And, my main point of the thread was organizational alignment. The Panthers had (and still do) an owner-GM-HC who all appear to be lockstep in their long term plan.
I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.
I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.
RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already
Mostly good football this season; (My opinion shared by quite a few others who cover the team for a living)
Daniel Jones is fun to watch and easy to root for, (again my opinion)
Daniel Jones will be the quarterback for this team next season, (not a fact, but a very high probability)
Fact, His critics here will continue to be relentless in their posts trying to get us to admit they are right about him and our hope for him is misplaced.
But, If you are an anti Jones guy, and twist every single thing he does, even his positive moments, to fit a negative narrative, never saying anything positive about him , you lack objectivity and eventually your pt of view falls on deaf ears.
I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone. It s pathetic that trying to run in from the 1 ft line is interpreted as a lack of confidence in the quarterback.
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone.
I made that comment and i hope that Giants coaches are at fault for that. You mean to tell me Jones has had the green light this whole time and only threw 11 TDs last year and is right on track to do that this year???!!!
OK how is that a good starting NFL QB then????
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
see unlike you i can have a conversation and make an opinion about another player without having to bring up the Giants or Jones..
Jones has nothing to do with Darnold, my view on Jones has nothing to do with my view on Darnold
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent
RE: RE: here's a little hypothetical for those criticizing the OP
Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?
Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.
I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent
Yea but he didn't. There is no hypothetical needed. Jones went 0-3 against some very weak teams this year. In his 3rd year with the same team.
Darnold gets traded for a 2nd and 4th is making below avg salary this year but in bbi logic that is too generous. Like WTF? (He is starting in the NFL). Darnold even gets benched.
you really don't see the difference of treatment both by posters here and by coaches and owners?
RE: RE: RE: here's a little hypothetical for those criticizing the OP
Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?
Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.
I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
Yeah, he's a hot mess right now.
How Am I supposed to prove this anyway without making a comparison?
And, my main point of the thread was organizational alignment. The Panthers had (and still do) an owner-GM-HC who all appear to be lockstep in their long term plan.
I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.
I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.
see my post above. I understand the alignment point but both then and now their "fully aligned team" oddly hitched their wagon to Darnold over other better options. while things certainly looked better at 3-0 I believe it had been mentioned in that thread that Darnold's outings vs. the Jets and Houston in particular werent all that impressive. He was still making the same kind of play he made yesterday in the RZ with the Bradberry INT - which has always been his achilles heel.
Comparisons to Carolina, Arizona, the Chargers….are useless.
If they still want to : run the ball, stop the run , get to the QB, or, throw the ball to a bevy of great receivers; or, have a rock solid D and an adequate O; or….whatever; draft well to whatever identity they want, coach well to that identity, and be the GIANTS opponents respect.
That’d be a nice change from the last 12+years.
I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.
I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.
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In comment 15428739 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.
They are paying him below starter salary for this year.
you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?
Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?
I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?
Daniel Jones is fun to watch and easy to root for, (again my opinion)
Daniel Jones will be the quarterback for this team next season, (not a fact, but a very high probability)
Fact, His critics here will continue to be relentless in their posts trying to get us to admit they are right about him and our hope for him is misplaced.
But, If you are an anti Jones guy, and twist every single thing he does, even his positive moments, to fit a negative narrative, never saying anything positive about him , you lack objectivity and eventually your pt of view falls on deaf ears.
I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone. It s pathetic that trying to run in from the 1 ft line is interpreted as a lack of confidence in the quarterback.
Quote:
In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428739 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.
They are paying him below starter salary for this year.
you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?
Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?
I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?
That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd
Quote:
In comment 15428765 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428739 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.
They are paying him below starter salary for this year.
you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?
Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?
I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?
That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd
right, but they didnt have to up his salary
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
I like the path Cincy, Arizona, SD, and Buffalo are on.
I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone.
I made that comment and i hope that Giants coaches are at fault for that. You mean to tell me Jones has had the green light this whole time and only threw 11 TDs last year and is right on track to do that this year???!!!
OK how is that a good starting NFL QB then????
Quote:
In comment 15428774 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15428765 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428739 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.
They are paying him below starter salary for this year.
you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?
Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?
I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?
That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd
right, but they didnt have to up his salary
What are you saying? They didn’t up anything the $18 million value of the option is pre determined.
Quote:
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
End of fucking story.
No more Garret excuses.
No more excuses!
He will not be an NFL QB unless he figures this out.
Quote:
In comment 15428801 Debaser said:
Quote:
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
see unlike you i can have a conversation and make an opinion about another player without having to bring up the Giants or Jones..
Jones has nothing to do with Darnold, my view on Jones has nothing to do with my view on Darnold
Quote:
In comment 15428801 Debaser said:
Quote:
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent
Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?
Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.
I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
Quote:
In comment 15428811 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428801 Debaser said:
Quote:
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
Whose paying Jones 18 million?
They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..
I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent
Yea but he didn't. There is no hypothetical needed. Jones went 0-3 against some very weak teams this year. In his 3rd year with the same team.
Darnold gets traded for a 2nd and 4th is making below avg salary this year but in bbi logic that is too generous. Like WTF? (He is starting in the NFL). Darnold even gets benched.
you really don't see the difference of treatment both by posters here and by coaches and owners?
Quote:
Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?
Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.
I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.
I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.
see my post above. I understand the alignment point but both then and now their "fully aligned team" oddly hitched their wagon to Darnold over other better options. while things certainly looked better at 3-0 I believe it had been mentioned in that thread that Darnold's outings vs. the Jets and Houston in particular werent all that impressive. He was still making the same kind of play he made yesterday in the RZ with the Bradberry INT - which has always been his achilles heel.
Comparisons to Carolina, Arizona, the Chargers….are useless.
If they still want to : run the ball, stop the run , get to the QB, or, throw the ball to a bevy of great receivers; or, have a rock solid D and an adequate O; or….whatever; draft well to whatever identity they want, coach well to that identity, and be the GIANTS opponents respect.
That’d be a nice change from the last 12+years.