My non-emotional thoughts from yesterday's game. As always feel free to add your own, comment on mine etc...
25-3 win against a team that I have a very hard time describing. A month ago the media was lauding them as contenders and Matt Rhule was being talked about as the genius that turned around yet another team in year 2. Flash forward a month and Matty Nice's team is getting destroyed by one coached by Tommy Toughnuts which has looked about as bad as an NFL team could over the past 2 weeks. Carolina isn't as good as everyone thought they were a month ago and maybe the Giants aren't as bad as we thought they were the last 2 weeks.
This again brings up an old saying that I love "You're never as good as you look when you win and you're never as bad as you look when you lose."
On to the game:
As we haven't had many the last couple of weeks, I'll start with some kudos
- I'm the first to criticize the guy so I need to be the first to give him credit when its due, given the fact that our offense was a glorified practice squad unit this week, I thought Garret did a very good job using what he had and coming up with a game plan that worked with the talent of what we had left on the field
- One thing Carolina does do is disrupt the QB. To be able to drop back 33 times and only take 2 sacks with a line that features Matt Peart and Nate Solder at tackles is pretty darn good. Garrett moved Jones around the pocket, gave him quick reads and really called a game I wish he would have called against Denver in week 1. Some credit to Rob Sale here too, he's done a good coaching job with a line that's on its 4th string LG, missing its center and now has its best player out for a few games
- Rather than waiting for someone in particular to step up the approach was taken to spread the ball around. Yesterday 9 different receivers, including Jones, caught a ball for the Giants. No one was keyed into, no one was the focal point of the game plan
- On the topic of Jones, very good game from him despite not being statistically impressive. This is the "clean" game we've all been waiting for from him
- In a game where your opponent scored only 3 its hard to ignore the defense. Is Darnold a great QB with great weapons? Not at all, but holding a team to 3 points in the NFL is hard regardless of who is playing so kudos here
- What changed from week to week? For starters, the level of competition, this isn't as much as a knock on Carolina as it is a compliment to Dallas/LA. But the defense did their job, didn't miss tackles and didn't have any break downs in coverage. Much like Jones, this was a "Clean" game by them
- Part of getting good is winning matchups that you should win, with this in mind I'm looking at Ojulari. For the most part this season Azeez has done one of two things, flashed or disappeared. He has good bend and closes fast on the QB but lack of a secondary move and power presence cause him to disappear. Yesterday he played against a lesser tackle and did his job, which was to continuously beat his man. Great game by the rookie, lets see him start doing it against some better competition now
- After getting gashed in the run game the past few weeks the defense tightened up this week. Many are pointing to Shelton being out of the line up and I don't have all 22 access to elaborate, but what was obvious to the naked eye is that tackling was better
- I've noticed a trend on the defense where they tend to be over aggressive about going for the ball when they tackle. This is fine, but you need to control your guy first. I notice that this didn't seem as prevalent yesterday and wonder out loud if emphasis was put on this in practice
- To end the kudos I want to give a shout out to Graham Gano for now owning the Giants records on FGs made from + 50
Did the kudos, now onto the bad
- Completely conceding that we have back ups on the o-line and at starting RB, the lack of a running game is concerning. The stat lines don't look bad but remember that 19 rushing yards (and a TD) came at the end of the game when Carolina was pretty much done, another 28 yards came from our QB. We also couldn't line up and punch it in on the goal line...
- On the goal line comment. 3 field goals and a stop on the 1 for the day. If you were to ask me my number 1 concern about our offense its our red zone production. Despite scoring 25 it wasn't any better today. Its for sure an Achilles heal...
- I love the fact that Jones is a good athlete and that Garrett is starting to be more creative in using him, but also look at the fact that he's missed games every season he's played and ask myself how comfortable I am with relying on him in the running game. Right now we're forced to do this, I get it, moving forward if this kids going to be our franchise QB I'd rather see him use his legs like Aaron Rogers, not Lamar Jackson
- I'm trying to find some bad about the defense but they gave up 3 points, so pretty hard. The only real take away here is to be mindful of the competition they were up against. This wasn't the Rams...
