He made this observation on the “Blue Rush” podcast yesterday, with Paul Schwartz.
Felt it was a moment where Daniel put the offense on his back and willed them to victory
Hesitate to post this as it will trigger another Jones debate, of which even I am tiring, and I participate in all of them.
But nice to hear Tynes say this.
Jones' stat line was modest, but considering the context which includes lack of surrounding cast and a pretty good Carolina defense, that stat line does not reflect how good Jones played.
We ll see. I know I ve really have annoyed some posters, maybe because I defend Daniel on almost every thread about him.
Engram - everyone hates him and thinks he should be cut for multiple years now
Pettis - has 52 career catches since being drafted in 2018, 10 of which came in the last 2 weeks
John Ross - former 1st round bust who was cut by Cincinnati
Daniel Jones - big time production
Booker, Rudolph, Johnson
Name a QB who has the privilege of throwing to that group of players.
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looking forward to all the new material that gets posted in response!
We ll see. I know I ve really have annoyed some posters, maybe because I defend Daniel on almost every thread about him.
That's the funny thing, because I don't really defend Jones, i'm completely fine with an upgrade if there is one that makes sense. But i do push back on two things - 1. there is no clear, realistic upgrade and 2. what he's working with is absolute shit and can't be ignored.
Engram - everyone hates him and thinks he should be cut for multiple years now
Pettis - has 52 career catches since being drafted in 2018, 10 of which came in the last 2 weeks
John Ross - former 1st round bust who was cut by Cincinnati
Daniel Jones - big time production
Booker, Rudolph, Johnson
Name a QB who has the privilege of throwing to that group of players.
All while having the worst OLine in the NFL. And it's been that way with both the skill players AND the OL since he started playing.
Sunday's game is an exact, clear and indisputable example of why Jones is not the problem. I watched guys come through our line cleanly multiple times. I watched Jones have to make a split decision as WH and NS decided to double team a guy why the stunting player came free right up the gut (between RG and C) while still losing the double team battle on the outside leaving Jones nowhere to go. I watched later NS and WH both choose other players to block allowing the end/tackle to go right between RG and RT untouched..
With our shit show of an offensive line and our Depleted corps of weapons:
SB, SS, KG, KT all out and Slayton just off being injured and EE both limited injury wise and limited ,well , because he is EE, we had to play a turnover free game and that is what happened.
This season needs to play out before decisions are made on anyone -except DG. He needs to be gone as he is a dinosaur with a less than proven record of sustained success as the head guy.
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In comment 15429629 UConn4523 said:
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looking forward to all the new material that gets posted in response!
We ll see. I know I ve really have annoyed some posters, maybe because I defend Daniel on almost every thread about him.
That's the funny thing, because I don't really defend Jones, i'm completely fine with an upgrade if there is one that makes sense. But i do push back on two things - 1. there is no clear, realistic upgrade and 2. what he's working with is absolute shit and can't be ignored.
Some people find it very easy to ignore (the absolute shit he's been working with). I've been finding it easier to ignore posts from those people. Allows me to read DJ threads much faster and more pleasantly!
The equation doesn't add up.
The equation doesn't add up.
I have also seen it said that Judge is the victim of a bad roster, yet that does not apply to the qb.
The equation doesn't add up.
Killing it here.
The defense limited the Panthers to 3 points. The defense scored two of their own (after the offense failed on goal to go and came away with no points). The defense then gave the offense 4 possessions late starting deep in Panther territory that resulted in the majority of points. 7 of those points came from a one-play drive where Jones handed the ball to Booker who ran it in from 19 yards out.
Why is it fair to say Jones put the team on his back, rather than saying the defense put the team on its back?
Asking for a friend.
That’s just absurd. Why does everything have to be so extreme. He played a good game. Period.
The defense limited the Panthers to 3 points. The defense scored two of their own (after the offense failed on goal to go and came away with no points). The defense then gave the offense 4 possessions late starting deep in Panther territory that resulted in the majority of points. 7 of those points came from a one-play drive where Jones handed the ball to Booker who ran it in from 19 yards out.
