Tweet from NY Giants Rush
Giants fans, let’s face it, this is rock bottom for the franchise. For the fifth season straight, the Giants are a mess of a team, and a complete embarrassment considering the Giants storied past.
Most fans can agree that Dave Gettleman is one of the main culprits of the Giants’ failures of late. Dave Gettleman is four seasons into his tenure as Giants General Manager. Since he started, the Giants have stagnated. Gettleman’s management is defined by poor talent evaluation, overpaying free agents, and a seemingly outdated approach to his work. Unless the Giants miraculously turn their 2021 team around, this will likely be Gettleman’s last year with the Giants.
Since Gettleman has failed to rebuild the Giants, we have to take a more granular look to determine what went wrong. Perhaps it is best to compare Gettleman’s failed rebuild of four years, to Giants former General Manager George Young’s first four years.
George Young was a suggested hire for the Giants by then NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle. Young had previously worked in the Baltimore Colts & Miami Dolphins front offices and came to the Giants in 1979. The Giants were absolutely atrocious in the 1970s. George Young took the team and turned them into one of the most dominant franchises in the league for the next decade. George Young went on to win two Super Bowls and was named the NFL Executive of the Year…FIVE times. To say the least, George Young succeeded in rebuilding the Giants.
How To Rebuild (The Main Ingredient)
The most important ingredient for a successful rebuild is hitting on draft picks. Let’s compare George Young and Dave Gettleman’s draft decisions, through four seasons each.
Drafting with George Young
George Young’s first pick in 1979 was Phil Simms, their future franchise quarterback. Drafting a quarterback to an unstable team is a huge risk, and undoubtedly Simms had his fair share of injuries early on. Nonetheless, the Giants secured their franchise QB for the next decade. In 1980, the Young landed Cornerback Mark Haynes. Despite not being on the Super Bowl teams, Haynes played a crucial role in the seasons leading up to the 1986 Super Bowl-winning team. He went to the Pro Bowl 3x as a Giant.
Then came 1981, and Young hit a “Grand Slam” with Lawrence Taylor, the best defensive player in NFL history. Within just three seasons, Young drafted a franchise quarterback, an elite pass rusher, and a shut-down cornerback. Those positions, along with left tackle, are generally regarded as the most important for a football team. Along with those first-round picks, Young also succeeded in drafting and signing under-the-radar talent like Bill Ard, Joe Morris, and Jim Burt, all acquired in the first four seasons under Young’s reign. Young built a foundation for the Giants’ future success with the 1979-1982 NFL drafts.
Drafting with Dave Gettleman
To start his team’s rebuild in 2018, Dave Gettleman drafted running back Saquon Barkley. The move was slightly controversial at the time since the value of a star running back has been declining over the past 20 years. Fears of injury, unfortunately, came true, as Saquon has not had a healthy season since his rookie year. In 2019, Gettleman had three first-round selections. The first was Quarterback Daniel Jones. Although Jones has not proven to be the franchise QB, I will give Gettleman credit, because Jones surpassed most fans’ expectations. However, drafting the best quarterback in a draft class is not an accomplishment. Although Jones was better than Haskins, Jones is in year three and is not playing consistent enough football. For now, Gettleman has failed to find the franchise quarterback.
The next two picks in 2019 were defensive end Dexter Lawrence, and Cornerback Deandre Baker. Dexter Lawrence is not nearly the impact player the Giants need, and Deandre Baker faced legal trouble the following year, resulting in a release after just one season with the Giants. Gettleman’s 2020 pick Andrew Thomas has been successful, and 2021 pick Kodarius Toney is starting to look more promising. That said, the biggest failure by Gettleman over these four draft classes is completely missing on mid-round and late-round talent. Players like Lorenzo Carter and Oshane Ximines have only ever shown signs of potential, but never consistently played good football every week.
In essence, George Young built a solid team through his first four years of drafting with the Giants. His success can be contributed to identifying talent in the mid-rounds, understanding positional value, and always going for impact players. Gettleman has not drafted a single Pro Bowler past round 1 and has drafted players with “upside” over guys who dominate at the line of scrimmage.
