How some can't have a conversation about any topic without making a political point. Then call others, "Buttercup". Sick burn.
Don't point a gun at anyone you don't intend on killing? So, we should no longer make films involving guns/violence in a country where there are 20,000 gun homicides annually in the US? In an art medium that reflects life?
Perhaps we should replace all firearms in films with #2 pencils, so that gun enthusiasts can utilize a tool with applications other than killing/maiming.
It's the same people ruining all of these threads.
its because of the one pandemic that has plagued this world before Covid. Its called lack of common sense.
W. Earl Brown explains the procedures movie armorers have used ever since The Crow. If those rules are followed, this doesn't happen. Someone handed Baldwin a weapon that he expected to be safe because of these procedures, but it wasn't because the procedures weren't followed.
As producer, he may well be sued as a result, but he isn't going to face any criminal charges.
RE: RE: RE: key questions I have based on that report
If it was a BL situation (live round dislodged while shooting blanks), then obviously no criminal liability (except perhaps on the part of the expert in charge of the weapon)
Did Alec Baldwin bang your girlfriend or something? We've got one person dead, one injured, and another (Baldwin) whose life is forever damaged - sounds like plenty of suffering already.
That's a pretty grotesque question. Though many of these Hollywood types do rape and sexually assault women, no, Alec Baldwin did not rape my girlfriend, as I don't have one. I am married, and no, Alec Baldwin did not rape my wife. Thanks for asking this ridiculous question which has nothing to do with anything.
Man alive, you may want to step away from the keyboard and take a breath…
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First rule of having a firearm
never point a gun at someone you don’t intend to kill. But please Hollywood. Continue to lecture the rest of us about the proper use of firearms.
Funny that you start your post with a lecture about the proper use of firearms.
I actually know how to properly use firearms. It is a universal axiom of firearms that you don't point them at anyone you don't intend to kill. It really is not that hard to comprehend.
Honestly, you sound like a fool. Weapons on set are supposed to be modified so that they are virtually non-lethal and can be fired around people, under supervision, safely. They're not just taking a weapon out of your locker and firing it. You may know a lot about firearms, but you know absolutely nothing about firearm props on movie sets. Your comments are ignorant.
My comments are not remotely out of ignorance. I am military trained, seven years in, and a combat veteran. Again, any weapon (whether blank, live, etc.) should be treated as if it could kill. You do not point any weapon at another human being unless you intend to kill them. You may allege my advice is foolish, but if my advice was followed, there would not have been a death here.
This is stupid. For a century of moviemaking, actors have pointed guns at each other. There has been, what? 3 incidents?
I don't know how many incidents but I guess you can comfort the husband and children with this who have lost a wife and mother.
Clearly protocols were not followed. There should only be one standard. Zero tolerance. This is not a mistake. It is simply gross negligence.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First rule of having a firearm
never point a gun at someone you don’t intend to kill. But please Hollywood. Continue to lecture the rest of us about the proper use of firearms.
Funny that you start your post with a lecture about the proper use of firearms.
I actually know how to properly use firearms. It is a universal axiom of firearms that you don't point them at anyone you don't intend to kill. It really is not that hard to comprehend.
Honestly, you sound like a fool. Weapons on set are supposed to be modified so that they are virtually non-lethal and can be fired around people, under supervision, safely. They're not just taking a weapon out of your locker and firing it. You may know a lot about firearms, but you know absolutely nothing about firearm props on movie sets. Your comments are ignorant.
My comments are not remotely out of ignorance. I am military trained, seven years in, and a combat veteran. Again, any weapon (whether blank, live, etc.) should be treated as if it could kill. You do not point any weapon at another human being unless you intend to kill them. You may allege my advice is foolish, but if my advice was followed, there would not have been a death here.
This is stupid. For a century of moviemaking, actors have pointed guns at each other. There has been, what? 3 incidents?
I don't know how many incidents but I guess you can comfort the husband and children with this who have lost a wife and mother.
Clearly protocols were not followed. There should only be one standard. Zero tolerance. This is not a mistake. It is simply gross negligence.