Closing thoughts: I think my dad said it best the second the game ended with "now we have to spend the week hearing about how they're going to the Super Bowl". In other words we're back to the roller coaster of highs and lows, though the highs are better. The next step in this teams development is consistency from week to week, none of this "who knows what team is showing up" type stuff. We're 2-5, I'm not kidding myself about a playoff run but I'm looking for something that tells me as a fan that the ship is in the right direction. Consistent play to to the talent level of the roster (or better) is all I ask. 2 hard games coming, us fans have no expectations of going 2-0 but dear god don't give us another Cowboys/Rams repeat.
The Giants have for years been overestimating the significance of wins against decimated teams with very bad QBs. It’s literally a pattern here.
This win doesn’t mean s*^t,
CAR certainly wasn't Dallas or LAR, but still, the defense played much better. Not saying we beat either of those teams with the D playing like it did yesterday, but it would have been more competitive. We'll get an idea of how improved the D is this week, you can be sure Andy Reid will be dialing things up against his old NFCE foes.
Hearing him mention injuries made me wince. The goal is to win the Super Bowl, with everyone healthy we're nowhere near being a Super Bowl team. Don't use the "when we get healthy" excuse, make the changes that need to be made and get your franchise back to respectability. Hopefully someone keeps reality in check for Mr. Mara.
The Giants have for years been overestimating the significance of wins against decimated teams with very bad QBs. It’s literally a pattern here.
This win doesn’t mean s*^t,
So a decimated Giants team beating a decimated Panthers team shows nothing. If they had lost would you have dismissed the performance as well?
More importantly regarding QB play. Watching Darnold play should remind everyone that drafting a franchise QB is a perilous task. Made even riskier when you do not have the pieces in place to allow for success.
Quote:
We're going to have to face facts, the Giants need to beat good teams consistently next. Hearing Mara focus his brief comments on injuries is only going to fan the flames, as doing a 180 could be a mistake that wastes another season in the bigger picture.
Hearing him mention injuries made me wince. The goal is to win the Super Bowl, with everyone healthy we're nowhere near being a Super Bowl team. Don't use the "when we get healthy" excuse, make the changes that need to be made and get your franchise back to respectability. Hopefully someone keeps reality in check for Mr. Mara.
If he would step away from football decisions, I'm all for a RahRah owner.
But...I know, he's trying to do both.
The offense stepped up and the defense executed, where up until now they have not.
They should be doing this all the time because it plays to Jones strengths.
Like you, I am concerned about the additional hits he takes, but if he learns to slide that will help. He also took a nasty hit to the head on that circus catch yesterday.
Yesterday we got away with it. Against KC I doubt this conservative play calling works very well
we will get creamed
Garrett has to go
CAR certainly wasn't Dallas or LAR, but still, the defense played much better. Not saying we beat either of those teams with the D playing like it did yesterday, but it would have been more competitive. We'll get an idea of how improved the D is this week, you can be sure Andy Reid will be dialing things up against his old NFCE foes.
It would have looked different if Toney had been throwing that pass.
Quote:
as a change of pace, but only 4-5x per game. He did a good job yesterday getting out of bounds or sliding. What I'm not OK with is using him as a receiver. The guys throwing to him are not professional passers, and him stretching for a pass leaves him vulnerable. As fun as that catch was, no more of that, thank you.
CAR certainly wasn't Dallas or LAR, but still, the defense played much better. Not saying we beat either of those teams with the D playing like it did yesterday, but it would have been more competitive. We'll get an idea of how improved the D is this week, you can be sure Andy Reid will be dialing things up against his old NFCE foes.
It would have looked different if Toney had been throwing that pass.
Probably, maybe I'm too old school, but I do not want to see my QB stretching out to catch a pass. He's leaving himself open to a big hit.
Quote:
We're going to have to face facts, the Giants need to beat good teams consistently next. Hearing Mara focus his brief comments on injuries is only going to fan the flames, as doing a 180 could be a mistake that wastes another season in the bigger picture.
Hearing him mention injuries made me wince. The goal is to win the Super Bowl, with everyone healthy we're nowhere near being a Super Bowl team. Don't use the "when we get healthy" excuse, make the changes that need to be made and get your franchise back to respectability. Hopefully someone keeps reality in check for Mr. Mara.
I suppose it's the aftermath of putting 07/11 in the rear view mirror, while management has really struggled since then with coach hires, draft and pro personnel scouting, the cap, you name it. They've got to get stronger football accumen in the building, and hearing the top dog talk about injuries is just more of the recent history repeating itself.
