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as a life long Giants fan(50+years)

mikemo599 : 10/23/2021 5:48 pm
I can only hope that John Mara gets another embarrassing performance tomorrow. I hate to be like this but i'm so fed up with his ineptness! all you younger guys don't kill me. This hurts, and if you cant figure it out that mara and his brother are the common denominator, you'll never get it.
Right there with you...  
GMen72 : 10/23/2021 5:57 pm : link
Wins do this organization zero good at this point...other than giving Mara excuses to stay with the status quo. Loses won't bother me until Gettleman is fired and Garrett and Graham are gone.
What will that do though?  
Jay on the Island : 10/23/2021 6:00 pm : link
He's not going to sell the team. I think he knows that he has to make substantial changes to the way they run this franchise. Actually, I just hope that he does.
RE: Right there with you...  
fanoftheteam : 10/23/2021 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15425888 GMen72 said:
Quote:
Wins do this organization zero good at this point...other than giving Mara excuses to stay with the status quo. Loses won't bother me until Gettleman is fired and Garrett and Graham are gone.



I really hope the Giants hold Car to 10 tomorrow just to come to this site and see the multiple posts about losingPatrick Graham for Head Coaching jobs.

Ill keep dreaming though
I'm not going to root for the Giants to lose,  
81_Great_Dane : 10/23/2021 6:12 pm : link
but I understand that they'd have to win something like 5 in a row just to make the wins meaningful — and I don't see any sign of this team turning that kind of a corner.

This is the kind of awful situation we're in as fans. It stinks.

I'm already running PFN draft sims. FUN!
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2021 7:00 pm : link
We don't win tomorrow & we're starring @ 1-9. @ KC, Oakland, @ Tampa...going to need a lot of beer for those 'games'.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2021 7:01 pm : link
*staring.
Corral's body type doesn't bother me  
Go Terps : 10/23/2021 7:04 pm : link
He does need to learn to slide and avoid contact though. He takes a lot of punishment.

But he's a hell of a player.
Wrong thread sorry  
Go Terps : 10/23/2021 7:05 pm : link
.
RE: Right there with you...  
FStubbs : 10/23/2021 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15425888 GMen72 said:
Quote:
Wins do this organization zero good at this point...other than giving Mara excuses to stay with the status quo. Loses won't bother me until Gettleman is fired and Garrett and Graham are gone.


They're symptoms.

We need the Maras to get out of personnel. I think now that that's such a huge issue I'd almost rather deal with another year of Gettleman and company if it meant the Maras were no longer interfering.

... almost. I still want them gone though.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2021 7:12 pm : link
The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.
RE: ...  
Sammo85 : 10/23/2021 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.


I’m supportive of that analysis. I think Giants need to run a different offense. However Judge comes across as well of being conservative. Not sure about Kitchens as OC. May be a moot point if Judge goes after the season if this team sinks to bottom.
We will know John finally  
Dave on the UWS : 10/23/2021 7:38 pm : link
“Gets it” when he removes his family from player personnel .
RE: We will know John finally  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/23/2021 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15425982 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
“Gets it” when he removes his family from player personnel .


And himself. Get the idea of any owner needing to sign off on some huge deals but the Mara’s are horrible owners. If not for The well known for out of Young onto them this team may have never won a Super Bowl. I wouldn’t let Mara run a lemonade stand.
as a true giants fan  
outeiroj : 10/23/2021 7:50 pm : link
I would be ok with you not calling yourselves fans anymore. A real fan would support this team and hope for things to work themselves out without rooting for failure.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2021 7:52 pm : link
I think Mara's heart is in the right place. The man has been living & dying with Giants football since he came out of the womb. But it's painfully clear that he's made bad decision after bad decision after bad decision for awhile now.

Hire someone with no ties to the organization. We need new blood.
Mara thinks the Giants have an identity  
Producer : 10/23/2021 8:01 pm : link
that is important to preserve. The identity is tough, run-first, defensive football. As long as they insist on this identity, the Giants will keep losing.