My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
W. Earl Brown explains the procedures movie armorers have used ever since The Crow. If those rules are followed, this doesn't happen. Someone handed Baldwin a weapon that he expected to be safe because of these procedures, but it wasn't because the procedures weren't followed.
As producer, he may well be sued as a result, but he isn't going to face any criminal charges.
Yes, but it should be noted there were good safety protocols at the time of The Crow as well but due to a confluence of careless mistakes that tragedy happened.
On March 31, 1993, at EUE Screen Gems Studios in Wilmington, North Carolina, Lee was filming a scene where his character, Eric, is shot after witnessing the beating and rape of his fiancée. Actor Michael Massee's character Funboy fires a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson Model 629 revolver at Lee as he walks into the room.[5] A previous scene using the same gun had called for inert dummy cartridges fitted with bullets, but no powder or primer, to be loaded in the revolver. For close-up scenes that use a revolver, where the bullets are clearly visible from the front, and do not require the gun to actually be fired, dummy cartridges provide a more realistic appearance than blank rounds, which have no bullet. Instead of purchasing commercial dummy cartridges, the film's prop crew, hampered by time constraints, created their own by pulling the bullets from live rounds, dumping the powder charge, then reinserting the bullets.[6][7] However, they unknowingly left the live primer in place at the rear of the cartridge. At some point during filming, the revolver was apparently discharged with one of these improperly-deactivated cartridges in the chamber, setting off the primer with enough force to drive the bullet partway into the barrel, where it became stuck (a condition known as a squib load). The prop crew either failed to notice or failed to recognize the significance of this issue.
In the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be actually fired at Lee from a distance of 12–15 feet, the dummy cartridges were exchanged for blank rounds, which feature a live powder charge and primer, but no bullet, thus allowing the gun to be fired without the risk of an actual projectile. As the production company had sent the firearms specialist home early, responsibility for the guns was given to a prop assistant who was not aware of the rule for checking all firearms before and after any handling. Therefore, the barrel was not checked for obstructions when it came time to load it with the blank rounds.[6][7] Since the bullet from the dummy round was already trapped in the barrel, this caused the .44 Magnum bullet to be fired out of the barrel with virtually the same force as if the gun had been loaded with a live round, and it struck Lee in the abdomen, mortally wounding him.[8][9] He was rushed to the New Hanover Regional Medical Center in Wilmington, where he underwent six hours of surgery. However, attempts to save him were unsuccessful, and Lee was pronounced dead at 1:03 pm EST on March 31, 1993, at the age of 28. The shooting was ruled an accident.
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
It is his job to point the deactivated gun and shoot where he is told. it is an incredibly obtuse position to lay blame on an actor for firing a prop gun on a movie set.
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
Maybe he wasn’t pointing it at another actor and there happened to be a lot of people congregating behind the camera where the gun was pointed. I would lay blame on whomever was responsible for sourcing and handing Baldwin the prop not the actor.
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
for sure there are safety protocols. But tragedies happen in spite of protocols. Look at the Brandan Lee example I posted above.
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
There already IS a series of protocols in place as outlined by the link Greg posted. Someone fucked up.
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
I never said anything about jail for Baldwin or anyone else. I do not like calling something a "accident" if protocols that were in place that were not followed. If that is a accident to you so be it.
The DP and Director might be close to the camera. They might not be. It has been reported it was during a rehearsal. On smaller films the DP definitely looks through the camera. If it's a rehearsal they might be right on set. Perhaps they were discussing something huddled together and the gun fired accidentally. we have to wait until the investigation is complete.
But no matter which scenario it is, there is no chance Baldwin is carrying a prop gun that he thinks has live ammo. Period. The mistake(s) is made somewhere before the gun hits his hand. And I have been on a variety of different sets across 30+ years.
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
I never said anything about jail for Baldwin or anyone else. I do not like calling something a "accident" if protocols that were in place that were not followed. If that is a accident to you so be it.
