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Eli vs. DJ first 32 starts

CMicks3110 : 10/21/2021 1:32 pm
DJ & Eli first 32 starts in #NFLย 

๐ƒ๐š๐ง๐ข๐ž๐ฅ ๐‰๐จ๐ง๐ž๐ฌ
7,494yards
903 rushing 5 TD
39 TD / 26 INT
35 fumbles / 19 Lost
W/L (9-23)
95 sacks

๐„๐ฅ๐ข ๐Œ๐š๐ง๐ง๐ข๐ง๐ 
6,711 yards
117 rushing 1 TD
45TD / 37 INT
19 fumbles / 4 Lost
W/L (18-14)
59 sacks

#TogetherBlueย 
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.... ย 
BrettNYG10 : 10/22/2021 11:38 am : link
2005: 4th in yards, 3rd in points.
2006: 14th in yards, 11th in points.

2019: 23rd in yards, 19th in points.
2020: 31st in both

2005 and 2006 Eli was tied for fourth in TDs thrown. The production difference is huge.
RE: RE: different league ย 
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/22/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15424814 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 15423928 Enzo said:


Quote:


and they were vastly different prospects. Eli was taken #1 overall for a reason. Jones was never even in the conversation.



People make this argument and then complain about us not taking Josh Allen, Josh Allen was not seen by many as a 1st overall prospect either.


Forget even the pre-draft perception. Eli Manning was vastly, vastly better in college. More skilled, more productive, more results at the highest levels of college ball. Was easy to predict would be a professional QB. Josh Allen was not. Jones was not.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Jones debate ย 
Debaser : 10/22/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment [url=index.php?
Quote:

But your take on the subject lends some credence to the idea that some of the Jones bashing could be because he replaced Eli, I get that.


Yup keep digging in there. maybe when another 3 years pass we'll know who is right. But by then who care ? Enough time has passed....

One thing we know for sure is that we have nothing special in Jones, or Judge. That we know. Otherwise we would have seen something by now. Instead this season is pretty much shaping up like last season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Jones debate ย 
Debaser : 10/22/2021 12:48 pm : link

Quote:

I donโ€™t want to be vindicated from my stance on moving on from Eli, I believe I was correct

But your take on the subject lends some credence to the idea that some of the Jones bashing could be because he replaced Eli, I get that.


How are you correct anyway? How are you OK with what you are seeing on the field ; 3 years and counting?

Teams like the Colts or even the Giants under better management -- they didn't just move on from QBs and pay them 20 million under contract and pick a QB for the sake a GM making his mark and putting his big, dumb bloated ego ahead of the team.

THey moved on when they had a draft heavy QB class. Or they moved on from Peyton when they had a shot at drafting a prospect like Andrew Luck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Jones debate ย 
joeinpa : 10/22/2021 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15424945 Debaser said:
Quote:



Quote:



I donโ€™t want to be vindicated from my stance on moving on from Eli, I believe I was correct

But your take on the subject lends some credence to the idea that some of the Jones bashing could be because he replaced Eli, I get that.



How are you correct anyway? How are you OK with what you are seeing on the field ; 3 years and counting?

Teams like the Colts or even the Giants under better management -- they didn't just move on from QBs and pay them 20 million under contract and pick a QB for the sake a GM making his mark and putting his big, dumb bloated ego ahead of the team.

THey moved on when they had a draft heavy QB class. Or they moved on from Peyton when they had a shot at drafting a prospect like Andrew Luck.



It was obvious to me that the Giants were no longer going to win with Eli, time to move on. Maybe they picked the wrong guy because they waited a year too long to move on, thereby passing on Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.


Guess I m being dense but I donโ€™t see how the losing since El left is a vindication they should have kept Him, his last 3 seasons showed they could lose plenty with him


Bumpy ride ย 
Thegratefulhead : 10/22/2021 6:28 pm : link
The year Jones was drafted. He was the only QB that I did not want. I wanted someone with more pedigree, that had played more games against top competition. Someone that won more. Daniel Jones was drafted based on subjective analysis that with better players he would have better results. Another way to say this is that excuses were made for his subpar performances. It was blamed on the talent around him.

He won me over in his first professional game. So much pressure, replacing Eli and he killed it. His rookie year left me with confidence that it would probably be his worst year and he would get better. The talent around him wasn't great, the OL was piss poor and there were plenty of injuries. If felt reasonable to believe that he would get better. The turnovers did nag at me. His pocket awareness was concerning considering the amount of college starts.

His second year was far far far worse than I could have believed possible. I made many excuses for him because believing Jones is not the answer sets the franchise back at least 2 years from competing. It was reasonable to say new, coach, bad OL, new OC blah blah blah. I thought he was going to have a great 2021. Why? They got him a legit downfield threat in Golloday and a shifty guy in Toney. Jones was very accurate on tight window throws down the field. It seemed like a perfect match. There was a tiny problem with banking on that. He didn't throw down the field much. I was placing my belief on a very small sample size. I should have known better, but I wanted to believe Jones was the answer.

