after such a rough outing last week against the Rams. While his bottom line stats don't jump out at you, he performed at a very high level, especially with so many starters out of the line-up.
Perhaps most impressive was his 3rd Quarter TD drive, starting with the ball first and 10 at the Giants 25. It started with a stretch run to the left with Booker which turned out to be a fake with Jones doing a reverse pivot to his right. One problem -- he only had Kyle Rudolph trying to seal Bryan Burns, which failed. But Jones eluded Burns, faking him out, continued running to his right and then threw a 15-yard strike to Darius Slayton right at the sideline for a first down.
And then on third and 13 at the 42-yard line, Jones took a low snap, has to step up into the pocket, and then drifts to his right finding Booker for a 15-yard gain and another first down.
And then, of course, the end around pass that Daniel Jones hauled in with one hand (good for 16 yards and another first down) -- and best of all, he holds onto the ball after former Giant Sean Chandler puts a huge hit on him.
There was also Jones bobbing and weaving for 6 yards and then he executes a beautiful pitch option to Devonte Booker that froze Haason Reddick and went for 11 yards and another first down. And then the coup de grace on third and 3 at the Panthers 5-yard line -- a TD pass to Dante Pettis!
Daniel Jones looked totally in control for the entire drive. Very proud to see him perform this way! And kudos to Devontae Booker as well!
I thought he was fair. What agenda do I have?
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"very good" QB play
The expectations around here for Jones are laughably low for a lottery pick.
I continue to be floored by those who don't expect Jones to make chicken salad. ANY QB taken in the top 10 should be expected to make chicken salad. Why else would you draft one that high?
And if you can't make chicken salad as the 6th pick, IMV, you don't deserve the next contract.
I think you are reading it that way. I believe most people expect the #6 pick in the draft to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Pointing to him playing well yesterday doesn't mean expectations have been fulfilled, or he's earned contract #2. Jury still very much out on that. He also played with half an offense yesterday, something a lot of the top guys don't really experience.
We also don't know what contract #2 even looks like. I broke it down in the past and don't feel like doing it again but the big #2 contracts went to players with huge year 3s or year 4s - Jones isn't in line for a big deal because he hasn't earned it yet.
Unfortunately, not everyone progresses on the same line. Eli came into a MUCH better situation and had success because the defense was good and the running game was great. Jones has neither.
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and KC scored 3 pts yesterday. Where's the chicken salad?
He had a bad performance. So? Mahomes has more than earned his chicken salad bona fides.
Do you want me to refresh your memory of clips where Mahomes ad-libs and makes incredible play after incredible play? I don't mind. It'll be a long, long video to watch...
We are speaking about this game, did he play well?
I can safely say without agenda that Mahomes played poorly yesterday. He had 205 yds and a pick.
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but that particular game yesterday, he played well. We all watched him play. If we can't acknowledge that, then there is an agenda.
I thought he was fair. What agenda do I have?
No idea, just we disagree on that point. What would you have liked to have seen from him?
We are speaking about this game, did he play well?
I can safely say without agenda that Mahomes played poorly yesterday. He had 205 yds and a pick.
Come on, EVERY QB has a bad game. To use this as an example of Mahomes not being able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit is ridiculous. No one is saying that DJ has to make chicken salad every play of every game, but we'd like to see it once in a while.
We are speaking about this game, did he play well?
I can safely say without agenda that Mahomes played poorly yesterday. He had 205 yds and a pick.
I'll use a different adjective. Mahomes played horribly.
But I feel very comfortable saying that's more the exception than the rule. So it's just bad form to bring up a transcendent player like Mahomes to make a point here.
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We are speaking about this game, did he play well?
I can safely say without agenda that Mahomes played poorly yesterday. He had 205 yds and a pick.
Come on, EVERY QB has a bad game. To use this as an example of Mahomes not being able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit is ridiculous. No one is saying that DJ has to make chicken salad every play of every game, but we'd like to see it once in a while.
