Today on WFAN with “Mark and Maggie” Banks said you can win a championship with DJ. Now before everyone who hates the Jones pick,remember to blame Gettleman for that. Banks went on to say that biggest change with Jones is his command of the offense. He has the tools necessary to be very effective at this level and he wants to win. He called Jones the best player on the team. I have had a wait and see attitude and always felt Jones was in a tough situation to make a definitive evaluation. I know there are some that don’t like the pick but there is a consensus building in the media that Jones is the Guy. That is important in NYC.
And don’t pretend like you weren’t trying to agitate—putting it kindly—other posters here for Eli losing a lot of games. He played on worse teams with worse receivers. Shep is a #3 guy here now. And just as bad oline
But yea just what I need contradicting another guy slobbing jones knob every week when he is losing a lot and not really that good.
That is one possible interpretation. But why are his numbers so bad if he is able to neutralize pressure?
And don’t pretend like you weren’t trying to agitate—putting it kindly—other posters here for Eli losing a lot of games. He played on worse teams with worse receivers. Shep is a #3 guy here now. And just as bad oline
But yea just what I need contradicting another guy slobbing jones knob every week when he is losing a lot and not really that good.
Wtf are you talking about. Eli had OBJ.
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In comment 15429245 UConn4523 said:
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what’s the solution? He’s traded for whatever we get and we have a clean slate heading into the 2022 offseason - now what?
Lots of exciting options probably available after the season - Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Muellens, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, Tua, Jimmy G, Goff, Fitzmagic. Might even be able to get ryan finley out of his contract with meineke car care. you won't have to pay a lot but you will get a lot.
Tua threw almost as many TDs yesterday as Jones threw in seven games.
He lost. Just like you are lost
Cherry pick stats? Hmm ok how about TDs? Is that some obscure QB stat?
11 last year not that many this year... 70 million dollar receivers;1st round draft pick receiver invested ; yet here we are 2-7.
Rest of the season? The point is to win games and go to the playoffs and win the SB. It isn’t to play meaningless games when you’ve shown after week three you’re not a playoff team after three games and not gotten better.
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In comment 15429257 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15429245 UConn4523 said:
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what’s the solution? He’s traded for whatever we get and we have a clean slate heading into the 2022 offseason - now what?
Lots of exciting options probably available after the season - Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Muellens, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, Tua, Jimmy G, Goff, Fitzmagic. Might even be able to get ryan finley out of his contract with meineke car care. you won't have to pay a lot but you will get a lot.
Tua threw almost as many TDs yesterday as Jones threw in seven games.
He lost. Just like you are lost
Wow you made a funny. I get it now, losing is ok as long as your stats are shit, like Jones. But if your stats are good and you lose, that's no good.
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Barring Jones wheels coming off, you might as well count on his option getting picked up. Looking forward to your daily Jones bashing posts in the future
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Producer I can't imagine what would ever make you think I was ever referencing you.
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In comment 15429505 Walker Gillette said:
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Producer I can't imagine what would ever make you think I was ever referencing you.
referring to you
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In comment 15429505 Walker Gillette said:
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Barring Jones wheels coming off, you might as well count on his option getting picked up. Looking forward to your daily Jones bashing posts in the future
If he plays like an elite QB I will praise him, not bash him. If he plays like a chump, I'll say that. It's not personal. I want the Giants to win the Super Bowl. I could care less if Jones is the QB for it or not. Unlike the Jones cult here.
No, they want to win with a loser. That's the Giants way. Pound the ball. Be tough. Win with defense. No fancy pants QB. If we don't win this way, what's the point of winning. it doesn't matter that the rules have changed and styles have changed, we must win the Giants way.
You haven't noticed the extreme reduction in turnovers since the middle of last year?
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In comment 15429513 Producer said:
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In comment 15429505 Walker Gillette said:
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Barring Jones wheels coming off, you might as well count on his option getting picked up. Looking forward to your daily Jones bashing posts in the future
If he plays like an elite QB I will praise him, not bash him. If he plays like a chump, I'll say that. It's not personal. I want the Giants to win the Super Bowl. I could care less if Jones is the QB for it or not. Unlike the Jones cult here.
