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do we still want to be the Panthers?

nygiants16 : 10/25/2021 8:27 am
2nd straight year they started fast and have now crashed and burned.

Not aure i am jealous or want to be the Panthers
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I made that thread..  
Sean : 10/25/2021 12:03 pm : link
And, my main point of the thread was organizational alignment. The Panthers had (and still do) an owner-GM-HC who all appear to be lockstep in their long term plan.

I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.

I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.
RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already  
nygiants16 : 10/25/2021 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15428765 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428739 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.



They are paying him below starter salary for this year.




you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?



Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?


I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?
Daniel Jones has played  
joeinpa : 10/25/2021 12:17 pm : link
Mostly good football this season; (My opinion shared by quite a few others who cover the team for a living)

Daniel Jones is fun to watch and easy to root for, (again my opinion)

Daniel Jones will be the quarterback for this team next season, (not a fact, but a very high probability)

Fact, His critics here will continue to be relentless in their posts trying to get us to admit they are right about him and our hope for him is misplaced.

But, If you are an anti Jones guy, and twist every single thing he does, even his positive moments, to fit a negative narrative, never saying anything positive about him , you lack objectivity and eventually your pt of view falls on deaf ears.

I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone. It s pathetic that trying to run in from the 1 ft line is interpreted as a lack of confidence in the quarterback.

OK  
Debaser : 10/25/2021 12:17 pm : link
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already  
ajr2456 : 10/25/2021 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15428774 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428765 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428739 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.



They are paying him below starter salary for this year.




you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?



Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?



I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?


That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already  
nygiants16 : 10/25/2021 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15428804 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428774 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428765 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428739 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.



They are paying him below starter salary for this year.




you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?



Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?



I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?



That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd


right, but they didnt have to up his salary
RE: OK  
nygiants16 : 10/25/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15428801 Debaser said:
Quote:
so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????


Whose paying Jones 18 million?

They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..

I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him
RE: I don’t wanna be the Panthers  
Thegratefulhead : 10/25/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15428379 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Nor do I want to be the giants…

I like the path Cincy, Arizona, SD, and Buffalo are on.
I see a pattern and I agree.
RE: Daniel Jones has played  
Debaser : 10/25/2021 12:24 pm : link
Quote:


I ve reached that pt. It s hard to have a meaningful discussion when someone suggests the Giants are afraid to allow Daniel to throw in the red zone.


I made that comment and i hope that Giants coaches are at fault for that. You mean to tell me Jones has had the green light this whole time and only threw 11 TDs last year and is right on track to do that this year???!!!

OK how is that a good starting NFL QB then????
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: i've asked you multiple times already  
ajr2456 : 10/25/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15428810 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428774 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428765 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428759 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428739 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428726 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how is that trade a song when the trade has been terrible for the Panthers? Its a very simple question with a very simple answer.



They are paying him below starter salary for this year.




you realize they upped his salary for next year and will be mamong 18 million right?



Ok so what do you expect a starting NFL QB to make in his 5th year? And like what did you want them to do?



I dont know, maybe wait to see what he did this year, pick up his option and then go from there?



That’s not how fifth year options work. They had to decide May 3rd



right, but they didnt have to up his salary


What are you saying? They didn’t up anything the $18 million value of the option is pre determined.
RE: RE: OK  
Debaser : 10/25/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15428811 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428801 Debaser said:


Quote:


so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????



Whose paying Jones 18 million?

They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..

I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him


OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?
Jones is allowed to audible  
Thegratefulhead : 10/25/2021 12:28 pm : link
Get them into the right play in the red zone and execute.

End of fucking story.

No more Garret excuses.

No more excuses!

He will not be an NFL QB unless he figures this out.


RE: RE: RE: OK  
nygiants16 : 10/25/2021 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15428825 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428811 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428801 Debaser said:


Quote:


so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????



Whose paying Jones 18 million?

They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..

I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him



OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?


see unlike you i can have a conversation and make an opinion about another player without having to bring up the Giants or Jones..

Jones has nothing to do with Darnold, my view on Jones has nothing to do with my view on Darnold
RE: RE: RE: OK  
BigBlueShock : 10/25/2021 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15428825 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15428811 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428801 Debaser said:


Quote:


so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????