My point is, based on yesterday, I think Jones did just that. I don't have some agenda saying Jones is a bad pick or not the future (who knows). But yesterday with shit around him vs a decent defense, he played well. That is all.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
Really? You don't have an agenda saying Mahomes was poor yesterday? Because I thought you were trying to swindle us out of our savings. I was about to phone the FBI.
My point is, based on yesterday, I think Jones did just that. I don't have some agenda saying Jones is a bad pick or not the future (who knows). But yesterday with shit around him vs a decent defense, he played well. That is all.
As I've said, considering the circumstances, I thought Jones played pretty well, but we'll have to agree to disagree about chicken salad being a game where you're up 5-3 with 16 minutes left. Yes, he was short a bunch of guys, but that's the chicken shit people refer to. The defense repeatedly gave him a short field to work with.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
I think we all want to see him throw down the field more, question is why isn't he? Im not going to watch the all 22 so I dont know but we can speculate. I hate the Giants RZ, thats just flat out terrible.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
Do you think maybe the WR's that he's throwing to is a reason why? Golladay and Toney seem like our big play threats(although KT is more like OBJ, catch it short, take it long) and KT hasn't seen the field and Golladay has been banged up most of the season.
DJ is still learning. I'm guessing that he's trying to protect the ball and taking less chances. Theres a balance that he hasn't quite learned yet, but we've seen how good he can be throwing deep. It shouldn't be hard for him to learn that balance of taking chances and protecting the ball.
Would prefer if we could more productively talk about DJ's weaknesses and the points that he needs to improve, rather than a cheesy metaphor-standard.
Maybe on D we don't need really need linebackers. What we really need is an elite nosetackle who can make lemonade out of LB lemons?
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I found it really frustrating that the offense put up five points in the first half with such great field position.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
Do you think maybe the WR's that he's throwing to is a reason why? Golladay and Toney seem like our big play threats(although KT is more like OBJ, catch it short, take it long) and KT hasn't seen the field and Golladay has been banged up most of the season.
DJ is still learning. I'm guessing that he's trying to protect the ball and taking less chances. Theres a balance that he hasn't quite learned yet, but we've seen how good he can be throwing deep. It shouldn't be hard for him to learn that balance of taking chances and protecting the ball.
Certainly possible but I thought I saw this conservatism when Barkley/Golladay were out there. Maybe it was just too early in the year though and the plan was to let it rip later. Jones has checked the box for me on turnovers (I'm happy to throw out last week's game against the Rams). But I need to see the ability to make big plays, lead a good offense, etc.
I can't wait to get KT/Golladay back (and hopefully healthy).
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My point is, based on yesterday, I think Jones did just that. I don't have some agenda saying Jones is a bad pick or not the future (who knows). But yesterday with shit around him vs a decent defense, he played well. That is all.
As I've said, considering the circumstances, I thought Jones played pretty well, but we'll have to agree to disagree about chicken salad being a game where you're up 5-3 with 16 minutes left. Yes, he was short a bunch of guys, but that's the chicken shit people refer to. The defense repeatedly gave him a short field to work with.
Ok, but what did Jones do where you are pointing the finger at him? The guy had 10 incompletions yesterday with 2/3 drops. He missed a guy deep that was open, but was smoked because Price sucks and didn't block anyone. Jones was under duress for a large portion of the game and had to move around a lot. I'm not sure what more he could have done.
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I found it really frustrating that the offense put up five points in the first half with such great field position.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
I think we all want to see him throw down the field more, question is why isn't he? Im not going to watch the all 22 so I dont know but we can speculate. I hate the Giants RZ, thats just flat out terrible.
Yeah, I'm not watching it either, lol. I'd venture that some is on Jones himself (it's not like there are no deep options), but the play-calling is my best guess as the bigger culprit.
Would prefer if we could more productively talk about DJ's weaknesses and the points that he needs to improve, rather than a cheesy metaphor-standard.
Maybe on D we don't need really need linebackers. What we really need is an elite nosetackle who can make lemonade out of LB lemons?