What does this all mean?
It’s very simple. The Giants need to hire from the outside for their next General Manager with VP, and assistant level personnel of NFL franchises that have successfully rebuilt in the past ten years. Secondly, the Giants need personnel from NFL teams that consistently draft solid talent, and have a history of contending.
In 1979, the Giants left rock bottom by hiring George Young. In 2022, the Giants must look to do the same thing, or they will be trapped in the trenches for years to come.
Building the Giants: The Difference Between Young and Gettleman - (
New Window )
Comparing Young to Gettleman is like comparing ice cream to dog shit. Gettleman has taken 2 organizations backwards.
Here Young's top draft picks
1979
1 Simms - Hit but he really didn't establish himself until 1984.
2 Ernest Gray - Tossup. Showed promise and had a very good year in 1983 (year 5 - we aren't there yet) but by the time the Giants got really good, he was gone. His worst year was 1981 when they made the playoffs.
1980
1 Mark Haynes - Hit. Trading him netted contributors to the Super Bowl teams.
3 Myron Lapka
1981
1 Taylor - HIT!!
2 Dave Young - Miss
3 John Mistler
1982
1 Butch Wolfolk - Miss. Showed promise as a rookie, got hurt and was gone pretty quickly.
2. Joe Morris - Hit. Key contributor to the 1st Super Bowl team and had some very solid years.
1983 was really the year they started drafting much better. Kinard, Marshall, Nelson and Williams were all starters for the Super Bowl and Marshall/Williams started on both. Throw in some key backups in Headen/Jones. Belcher's career was promising but cut short by injuries.
They continued better drafting in 1984 and did very well with USFL acquisitions.
It was also a very different era - before free agency.
Current players from the Reese regime-
Engram and Sheppard. One can make the argument that Gettleman can be blamed for extending Sheppards contract and tendering Engram this year but the talent cupboard was pretty barren.
2. I thank Coach Perkins for the foundation. The instilling of toughness. The great staff. His departure led to Parcells. Not sure the Giants rise to the heights they did under him. George Young wanted to replace him after year 1 with Schellenberger. I believe Parcells was the right coach and only coach for those 80’s Giants.
Simms didn't sit for 3-4 years. He was named the starting quarterback in his rookie year, but was injured. Injuries prevented him from becoming the starter from day one, not lack of ability.
2. I thank Coach Perkins for the foundation. The instilling of toughness. The great staff. His departure led to Parcells. Not sure the Giants rise to the heights they did under him. George Young wanted to replace him after year 1 with Schellenberger. I believe Parcells was the right coach and only coach for those 80’s Giants.
It was more than luck. Young hit on almost every year. For example, in 1984 he drafted Carl Banks, the best linebacker available, William Roberts, the best offensive lineman, Jeff Hostletler, a very talented quarterback, Gary Reasons, a very good linebacker, and Lionel Manuel, a terrific receiver until he got hurt. Not bad for one draft and fairly typical of Young's ability to spot talent.
Simms was a great pick but hardly world beater at a comparable time in his career to Jones (nor was Eli for that matter).
Young inherited a decent D and was able to add an incredible player in LT. He was the second pick in the draft. (We're SO lucky that the Saints drafted a RB in front of him.)
Speaking of which, that is a key flaw in DG. I love SB but never thought a RB was a great use of a high pick. It's the easiest position to translate from college to pro, too often hurt, and the difference between a great one and a good one isn't that big.
What DG has done is undervalued pass rushers. We invested so much in DBs but we can't protect them by rushing the passer well enough.
As I keep saying, the cost of entry to being good in the NFL is controlling the line of scrimmage. We can't on either side of the ball. Until we can, our skill players cannot flourish.
Young was not perfect but he found players in almost every draft, including Simms, LT, Joe Morris, Leonard Marshall, Carl Banks, Hostetler, Pepper Johnson, Howard Cross, Rodney Hampton, Mike Strahan, Keith Hamilton, Jesse Armstead, Toomer, Tiki Barber, and Ike Hilliard.
