Today on WFAN with “Mark and Maggie” Banks said you can win a championship with DJ. Now before everyone who hates the Jones pick,remember to blame Gettleman for that. Banks went on to say that biggest change with Jones is his command of the offense. He has the tools necessary to be very effective at this level and he wants to win. He called Jones the best player on the team. I have had a wait and see attitude and always felt Jones was in a tough situation to make a definitive evaluation. I know there are some that don’t like the pick but there is a consensus building in the media that Jones is the Guy. That is important in NYC.
A new GM and/or coach puts a wrinkle on things, but do you want to bring in a journeyman or roll the dice on the next rookie class?
Of course we have several good players out, but for yesterday's purposes that's what I saw.
My hope is that we get injured talent comes back shortly and the line solidifies a little. I think it will be apparent if we are lucky enough for the 1st 2 to occur.
Of course we have several good players out, but for yesterday's purposes that's what I saw.
The real question I have is whether the offensive playcalling lacks imagination because of Jason Garrett or because Daniel Jones becomes more turnover prone if they added some of the more creative playcalling you see from people like McVay and Kingsbury. At his current level I see a QB who can lead a team to the playoffs (1) if his team stays relatively helathy and (2) his teammates can keep him out of 3rd and very long because when you get beyond about 3rd and 8 teams don't have to respect as much the possibility that he can run for a first down if forced out of the pocket. The problem is the Giants are neither right now and not sure they will be for the forseeable future.
When you take the emotion out of it and really look at his playing conditions, it's remarkable how volatile things have been around him.
Every freaking week, it's a new cast of players around him. New guys on the OL. Musical chairs at RB, WR and TE. Jeckyl and Hyde gameplans from Garrett that get criticized by EVERYONE around the league associated with the Giants or not. And ridiculous penalties taking many of his positive plays away.
Just once, I'd like to see him with some modicum of stability and talent around him. That was the goal coming in, and unfortunately, it hasn't happened. But he is still showing something and is tough as nails. One of my favorite plays of his was an incompletion. Peart had just limped off the field, Solder goes to LT and Cunningham in at RT. Next snap, Jones hangs in the pocket and tries to hit a deep throw when he knew he was gonna take a shot.
That's the kind of play that wins me over. Dude is tough as nails and has not given up on the season whatsoever.
Old school pocket passer that can run.
Or some of us don't live our lives believing everything Carl Banks says to be the undisputed truth.
what we need to see from jones is consistency, and an ability to reliably throw TDs in the red zone.
he has 5 TD passes through seven games this season and is on pace to produce his abysmal TD total from 2020. this needs to change.
The Other Half
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The Anti Jones cabal is probably doing a Zoom meeting right now figuring how to properly address this outrage. They will let their outrage be felt!
Or some of us don't live our lives believing everything Carl Banks says to be the undisputed truth.
But you sure do let him piss you off!
Only player on offense left standing.
what we need to see from jones is consistency, and an ability to reliably throw TDs in the red zone.
he has 5 TD passes through seven games this season and is on pace to produce his abysmal TD total from 2020. this needs to change.
Garrett is the anti-Andy Reid in the red zone. As soon as they get inside the 20 he tries to run it in at all costs. If Booker is running for a 19 yard TD because it is looking like Jones will pass the ball that is partly on the work of Jones yet he gets nothing in the stats. As long as Garrett is the OC I don't think even Aaron Rodgers would have gaudy TD statistics.
what we need to see from jones is consistency, and an ability to reliably throw TDs in the red zone.
he has 5 TD passes through seven games this season and is on pace to produce his abysmal TD total from 2020. this needs to change.
16 TDs in 21 games with unquestionably the worst set of skill players in the NFL (Golden Tate the #1 WR?), unquestionably one of the worst OLines and a scheme that's gotten Garrett a ton of criticism from all corners of the NFL (and demoted from playcalling in his last job).
16 TDs in 21 is a low number, but is it really a surprise? That's about the talent he's been given around him. It's been dysfunctional and a young QB isn't going to change that.
Marino doesn't have a ring. Dilfer does. The "you can winn a championship with him" talk is just filling airtime.
lol now that was funny
I think what Simms and Banks are saying is that its coming. I agree but also won't declare victory over the doubters just yet.
