I think the majority of us want to move on from DG. However, I am not hearing any alternatives discussed.
Who would you REALISTICALLY replace Gettleman with? It needs to be someone who is not already a GM for another team and someone who in theory would/could take the job.
This may be a more difficult hire than a head coach.
You’d rather the Giants be poorly run out of spite?
That's the culture of the organization.
That's the culture of the organization.
You are on a Giants fan message board. Fans are generally happy when their teams wins. We know you aren't, and that's fine. However, it doesn't mean that many of those same fans don't also know there is more to see and more to expect before stamping this team as a "good" one. It's a process, but it's a process that starts with winning, not losing, as you seem to think.
Quote:
Look around this message board today. People are dying for any excuse to believe good things are happening. I think Mara is of a similar mindset. He'll consider every excuse, every extenuating circumstance, in order to feed his hope.
That's the culture of the organization.
You are on a Giants fan message board. Fans are generally happy when their teams wins. We know you aren't, and that's fine. However, it doesn't mean that many of those same fans don't also know there is more to see and more to expect before stamping this team as a "good" one. It's a process, but it's a process that starts with winning, not losing, as you seem to think.
It’s a process that starts with having competent management and good players. Random wins in a bad season doesn’t do anything. We hear this thing about momentum and learning to win every random winning streak every year and go right back to being terrible the next year.
I'm not sure he'd be interested, but yeah, he'd be aa terrific hire. Make the call at least.
That's the culture of the organization.
I just don’t see it. At best we are looking at 6-11, if everything broke right MAYBE 7-10. But, I do think that will be enough to elevate Abrams/Pettit which is disappointing.
Mock it all you want, but it is something we do far too little of. Almost every team in the league uses analytics, but DG has a couple of guys in the basement running security patches.
Quote:
dabbling in football...because...analytics!
Mock it all you want, but it is something we do far too little of. Almost every team in the league uses analytics, but DG has a couple of guys in the basement running security patches.
Yea great. Why would I want this guy? Part of a front office that took Baker Mayfield over Allen and Jackson, right?
You are on a Giants fan message board. Fans are generally happy when their teams wins. We know you aren't, and that's fine. However, it doesn't mean that many of those same fans don't also know there is more to see and more to expect before stamping this team as a "good" one. It's a process, but it's a process that starts with winning, not losing, as you seem to think.
We're fans on a message board, it doesn't matter what any of us, including Terps thinks. What matters is what management thinks, and I'm afraid GT is a lot closer to being right than many here. John Mara will look for any excuse to keep things the way they are.
Maybe DG retires after the season anyway, but Mara will promote from within and talk about the need for "continuity", how we had a good foundation if not for injuries.
That's the culture of the organization.
I mentioned this yesterday, too. The excuse clouds are slowly forming over Met. If we are anywhere near .500, I expect the gang to all be back in town next year. It's easy to see Mara using injuries and saying he's seen the "progress" he wanted...
Quote:
Look around this message board today. People are dying for any excuse to believe good things are happening. I think Mara is of a similar mindset. He'll consider every excuse, every extenuating circumstance, in order to feed his hope.
That's the culture of the organization.
I just don’t see it. At best we are looking at 6-11, if everything broke right MAYBE 7-10. But, I do think that will be enough to elevate Abrams/Pettit which is disappointing.
Don't underestimate Mara's capability for rationalization. He's stupid enough to think the reason for the 2-5 record is injuries. I can absolutely see them running this back with the same cast of characters next year. Nothing would surprise me.
Ok fine, I jumped the gun and he wasn’t there. My mistake.
Quote:
Heres an idea: get some facts, start from there. Sound good?
Ok fine, I jumped the gun and he wasn’t there. My mistake.
I want the GM to have a plan to build the team from the line of scrimmage outward on both sides of the ball. I want the GM to have the courage to dump a draft pick if that player is not working out. What is worse than a bad pick is not cutting bait once you realize it.
Not even sure reaching a .500 record or close to it is enough. The play on the field has to be convincingly strong in coming up with those wins.
In other words, no chance if the decision-maker has a brain...
Start winning....and Shirley Temple would be fine
I got a slightly different take from Mara's comments. That is, no changes, Gettleman will be back as GM.
Actually - a guy like that might have appeal to Mara for the wrong reasons.
He'd fit very well as someone Mara can trot out to the public as "see, I'm getting a top line analytics guy to be our GM, and he has no previous Giants ties".
But! His lack of personnel experience would mean that he'd simply be providing those analytics to Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell to make the real decisions, so the overall status quo remains in the front office, just with one extra new dimension.
I want the GM to have a plan to build the team from the line of scrimmage outward on both sides of the ball. I want the GM to have the courage to dump a draft pick if that player is not working out. What is worse than a bad pick is not cutting bait once you realize it.
Gettleman doesn't even have a grasp of simple stuff like "don't draft a RB with the #2 overall pick. Ever. Especially when the offensive line is broken."
Quote:
Ozzie Newsome .... Actually I'd hire him to run the entire show ....