From my POV, Gettleman has missed a lot on his picks, traded away assets/players for pennies on the dollar and spent on older FAs in a haphazard fashion. He is worse than Reese in my opinion b/c even when Reese ignored glaring holes on the roster he still found impact players in almost every draft. Other than Barkley (who is an entire different discussion) DG has mostly picked JAGs that would be backups on other teams. Giants are bottom of the barrel team due to his incompetence in talent evaluation, drafting and cap management. The sooner he is on a bus to Cape Cod the happier we will all be as a Giants fans.
You must be to young to remember the 70's?
You must be to young to remember the 70's?
I remember. This 2017-2021 run is pretty close.
You must be to young to remember the 70's?
The difference is that the NFL in the 1970's wasn't built for parity. It actually favored dynasties because there was no salary cap and no free agency. The good teams could stay good for a very long time which made it more difficult for the bad teams to rebuild quickly.
The current NFL is set up to favor quick recoveries and market dynamics that basically push every team toward .500, which is why a true superstar QB is such a huge piece of the puzzle. They alone can elevate an otherwise ordinary roster to contender status.
Of course, once you've found that QB, you also need to have an astute scouting staff that can keep refilling your talent pipeline via the draft, because those star QBs aren't cheap, so you're always going to need to have affordable players making strong contributions to your team.
It takes a really strong commitment to incompetence to stay bad for an extended stretch in the current NFL.
Young's best pick was Simms -- BY FAR. Followed by Bavaro. Young's crew couldn't identify a #1 WR to save their lives. He also took Gary Zimmerman over Reggie White, which likely cost the Giants a couple more SBs. And then he couldn't keep Zimmerman. But unlike DG, (and to a certain extent EA and JR) Young's crew COULD ID offensive linemen in the draft. EA and JR mostly liked to build their OL through FA.
Again, though, this entire comparison is meaningless.
Young's best pick was Simms -- BY FAR. Followed by Bavaro. Young's crew couldn't identify a #1 WR to save their lives. He also took Gary Zimmerman over Reggie White, which likely cost the Giants a couple more SBs. And then he couldn't keep Zimmerman. But unlike DG, (and to a certain extent EA and JR) Young's crew COULD ID offensive linemen in the draft. EA and JR mostly liked to build their OL through FA.
My mind is just boggled at what the Giants would have been like with Reggie White on the roster, with a pass rush of George Martin, White, Leonard Marshall, and LT.
Well, the Giants did succeed in making a really good pass rush to combat the passing game... for a few years. Then they never bothered to replace good parts for the system.
Quote:
You must be to young to remember the 70's?
I remember. This 2017-2021 run is pretty close.
Dude - this is 4 years. The "70's was from 68(?) to about 81? Fans were burning their season tickets in the parking lot. Somebody with money hired a airplane to fly over Giant's stadium with a banner that said something like "15 years of lousy football .... " This past 4-5 years isn't even close to how bad it was in the 70's imo.
Quote:
You must be to young to remember the 70's?
The difference is that the NFL in the 1970's wasn't built for parity. It actually favored dynasties because there was no salary cap and no free agency. The good teams could stay good for a very long time which made it more difficult for the bad teams to rebuild quickly.
The current NFL is set up to favor quick recoveries and market dynamics that basically push every team toward .500, which is why a true superstar QB is such a huge piece of the puzzle. They alone can elevate an otherwise ordinary roster to contender status.
Of course, once you've found that QB, you also need to have an astute scouting staff that can keep refilling your talent pipeline via the draft, because those star QBs aren't cheap, so you're always going to need to have affordable players making strong contributions to your team.
It takes a really strong commitment to incompetence to stay bad for an extended stretch in the current NFL.
Gatorade - agree with everything you but, we were so bad back then (I guess it doesn't make a difference really) because of 1 reason. Tim Mara (Wellington's nephew) and Wellington Mara hated each other so bad, so much .... they couldn't even stand to be in the same room together and they were the "co-general managers". Finally the league (Rozelle) told them they were in the biggest market in the country and they were an embarassment. Rozelle forced them to hire a real general manager which ended up being George Young.