Today on WFAN with “Mark and Maggie” Banks said you can win a championship with DJ. Now before everyone who hates the Jones pick,remember to blame Gettleman for that. Banks went on to say that biggest change with Jones is his command of the offense. He has the tools necessary to be very effective at this level and he wants to win. He called Jones the best player on the team. I have had a wait and see attitude and always felt Jones was in a tough situation to make a definitive evaluation. I know there are some that don’t like the pick but there is a consensus building in the media that Jones is the Guy. That is important in NYC.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
@Patricia_Traina
Daniel Jones's toughness reminds me quite a bit of Phil Simms's toughness back in the day. Simms dealt with some early career injuries (though worse than what Jones has dealt with) and got beat up behind a shaky OL.
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
But when it came to taking a licking, Simms could take it like the best of them, much like how Jones takes it.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
Nobody is suggesting he should be winning every week. This is a crappy roster riddled with injuries. Much of that is due to our GM investing heavily in guys with injury histories. Some is just the NFL and everyone deals with that.
But what we should be seeing from a top 10 pick in year 3 is someone who gives us a fighting chance on every drive. A few “wow” plays. Someone appearing on Sy’s “dud’ list a little less often.
Nobody on here is truly rooting against Daniel Jones. He seems like a good guy. But wishing for something doesn’t make you a better fan. For many the “it” factor with this kid just isn’t there. It’s absolutely ok to hold that opinion and still be a Giant fan.
... and Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Nick Foles, etc
When was the last time they said anything negative about any player -- let alone a Giant? Have they ever said "you can't win with this guy, I'd cut him and take the cap hit."
^^^
This is the actual answer on page 1 of this thread.
Whether it's Banks, Simms or ex-NFL players or GMs... it's pretty rare that they would publicly state that ANY young, starting QB is not the guy. And in this case, Banks (who is employed by the Giants) is certainly not going to say that Jones is not a franchise QB.
Now Banks may actually believe that Jones is a franchise QB, but given the circumstances, I don't know why anyone would take what he said as true conviction.
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
Nobody is suggesting he should be winning every week. This is a crappy roster riddled with injuries. Much of that is due to our GM investing heavily in guys with injury histories. Some is just the NFL and everyone deals with that.
But what we should be seeing from a top 10 pick in year 3 is someone who gives us a fighting chance on every drive. A few “wow” plays. Someone appearing on Sy’s “dud’ list a little less often.
Nobody on here is truly rooting against Daniel Jones. He seems like a good guy. But wishing for something doesn’t make you a better fan. For many the “it” factor with this kid just isn’t there. It’s absolutely ok to hold that opinion and still be a Giant fan.
I thought Jones was very good against NO/WAS. I didn't think Sunday was some spectacular QB performance. He did a good job but I wouldn't call it brilliant or the best game of his career like some of the journalists are.
My main criticism of Jones has been his anemic TD production and the below-average offenses he's been apart of. I think the idea that you can have a franchise QB that posts the worst league-wide TD production is ridiculous. He's fixed a lot of last year's issues for sure.
I know others disagree, but I don't think he's the long-term solution. I look forward to seeing him with some guys back over the course of the rest of the season, though.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
Maybe a few posters meet that criteria but most fully realize he isn't a franchise altering QB. So really, who are you arguing against? I think with a competent OL and decently healthy group of skill position players he's in the mix to be a solid starter and part of a winning team + culture.
Most "defenses" of Jones seem pretty reasonable. And why they are met with such disdain is beyond me. Give me a viable alternative at QB and I'll listen. But if all i get back is trade for Watson or bring in a vet to push Jones then, well, might as well just save the time and not even post.
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In comment 15429129 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15429117 kdog77 said:
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and the offense still might not be very good. Those are not mutually exclusive statements. Jones played like a competent QB yesterday, but let's be honest the Defense won that game.
It does not do DJ a disservice to state that he has not earned the "franchise" QB status.
At some point we as fans need to stop asking on how the front office and coaching staff can surround Jones with better talent and better offensive scheme to make him look good, and start asking how can DJ make the rest of the team better? There a lot of good QBs that play with mediocre OL and no-name receivers who manage to put up big games in the NFL b/c the league is so pass happy. It would be great to see DJ get to a point by the end of the season where being "competent" isn't the bar for whether he is a franchise QB.
Define mediocre. Our Oline is the worst in the NFL. I don't even think it's an argument.
The Giants patchwork OL is pass protecting better than people realize. The pressure rate, QB hits and sack rate are near top of the NFL and suggest that Jones has enough time to read the D and throw: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm
Now the Giants can't run the ball effectively and Garrett has the WRs running stick routes far too often, but maybe Jones is playing to his potential and that potential is a "competent" QB. I am not sure that is enough.