People make mistakes. We're human. Sometimes mistakes cost lives. It's tragic. There will be consequences. Who wants to hire the firearms prop guy who got somebody killed? Who wants to live with the guilt of failing to prep a gun properly that killed another person? There will be consequences.
RE: RE: Just more speculation and pot stirring BUT
1) Don’t trust what you read on Twitter
2) Don’t trust people named “boompolesandbarbells”
3) No one has said that live ammunition was involved
There are many variables on how this tragedy could have happened. Pointing fingers before we know any details at all is pointless and reckless.
Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
Making a joke/making it political less than 24 hours after someone loses their life. Stay classy, Adam
My bad. It wasn't meant to be political. But it is a bad joke. I tend to use humor when I hear horrible stories to cope. I'll edit that better on here in the future.
RE: RE: RE: Just more speculation and pot stirring BUT
Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
Point is we don’t have any details. A lot of things could have happened. There are numerous ways people out of the line of fire could have been hit. Some kind of shrapnel could have inadvertently gotten into the muzzle. It would have flow off in unpredictable directions when a blank was discharged. Or maybe the gun had a barrel lining that broke apart and sent shrapnel flying. Or a piece of equipment was hit and broke apart sending shrapnel flying. Who knows? Too many variables and no info yet.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Just more speculation and pot stirring BUT
Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
Point is we don’t have any details. A lot of things could have happened. There are numerous ways people out of the line of fire could have been hit. Some kind of shrapnel could have inadvertently gotten into the muzzle. It would have flow off in unpredictable directions when a blank was discharged. Or maybe the gun had a barrel lining that broke apart and sent shrapnel flying. Or a piece of equipment was hit and broke apart sending shrapnel flying. Who knows? Too many variables and no info yet.
yes probably. The most likely scenario is a variation of the Brandan Lee episode which I quoted some detail above. Something in the barrel and failure to inspect properly. But it could be something else for sure.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First rule of having a firearm
production's propmaster was not a member of Local 44, IndieWire reported."
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand? Link - ( New Window )
If the gun did contain a live round (or something that could serve as a projectile when fired), then it's a virtual certainty that it wasn't inspected beforehand.
production's propmaster was not a member of Local 44, IndieWire reported."
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand? Link - ( New Window )
On a movie set blanks are referred to as “live” rounds. That may be what he’s referring to. He wasn’t there so I don’t think he’s relaying info specific to this event.
The last one, as a matter of fact: ""The Case of the Final Fade Out" (May 22, 1966). That involved a Movie Star murdered by a prop gun. It was re-done a a TV Movie in 1986, and you can see the TV movie on Youtube (see link below)
The last one, as a matter of fact: ""The Case of the Final Fade Out" (May 22, 1966). That involved a Movie Star murdered by a prop gun. It was re-done a a TV Movie in 1986, and you can see the TV movie on Youtube (see link below)
"The Case of the Shooting Star"
John, that's what this horror reminds me of, an outrageous and improbable tv script that I would ridicule. It's just hard for me to believe this (I'm not suggesting I doubt the truth of it). It just seems like one more crazy case of life imitating art.
Affidavit says assistant director indicated he gave Alec Baldwin a
along with repeated unintended discharges and lack of follow up. Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
Take the source for what it’s worth, but they are reporting that the gun Baldwin used was taken offset by crew members and used for target practice with live ammunition. Would go a long way to explaining this tragedy if accurate.
Take the source for what it’s worth, but they are reporting that the gun Baldwin used was taken offset by crew members and used for target practice with live ammunition. Would go a long way to explaining this tragedy if accurate. Gun That Killed DP ... ALLEGEDLY USED FOR OFF-SET TARGET PRACTICE - ( New Window )
What the... I mean, that just sounds like it shouldn't be possible on a number of levels.
Apparently Baldwin was previously reckless with the guns
And the AD pretty much didn't follow any of the protocols regarding the firearms.
It was a disaster in the making and unfortunately someone died as a result.
Where are you seeing that about Baldwin? Stories I’ve read had quotes from crew saying he was very careful with weapons.
Yea, I haven't heard anything like this, just the opposite in face. It doesn't even appear Baldwin pulled the trigger. This particular gun was misfiring all week.