The Giants philosophy no longer wins enough football games to sustain a consistent winner. The league is now a finesse, offensive league and the Giants are a dinosaur.
RE: ...  
Bill in UT : 10/23/2021 8:03 pm : link
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.


There's a lot of talk that maybe the offense is so vanilla because the players suck. But I don't see why you need great players to put in imaginative plays. It's no harder running a good play than a lousy one. Maybe execution won't be perfect, but wtf, the offense isn't accomplishing anything now.
I will never ever hope for a loss  
Jalapeno : 10/23/2021 8:04 pm : link
but at this point I am beyond hoping for a win.

I just wanna see decent Giants football.
RE: RE: ...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2021 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15425997 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.



There's a lot of talk that maybe the offense is so vanilla because the players suck. But I don't see why you need great players to put in imaginative plays. It's no harder running a good play than a lousy one. Maybe execution won't be perfect, but wtf, the offense isn't accomplishing anything now.


You don't need the '99 Rams personnel to run an imaginative offense. Garrett just is incapable of it. Again, I think I was in favor of his hiring, but it has been a disaster.
RE: Mara thinks the Giants have an identity  
Angel Eyes : 10/23/2021 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15425996 Producer said:
Quote:
that is important to preserve. The identity is tough, run-first, defensive football. As long as they insist on this identity, the Giants will keep losing.

The Giants philosophy no longer wins enough football games to sustain a consistent winner. The league is now a finesse, offensive league and the Giants are a dinosaur.

I don't know, the Giants haven't been doing well at trying to preserve that identity. Take the pass rush; we haven't drafted a good edge rusher since JPP and Gettleman in particular has been unwilling to commit to fixing that; "Rome wasn't built in a day, dahlin."
RE: Mara thinks the Giants have an identity  
GiantsFan84 : 10/23/2021 8:20 pm : link
In comment 15425996 Producer said:
Quote:
that is important to preserve. The identity is tough, run-first, defensive football. As long as they insist on this identity, the Giants will keep losing.

The Giants philosophy no longer wins enough football games to sustain a consistent winner. The league is now a finesse, offensive league and the Giants are a dinosaur.


i disagree with this to a certain extent. the giants aren't good at defense or running the ball. to make the claim you can't win doing that i don't think is accurate.

the problem is the giants aren't really good at anything. and it all goes back to the offensive line and quarterback.
At this point, winning isn't the objective...  
BamaBlue : 10/23/2021 8:23 pm : link
I want to see the defense playing tough, making tackles, stopping 3d down plays and avoiding the grinding drives right before halftime and the first possession of the second half. None of this has been happening after the 1st quarter of any game.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…”  
thrunthrublue : 10/23/2021 8:27 pm : link
Two radically different regimes, from daddy Wellington, who realized his imitations and humbly addressed them….to silver spooner Johnny boy who appears to be a poster child for “regression to the mean”. Where is the grown up Steve Tish? We need him to jump in and get us on the right track in 2022. The iceberg is not straight ahead, it has already split this franchise in half, sending it to the 1-5 bottom!
I m a bit  
joeinpa : 10/23/2021 8:47 pm : link
Confused. What do you hope will be accomplished with an embarrassing loss tomorrow?

The Mara s have had plenty of embarrassing losses this past decade. It has spurred them to change, so far they haven’t worked

I would much rather root for a win tomorrow, a return to health of many key players, and some good football and wins for the remainder of the season.

I m hoping those wins include continue improvement of players who can help the Giants win going forward.

I m hoping the rest of the season helps determine that Daniel is the guy as well as Judge.

Not rooting for embarrassing losses, that s seems ridiculous.

If they continue to lose , changes will happen again, not sure why some of you think that s what we need to root for at the moment, hasn’t worked too well up to now.

And spare me the Mara s are the problem, because they aren’t going anywhere, so let s root for them to get it right again.
RE: At this point, winning isn't the objective...  
NJLCO : 10/23/2021 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15426007 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I want to see the defense playing tough, making tackles, stopping 3d down plays and avoiding the grinding drives right before halftime and the first possession of the second half. None of this has been happening after the 1st quarter of any game.