Quote:
as a change of pace, but only 4-5x per game. He did a good job yesterday getting out of bounds or sliding. What I'm not OK with is using him as a receiver. The guys throwing to him are not professional passers, and him stretching for a pass leaves him vulnerable. As fun as that catch was, no more of that, thank you.
CAR certainly wasn't Dallas or LAR, but still, the defense played much better. Not saying we beat either of those teams with the D playing like it did yesterday, but it would have been more competitive. We'll get an idea of how improved the D is this week, you can be sure Andy Reid will be dialing things up against his old NFCE foes.
It would have looked different if Toney had been throwing that pass.
I agrfee to an extent. but I def find his aversion is not to throwing deep, but throwing deep when the Olineis particularly overmatched.
I think to a degree that is smart, but you have to take shots.
I think judge and by extension garret get very conservative when they are overmatched at the LOS. Again, there is some sense to it, but i think they go too far.
I think some of it was protecting Jones, but I feel like he has proven to be the least problem on offense. Also, he has done a great job of not turning it over for about 10-12 games (last week being an exception)
This again brings up an old saying that I love "You're never as good as you look when you win and you're never as bad as you look when you lose."
Garrett needs to revamp his Red Zone plays asap.....he has done much better between the 20s
At this point I think many folks, probably a hefty majority, already have their opinion of Jones and filter the evidence to fit that view rather than objectively watching him play and letting the evidence mount. Every game is a referendum and further ammunition for either camp when in truth, which is understandably frustrating as we're into year 3, the jury is still out.
I commented on this earlier...
1. Playing Houston and the Jets early helped skewed those stats.
2. They gave up 250 yards rushing toe he Cowboys.
3. They gave up nearly 600 yards to the Vikings.
4. They were missing their captain and best defender yesterday.
Burns and Reddick are very good - but dont have much after that. Chim has disappointed this year for them.
Quote:
discounting the game Jones played because of the "competition" need to take a look at Carolina's defensive ranking coming into this game.
Our defense held them to three points. He had many opportunities with great field position. That is not sustainable against good teams. Even the best defense usually breaks when their O only scores 3 and gives up a safety.
Did you see who was playing WR for us yesterday? Or that Thomas was missing and Barkley?
I used Rogers specifically because you notice that what he does best in the pocket isn't really throwing while scrambling (he can do it, don't get me wrong) but moving to a safe spot, almost resetting the pocket and going back through his reads. I'd love to see Jones develop that skill.
The running is a weapon for sure and its great to have it in your pocket, we'd just be much better off to have a conventional running game and protect him better.
Quote:
The problem is Jones isn't an improv thrower/on the run creator the way Rodgers is. I cant remember who posted it but Jones is statistically at his worst throwing the ball when he's scrambling. He can throw and he can run. But he really struggles when he's trying to do both. Its kind of a strange combination when you think about it. Its going to take a creative play caller to get the most out of him and doing so will absolutely carry the injury risk we've already seen.
I used Rogers specifically because you notice that what he does best in the pocket isn't really throwing while scrambling (he can do it, don't get me wrong) but moving to a safe spot, almost resetting the pocket and going back through his reads. I'd love to see Jones develop that skill.
The running is a weapon for sure and its great to have it in your pocket, we'd just be much better off to have a conventional running game and protect him better.
Understood and maybe not unfeasible because he does fin with designed roll outs and moving the pocket. It's when it breaks down that he struggles. Makes me wonder if it's a processing/thinking on the fly thing because it's been a pretty consistent knock on him.
Personally I hope he's The Guy. He's easy to root for. I think there are still some questions to be answered though.
Quote:
discounting the game Jones played because of the "competition" need to take a look at Carolina's defensive ranking coming into this game.
At this point I think many folks, probably a hefty majority, already have their opinion of Jones and filter the evidence to fit that view rather than objectively watching him play and letting the evidence mount. Every game is a referendum and further ammunition for either camp when in truth, which is understandably frustrating as we're into year 3, the jury is still out.
Agree 100% with this. There are about 5 people on BBI who's opinion of Jones changes when they watch him play. The vast majority on here have already decided that he sucks / is awesome.
No evidence either way will distract them from that determination.
8 extra point attempts
quite the ratio...
Two problems here:
1. Garrett calls too many plays that leave Jones exposed to big hits
2. Jones hasn't learned how to avoid contact
And Rodgers is a good point of reference. He never seems like he's in danger and knows how to take what he can get. With Jones however, I'm holding my breath that he doesn't get his clock cleaned every game.