I'm not gonna get into with you...but if you can name a better player on offense than Jones, that would to a long way toward your argument. The problem is, you can't...yet all your energy is spent shitting on the best player on this shitty offense. If these other players made any plays whatsoever, more people might be sympathetic to your argument
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Don’t you want a good QB? Don’t you want someone who can throw 50 yard bombs and like 4 tds AND win games? Don’t you want to go around drunk at the bars in manhattan on super bowl Sunday and have to call in sick the next day because you were celebrating the giants winning the super bowl?? You really think jones is magically going to start doing this while not turning the call over 40x
No, they want to win with a loser. That's the Giants way. Pound the ball. Be tough. Win with defense. No fancy pants QB. If we don't win this way, what's the point of winning. it doesn't matter that the rules have changed and styles have changed, we must win the Giants way.
One would think winning any way would suffice!
B) what type of WR we have
C) how many games they missed
D) what RBs we have had to keep pass rush honest
E) how some of you think you know more than banks, Simms or GMs
Just answer. How with the exception of 3 other QBs who can also move the rest would get killed.
F) someone like Tua wouldn’t last two games with this shit OL.
G) why not name the active WR on the roster and how many catches they have never mind touchdowns
H) why we are near the leaders in drop passes
I) penalties on OL which put us in long to go situations.
J) the only pass play we have are slants or roll outs cause of pass rush
K) yup it’s all on Jones.
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In comment 15429522 Debaser said:
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Don’t you want a good QB? Don’t you want someone who can throw 50 yard bombs and like 4 tds AND win games? Don’t you want to go around drunk at the bars in manhattan on super bowl Sunday and have to call in sick the next day because you were celebrating the giants winning the super bowl?? You really think jones is magically going to start doing this while not turning the call over 40x
No, they want to win with a loser. That's the Giants way. Pound the ball. Be tough. Win with defense. No fancy pants QB. If we don't win this way, what's the point of winning. it doesn't matter that the rules have changed and styles have changed, we must win the Giants way.
One would think winning any way would suffice!
Are we winning? I hadn't noticed.
Do you think denying the changes in the game is a smart strategy to win a championship? The other teams don't mind if the Giants have their heads up their asses. It's one less team to worry about. Sure let's take 5 years to figure out if the failed QB from Duke can transform into an elite NFL QB. It doesn't matter if he plays like Mitch Trubisky, he's our guy and we still have to *see* if he can do it. The whole thing is deranged. You guys have zero expectations. It's weird.
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In comment 15429524 Producer said:
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In comment 15429522 Debaser said:
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Don’t you want a good QB? Don’t you want someone who can throw 50 yard bombs and like 4 tds AND win games? Don’t you want to go around drunk at the bars in manhattan on super bowl Sunday and have to call in sick the next day because you were celebrating the giants winning the super bowl?? You really think jones is magically going to start doing this while not turning the call over 40x
No, they want to win with a loser. That's the Giants way. Pound the ball. Be tough. Win with defense. No fancy pants QB. If we don't win this way, what's the point of winning. it doesn't matter that the rules have changed and styles have changed, we must win the Giants way.
One would think winning any way would suffice!
Are we winning? I hadn't noticed.
Do you think denying the changes in the game is a smart strategy to win a championship? The other teams don't mind if the Giants have their heads up their asses. It's one less team to worry about. Sure let's take 5 years to figure out if the failed QB from Duke can transform into an elite NFL QB. It doesn't matter if he plays like Mitch Trubisky, he's our guy and we still have to *see* if he can do it. The whole thing is deranged. You guys have zero expectations. It's weird.
You certainly are an individual unto yourself!
You as well.
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In comment 15429516 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15429513 Producer said:
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In comment 15429505 Walker Gillette said:
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First they sent in the agitators with their maddening arguments that either show a near complete lack of the understanding of football, or use cherry picked stats to hammer home a baseless point. These agitators cannot be reasoned with as its almost like they never even bother to watch the games, they only serve to get everyone riled up. Then the leaders appear with their pithy arguments reeking of certainty to assure all that the decisions already been made and it's no use to go against it. It matters not what the team and Daniel Jones do for the rest of the season, the die has been cast and the Giants will be better off going with Trubisky next year, saving a fortune to be used on something we shall not now know and starting all over. This is the lot we have so we must live with it
right. it's totally coordinated. There aren't individuals who happen to share an opinion that the losses and Jones' production are indications of a bad QB. We lack the deeper understanding of football that you clearly have, which allows you to see beyond objective numbers and know Jones is actually great, even though objective metrics suggest he sucks.