He needs to throw more winning throws downfield. It's fairly simple. People see two pretty deep passes a week and think Jones has great passing ability. His ability on outs is questionable, especially deep outs, and he doesn't have great touch and accuracy on a variety of throws he needs to make. He does throw that deep overhead ball quite nicely, but that's not enough, to be honest.
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In comment 15428914 BrettNYG10 said:
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I found it really frustrating that the offense put up five points in the first half with such great field position.
Jones is much improved in his pocket presence and in protecting the football. But we still lack the big plays needed to win sustainably in the NFL. How many passes are we throwing within five yards of the line of scrimmage?
The play calling in the RZ is frustrating. The aversion to throwing the ball within the ten is awful.
Do you think maybe the WR's that he's throwing to is a reason why? Golladay and Toney seem like our big play threats(although KT is more like OBJ, catch it short, take it long) and KT hasn't seen the field and Golladay has been banged up most of the season.
DJ is still learning. I'm guessing that he's trying to protect the ball and taking less chances. Theres a balance that he hasn't quite learned yet, but we've seen how good he can be throwing deep. It shouldn't be hard for him to learn that balance of taking chances and protecting the ball.
Certainly possible but I thought I saw this conservatism when Barkley/Golladay were out there. Maybe it was just too early in the year though and the plan was to let it rip later. Jones has checked the box for me on turnovers (I'm happy to throw out last week's game against the Rams). But I need to see the ability to make big plays, lead a good offense, etc.
I can't wait to get KT/Golladay back (and hopefully healthy).
Agreed, need to see more, but def not ready to write him off like some are. He's been a lot better than he was last year, despite being in a terrible situation.
Like I said earlier, I've seen enough from DJ to know he CAN be a franchise QB, but I haven't quite seen enough from him that he WILL be a franchise QB. However, I've liked what I've seen from him so far considering all of the circumstances.
2. The WR's that have played haven't been good. Show me the team with bad WR's that throw deep successfully. KT and Golladay are both good WR's that are threats that have barely played.
3. Jones is focused on protecting the ball because thats all everyone talks about with him.
4. The playcalling is very conservative. Considering how conservative Judge seems to be, I'd guess he wants his offense being conservative too.
As in top-8? Sorry he objectively lacks the arm talent to land in that tier.
Also, it's subjective, not objective regarding your take.
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In comment 15428753 cosmicj said:
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He missed a key long throw that should have been a TD in the second half. Against a good team, that might have led to an L. Very good QBs hit the open receiver in key moments like that.
You have to hit those wide open posts. Those are his missing TDs. Coverage breaks downs a couple times a game. You can't miss. Difference between winning and losing often.
Are you talking about the play where Price got beat immediately and Jones got smacked in the face as he threw it. He didn't miss it, Price missed it....as in the block.
Correct
Also, it's subjective, not objective regarding your take.
That's such a loaded stat, the main reason being that he didn't throw it a lot. Hitting .300 in 10 at bats is nice but hardly a clear, full picture.
It's well documented that the Giants were at the bottom of the league in big plays and big plays attempted.
So maybe the sample is small, but it does prove the ability is there.
39 deep passes is by far the lowest of the qualifying QBs. As a point of reference Rodgers attempted 74 passes over 20 yards. Herbert: 61
You want the guy that's accurate on a bigger volume, as a real measure of talent.
The stat shows he COULD possibly be that guy, yet his own coaching staff doesn't seem to want to test that theory.
with a JV OL to boot. unbelievable.
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they don't test it because the WR talent is so poor - is it that difficult to understand? We are talking about below JAG level guys, who are 7th or 8th on the roster, or not even rostered on good teams. But suddenly we are supposed to just let it crank?
with a JV OL to boot. unbelievable.
Yup, once Peart went down we were on to Tackle #4 coupled with basically G/C combo of of almost practice squad level players and Hernandez.
DJ isn't fumbling a lot, he isn't throwing pics alot (save for the Rams game) and when Garrett is calling something other than 12 formation he seems to make plays. Those plays are going to be limited because of the OL/WR/no Barkley. I'm sure better QB's would do better, but how much is anyone's guess.