Don't point a gun at anyone you don't intend on killing? So, we should no longer make films involving guns/violence in a country where there are 20,000 gun homicides annually in the US? In an art medium that reflects life?
Perhaps we should replace all firearms in films with #2 pencils, so that gun enthusiasts can utilize a tool with applications other than killing/maiming.
It's the same people ruining all of these threads.
its because of the one pandemic that has plagued this world before Covid. Its called lack of common sense.
As producer, he may well be sued as a result, but he isn't going to face any criminal charges.
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In comment 15424847 KDavies said:
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If it was a BL situation (live round dislodged while shooting blanks), then obviously no criminal liability (except perhaps on the part of the expert in charge of the weapon)
Did Alec Baldwin bang your girlfriend or something? We've got one person dead, one injured, and another (Baldwin) whose life is forever damaged - sounds like plenty of suffering already.
That's a pretty grotesque question. Though many of these Hollywood types do rape and sexually assault women, no, Alec Baldwin did not rape my girlfriend, as I don't have one. I am married, and no, Alec Baldwin did not rape my wife. Thanks for asking this ridiculous question which has nothing to do with anything.
Man alive, you may want to step away from the keyboard and take a breath…
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In comment 15424726 Producer said:
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In comment 15424720 KDavies said:
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In comment 15424711 sb from NYT Forum said:
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In comment 15424549 KDavies said:
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never point a gun at someone you don’t intend to kill. But please Hollywood. Continue to lecture the rest of us about the proper use of firearms.
Funny that you start your post with a lecture about the proper use of firearms.
I actually know how to properly use firearms. It is a universal axiom of firearms that you don't point them at anyone you don't intend to kill. It really is not that hard to comprehend.
Honestly, you sound like a fool. Weapons on set are supposed to be modified so that they are virtually non-lethal and can be fired around people, under supervision, safely. They're not just taking a weapon out of your locker and firing it. You may know a lot about firearms, but you know absolutely nothing about firearm props on movie sets. Your comments are ignorant.
My comments are not remotely out of ignorance. I am military trained, seven years in, and a combat veteran. Again, any weapon (whether blank, live, etc.) should be treated as if it could kill. You do not point any weapon at another human being unless you intend to kill them. You may allege my advice is foolish, but if my advice was followed, there would not have been a death here.
This is stupid. For a century of moviemaking, actors have pointed guns at each other. There has been, what? 3 incidents?
I don't know how many incidents but I guess you can comfort the husband and children with this who have lost a wife and mother.
Clearly protocols were not followed. There should only be one standard. Zero tolerance. This is not a mistake. It is simply gross negligence.
Quote:
In comment 15424749 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15424726 Producer said:
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In comment 15424720 KDavies said:
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In comment 15424711 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 15424549 KDavies said:
Quote:
never point a gun at someone you don’t intend to kill. But please Hollywood. Continue to lecture the rest of us about the proper use of firearms.
Funny that you start your post with a lecture about the proper use of firearms.
I actually know how to properly use firearms. It is a universal axiom of firearms that you don't point them at anyone you don't intend to kill. It really is not that hard to comprehend.
Honestly, you sound like a fool. Weapons on set are supposed to be modified so that they are virtually non-lethal and can be fired around people, under supervision, safely. They're not just taking a weapon out of your locker and firing it. You may know a lot about firearms, but you know absolutely nothing about firearm props on movie sets. Your comments are ignorant.
My comments are not remotely out of ignorance. I am military trained, seven years in, and a combat veteran. Again, any weapon (whether blank, live, etc.) should be treated as if it could kill. You do not point any weapon at another human being unless you intend to kill them. You may allege my advice is foolish, but if my advice was followed, there would not have been a death here.
This is stupid. For a century of moviemaking, actors have pointed guns at each other. There has been, what? 3 incidents?
I don't know how many incidents but I guess you can comfort the husband and children with this who have lost a wife and mother.
Clearly protocols were not followed. There should only be one standard. Zero tolerance. This is not a mistake. It is simply gross negligence.