100 percent agree at this time. I want to see that Blue Collar football game.
RE: RE: Mara thinks the Giants have an identity  
Producer : 10/23/2021 9:41 pm : link
In comment 15426004 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 15425996 Producer said:


Quote:


that is important to preserve. The identity is tough, run-first, defensive football. As long as they insist on this identity, the Giants will keep losing.

The Giants philosophy no longer wins enough football games to sustain a consistent winner. The league is now a finesse, offensive league and the Giants are a dinosaur.



i disagree with this to a certain extent. the giants aren't good at defense or running the ball. to make the claim you can't win doing that i don't think is accurate.

the problem is the giants aren't really good at anything. and it all goes back to the offensive line and quarterback.


Well we wouldn't have spent crucial resources on a RB and on run stuffers if they knew better.
RE: I m a bit  
Scooter185 : 10/23/2021 10:02 pm : link
In comment 15426010 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Confused. What do you hope will be accomplished with an embarrassing loss tomorrow?

The Mara s have had plenty of embarrassing losses this past decade. It has spurred them to change, so far they haven’t worked

I would much rather root for a win tomorrow, a return to health of many key players, and some good football and wins for the remainder of the season.

I m hoping those wins include continue improvement of players who can help the Giants win going forward.

I m hoping the rest of the season helps determine that Daniel is the guy as well as Judge.

Not rooting for embarrassing losses, that s seems ridiculous.

If they continue to lose , changes will happen again, not sure why some of you think that s what we need to root for at the moment, hasn’t worked too well up to now.

And spare me the Mara s are the problem, because they aren’t going anywhere, so let s root for them to get it right again.


I want them to keep iterating until they get it right. I do not believe that this iteration of the team is very good, so imv the quickest way to get back on track is to go 1-16, clean house, and reboot. Winning 5-7 games does nothing except keep them mired in mediocrity
I just wonder  
kinard : 10/23/2021 10:06 pm : link
if a new GM will come in and have the balls to fire Chris Mara, our Senior Director of Player Personnel.
RE: ...I probably said this before  
Svengali : 10/23/2021 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.


But, I lived in Dallas before and the one thing they all complained about was Garrett’s offense. It was obvious to all there fans…. Then we hired him as the offensive coordinator.. oh well….
RE: At this point, winning isn't the objective...  
Route 9 : 10/24/2021 12:11 am : link
In comment 15426007 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I want to see the defense playing tough, making tackles, stopping 3d down plays and avoiding the grinding drives right before halftime and the first possession of the second half. None of this has been happening after the 1st quarter of any game.


Winning hasn't been the objective around this place for many years
I thought continuous losing would bring us back to a skillful,  
GiantBlue : 10/24/2021 12:59 am : link
Enjoyable team.

I was wrong………..it has been the opposite.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know there is no one in the Giants building who has a clue.

I am still looking for a shred of pride from these players. Still looking.
RE: I thought continuous losing would bring us back to a skillful,  
Route 9 : 10/24/2021 2:06 am : link
In comment 15426061 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
Enjoyable team.

I was wrong………..it has been the opposite.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know there is no one in the Giants building who has a clue.

I am still looking for a shred of pride from these players. Still looking.


I agree with this. I thought 2017 was the bottom, of course there's nothing worse than the Eagles winning the Super Bowl and loser Giant fans getting horny over their victory, but my God they somehow became even more rotten as a franchise.

I thought 2018 some games got away from the Giants and they could get better but once they drafted Jones and traded OBJ, I thought that was two of the dumbest things DG did as GM. Next is the Stewart contract. Yikes. Then maybe drafting Barkley #2 overall lol
I think  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/24/2021 7:56 am : link
you had percentage of fans who thought talent was the biggest issue for some time but the bigger scapegoats were the coaches and for some in his later years Eli. Now with four coaches having struggled (one a potential HOF'er) and Eli removed for now the second year with continued poor results Mara is not going to be able to get away with subtle changes. I think the narrative will switch to him and the pressure will be intense.

Big changes are coming unless a very significant turn in events with the on field performance.