Would prefer if we could more productively talk about DJ's weaknesses and the points that he needs to improve, rather than a cheesy metaphor-standard.
Every team has talent. It's the level of talent at issue here.
Check out the Raiders. They don't have the best OL and their receivers are still pretty unproven outside of Waller. But Carr is lighting it up and quietly having an MVP-type year.
Green Bay is playing with a stop-gap, makeshift OL right now. Bakhtiari is still out (best LT in the game) and they lost their pro bowl, Linsley, to the Chargers. And outside of Adams, who is great, I would call the rest of that receiving cast solid at best. But Rodgers continues to find answers.
Last year Herbert had the worst pass protecting OLs in the league. No problem. He had the best QBR in the league when under pressure. And killed it his rookie year.
Same with Russell Wilson. For a decade, more than anyone in the NFL, he's done considerably more with less than any player in the NFL. Some of his OLs have been just has hideous as ours at times.
Obviously Brady did it forever in New England.
After almost three years in the saddle, do you have any more faith that Jones can make chicken salad and be considered an elite-type QB to move forward with? Because that should be the conclusion if he is deserving of a longer investment. Otherwise, we need to find another solution at QB.
Herbert is a great QB and clearly an outlier, but they were 18th in PPG last year.
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In comment 15428010 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15428002 Toth029 said:
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In comment 15427997 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15427992 Toth029 said:
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Defense had the 6th best defense (points allowed) entering the game.
Jones played with bottom level guys on the line, at receiver and no game until deep in the 4th quarter. NO BIG DEAL, GUYS.
If it makes you sleep better at night, think this was good.
If you leave the game and look at Jones in a negative light still, maybe you should stop joining the discussion, because you're not adding anything of value. This post here by you proves my point. Maybe educate yourself on the roster, or go back to Reddit.
The game was 12-3 until the Panthers started handing the Giants 4 straight short fields. They had 18 first downs on 13 drives which is pathetically embarrassing.
Sorry you’re blinded by a win but 200 yards and a game that was pathetic for 75% of the day isn’t some indictment that Jones was good.
If you continue to completely ignore that he was playing with one of the worst supporting casts on offense that any QB has had in many years then you should just delete your account because nobody gives a damn what you have to say. The WRs and OL that were trotted out there today was embarrassing.
I’m not Jones’ biggest fan but you need you fucking head examined if you can’t acknowledge what he did out there today. Your grasp of football is a disgrace.
My football knowledge way out weighs yours. He was decent nothing more.
You can not give a damn what I say because you’re satisfied with this game , but I’ve been right the last 5 years on this board so whose football knowledge is a disgrace?
This game isn’t anything to be excited about when it comes to Jones.
What a douche!
That's fine. I'm simply pointing out the highly misleading nature of a stat being touted. But the WR were healthy early. Thomas is solid at LT. They weren't trying to throw it then either.
The one time they did, New Orleans, it worked.
Being aggressive is outside their comfort zone.
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so with all of this chicken salad talk... can someone tell me which QBs around the league are winning without talent around them so far this season? Maybe Lamar?
Would prefer if we could more productively talk about DJ's weaknesses and the points that he needs to improve, rather than a cheesy metaphor-standard.
Every team has talent. It's the level of talent at issue here.
Check out the Raiders. They don't have the best OL and their receivers are still pretty unproven outside of Waller. But Carr is lighting it up and quietly having an MVP-type year.
Green Bay is playing with a stop-gap, makeshift OL right now. Bakhtiari is still out (best LT in the game) and they lost their pro bowl, Linsley, to the Chargers. And outside of Adams, who is great, I would call the rest of that receiving cast solid at best. But Rodgers continues to find answers.
Last year Herbert had the worst pass protecting OLs in the league. No problem. He had the best QBR in the league when under pressure. And killed it his rookie year.
Same with Russell Wilson. For a decade, more than anyone in the NFL, he's done considerably more with less than any player in the NFL. Some of his OLs have been just has hideous as ours at times.
Obviously Brady did it forever in New England.