I don't need to recount 2021, it should be fresh in everyone's mind. Better stats, still not enough points. OK, he makes some pretty throws, he looks legit. I recently dug into his red zone performances over 3 years, even his rookie year that I liked, it was awful. There is a decent sample size of his red zone performance. I included reference in an earlier post in this thread. It is consistently bad over 3 years, bottom of the league.

In his last six years starting in college and the NFL he still has the same issues. We continue to be subjective in our analysis of him. He deserves all of 2021, but if he doesn't make it undeniable that he has the goods, we should move on. There is enormous amount objective evidence on Jones, I think we should lean more on that than the subjective.

When I look back on my entire outlook on Jones I feel that I was correct in my initial assessment. I changed my mind after his first game because I desperately wanted to believe Jones was the answer because I was so tired of losing. Jones too often seems overwhelmed by the game. I don't think he will be more than an average QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Jones debate ย 
Debaser : 10/22/2021 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15425053 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15424945 Debaser said:


Quote:





Quote:



I donโ€™t want to be vindicated from my stance on moving on from Eli, I believe I was correct

But your take on the subject lends some credence to the idea that some of the Jones bashing could be because he replaced Eli, I get that.



How are you correct anyway? How are you OK with what you are seeing on the field ; 3 years and counting?

Teams like the Colts or even the Giants under better management -- they didn't just move on from QBs and pay them 20 million under contract and pick a QB for the sake a GM making his mark and putting his big, dumb bloated ego ahead of the team.

THey moved on when they had a draft heavy QB class. Or they moved on from Peyton when they had a shot at drafting a prospect like Andrew Luck.




It was obvious to me that the Giants were no longer going to win with Eli, time to move on. Maybe they picked the wrong guy because they waited a year too long to move on, thereby passing on Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.


Guess I m being dense but I donโ€™t see how the losing since El left is a vindication they should have kept Him, his last 3 seasons showed they could lose plenty with him



They didnโ€™t โ€œpassโ€ on anybody on account of Eli. There is 0 evidence to suggest they drafted Barkley to โ€œhelpโ€ Eli. What have you seen from Gettleman to suggest that he wasnโ€™t just drafting the best player in his mind anyway at the given draft slot? Also there was a way to move on from Eli and there wasnโ€™t.

Cutting Eli in off season yes especially after drafting a josh Allen. Or keep him till week 10 if the season is hopeless bench him and put in allen. And what is the point of moving on from Eli for Daniel jones? You might as well have drafted quinton Nelson and free agent sign w Eli in win now mode
RE: Now compare Jones to Mitch Trubisky ย 
eclipz928 : 10/22/2021 7:38 pm : link
In comment 15424497 GMen72 said:
Quote:
Unless you want to make Jones look like an NFL starter.

Jones and Trubisky are actually fairly comparable:

Daniel Jones
7,494 yards
903 rushing 5 TD
39 TD / 26 INT
35 fumbles / 19 Lost
W/L (9-23)
95 sacks

Mitch Trubisky
6,624 yards
715 rushing 5 TD
36 TD / 22 INT
17 fumbles / 7 Lost
W/L (17-15)
72 sacks

Jones had more total offensive yards, but Trubisky had fewer turnovers - their respective win-loss records would seem to be a natural result of that difference.
I'm not going to sit here and say DJ is absolutely terrible ย 
Leg of Theismann : 10/22/2021 8:24 pm : link
He isn't. He has good and bad qualities and he is worthy of being a starter in the NFL and getting this chance he's getting. That said-- the thing I look at is him vs. his contemporaries. What "could've been." The Giants had the #2, #6 & #17, #4, and #11 picks in 2018-2021 under DG's tenure. DG chose to draft a QB in what has proven to be the weakest QB class out of all 4 of those years (aside from Kyler but he went #1), and not only that-- everyone knew he reached for Jones at #6. Hence-- the result we have seen is a guy who is decent, not great, which is exactly what you expect from a guy you reached for at #6 in a weak QB class. It seemed very obvious that DG drafted a QB because the time was right, not the player, which I don't think you should ever do. He felt obligated to take a QB at that point and hence it felt like he forced the pick. But you look at the QBs he's passed on the last 4 years and that's the measure that I'm going by to say: DG + DJ so far looks like a failed experiment RELATIVELY-speaking.

Not saying it's over though. The clock is ticking for him to improve and start winning games. Yeah he doesn't have a great team around him, but let's not act like he's playing flawless football and then the team is collapsing around him. He's done some God-awful things at times that have cost us ball games. Also, he's incredibly suspect in the red zone which is the part of the field where you win games. In part it's clearly because he's slow to process information and everything becomes more condensed and quicker in the red zone. If you can't score in the red zone you won't win games, and so far in DJ's career he's been a massive disappointment in the red zone.

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