Barring Jones wheels coming off, you might as well count on his option getting picked up. Looking forward to your daily Jones bashing posts in the future
If he plays like an elite QB I will praise him, not bash him. If he plays like a chump, I'll say that. It's not personal. I want the Giants to win the Super Bowl. I could care less if Jones is the QB for it or not. Unlike the Jones cult here.
I'm not gonna get into with you...but if you can name a better player on offense than Jones, that would to a long way toward your argument. The problem is, you can't...yet all your energy is spent shitting on the best player on this shitty offense. If these other players made any plays whatsoever, more people might be sympathetic to your argument
Yes I keep hearing this. This is the wrong standard.
Jones doesn't need to be the best player on the Giants, he needs to be one of the best QBs in the league. Look at all the elite QBs, they are all the best players on their team, and they are in the top-20 in the NFL, or better. That's the standard. Being a bad and boring QB on a bad team isn't moving the needle.
Of course the QB should be the best player on the team. Of course. But we can't build a sustained winner without a top QB, and we don't have that.
B) what type of WR we have
C) how many games they missed
D) what RBs we have had to keep pass rush honest
E) how some of you think you know more than banks, Simms or GMs
Just answer. How with the exception of 3 other QBs who can also move the rest would get killed.
F) someone like Tua wouldn’t last two games with this shit OL.
G) why not name the active WR on the roster and how many catches they have never mind touchdowns
H) why we are near the leaders in drop passes
I) penalties on OL which put us in long to go situations.
J) the only pass play we have are slants or roll outs cause of pass rush
K) yup it’s all on Jones.
The oline looked terrible last year. And pretty decent this year with the exception of the rams game where they looked terrible
You have a tackle so that’s a start
You have a receiver who your QB doesn’t know how to use who was a 1000 yd guy and another high draft pick who looked explosive
Despite all this the most important position on the field still plays the same as when they had shep as their number one receiver accept throw s to him in the slot now and just doesn’t produce
Look if you think jones is the answer at qb and you’re just going to rebuild everything around him including coaches and front office then we living in alternate universe s
But we need to have our eyes wide open about what we have.
And the organization needs to be on the lookout for either a high-upside successor, or a veteran who might fall on the market who is a significant upgrade, should it happen.
We need to move on within 2 years. Sooner, if possible.
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The Giants are on the verge of a complete teardown and rebuild. The name of the game now is to use this season and next to accumulate as many draft picks and accelerate as many cap hits as possible. The 2022 team isn't going to be any good either.
The problem with your philsopshy is htta it's laughabel for a business and it's "employees."
Let's face it, you and Producer, and bw, and debaser don't give a shit whether the Giants win one game for the rest of the season. With you guys, the Giants might not even bother to play, is that right? Or you want theme to play but not only lose, but tank, right? .
DO you really think businesses are run that way? Do you really think players are going to give a fuck playing for a style that you wna tot see which is "tank?"
Because if you want to dump Jones for a draft pick, and you don't get your guy, you realize they are going to unbelievably suck and it will be so obvious you're tanking, right?
I don't mind if you invoke my handle, but it should be for things that I have said. And I don't think the players will tank.
Now would it bother me if this collection of players finished 4-13 vs 7-10 and we get better draft position. No. I would rather have better draft position until we find the right mix and a true franchise QB. I do not believe in this build whatsoever. But I'm not endorsing that the Giants play to lose.
I would add your business philosophy is sketchy at best. A strong argument can be made that the best route to greatness is near term suckiness to gain better draft picks. Businesses are generally concerned with long term greatness, and if the means to getting there is to take a short term hit, then it is a viable strategy.
I If the OL and receivers were good enough to get you into the Red Zone, they are good enough to score TD s with.
Just started watching football in the last few weeks? I guess you think lousy OLines and different types of rb's and wr's and tight ends are actually all the same?
Now that you've just started watching football, maybe the next few weeks you can get an understanding of shortfield vs open field etc.
It's as if you don't believe running with Henry near the goal line is any different than running Barkley (I'm not talking when Barkley can just leap).
You realize that there is differences in player personnel, right? With your comment about moving 50 yards vs red zone yards, you don't seem like you do.