Simply not true. The protection sucks and Jones is coping as good as you could hope for.
This is an interesting chart. My own view was that the OL was bottom ten but not quite bottom five.
However, this doesn't explain Jones' anemic TD production - nearly all those QBs clustered near Jones have superior touchdown production. Josh Allen is close by, for example. Even Tua has more than Jones and Miami can't wait to dump him.
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
Maybe a few posters meet that criteria but most fully realize he isn't a franchise altering QB. So really, who are you arguing against? I think with a competent OL and decently healthy group of skill position players he's in the mix to be a solid starter and part of a winning team + culture.
Most "defenses" of Jones seem pretty reasonable. And why they are met with such disdain is beyond me. Give me a viable alternative at QB and I'll listen. But if all i get back is trade for Watson or bring in a vet to push Jones then, well, might as well just save the time and not even post.
I concur with this view completely. The only reason to bring in a vet is to provide training wheels for a rookie QB you draft. When that happens, then bring in a vet.
We all know Watson is not coming here, short of being fully cleared of any improprieties. Mara is not interested in his QB having that kind of sideshow come with him.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
I mean even Bortles had some 4 and 5 TD games. Jones has 3 4+ TD games, but he also has more 0 td games than multiple TD games. That’s very hard to do in this era of the NFL.
He also had an improved line going in this year, but I personally think everything about how he's handled the pocket this year has improved. His only bad game was the post concussion game where we were thin at WR and the OL was beat up. He took a blindside strip sack from where Andrew Thomas usually is on the 1st or 2nd drive of the game, and was off the rest of the game..but he bounced back the following week.
I attribute some of his overall improvement to him finally having continuity in an offense, 2nd year in an offense helps alleviate a lot of the mental hurdles in year 1. Once tbe presnap reads come easily, focus can go on physical ability to make plays..which slowly builds confidence.
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In comment 15429556 Producer said:
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In comment 15429554 giantstock said:
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I do not think Tannehill is an elite QB. You are right about that. I would not want him for the Giants. But he's not terrible. He is just outside the elite tier, imo. Somewhere 10-12. Good, but not good enough.
You did but it's not important I guess. So I'll drop it for now if you say so.
But in terms of Tannehill, do you think a 10-12 QB is a very good QB?
And you are okay with keeping Jones but but you wouldn't want a 10-12 QB? Becuase Jones is not 10-12, right?
Do you think Tennessee has been and is a successful team since Tannehill joined them?
I have never said Tannehill is great or elite. And I would not prefer Tanny for the Giants. Do not insist I said this. I did not. I have never believed it. Tannehill is a limited QB on a conservative, running offense.
Your question makes no sense. I don't want Jones. I wish he wasn't our QB. But I understand the strategy of keeping him until we find a successor. I don't think this position is at all unclear and I'm not sure why you are mixing it up.
It seems you want to avoid my questions. You said Tannehhill was 10-12 - so where did you pick up I accused you of stating Tannehill was elite. Where are you coming uo with that from my posts?
I asked you if you think a QB that is 10-12 is very good? 'Very good" is not "elite." And you are okay with keeping a QB that is worse than 10-12?
And do you think Tannehhill has been a successful QB?
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this thread can only exist in a week after Giants win where DJ throws 200 yards and 1 TD, but not after a week Giants lose and DJ throws 3 INTs where the entire franchise needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts.
We are so desperate for a "franchise" QB that we will take any sign of competency as confirmation that DJ is the "one" despite objective statistics showing otherwise.
Ok. I really hope DJ proves me wrong. Go Big Blue.
The bar for a franchise QB has been lowered by many to “he isn’t part of the problem.” Jones played well on Sunday and helped us win. This and the New Orleans game were both very good games for him.
The problem is all the other games this year. The inconsistency. In year 3 we should be looking for more than flashes of talent. We should be looking for consistent performance week to week. That has not come yet.
The problem is posters like you look to do extreme exaggerations trying to make your point. To suggest he has had only one good game is absurd.
It just highlights the point that osme of you are nuts.
"All the other games" he hasn't performed well, eh? You mean New Orleans and Washington he was bad too?
I think some of you are so intent on not wanting DJ that you just bury your head in the sand with the rest of the offense. DJ is not elite. Sure get someone better - if you an. But making exaggerations as you have done is over-the-top and typical of many on here about him.
The offensive scheme is restrictive and it's painful to see posters blind to see it or just forgetting it ever happened.
It's painfully blind that some posters don't understand that his OLINE sucks, his top WR's are either out or last year completely sucked, his tight ends suck, and his top RB rarely plays, and Jones has bene banged up the last two years yet some posters remain blind to all of this and just want open up the offense.
People here seem to be more invested in Jones than the success of the Giants. It’s crazy.