Why is it fair to say Jones put the team on his back, rather than saying the defense put the team on its back?
Asking for a friend.
The defense did what they did...finally. Jones did what he has done almost the entire year. He uses his athleticism and skills to give the Giants a chance. He is getting little help with his top 3 WR's out and an OL that in no way resembles what the Giants had coming into the season.
This game was first and foremost about the defense and their dominance. Secondly it was about how bad Sam Darnold was. Third it was about our offense being productive with a skeleton crew.
I think Jones is good but the gameplan reflected the current state of the rest of the roster.
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In comment 15429629 UConn4523 said:
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looking forward to all the new material that gets posted in response!
We ll see. I know I ve really have annoyed some posters, maybe because I defend Daniel on almost every thread about him.
That's the funny thing, because I don't really defend Jones, i'm completely fine with an upgrade if there is one that makes sense. But i do push back on two things - 1. there is no clear, realistic upgrade and 2. what he's working with is absolute shit and can't be ignored.
If the Giants could have Josh Allen or Herbert instead of Jones, hard to say you don’t do that
But I agree where is the upgrade. Also, players develop at different rates, I don’t think Daniel is done growing.
Plus I love rooting for him
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but never heard a coherent answer.
The defense limited the Panthers to 3 points. The defense scored two of their own (after the offense failed on goal to go and came away with no points). The defense then gave the offense 4 possessions late starting deep in Panther territory that resulted in the majority of points. 7 of those points came from a one-play drive where Jones handed the ball to Booker who ran it in from 19 yards out.
Why is it fair to say Jones put the team on his back, rather than saying the defense put the team on its back?
Asking for a friend.
The defense did what they did...finally. Jones did what he has done almost the entire year. He uses his athleticism and skills to give the Giants a chance. He is getting little help with his top 3 WR's out and an OL that in no way resembles what the Giants had coming into the season.
So you think the comment about Jones is fair - thta he carried the team (including the defense) to the win?
Again, nobody is arguing that he didn’t play well despite having a JV roster.
This game was first and foremost about the defense and their dominance. Secondly it was about how bad Sam Darnold was. Third it was about our offense being productive with a skeleton crew.
We allowed 3 points because Jones was getting us enough first downs that even when the drive didn't end up in points, Carolina faced a long field which they could not handle. What we did not have was receiving the ball inside our 20 yard line and promptly going 3 and out with regularity which then gives the defense no time to catch their breath and the opponent has good field position because even the best punters net between 45-47 yards on punts so if you are punting from your 25 that means the other team is starting at their 30 yard line whereas an extra 10 yards could push them inside their 20.
And not for nothing, but the sentiment in the OP that Jones "willed them to victory" when the opposing team scored 3 points all day is stupid...
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He had a good game. But if he didn’t play and Glennon needed to, do you think the Giants lose that game? Given how the defense played I think maybe that is a 15-3 win instead of a 25-3 win with Glennon at QB.
This game was first and foremost about the defense and their dominance. Secondly it was about how bad Sam Darnold was. Third it was about our offense being productive with a skeleton crew.
We allowed 3 points because Jones was getting us enough first downs that even when the drive didn't end up in points, Carolina faced a long field which they could not handle. What we did not have was receiving the ball inside our 20 yard line and promptly going 3 and out with regularity which then gives the defense no time to catch their breath and the opponent has good field position because even the best punters net between 45-47 yards on punts so if you are punting from your 25 that means the other team is starting at their 30 yard line whereas an extra 10 yards could push them inside their 20.
Carolina had five consecutive drives that resulted in one first down. That has nothing to do with having to drive the length of the field because of our offense.
This is a really disingenuous argument.
I laughed. Don't worry it will be nothing we haven't heard before.
The defense limited the Panthers to 3 points. The defense scored two of their own (after the offense failed on goal to go and came away with no points). The defense then gave the offense 4 possessions late starting deep in Panther territory that resulted in the majority of points. 7 of those points came from a one-play drive where Jones handed the ball to Booker who ran it in from 19 yards out.