I don't mind if you invoke my handle, but it should be for things that I have said. And I don't think the players will tank.
Now would it bother me if this collection of players finished 4-13 vs 7-10 and we get better draft position. No. I would rather have better draft position until we find the right mix and a true franchise QB. I do not believe in this build whatsoever. But I'm not endorsing that the Giants play to lose.
I would add your business philosophy is sketchy at best. A strong argument can be made that the best route to greatness is near term suckiness to gain better draft picks. Businesses are generally concerned with long term greatness, and if the means to getting there is to take a short term hit, then it is a viable strategy.
You have said since day 1 since I have argued with you that Tannehhill is not the guy., And that every year you'd be drafting a QB in round 1, did you not?
You said that Tannehill cannot win a super bowl, did you not? And as a result if you are drafting QB's every year in round 1, you are playing them instead of Tannehill, right?
SO ofc you would do the same with Jones. That's YOUR STYLE, is it not? Unless you want to amend it now? He could never stick on your team as you continually try to search for a QB, right? Because a guy like Tannehill is making a lot of money while you would keep trying rookie after rookie until you hit a home run, right?
That's tanking and it would be obvious, right? .
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literally above your comment I say that I am fine with Jones playing until we find someone, so how is that endorsing tanking?
I don't mind if you invoke my handle, but it should be for things that I have said. And I don't think the players will tank.
Now would it bother me if this collection of players finished 4-13 vs 7-10 and we get better draft position. No. I would rather have better draft position until we find the right mix and a true franchise QB. I do not believe in this build whatsoever. But I'm not endorsing that the Giants play to lose.
I would add your business philosophy is sketchy at best. A strong argument can be made that the best route to greatness is near term suckiness to gain better draft picks. Businesses are generally concerned with long term greatness, and if the means to getting there is to take a short term hit, then it is a viable strategy.
You have said since day 1 since I have argued with you that Tannehhill is not the guy., And that every year you'd be drafting a QB in round 1, did you not?
You said that Tannehill cannot win a super bowl, did you not? And as a result if you are drafting QB's every year in round 1, you are playing them instead of Tannehill, right?
SO ofc you would do the same with Jones. That's YOUR STYLE, is it not? Unless you want to amend it now? He could never stick on your team as you continually try to search for a QB, right? Because a guy like Tannehill is making a lot of money while you would keep trying rookie after rookie until you hit a home run, right?
That's tanking and it would be obvious, right? .
I think you are confusing my comments with somebody else, possibly, which is understandable.
I never say nobody can win a Super Bowl. Terrible QBs have won SBs and I am sure they will in the future. there is a certain amount of luck in all this. What I say is that bad QBs strongly reduce the probability you will win a SB. It is like the teams with elite QBs are playing in a different league, and they have many times the chances to win a SB than the lesser teams with poorer QBs. Exponentially higher chances.
I do not think Tannehill is an elite QB. You are right about that. I would not want him for the Giants. But he's not terrible. He is just outside the elite tier, imo. Somewhere 10-12. Good, but not good enough.
I am not hot for cycling through rookies to maximize the rookie contract and the clock of a rookie contract. I understand the logic, but it's not my preference for how to run the Giants. I do favor cycling through rookies to secure an elite talent to have as our QB for 15 years.
Those are my thoughts, for now, anyhow.
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I do not think Tannehill is an elite QB. You are right about that. I would not want him for the Giants. But he's not terrible. He is just outside the elite tier, imo. Somewhere 10-12. Good, but not good enough.
You did but it's not important I guess. So I'll drop it for now if you say so.
But in terms of Tannehill, do you think a 10-12 QB is a very good QB?
And you are okay with keeping Jones but but you wouldn't want a 10-12 QB? Becuase Jones is not 10-12, right?
Do you think Tennessee has been and is a successful team since Tannehill joined them?
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In comment 15429554 giantstock said:
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I do not think Tannehill is an elite QB. You are right about that. I would not want him for the Giants. But he's not terrible. He is just outside the elite tier, imo. Somewhere 10-12. Good, but not good enough.
You did but it's not important I guess. So I'll drop it for now if you say so.
But in terms of Tannehill, do you think a 10-12 QB is a very good QB?
And you are okay with keeping Jones but but you wouldn't want a 10-12 QB? Becuase Jones is not 10-12, right?
Do you think Tennessee has been and is a successful team since Tannehill joined them?