And if we stink with him DL, Andrew Thomas, and even barkley on rookie contracts - they will need to get paid too (well maybe not SB). The point is investing major money into a QB of a losing franchise means you cannot pay for guys that you need to surround him in order to win.
If you cant win with him now, do you really expect to win with him making nearly 5-6x more?
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In comment 15429010 Walker Gillette said:
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The Anti Jones cabal is probably doing a Zoom meeting right now figuring how to properly address this outrage. They will let their outrage be felt!
Or some of us don't live our lives believing everything Carl Banks says to be the undisputed truth.
But you sure do let him piss you off!
It's odd that you jumped to that conclusion based upon an extremely unemotional response, but whatever you need to tell yourself I guess.
Where is this unicorn of a QB winning Super Bowls without talent around him?
OK.
How loyal are these two to the blue?
Have you ever heard them disparage a Giants QB?
I think Carl and Phil could be right.
I also think they could be wrong.
He appears to have improved ball security and interceptions.
Great job.
For 3 straight years Daniel is absolutely the very bottom of the NFL in the Red Zone as a QB.
Everything is faster.
Figure that out and we might have something.
I am rooting for him.
Touchdowns, not field goals.
Don't like the play that is called.
Fucking audible into the correct one.
Be accountable.
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In comment 15429021 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15429010 Walker Gillette said:
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The Anti Jones cabal is probably doing a Zoom meeting right now figuring how to properly address this outrage. They will let their outrage be felt!
Or some of us don't live our lives believing everything Carl Banks says to be the undisputed truth.
But you sure do let him piss you off!
It's odd that you jumped to that conclusion based upon an extremely unemotional response, but whatever you need to tell yourself I guess.
That's unemotional? You come back with that response which is dripping with anger. This is a Giants board and a former Giant who a lot of people respect said some positive about the young ab and you come back with that. maybe it's whatever you need to tell yourself!
Marino doesn't have a ring. Dilfer does. The "you can winn a championship with him" talk is just filling airtime.
I think what Simms and Banks are saying is that its coming. I agree but also won't declare victory over the doubters just yet.
OK.
How loyal are these two to the blue?
Have you ever heard them disparage a Giants QB?
I think Carl and Phil could be right.
I also think they could be wrong.
He appears to have improved ball security and interceptions.
Great job.
bolded textFor 3 straight years Daniel is absolutely the very bottom of the NFL in the Red Zone as a QB.bolded text
Be accountable.
Is this correct? Even in 2019?
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Said the same thing.
OK.
How loyal are these two to the blue?
Have you ever heard them disparage a Giants QB?
I think Carl and Phil could be right.
I also think they could be wrong.
He appears to have improved ball security and interceptions.
Great job.
bolded textFor 3 straight years Daniel is absolutely the very bottom of the NFL in the Red Zone as a QB.bolded text
Be accountable.
Is this correct? Even in 2019?
2109 QB Red Zone - ( New Window )
That's unemotional? You come back with that response which is dripping with anger. This is a Giants board and a former Giant who a lot of people respect said some positive about the young ab and you come back with that. maybe it's whatever you need to tell yourself!
Ok.
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That's unemotional? You come back with that response which is dripping with anger. This is a Giants board and a former Giant who a lot of people respect said some positive about the young ab and you come back with that. maybe it's whatever you need to tell yourself!
Ok.
+1!
When was the last time they said anything negative about any player -- let alone a Giant? Have they ever said "you can't win with this guy, I'd cut him and take the cap hit."Even if they did it, does not mean they guaranteed to be 100% right.
With the draft capital for next year, not having to take a QB would be an opportuinty to get better much faster. Personally my totally meaningless eyes say not yet.
IMO there's more development to go for him to be anywhere near what Banks said. He still locks in on one reciever and still doesn't trust his eyes after the ball is snapped. He has to show he can beat the really good defenses more consistently if he's going to be top 10. He's still playing behind an horrible line and the ammount of hits he taking in the pocket and when he runs are not long term sustainable.
Wow it took Garrett a year and a half to figure out that Jones is good on a rollout. Why the fuck haven't they been going to that play on a consistent basis all season?
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In comment 15429071 Thegratefulhead said:
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Is this correct? Even in 2019?
