosing another guy he may be sold on.
Agree 100%. If they love a Corral or a Willis, go for it. Jones shouldn't hold them back. But if you don't love one of them, they are ok with Jones.
Are we talking about the first three years of each QB?
What I do remember about his first three years is he made many "wow" throws. Not talking about the deep balls (which he excelled at) but the intermediate deep balls based on anticipation and arm talent. Those type of throws eventually won SB's. Plax/Nicks back shoulder throws.
DB's were still allowed to hit. Remember ESPN's "jacked up' segment? Pollian successfully lobbied to change the DB's restrictions. Tom Brady's injury meant low hits were not tolerated. Eli and even more so the real old timers would have loved sitting in these pockets where rushers have to be overly concerned with roughing calls. The game is now totally geared to assisting the passing game.
If running is going to be a part of his game so be it. There is no doubt the organization has not provided him as well as he could. I just don't see a QB you invest a second contract with what he has shown. I would be willing to take that chance he stars elsewhere.
Are we talking about the first three years of each QB?
What I do remember about his first three years is he made many "wow" throws. Not talking about the deep balls (which he excelled at) but the intermediate deep balls based on anticipation and arm talent. Those type of throws eventually won SB's. Plax/Nicks back shoulder throws.
DB's were still allowed to hit. Remember ESPN's "jacked up' segment? Pollian successfully lobbied to change the DB's restrictions. Tom Brady's injury meant low hits were not tolerated. Eli and even more so the real old timers would have loved sitting in these pockets where rushers have to be overly concerned with roughing calls. The game is now totally geared to assisting the passing game.
If running is going to be a part of his game so be it. There is no doubt the organization has not provided him as well as he could. I just don't see a QB you invest a second contract with what he has shown. I would be willing to take that chance he stars elsewhere.
What is your plan for replacing him and when? You are OK with using a few #1 draft picks to replace him?
a quarterback that compares to Eli anyway? The Giants were only ever really dominant for a full season once during his tenure here. What separates Eli from other past Giants QB's was his ability to stay healthy and his magic in the playoffs. He was really only a top 5 QB one season.
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
The fact you can win with good, not great, QB is what the takeaway should be.
But should this be the bar for the Giants? Why not always be trying to get better at the most key position in sports?
Jones is a below average qb on a bad team? Is it so wrong to say that both are true? Jones isn't the worst starting qb in the league and he isn't in the top starting half of the league in terms of qbs. In his last 19 starts (not 20 because of the Cowboys) he's thrown 15td passes and has lead a minimally productive offense. Some of that - not all - is attributable to his largely below average play.
Taylor Heinicke has been a better qb this year than Daniel Jones, statistically and in the W/L column. Does anyone consider Taylor Heinicke the long term answer for WFT? If not, I am not sure how you confidently say a qb like Jones is the answer for the NYG.
for the key stat you mention above. Jones has twice as many fumbles as Eli did and lost as many fumbles as Eli had total. If Jones would clean that up, he wouldn't not get beaten up as much. The biggest issue I see with jones from my lay eye is, he has no pocket awareness and at times does not get through his progressions fast enough.
when evaluating Eli, stats are somewhat meaningless. He didn't have great stats throughout his whole career really. At his peak, he was absolute killer, a clutch QB who shined in the brightest moments. And that was from 2007-11. Basically - years 4 through 8. But even in those years, his "stats" were not that good. However, you'd be hard pressed to find 5 other QBs in the league you wanted over him, and hardly any you wanted over him when the game was on the line. But again, his stats weren't that good. They were middle of the road.
On the flipside with Jones, his "lows" have never been as low as Eli during his first 2+ years as a starter. He has gotten injured multiple times. He clearly does not have the same talent as Eli had, but clearly he has shown that he can be a really good quarterback. He was actually way better out of the gate and seemed to have a better feel for the position of NFL quarterback than Eli had during his first year. But - in large point - the team has absolutely sucked around him. Who has he had at receiver before this season? Who has been his stalwart at LT before this season?
Eli had one of the best offensive lines in football, arguably the best, during a 3-4 year stretch (2006-2010) and that matters.
Use the eye test. When watching games, do you think Daniel Jones can lead the Giants to a championship one day with the way he plays. Because it's not just the quarterback that does everything for you. When the Giants won the Super Bowl in 2008, the defense held one of the best teams in NFL history to 14 points.
DJ can't stay healthy and can't win more than 5 games into year 3...
Eli's career is one of a kind in many ways.
So what's the point?
Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
The eras weren't that different.
And Eli had a vastly superior team (offense and defense) and coaching staff around him. But his detractors will never admit to that.
Those who say the Eli comparisons are not legit also amusingly ignore the fact that Eli was a losing quarterback (well under .500) during the second half of his career because he had the same surrounding talent issues that Daniel Jones now has.