RE: I m a bit  
EricJ : 10/24/2021 8:36 am : link
In comment 15426010 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Confused. What do you hope will be accomplished with an embarrassing loss tomorrow?


Not speaking for the person to whom you directed the question.

For, me.. there is no sense to have an "embarrassing" loss. However, if you want real change then we need an embarrassing season.

I also will always root for the team to win each week. What we cannot have though is a string of meaningless wins to give John Mara the excuse to make no changes.
I have used the word embarrassing far too often this season  
chick310 : 10/24/2021 8:41 am : link
in conversations with friends and family about the Giants. Sad but unfortunately not unfair.

Seems a victory these days is just being in the game in the second half.
This a difficult and unpopular conversation here  
arniefez : 10/24/2021 8:48 am : link
There have bascially been two monumental failures that directly lead to the Giants winning their 4 Super Bowls.

The fumble lead to George Young which eventually lead to the Parcells years. The 2002 Playoff collaspe lead to the end of Fassel after a 4-12 season and the trade for Eli.

Things never change around the Giants unless catastrophe strikes and embarrasses the owners. I can't actually root for the Giants to lose. But I know long term the more games they lose this year the better chance we as fans have for some change and that's protbably the only chance we have to end the Sons of Wellington lost decade.
RE: ...  
HomerJones45 : 10/24/2021 9:07 am : link
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.
The offense is limited by the qb. Somehow Dallas always had a good offense with Romo and Prescott, an UDFA and a 4th round pick. You all saw what happens when you turn Danny Dimes loose last week and it wasn't pretty. We've seen this movie before. Garrett is going to walk the plank while they find someone else to "fix" the 6th pick in the draft and they draft a qb or two in the later rounds that new OC. The new OC will promptly fall in love with said drafted qb. In another year or two, DJ will be backing up on some or if he is lucky, will get a Tannehill-like job on a team where he is not the center of the offense.
RE: RE: ...I probably said this before  
HomerJones45 : 10/24/2021 9:21 am : link
In comment 15426039 Svengali said:
Quote:
In comment 15425950 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


The Garrett hire...I think @ the time I was in favor of it, but man was I wrong. Just an uncreative, unimaginative, blah offense. When I watch other offenses in the league...it looks like we're a decade behind.



But, I lived in Dallas before and the one thing they all complained about was Garrett’s offense. It was obvious to all there fans…. Then we hired him as the offensive coordinator.. oh well….
All that proves is that Dallas fans are no more savvy than NY fans. They forget all about the fact that Dallas has not had to spend a first round pick on a starting qb since Troy Aikman.

joeinpa is right: no one is firing Chris Mara and Jawn is like his father; he does not have the emotional makeup to stand aside, get out of the way and put an executive with a great background in charge who knows what they are doing. Dear old Dad was finally forced to step aside by his brother and the Commissioner, who stepped in and had the credibility and balls to tell Welly it was over and promise George Young that there would be no meddling. You think the son is any different?
The last thing  
Gmanfandan : 10/24/2021 10:43 am : link
I want is to blow this thing up again (knowing that we might just have to)
We've never had to be that team that switches coaches every two years and gets a new QB every three and re-tools the whole deal - until now.
So, in my mind you give Danny a little more room and you give JJ a little more room and maybe even Graham - maybe you make Garret the scapegoat - and hope we can have some continuity and improvement.
RE: RE: Right there with you...  
clatterbuck : 10/24/2021 11:59 am : link
In comment 15425946 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15425888 GMen72 said:


Quote:


Wins do this organization zero good at this point...other than giving Mara excuses to stay with the status quo. Loses won't bother me until Gettleman is fired and Garrett and Graham are gone.



They're symptoms.

We need the Maras to get out of personnel. I think now that that's such a huge issue I'd almost rather deal with another year of Gettleman and company if it meant the Maras were no longer interfering.

... almost. I still want them gone though.


Where's the evidence the Maras are interfering in personnel?Do you really think John Mara, or even Chris, is meddling in day-to-day personnel decisions? Mara didn't even intervene when McAdoo benched Eli.
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