2109 QB Red Zone - ( New Window )
Fair enough...but those stats don't seem so bad. Looking at other players who had a similar amount of attempts in the red zone like Darnold and Allen, I'd say Jones was better....stat-wise..
Wow it took Garrett a year and a half to figure out that Jones is good on a rollout. Why the fuck haven't they been going to that play on a consistent basis all season?
Because he hasn't been that good throwing while running.
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he played well enough to win yesterday, and his one-handed catch was a lot of fun to watch. but this is the same guy who was 2-8 vs dallas before he knocked himself out of the game making a dumb decision. and that horrific game was after a nice performance vs. NO.
what we need to see from jones is consistency, and an ability to reliably throw TDs in the red zone.
he has 5 TD passes through seven games this season and is on pace to produce his abysmal TD total from 2020. this needs to change.
16 TDs in 21 games with unquestionably the worst set of skill players in the NFL (Golden Tate the #1 WR?), unquestionably one of the worst OLines and a scheme that's gotten Garrett a ton of criticism from all corners of the NFL (and demoted from playcalling in his last job).
16 TDs in 21 is a low number, but is it really a surprise? That's about the talent he's been given around him. It's been dysfunctional and a young QB isn't going to change that.
Tua has 7 this year despite missing time and throwing to basically Gesicki and a rookie. It’s not like Jones was throwing a bunch of TDS the games everyone played in this year.
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The Anti Jones cabal is probably doing a Zoom meeting right now figuring how to properly address this outrage. They will let their outrage be felt!
Or some of us don't live our lives believing everything Carl Banks says to be the undisputed truth.
You tell him rs. Why the hell would we listen to Carl Banks or Phil Simms when we have our own quarterback gurus right here on Bbi who have made it clear, Jones stinks.
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The stats show a big dropoff when Shurmer left. Yes some differences in personnel year to year but not that many.
Wow it took Garrett a year and a half to figure out that Jones is good on a rollout. Why the fuck haven't they been going to that play on a consistent basis all season?
Because he hasn't been that good throwing while running.
Well he looked decent yesterday.
Excited to see what the kid has down the stretch this year.
Wow it took Garrett a year and a half to figure out that Jones is good on a rollout. Why the fuck haven't they been going to that play on a consistent basis all season?
Yea they also showed some drop off in key areas Jones was top 5 in like fumbling. I don't want to look up his Ints but 39 Turnovers total is a lot of freaking turnovers. That went down as well. Then again at this point you are losing just the same so just turn him loose, let him get benched for horrible play, and bring in Glennon I guess?
It does not do DJ a disservice to state that he has not earned the "franchise" QB status.
At some point we as fans need to stop asking on how the front office and coaching staff can surround Jones with better talent and better offensive scheme to make him look good, and start asking how can DJ make the rest of the team better? There a lot of good QBs that play with mediocre OL and no-name receivers who manage to put up big games in the NFL b/c the league is so pass happy. It would be great to see DJ get to a point by the end of the season where being "competent" isn't the bar for whether he is a franchise QB.
I think we have to give an incoming GM a pass on Jones for two years (if there are no better alternatives in the draft) while he builds out the rest of the roster. Also have to give him the option dump Judge and pick his own guy.
If we make the GM job conditional on keeping Jones and Judge then we might as well just give the job to Kevin Abrams and spare us from getting our hopes up, because at that point we'll have to give the job to the front office equivalent of a special teams coach who interviews well.
Judge also seems to think Engram has it, so proceed with caution.
on a somewhat separate note, is interesting that for all the debate we have about JOnes's rookie season it was light years better than just about anything we have seen from this years rookie QB class.
It does not do DJ a disservice to state that he has not earned the "franchise" QB status.
At some point we as fans need to stop asking on how the front office and coaching staff can surround Jones with better talent and better offensive scheme to make him look good, and start asking how can DJ make the rest of the team better? There a lot of good QBs that play with mediocre OL and no-name receivers who manage to put up big games in the NFL b/c the league is so pass happy. It would be great to see DJ get to a point by the end of the season where being "competent" isn't the bar for whether he is a franchise QB.
Define mediocre. Our Oline is the worst in the NFL. I don't even think it's an argument.
Red zone, non-red zone, 1-yard passes, 99-yard designed runs, RPOs...don't care how it happens.