I have never said Tannehill is great or elite. And I would not prefer Tanny for the Giants. Do not insist I said this. I did not. I have never believed it. Tannehill is a limited QB on a conservative, running offense.
Your question makes no sense. I don't want Jones. I wish he wasn't our QB. But I understand the strategy of keeping him until we find a successor. I don't think this position is at all unclear and I'm not sure why you are mixing it up.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
@Patricia_Traina
Daniel Jones's toughness reminds me quite a bit of Phil Simms's toughness back in the day. Simms dealt with some early career injuries (though worse than what Jones has dealt with) and got beat up behind a shaky OL.
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
But when it came to taking a licking, Simms could take it like the best of them, much like how Jones takes it.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
Nobody is suggesting he should be winning every week. This is a crappy roster riddled with injuries. Much of that is due to our GM investing heavily in guys with injury histories. Some is just the NFL and everyone deals with that.
But what we should be seeing from a top 10 pick in year 3 is someone who gives us a fighting chance on every drive. A few “wow” plays. Someone appearing on Sy’s “dud’ list a little less often.
Nobody on here is truly rooting against Daniel Jones. He seems like a good guy. But wishing for something doesn’t make you a better fan. For many the “it” factor with this kid just isn’t there. It’s absolutely ok to hold that opinion and still be a Giant fan.
... and Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Nick Foles, etc
When was the last time they said anything negative about any player -- let alone a Giant? Have they ever said "you can't win with this guy, I'd cut him and take the cap hit."
^^^
This is the actual answer on page 1 of this thread.
Whether it's Banks, Simms or ex-NFL players or GMs... it's pretty rare that they would publicly state that ANY young, starting QB is not the guy. And in this case, Banks (who is employed by the Giants) is certainly not going to say that Jones is not a franchise QB.
Now Banks may actually believe that Jones is a franchise QB, but given the circumstances, I don't know why anyone would take what he said as true conviction.
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
Nobody is suggesting he should be winning every week. This is a crappy roster riddled with injuries. Much of that is due to our GM investing heavily in guys with injury histories. Some is just the NFL and everyone deals with that.
But what we should be seeing from a top 10 pick in year 3 is someone who gives us a fighting chance on every drive. A few “wow” plays. Someone appearing on Sy’s “dud’ list a little less often.
Nobody on here is truly rooting against Daniel Jones. He seems like a good guy. But wishing for something doesn’t make you a better fan. For many the “it” factor with this kid just isn’t there. It’s absolutely ok to hold that opinion and still be a Giant fan.
I thought Jones was very good against NO/WAS. I didn't think Sunday was some spectacular QB performance. He did a good job but I wouldn't call it brilliant or the best game of his career like some of the journalists are.
My main criticism of Jones has been his anemic TD production and the below-average offenses he's been apart of. I think the idea that you can have a franchise QB that posts the worst league-wide TD production is ridiculous. He's fixed a lot of last year's issues for sure.
I know others disagree, but I don't think he's the long-term solution. I look forward to seeing him with some guys back over the course of the rest of the season, though.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
Maybe a few posters meet that criteria but most fully realize he isn't a franchise altering QB. So really, who are you arguing against? I think with a competent OL and decently healthy group of skill position players he's in the mix to be a solid starter and part of a winning team + culture.
Most "defenses" of Jones seem pretty reasonable. And why they are met with such disdain is beyond me. Give me a viable alternative at QB and I'll listen. But if all i get back is trade for Watson or bring in a vet to push Jones then, well, might as well just save the time and not even post.
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In comment 15429129 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15429117 kdog77 said:
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and the offense still might not be very good. Those are not mutually exclusive statements. Jones played like a competent QB yesterday, but let's be honest the Defense won that game.
It does not do DJ a disservice to state that he has not earned the "franchise" QB status.
At some point we as fans need to stop asking on how the front office and coaching staff can surround Jones with better talent and better offensive scheme to make him look good, and start asking how can DJ make the rest of the team better? There a lot of good QBs that play with mediocre OL and no-name receivers who manage to put up big games in the NFL b/c the league is so pass happy. It would be great to see DJ get to a point by the end of the season where being "competent" isn't the bar for whether he is a franchise QB.
Define mediocre. Our Oline is the worst in the NFL. I don't even think it's an argument.