DJ has also improved year 3 vs year 1.
Eli also had a lot of elements making it easier for him to perform -- better WRs, better RBs, and better RBs -- by a long stretch. He also had the same coach and system for the first three years. So while DJ benefits from playing in a league that makes it easier to pass, let's not act like almost every other variable weighs heavily in favor of Eli being able to succeed.
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
49 TDs / 23 INTs
717 yards rushing 7 TDs
20 fumbles, 11 lost
49 TDs / 23 INTs
717 yards rushing 7 TDs
20 fumbles, 11 lost
Finding quarterbacks that were better than Eli was statistically in his early career is not all that hard. It's a near worthless predictor of future success.
You might want to revisit Eli's win-loss record in his last few years here.
Again, I'm not saying Daniel Jones is the answer or not, but half of the Giants fan base was still demanding the Giants dump Eli in 2007, four years into his career.
I was off the Eli bandwagon after the Vikings game in his 4th season in '07. Eli also led the league in INTs in 2007.
Somehow the lightbulb flashed and he ascended to another level during the playoff run that year and the years after.
I get it, it's an easy comparison to make. But I just don't think it's very helpful to compare any young QB to Eli because he had a very unique trajectory and overall career. You can't count on Jones or a struggling young QB to have that kind of trajectory.
700 yards rushing, 5 Tds
36 Tds / 22 Ints
17 fumbles, 7 lost
W/L 18-14
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
Was it a "different era" in 2017? 2018? 2019?
If not, then your argument holds no water.
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
51 TD's/41 INT's
782 yds rushing, 2 TD's
22 fumbles/7 lost
113 sacks!!!
Quote:
The changed in rules on the defensive side had not happened yet as well as the protections of QB's in the pocket.
The NFC East had two HOF coaches with a most likely third (AR with a Jim Johnson defense) in it and the NFC East was a much better division then.
I think Eli showed enough outstanding moments to just hope he would eventually eliminate some truly frustrating game(s). As we learned he would always maintain some low moments but...you learned to deal with it.
Eli also took every snap injured or not.
Do you ever say to yourself, "Boy, I can see Jones winning multiple big games in a row?" which is what it will take if you want a 5th trophy.
Was it a "different era" in 2017? 2018? 2019?
If not, then your argument holds no water.
Why are you ignoring the age difference though? Eli was 36-38 in those years usually way past a QB's prime. Jones on the other hand is 14 years younger beginning his stretch.
I was off the Eli bandwagon after the Vikings game in his 4th season in '07. Eli also led the league in INTs in 2007.
Somehow the lightbulb flashed and he ascended to another level during the playoff run that year and the years after.
I get it, it's an easy comparison to make. But I just don't think it's very helpful to compare any young QB to Eli because he had a very unique trajectory and overall career. You can't count on Jones or a struggling young QB to have that kind of trajectory.
I don't believe it's as much of a comparison as it is an example of how things can "click" and that not every QB is great right out of the gate or even within the first couple seasons.
The W/L records are similarly futile. What these discussions should make obvious is that the team surrounding your QB makes a difference. A crappy OL leads to losses.
The Giants ruined the beginning of DJ's career much like the end of ELi's.
The only way forward is to start over "for real" this time.
Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
The eras weren't that different.
And Eli had a vastly superior team (offense and defense) and coaching staff around him. But his detractors will never admit to that.
Those who say the Eli comparisons are not legit also amusingly ignore the fact that Eli was a losing quarterback (well under .500) during the second half of his career because he had the same surrounding talent issues that Daniel Jones now has.
In 5 sentences you concisely gave the best summary of an issue that surfaces daily here on almost every thread. Really well done 👍
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
The fact you can win with good, not great, QB is what the takeaway should be.
I guess if you do, you have an argument.
But from my eyes, I saw yet another quarterback with a shitty offensive line and defense around him.
What about 2012-2015 then? Was Eli washed up then too?
A couple of weeks ago Daniel wins "NFC Player of the Week" (second or third time he's won it) and his supporters are yelling "See, I told you he's a good one!"
Now he's coming off a 4-turnover game and his detractors are yelling, "See, I told you he's a bad one!"
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
I wish it were that simple...I don't think it is.
2004 League Average Passing Stats: 3368 yards, 23 TD, 17 INT, 6.1 YPP
2005 League Average Passing Stats: 3255 yards, 20 TD, 15 INT, 5.9 YPP
2005 League Average Passing Stats: 3276 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT, 6.0 YPP
2019 League Average Passing Stats: 3759 yards, 25 TD, 13 INT, 6.3 YPP
2020 League Average Passing Stats: 3842 yards, 27 TD, 12 INT, 6.4 YPP
2021 League Average Passing Stats (Annualized): 3952 yards, 27 TD, 13 INT, 6.6 YPP
It's much easier to throw the ball now. Eli definitely had a better supporting cast, but the start of his career was in an era in which it was much harder to throw.
Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
Along those same lines, who won the election?
I guess if you do, you have an argument.
But from my eyes, I saw yet another quarterback with a shitty offensive line and defense around him.
What about 2012-2015 then? Was Eli washed up then too?
I do think Eli was pretty washed up by then. Don't get me wrong the team around him didn't help and probably caused him to diminish a little quicker than he might have otherwise.
Definitely not as much in those later years but he was still getting into hid mid 30s at that time.
I don't think Jones is as bad as a lot make him out to be but when you take a QB #6 you have to elevate the offense around you and I just don't see it that often from Jones. Even before the 1st SB when ELi had a lot of stinkers he also threw in those games that he put the team on his back and got them a W. Jones has not done it once from what I recall except for maybe that first career game against TB!
There's just too many factors to directly compare then so I don't know what point the OP was trying to make but it holds no water.
Why are so many attached to Jones? I don’t get it. Shouldn’t our standards be higher?
Agree 100%. If they love a Corral or a Willis, go for it. Jones shouldn't hold them back. But if you don't love one of them, they are ok with Jones.
Quote:
there are pros and cons to Daniel Jones.
Both sides on this debate have dug in their heels and don't care about "facts" or "evidence."
Along those same lines, who won the election?
WTF does this have to do with politics?
What I do remember about his first three years is he made many "wow" throws. Not talking about the deep balls (which he excelled at) but the intermediate deep balls based on anticipation and arm talent. Those type of throws eventually won SB's. Plax/Nicks back shoulder throws.
DB's were still allowed to hit. Remember ESPN's "jacked up' segment? Pollian successfully lobbied to change the DB's restrictions. Tom Brady's injury meant low hits were not tolerated. Eli and even more so the real old timers would have loved sitting in these pockets where rushers have to be overly concerned with roughing calls. The game is now totally geared to assisting the passing game.
If running is going to be a part of his game so be it. There is no doubt the organization has not provided him as well as he could. I just don't see a QB you invest a second contract with what he has shown. I would be willing to take that chance he stars elsewhere.
What I do remember about his first three years is he made many "wow" throws. Not talking about the deep balls (which he excelled at) but the intermediate deep balls based on anticipation and arm talent. Those type of throws eventually won SB's. Plax/Nicks back shoulder throws.
DB's were still allowed to hit. Remember ESPN's "jacked up' segment? Pollian successfully lobbied to change the DB's restrictions. Tom Brady's injury meant low hits were not tolerated. Eli and even more so the real old timers would have loved sitting in these pockets where rushers have to be overly concerned with roughing calls. The game is now totally geared to assisting the passing game.
If running is going to be a part of his game so be it. There is no doubt the organization has not provided him as well as he could. I just don't see a QB you invest a second contract with what he has shown. I would be willing to take that chance he stars elsewhere.
What is your plan for replacing him and when? You are OK with using a few #1 draft picks to replace him?
Quote:
a quarterback that compares to Eli anyway? The Giants were only ever really dominant for a full season once during his tenure here. What separates Eli from other past Giants QB's was his ability to stay healthy and his magic in the playoffs. He was really only a top 5 QB one season.
I love Eli. We all do. But we love most his magical playoff runs and his ability to stay on the field. DJ doesn't have that yet. DJ stats are comparable to Eli Manning's regular season stats, which were about middle of the pack during his time here. Eli's legend was really born in the postseason, something DJ's Giants haven't done yet.
The fact you can win with good, not great, QB is what the takeaway should be.
But should this be the bar for the Giants? Why not always be trying to get better at the most key position in sports?
Taylor Heinicke has been a better qb this year than Daniel Jones, statistically and in the W/L column. Does anyone consider Taylor Heinicke the long term answer for WFT? If not, I am not sure how you confidently say a qb like Jones is the answer for the NYG.
On the flipside with Jones, his "lows" have never been as low as Eli during his first 2+ years as a starter. He has gotten injured multiple times. He clearly does not have the same talent as Eli had, but clearly he has shown that he can be a really good quarterback. He was actually way better out of the gate and seemed to have a better feel for the position of NFL quarterback than Eli had during his first year. But - in large point - the team has absolutely sucked around him. Who has he had at receiver before this season? Who has been his stalwart at LT before this season?
Eli had one of the best offensive lines in football, arguably the best, during a 3-4 year stretch (2006-2010) and that matters.
Use the eye test. When watching games, do you think Daniel Jones can lead the Giants to a championship one day with the way he plays. Because it's not just the quarterback that does everything for you. When the Giants won the Super Bowl in 2008, the defense held one of the best teams in NFL history to 14 points.