Why is it fair to say Jones put the team on his back, rather than saying the defense put the team on its back?
Asking for a friend.
As the game played out, field position was huge. In the first half, the offense failed to capitalize on drives by coming away with the points they could have, but their moving the ball was very important in terms of field position. You can say things like 2 pts were on defense for safety, but the offense also plays a role in helping to get Carolina backed up there in the first place. That's complimentary football I mentioned.
What we saw from Jones specifically, is that he was asked to do a lot to compensate for the deficiencies on offense. To counter issues with Oline he was asked to roll out, throw the ball on move and change launch position. He was asked to do more than you would want with his legs to help keep the chains moving and give a measure of running game. He executed on this game plan extremely well and was a huge factor in the win. The 2nd half in particular was nearly flawless.
Agree. It was a silly comment. Jones best game as a pro was not a 200 yard, 1TD game where the offense only needed a FG to win. Just this year the NO game was better. Just about every game he has played against Washington has been better.
The reason I am pointing this out is because the hysterical Jones hyperbole is not just coming from GoTerps and Producer on the negative side. It is also coming from guys like the OP and others on the positive side.
It would be awesome if we could tune out those who are emotionally invested in being right and discuss him with some objectivity. Threads like this and saying he “willed the team to victory” just distract from real discussusion.
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He had a good game. But if he didn’t play and Glennon needed to, do you think the Giants lose that game? Given how the defense played I think maybe that is a 15-3 win instead of a 25-3 win with Glennon at QB.
This game was first and foremost about the defense and their dominance. Secondly it was about how bad Sam Darnold was. Third it was about our offense being productive with a skeleton crew.
We allowed 3 points because Jones was getting us enough first downs that even when the drive didn't end up in points.
This is an absurd statement.
In Jones’ defense, Sy’s write up documents how lousy the OL’s pass protection was. Hernandez and Solder were just awful. But Jones is still not putting up points.
I just don’t think we learned anything at all about Jones on Sunday.
What I a, asking is this…did he put the team on his back and carry the, to victory? I understand complementary football. An individual does not carry a team to victory is you play complementary football.
Again…not saying Jones did not contribute to the win, that he sucks, or that I wish we could fire him into the sun. I am asking about the comments made by Tynes that the OP posted, and the OP’s view that Jones willed the tea, to victory.
Can’t we all agree that there is a fair degree of hyperbole in all of that?
Because what people are referring to is complimentary football. Offense and Defense. NYG offense is without it's top 4 playmakers and
Who are these top 4 playmakers? They seem to be adjusted depending on who is injured or not.
If Shep is injured he is the playmaker that is out, that they cannot possibly win without. If it is Toney ; who played 2 games ? is it him.
Can you really call Barkley a playmaker any more? He has had one good game in like 4 years now?
In this very thread, posters are dramatizing that Jones "willed them to victory" when the other team scores 3 points, and had to roll out and throw on the run to do so. As if this isn't in the job description for NFL QB.
On the other side, being obtuse and downplaying he has to play behind an awful OL with terrible Tackles, very little quality at WR and TE and a pedestrian backup RB (when he knew Barkley was coming back from injury). That moron General Manager is the biggest hurdle to Jones actually succeeding as the NYG QB. Although the response seems to be criticize Jones' critics and not Dave Gettleman from many of you....
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In comment 15429695 Mike from Ohio said:
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He had a good game. But if he didn’t play and Glennon needed to, do you think the Giants lose that game? Given how the defense played I think maybe that is a 15-3 win instead of a 25-3 win with Glennon at QB.
This game was first and foremost about the defense and their dominance. Secondly it was about how bad Sam Darnold was. Third it was about our offense being productive with a skeleton crew.