After almost three years in the saddle, do you have any more faith that Jones can make chicken salad and be considered an elite-type QB to move forward with? Because that should be the conclusion if he is deserving of a longer investment. Otherwise, we need to find another solution at QB.
I mean Aaron Rodgers is one of the best QB of all time and DeVante Adams is probably the best WR in the league or at least top 3. Brady is probably the best of all time. Hebert has Keenan Allen top 5 WR, Mike Williams, and so many other targets. You put Daniel Jones on the Chargers and I bet he looks better than here and Herbert looks worse on the Giants. I would also say Herbert OL is better than anything we have had this year.
Saying that yes all those QBs are better than Jones, but that wasn't your question. Your question is do we have faith that Jones can make chicken salad and be considered an elite-type QB to move forward with? My answer is yes for him being good to close to elite and that is good enough. Elite type QB I reserve for the top 5-7 QBs like Rodgers and Brady for example. I don't think Herbert is Elite-type yet, but could get there in a few years. I truly believe what DJ is showing this year and really about half way through last year when he started tightening up his turnovers is he can lead a rag tag team. He had an issue and worked hard to fix it and I believe with better play calling and work his redzone will be better also. We have seen him this year with all the injuries hang tough and be great when he had some fire power (saints game when Thomas, Gollady, Barkley, and Toney were all healthy). Injuries, horrible Defense, and horrible play calling in the redzone have been what has affected our win total the most. Yes he needs to get better, but I think he will continue to improve and lead us. I am all in with DJ.
I don’t know how his career will play out, I rooting hard that he s the guy, but I swear some of the posters here are really hoping for his failure
I think it only appears that way simply because there have been far more opportunities throughout Jones' career to be critical of his play (and the Giants as a whole) than positive.
The guy is still just 10-24 in his career. He's still only thrown 5 for TDs this season. It shouldn't be too controversial when people are doubtful that a decent game against an average-to-good team means he's cemented himself as an indispensable asset on the team.
Come on, EVERY QB has a bad game. To use this as an example of Mahomes not being able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit is ridiculous. No one is saying that DJ has to make chicken salad every play of every game, but we'd like to see it once in a while.
And there's a corollary to that: almost every starting QB drafted high has a few good games. If they start two seasons' worth of games, very few of them go 0-32. Very few of them are incapable of putting up a few wins, or looking pretty good in losses, or having a few games with 1 TD and 0 turnovers.
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In comment 15428941 JB_in_DC said:
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so with all of this chicken salad talk... can someone tell me which QBs around the league are winning without talent around them so far this season? Maybe Lamar?
Would prefer if we could more productively talk about DJ's weaknesses and the points that he needs to improve, rather than a cheesy metaphor-standard.
Every team has talent. It's the level of talent at issue here.
Check out the Raiders. They don't have the best OL and their receivers are still pretty unproven outside of Waller. But Carr is lighting it up and quietly having an MVP-type year.
Green Bay is playing with a stop-gap, makeshift OL right now. Bakhtiari is still out (best LT in the game) and they lost their pro bowl, Linsley, to the Chargers. And outside of Adams, who is great, I would call the rest of that receiving cast solid at best. But Rodgers continues to find answers.
Last year Herbert had the worst pass protecting OLs in the league. No problem. He had the best QBR in the league when under pressure. And killed it his rookie year.
Same with Russell Wilson. For a decade, more than anyone in the NFL, he's done considerably more with less than any player in the NFL. Some of his OLs have been just has hideous as ours at times.
Obviously Brady did it forever in New England.
After almost three years in the saddle, do you have any more faith that Jones can make chicken salad and be considered an elite-type QB to move forward with? Because that should be the conclusion if he is deserving of a longer investment. Otherwise, we need to find another solution at QB.
I mean Aaron Rodgers is one of the best QB of all time and DeVante Adams is probably the best WR in the league or at least top 3. Brady is probably the best of all time. Hebert has Keenan Allen top 5 WR, Mike Williams, and so many other targets. You put Daniel Jones on the Chargers and I bet he looks better than here and Herbert looks worse on the Giants. I would also say Herbert OL is better than anything we have had this year.