My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
CiP is rounding third...
Quote:
My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
CiP is rounding third...
I think he ran into the wall a few too many times.
As producer, he may well be sued as a result, but he isn't going to face any criminal charges.
Yes, but it should be noted there were good safety protocols at the time of The Crow as well but due to a confluence of careless mistakes that tragedy happened.
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Quote:
My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
CiP is rounding third...
Safe at home?
In the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be actually fired at Lee from a distance of 12–15 feet, the dummy cartridges were exchanged for blank rounds, which feature a live powder charge and primer, but no bullet, thus allowing the gun to be fired without the risk of an actual projectile. As the production company had sent the firearms specialist home early, responsibility for the guns was given to a prop assistant who was not aware of the rule for checking all firearms before and after any handling. Therefore, the barrel was not checked for obstructions when it came time to load it with the blank rounds.[6][7] Since the bullet from the dummy round was already trapped in the barrel, this caused the .44 Magnum bullet to be fired out of the barrel with virtually the same force as if the gun had been loaded with a live round, and it struck Lee in the abdomen, mortally wounding him.[8][9] He was rushed to the New Hanover Regional Medical Center in Wilmington, where he underwent six hours of surgery. However, attempts to save him were unsuccessful, and Lee was pronounced dead at 1:03 pm EST on March 31, 1993, at the age of 28. The shooting was ruled an accident.
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
Quote:
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
It is his job to point the deactivated gun and shoot where he is told. it is an incredibly obtuse position to lay blame on an actor for firing a prop gun on a movie set.
Quote:
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
Quote:
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
for sure there are safety protocols. But tragedies happen in spite of protocols. Look at the Brandan Lee example I posted above.
Quote:
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
I did not say anything in regards to Baldwin. Simply said when you are dealing with any type of weapon whether you have live or blank rounds involved there should be no expectation that a "accident can happen". You should have a series of protocols and safety briefs in place. Now you have to investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for that. It is pretty simple.
In your example with brakes, I surely would hope that you have several checkpoints to follow to ensure safety after coming off a production line.
There already IS a series of protocols in place as outlined by the link Greg posted. Someone fucked up.
Quote:
Do you want to prosecute Alec Baldwin for firing a gun he assumed was safely prepped by the prop master or armorer?
That would be like prosecuting the driver of a car that had faulty brakes from the production line.
Even if someone preparing the gun made a mistake, Baldwin should have never aimed the gun at anyone.
Stick to your morals then and never, ever watch a movie or television show with a gun pointed at someone.
So incredibly fucking stupid, lol.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
Any film folks want to chime in?
Quote:
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
I never said anything about jail for Baldwin or anyone else. I do not like calling something a "accident" if protocols that were in place that were not followed. If that is a accident to you so be it.
But no matter which scenario it is, there is no chance Baldwin is carrying a prop gun that he thinks has live ammo. Period. The mistake(s) is made somewhere before the gun hits his hand. And I have been on a variety of different sets across 30+ years.
Any film folks want to chime in?
Sure.
1) Don’t trust what you read on Twitter
2) Don’t trust people named “boompolesandbarbells”
3) No one has said that live ammunition was involved
There are many variables on how this tragedy could have happened. Pointing fingers before we know any details at all is pointless and reckless.
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In comment 15425093 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
that are not followed that results in a life lost that is not a accident. It is gross negligence. I guess some think it is okay to tell those kids who just lost a mother it was a accident.
You want to throw everybody who makes a mistake that costs a life in jail? Aren't our jails already full enough? Making a mistake that results in a death isn't necessarily manslaughter. You need some legal predicate.
I never said anything about jail for Baldwin or anyone else. I do not like calling something a "accident" if protocols that were in place that were not followed. If that is a accident to you so be it.
People make mistakes. We're human. Sometimes mistakes cost lives. It's tragic. There will be consequences. Who wants to hire the firearms prop guy who got somebody killed? Who wants to live with the guilt of failing to prep a gun properly that killed another person? There will be consequences.
Sure.