The Giants patchwork OL is pass protecting better than people realize. The pressure rate, QB hits and sack rate are near top of the NFL and suggest that Jones has enough time to read the D and throw: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm
Now the Giants can't run the ball effectively and Garrett has the WRs running stick routes far too often, but maybe Jones is playing to his potential and that potential is a "competent" QB. I am not sure that is enough.
Simply not true. The protection sucks and Jones is coping as good as you could hope for.
This is an interesting chart. My own view was that the OL was bottom ten but not quite bottom five.
However, this doesn't explain Jones' anemic TD production - nearly all those QBs clustered near Jones have superior touchdown production. Josh Allen is close by, for example. Even Tua has more than Jones and Miami can't wait to dump him.
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
Maybe a few posters meet that criteria but most fully realize he isn't a franchise altering QB. So really, who are you arguing against? I think with a competent OL and decently healthy group of skill position players he's in the mix to be a solid starter and part of a winning team + culture.
Most "defenses" of Jones seem pretty reasonable. And why they are met with such disdain is beyond me. Give me a viable alternative at QB and I'll listen. But if all i get back is trade for Watson or bring in a vet to push Jones then, well, might as well just save the time and not even post.
I concur with this view completely. The only reason to bring in a vet is to provide training wheels for a rookie QB you draft. When that happens, then bring in a vet.
We all know Watson is not coming here, short of being fully cleared of any improprieties. Mara is not interested in his QB having that kind of sideshow come with him.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
I mean even Bortles had some 4 and 5 TD games. Jones has 3 4+ TD games, but he also has more 0 td games than multiple TD games. That’s very hard to do in this era of the NFL.
He also had an improved line going in this year, but I personally think everything about how he's handled the pocket this year has improved. His only bad game was the post concussion game where we were thin at WR and the OL was beat up. He took a blindside strip sack from where Andrew Thomas usually is on the 1st or 2nd drive of the game, and was off the rest of the game..but he bounced back the following week.
I attribute some of his overall improvement to him finally having continuity in an offense, 2nd year in an offense helps alleviate a lot of the mental hurdles in year 1. Once tbe presnap reads come easily, focus can go on physical ability to make plays..which slowly builds confidence.
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In comment 15429556 Producer said:
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In comment 15429554 giantstock said:
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I do not think Tannehill is an elite QB. You are right about that. I would not want him for the Giants. But he's not terrible. He is just outside the elite tier, imo. Somewhere 10-12. Good, but not good enough.
You did but it's not important I guess. So I'll drop it for now if you say so.
But in terms of Tannehill, do you think a 10-12 QB is a very good QB?
And you are okay with keeping Jones but but you wouldn't want a 10-12 QB? Becuase Jones is not 10-12, right?
Do you think Tennessee has been and is a successful team since Tannehill joined them?
I have never said Tannehill is great or elite. And I would not prefer Tanny for the Giants. Do not insist I said this. I did not. I have never believed it. Tannehill is a limited QB on a conservative, running offense.
Your question makes no sense. I don't want Jones. I wish he wasn't our QB. But I understand the strategy of keeping him until we find a successor. I don't think this position is at all unclear and I'm not sure why you are mixing it up.
It seems you want to avoid my questions. You said Tannehhill was 10-12 - so where did you pick up I accused you of stating Tannehill was elite. Where are you coming uo with that from my posts?
I asked you if you think a QB that is 10-12 is very good? 'Very good" is not "elite." And you are okay with keeping a QB that is worse than 10-12?
And do you think Tannehhill has been a successful QB?
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
The problem is posters like you look to do extreme exaggerations trying to make your point. To suggest he has had only one good game is absurd.
It just highlights the point that osme of you are nuts.
"All the other games" he hasn't performed well, eh? You mean New Orleans and Washington he was bad too?
I think some of you are so intent on not wanting DJ that you just bury your head in the sand with the rest of the offense. DJ is not elite. Sure get someone better - if you an. But making exaggerations as you have done is over-the-top and typical of many on here about him.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
It's painfully blind that some posters don't understand that his OLINE sucks, his top WR's are either out or last year completely sucked, his tight ends suck, and his top RB rarely plays, and Jones has bene banged up the last two years yet some posters remain blind to all of this and just want open up the offense.
People here seem to be more invested in Jones than the success of the Giants. It’s crazy.