Saying that yes all those QBs are better than Jones, but that wasn't your question. Your question is do we have faith that Jones can make chicken salad and be considered an elite-type QB to move forward with? My answer is yes for him being good to close to elite and that is good enough. Elite type QB I reserve for the top 5-7 QBs like Rodgers and Brady for example. I don't think Herbert is Elite-type yet, but could get there in a few years. I truly believe what DJ is showing this year and really about half way through last year when he started tightening up his turnovers is he can lead a rag tag team. He had an issue and worked hard to fix it and I believe with better play calling and work his redzone will be better also. We have seen him this year with all the injuries hang tough and be great when he had some fire power (saints game when Thomas, Gollady, Barkley, and Toney were all healthy). Injuries, horrible Defense, and horrible play calling in the redzone have been what has affected our win total the most. Yes he needs to get better, but I think he will continue to improve and lead us. I am all in with DJ.
You think Jones who has an abysmal W-L record and is bottom third in every important stat, is close to elite? You guys have lost your fucking marbles.
in 3 years he has had:
2 different coaches
2 different Offensive systems
No running game
Horrid O-Line
Below average WR corps
Massive amount of Injuries to key Offensive players
COVID protocols which greatly limited practices
I may be wrong but I don't think there is any other QB right now who has had anywhere close to the gauntlet he had let alone any elite QB ever.
bet you won't admit that engram has played pretty well making a lot of difficult catches the last 2 games. go ahead, sound off.
bet you won't admit that engram has played pretty well making a lot of difficult catches the last 2 games. go ahead, sound off.
Sure I can. I was even able to admit it when Jerrel Jernigan had that good game that one time.
in 3 years he has had:
2 different coaches
2 different Offensive systems
No running game
Horrid O-Line
Below average WR corps
Massive amount of Injuries to key Offensive players
COVID protocols which greatly limited practices
I may be wrong but I don't think there is any other QB right now who has had anywhere close to the gauntlet he had let alone any elite QB ever.
It should make him better in the long run. It can’t get much worse
That doesn't count. You can't compare because... just because!
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In comment 15428088 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15428076 speedywheels said:
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LOL, Of COURSE you rely on that. What was Jackson's QBR today? Mahomes?
It's a useful measurement tool. What does the play of LJax and Mahomes have to do with how Jones performed today?
Are you sure you want to start comparing Jones's play to theirs week to week?
Do your stats consider that he was throwing to guys by the name of Pettis, Johnson, Sills, and Ross? And that the OL was complete embarrassment putting him under siege all day against a very good defense? You don’t think the environment around him being worse than any QB in the league has had to deal with matters?
Don’t answer that. We all know your answer. If only the Giants had drafted one of your QB crushes like Grier, Lock and Rosen. Among others. You’re a real wiz at evaluating QBs. They should just listen to you…
Actually, QBR focuses on the QB's play and whether he is making quality throws and runs. So the quality of the receiver doesn't matter. That is smoothed out.
If Jones puts a pass on the button to receiver X, and X drops the ball, Jones gets credit for doing his job effectively. Further, QBR, unlike Passer Rating adjusts for the time of the game. So if a QB is gaining yards and scoring points in garbage time, less credit is given.
Right and they led most of the way so it was all garbage time. Look he completed 70% of his passes with a TD, almost another by inches, no turnovers, had good rushes, and an amazing catch. When you are up big you aren't going to throw the ball as much or take as many chances. He played well. To pick QBR as your barometer is crazy. I will say what all negative BBI posters say. Use your eyes and today your eyes saw a good game from Daniel Jones.
That is both fair and real.
The OL, RBs an WRs are good enough to get him to the Red Zone, It is not unreasonable to expect a person being given the label of franchise QB to execute better than Jones has in Red Zone.
It is also not unreasonable to expect him to do it with consistency before you say he is franchise QB. We should all admit that the rest of the season will provide clarity to this debate.
Year 3 is big deal in evaluating QBs, not just the first 7 games.
The whole season.