Whose paying Jones 18 million?

They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..

I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him



OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?

That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent
RE: RE: here's a little hypothetical for those criticizing the OP  
bw in dc : 10/25/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15428633 Debaser said:
Quote:

Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?



Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.

I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: OK  
Debaser : 10/25/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15428839 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15428825 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15428811 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15428801 Debaser said:


Quote:


so you trade for a guy who was a legit top 10 pick just a few years ago. He played on like the worst franchises in the NFL in terms of coaching; oline ; and receivers etc. You get him for 2nd and 4th ; you get him for 4 mil this year -- well below the avg league starters ; you have to pay him 18 mil again the league standard overall getting him cheap but, that is not good????? But you'll gladly hand that over to Jones who has 1/2 as many TDs and fewer wins who you pretty much know what you have???????



Whose paying Jones 18 million?

They traded for a qb who has been terrible, why would you up his salary? there was no reason to..

I dont get why you keep bring Jones into this, it has nothing tl do with him



OK great you have your opinion and that is Darnold is awful. I don't believe for one second it isn't influenced by Jones and the fact the Giants passed on Darnold. When Darnold was 3-0 ; looking good throwing TDs and 300 yards this year -- was it that obvious that he sucked?


That 3-0 start included the Jets, Texans and a Saints team missing numerous starters. Have you seen the Jets and Texans play football this season? You cannot possibly talk about that start without putting into context the teams he played. That’s the first thing you’d point out if Jones had done his damage against those teams then fell on his face when the tougher competition came up on the schedule. At least be consistent


Yea but he didn't. There is no hypothetical needed. Jones went 0-3 against some very weak teams this year. In his 3rd year with the same team.

Darnold gets traded for a 2nd and 4th is making below avg salary this year but in bbi logic that is too generous. Like WTF? (He is starting in the NFL). Darnold even gets benched.
you really don't see the difference of treatment both by posters here and by coaches and owners?
RE: RE: RE: here's a little hypothetical for those criticizing the OP  
HomerJones45 : 10/25/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15428841 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15428633 Debaser said:


Quote:



Do you think you are jumping the gun a little on Darnold? He played 2 bad games. Were you quick to point out how bad the Giants picked at #6 for Jones after how he played against the Cowboys and Rams?





Darnold's last three QBRs are 16,34 and 11. That is putrid.

I honestly think he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now outside of the rookie QBs playing.
Yeah, he's a hot mess right now.
How Am I supposed to prove this anyway without making a comparison?  
Debaser : 10/25/2021 2:09 pm : link
It's like proving a negative. Darnold sucks so he would only be a good trade if he was being paid 20 bucks an hour? Is that what I am expected to say?

Sean  
Eric on Li : 10/25/2021 6:11 pm : link
In comment 15428770 Sean said:
Quote:
And, my main point of the thread was organizational alignment. The Panthers had (and still do) an owner-GM-HC who all appear to be lockstep in their long term plan.

I like Judge, but the narrative here is much different. We have many people talking about how the new GM should have say in who the new HC is. The GM is a lame duck. From that standpoint, it is frustrating.

I’ll say this: both Judge and Rhule have 8-15 career records, but the narrative on each coach is much, much different.


see my post above. I understand the alignment point but both then and now their "fully aligned team" oddly hitched their wagon to Darnold over other better options. while things certainly looked better at 3-0 I believe it had been mentioned in that thread that Darnold's outings vs. the Jets and Houston in particular werent all that impressive. He was still making the same kind of play he made yesterday in the RZ with the Bradberry INT - which has always been his achilles heel.
Sure...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/25/2021 6:34 pm : link
If they end up with Watson.
I want the giants  
Joe Beckwith : 10/25/2021 11:23 pm : link
to be the GIANTS.

Comparisons to Carolina, Arizona, the Chargers….are useless.

If they still want to : run the ball, stop the run , get to the QB, or, throw the ball to a bevy of great receivers; or, have a rock solid D and an adequate O; or….whatever; draft well to whatever identity they want, coach well to that identity, and be the GIANTS opponents respect.
That’d be a nice change from the last 12+years.
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