We allowed 3 points because Jones was getting us enough first downs that even when the drive didn't end up in points, Carolina faced a long field which they could not handle. What we did not have was receiving the ball inside our 20 yard line and promptly going 3 and out with regularity which then gives the defense no time to catch their breath and the opponent has good field position because even the best punters net between 45-47 yards on punts so if you are punting from your 25 that means the other team is starting at their 30 yard line whereas an extra 10 yards could push them inside their 20.
Carolina had five consecutive drives that resulted in one first down. That has nothing to do with having to drive the length of the field because of our offense.
This is a really disingenuous argument.
Yes length of the field matters. Unless it is a huge play, one first down when you are backed up inside the 15 is less likely to result in points or putting us in bad position than a drive starting at the 35.
As a QB and leader on this team I love Daniel Jones. I have wanted this guy to succeed and still want him to succeed. If the Giants do end up moving on from him I hope he lands in a good situation elsewhere and succeeds. I have no doubt he bleeds blue and is doing everything he can to help this team win.
But with what I have seen from him to this point in his career, I would not be in favor of extending his contract and paying him like one of the top QBs in the league. I don't think that will help this team become a perennial playoff contender.
In Jones’ defense, Sy’s write up documents how lousy the OL’s pass protection was. Hernandez and Solder were just awful. But Jones is still not putting up points.
I just don’t think we learned anything at all about Jones on Sunday.
That’s the problem in a nutshell regarding DJ. You just don’t know what exactly you have, so let’s hope he puts together enough quality games by season end and continues to grow and win consistently. If not then we have to make the best business decision for this team moving forward.
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if you are really just concentrating on the snippet from Tynes. I don't see the point in dissecting his comments, I didn't hear him say it and that could lead to a different interpretation than how its read.
Agree. It was a silly comment. Jones best game as a pro was not a 200 yard, 1TD game where the offense only needed a FG to win. Just this year the NO game was better. Just about every game he has played against Washington has been better.
The reason I am pointing this out is because the hysterical Jones hyperbole is not just coming from GoTerps and Producer on the negative side. It is also coming from guys like the OP and others on the positive side.
It would be awesome if we could tune out those who are emotionally invested in being right and discuss him with some objectivity. Threads like this and saying he “willed the team to victory” just distract from real discussusion.
My arguments against Jones have always been based on the same ideas:
1. His issues are going to be very hard to correct at the NFL level
2. His issues now are the same as those he had at Duke, where he never showed himself to be an exceptional player
3. He simply does not get the ball in the end zone enough
4. His running ability is the best part of his game, and the Giants are never going to be willing to feature that
5. He is never going to be worth a second contract
I continue to think he's a backup level NFL quarterback, and expect that's how he'll end up after his time with the Giants ends either after this season or next.
That tough reception alone he made, taking yet another blow to the head, and still holding onto the ball was a perfect example. And the key play on the TD drive that really put the Giants in charge of the game...
Engram - everyone hates him and thinks he should be cut for multiple years now
Pettis - has 52 career catches since being drafted in 2018, 10 of which came in the last 2 weeks
John Ross - former 1st round bust who was cut by Cincinnati
Daniel Jones - big time production
Booker, Rudolph, Johnson
Name a QB who has the privilege of throwing to that group of players.
How dare you! He should be lifting that motley crew to no less than a Super Bowl title or he’s not the guy!
5 yards
33 yards
-12 yards
6 yards
75 yards for TD
Then the wheels fell off of Carolina late in the third and the Giants got 4 short fields. Where’s this idea coming from that we moved the ball so well that it carried the defense?
5 plays / 27 yards / punt
9 plays / 39 yards / turnover on downs
6 plays / 32 yards / FG
5 plays / 5 yards / punt
HALF
3 plays / -12 yards / punt
3 plays / 6 yards / punt
11 plays / 75 yards / TD
6 plays / 19 yards / FG
10 plays / 32 yards /FG
So there was the one long drive (11 plays / 75 yards) that resulted in the TD. Full kudos to Jones on that one.
The next longest drive in terms of yards was 39. The other scoring drives were 32, 19 and 32 yards.
I don't see an offense largely controlling field position. I see a team capitalizing on excellent field position.