Ozzie is special. Too bad he's too old and won't come here. I'd hire one of the execs in their organization though.
I would hire him to come in and reshape the front office. Name a new gm and give him a generic title like the Clippers gave Jerry West. He probably won't want to do it, but the challenge of it and the ability to give opportunities for those that worked for him may be enough of a draw..
I put "realistically" in all caps in the opening post.
Quote:
.
I agree - Joe Horitz.
The Ravens have developed a team that has exhibited total domination on both sides of the ball. In 2019 the Ravens went 14-2. I did a query at stathead.com on teams since 1991 that had
Yds/Rushing Att >= 4,
Opp Yds/Rushing Att <= 3.2
3rd Down Conv Pct >= 60
Opponent 3rd Down Conv Pct <= 49,
Passer Rating >= 90,
Opp Passer Rating <= 86
Turnover Margin >= 0,
The Ravens are the only team that had 3 such games in a season (2019). The Giants had one such game in 2009 when they defeated Tampa 24-0. The Giants heal Tamp to zero third down conversions and the time of possession was 43 to 16.
The Ravens Director of Player Personnel Joe Hortiz has spent 23 seasons with the Ravens. Hortiz, who joined the organization in 1998, spent eight years as a scout for Baltimore, covering the Northeast and Southeast regions before becoming a national scout for three seasons (2006-08). In 2009 he was promoted to director of college scouting.In 2019 he was promoted to Baltimore Ravens Director of Player Personnel. Here is the Ravens top personnel on Player Personnel
Player Personnel
Eric DeCosta Executive Vice President & General Manager
Ozzie Newsome Executive Vice President
Pat Moriarty Senior Vice President of Football Operations
Joe Hortiz Director of Player Personnel
George Kokinis Director of Player Personnel
While Hortiz was director of college scouting, the Ravens selected good players such as Lamar Jackson, tackle Orlando Brown Jr., left tackle Ronnie Stanley, tight end Mark Andrews, and cornerback Jimmy Smith. The Ravens are also one of the most analytics-friendly teams in the NFL. The Ravens are a team with great depth. They are one of the most injured teams in 2021 and yet have a 5-2 record.
Here's some more good info:
Joe Hortiz and the Ravens' "20/20 Club" - ( New Window )
Here's some more good info:
Joe Hortiz and the Ravens' "20/20 Club" - ( New Window )
okay, now here are the follow up questions...
1. Would Mara even consider this guy?
2. Why would he want to be a GM for the Giants?
The second question is the hardest one to answer. If John Mara does meddle too much, then anyone who is serious about improving the team would not go near this franchise.
How many people here know who the owner of the Ravens is?
Quote:
Here's some more good info:
Joe Hortiz and the Ravens' "20/20 Club" - ( New Window )
okay, now here are the follow up questions...
1. Would Mara even consider this guy?
2. Why would he want to be a GM for the Giants?
The second question is the hardest one to answer. If John Mara does meddle too much, then anyone who is serious about improving the team would not go near this franchise.
How many people here know who the owner of the Ravens is?
To answer number 2, the opportunity to get a job as a GM doesn’t come around often. There’s only what like 6 or 7 openings a year max?
I had to look him up. My point is the fact that most do not know who owns the team likely also means he is staying out of the day to day.... which is a good thing.
Refreshing.
He is playing fantasy football with this team....
... and he would likely not make the playoffs in any of my fantasy football leagues.
Quote:
I hope the Giants win 4-5 in a row and this thread goes away.
You’d rather the Giants be poorly run out of spite?
Uh no? I’d rather they win games. Did you miss the 4-5 game winning streak I’m hoping for?
I want to win. I kind of don’t give a shit who the GM is because far too often the GM is a side show to the real story.
I don’t know if DG is stepping down or getting fired or what. I just want to win.
Quote:
In comment 15428721 djm said:
Quote:
I hope the Giants win 4-5 in a row and this thread goes away.
You’d rather the Giants be poorly run out of spite?
Uh no? I’d rather they win games. Did you miss the 4-5 game winning streak I’m hoping for?
What benefit did that do for the team last year? We still need a new GM whether this team wins four games in a row or not. The threads are relevant.
Refreshing.
Well, there is more to that story. Newsome and DeCosta, especially DeCosta, did a lot of homework on LJax and pounced to get back into the first round when LJax was still there at the bottom of the first round.
And that was driven by the fact they had a coaching staff in place that had coached similar players in Michael Vick (Urban in Philly) and Colin Kap (Greg Roman in San Fran). So they felt they could structure an offense to fit LJax instead of trying to fit LJax around the offense already in place for Flacco.
It was a bold move and showed how a good organization can adapt with the times.
Refreshing.
No one loves Mike Lombardi as much as Mike Lombardi.
He had some comments not too long ago that were accurate about the Giants being stuck in the past. I'll grant him that. But whenever I listen to him, he ALWAYS brings up his link to BB or Al Davis back in his glory days, as if Lombardi was some right hand lieutenant.