Also, adding some kudos for our extremely expensive secondary - they delivered the kind of game you hope for when you drop that kind of money on defensive backs. I guess?
Garrett needs to do something down on the goal line. That was shear incompetent play calling down there.
Quote:
In comment 15428757 j_rud said:
Quote:
The problem is Jones isn't an improv thrower/on the run creator the way Rodgers is. I cant remember who posted it but Jones is statistically at his worst throwing the ball when he's scrambling. He can throw and he can run. But he really struggles when he's trying to do both. Its kind of a strange combination when you think about it. Its going to take a creative play caller to get the most out of him and doing so will absolutely carry the injury risk we've already seen.
I used Rogers specifically because you notice that what he does best in the pocket isn't really throwing while scrambling (he can do it, don't get me wrong) but moving to a safe spot, almost resetting the pocket and going back through his reads. I'd love to see Jones develop that skill.
The running is a weapon for sure and its great to have it in your pocket, we'd just be much better off to have a conventional running game and protect him better.
Understood and maybe not unfeasible because he does fin with designed roll outs and moving the pocket. It's when it breaks down that he struggles. Makes me wonder if it's a processing/thinking on the fly thing because it's been a pretty consistent knock on him.
Personally I hope he's The Guy. He's easy to root for. I think there are still some questions to be answered though.
Jones threw very well on the run yesterday
Quote:
In comment 15429120 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428757 j_rud said:
Quote:
The problem is Jones isn't an improv thrower/on the run creator the way Rodgers is. I cant remember who posted it but Jones is statistically at his worst throwing the ball when he's scrambling. He can throw and he can run. But he really struggles when he's trying to do both. Its kind of a strange combination when you think about it. Its going to take a creative play caller to get the most out of him and doing so will absolutely carry the injury risk we've already seen.
I used Rogers specifically because you notice that what he does best in the pocket isn't really throwing while scrambling (he can do it, don't get me wrong) but moving to a safe spot, almost resetting the pocket and going back through his reads. I'd love to see Jones develop that skill.
The running is a weapon for sure and its great to have it in your pocket, we'd just be much better off to have a conventional running game and protect him better.
Understood and maybe not unfeasible because he does fin with designed roll outs and moving the pocket. It's when it breaks down that he struggles. Makes me wonder if it's a processing/thinking on the fly thing because it's been a pretty consistent knock on him.
Personally I hope he's The Guy. He's easy to root for. I think there are still some questions to be answered though.
Jones threw very well on the run yesterday
Quote:
In comment 15429125 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 15429120 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15428757 j_rud said:
Quote:
The problem is Jones isn't an improv thrower/on the run creator the way Rodgers is. I cant remember who posted it but Jones is statistically at his worst throwing the ball when he's scrambling. He can throw and he can run. But he really struggles when he's trying to do both. Its kind of a strange combination when you think about it. Its going to take a creative play caller to get the most out of him and doing so will absolutely carry the injury risk we've already seen.
I used Rogers specifically because you notice that what he does best in the pocket isn't really throwing while scrambling (he can do it, don't get me wrong) but moving to a safe spot, almost resetting the pocket and going back through his reads. I'd love to see Jones develop that skill.
The running is a weapon for sure and its great to have it in your pocket, we'd just be much better off to have a conventional running game and protect him better.
Understood and maybe not unfeasible because he does fin with designed roll outs and moving the pocket. It's when it breaks down that he struggles. Makes me wonder if it's a processing/thinking on the fly thing because it's been a pretty consistent knock on him.
Personally I hope he's The Guy. He's easy to root for. I think there are still some questions to be answered though.
Jones threw very well on the run yesterday
On the designed roll outs sure. I'd have to watch again but in the past he's struggled when he needs to improvise. Like I said I can't remember who posted the numbers but his stats when he's scrambling are far and away his worst.
I remember those comment too from weeks ago. However rewatch the game, or read the detailed play summary, he threw really well. Yes some were planned rollouts to compensate for the weak OL, but that is still throwing on the run. There were also others, like that pass to Booker that went for like 20 yds, where he was scrambling.
I thought LW and Sexy Dexy played with purpose. As they should have! Yeah, Darnold blows. But at least the defense romped. Bring on the Chefs!
One can admit that much of this has to do with injuries and still balance this out with a recognition that issues exist even when healthy.