1) Don’t trust what you read on Twitter
2) Don’t trust people named “boompolesandbarbells”
3) No one has said that live ammunition was involved
There are many variables on how this tragedy could have happened. Pointing fingers before we know any details at all is pointless and reckless.
Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
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In comment 15424502 thrunthrublue said:
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Director of photography……also shot the director!
#TimesUp
Making a joke/making it political less than 24 hours after someone loses their life. Stay classy, Adam
My bad. It wasn't meant to be political. But it is a bad joke. I tend to use humor when I hear horrible stories to cope. I'll edit that better on here in the future.
Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
Point is we don’t have any details. A lot of things could have happened. There are numerous ways people out of the line of fire could have been hit. Some kind of shrapnel could have inadvertently gotten into the muzzle. It would have flow off in unpredictable directions when a blank was discharged. Or maybe the gun had a barrel lining that broke apart and sent shrapnel flying. Or a piece of equipment was hit and broke apart sending shrapnel flying. Who knows? Too many variables and no info yet.
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Dude, I led off with the fact that it's speculation. I know where its coming from. Everything on this thread is speculation until the facts come out. I was referencing the bit about the position of the director and the cinematographer in relation to where Alec would have been pointing this gun under normal circumstance. As someone who has never been on a set, I think that's a potentially interesting detail.
Point is we don’t have any details. A lot of things could have happened. There are numerous ways people out of the line of fire could have been hit. Some kind of shrapnel could have inadvertently gotten into the muzzle. It would have flow off in unpredictable directions when a blank was discharged. Or maybe the gun had a barrel lining that broke apart and sent shrapnel flying. Or a piece of equipment was hit and broke apart sending shrapnel flying. Who knows? Too many variables and no info yet.
yes probably. The most likely scenario is a variation of the Brandan Lee episode which I quoted some detail above. Something in the barrel and failure to inspect properly. But it could be something else for sure.
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In comment 15424991 Chris in Philly said:
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My point apparently flew over your head and is bouncing around in the right field corner.
CiP is rounding third...
Safe at home?
I was hoping you barreled into home like Charlie Hustle. Just nuke home plate, please?
https://twitter.com/refocusedmedia/status/1451610081339056130/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ae_marciano/status/1451591528875315202
https://twitter.com/venice4change/status/1451472741664649217
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand?
Link - ( New Window )
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand? Link - ( New Window )
Subject line should have said "The gun contained a live round"
Sorry.
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand? Link - ( New Window )
If the gun did contain a live round (or something that could serve as a projectile when fired), then it's a virtual certainty that it wasn't inspected beforehand.
Is this possible? That the gun could contain a live round and it was not inspected beforehand? Link - ( New Window )
On a movie set blanks are referred to as “live” rounds. That may be what he’s referring to. He wasn’t there so I don’t think he’s relaying info specific to this event.
"The Case of the Shooting Star"
"The Case of the Shooting Star"
John, that's what this horror reminds me of, an outrageous and improbable tv script that I would ridicule. It's just hard for me to believe this (I'm not suggesting I doubt the truth of it). It just seems like one more crazy case of life imitating art.
Yikes???
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
Gun That Killed DP ... ALLEGEDLY USED FOR OFF-SET TARGET PRACTICE - ( New Window )
What the... I mean, that just sounds like it shouldn't be possible on a number of levels.
And the AD pretty much didn't follow any of the protocols regarding the firearms.
It was a disaster in the making and unfortunately someone died as a result.
And the AD pretty much didn't follow any of the protocols regarding the firearms.
It was a disaster in the making and unfortunately someone died as a result.
Where are you seeing that about Baldwin? Stories I’ve read had quotes from crew saying he was very careful with weapons.
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multiple times.
And the AD pretty much didn't follow any of the protocols regarding the firearms.
It was a disaster in the making and unfortunately someone died as a result.
Where are you seeing that about Baldwin? Stories I’ve read had quotes from crew saying he was very careful with weapons.
Yea, I haven't heard anything like this, just the opposite in face. It doesn't even appear Baldwin pulled the trigger. This particular gun was misfiring all week.