for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Sy'56's Giants-Panthers Game Review

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/26/2021 9:25 am
FYI...


Game Review: New York Giants 25 – Carolina Panthers 3 - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Devastating comments about Hernandez  
cosmicj : 10/26/2021 9:36 am : link
Pettis has a big few weeks coming up. He’s a former 2nd rounder. There is no reason he can’t establish himself as a reliable possession WR and figure in the teams future.
Thanks Sy'56  
section125 : 10/26/2021 9:38 am : link
Appreciate your effort and insights.
Thanks SY and I appreacite your  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 9:47 am : link
comments about Darnold and Rosen. That level of honesty makes your reviews and grades far more credible.

Hernandez was absolutely putrid this past week. Solder is done, we all know that but Hernandez is much younger and in theory should be playing better at this stage and he clearly isn't. He constantly looks lost and I am sure the Staff knows this as well. Solder is a necessity right now, ie, we don't have a choice BUT Hernandez was counted on aid after all the injuries he is actually one of the biggest liabilities.

I like Pettis and I think we have a guy who can stick here for a while.

SY- have you ever seen a team that gets their RB tackled for a loss by the backside defender more than the Giants. I mean it happens so often that it must be partially play tip off and scheme deficient. I have never seen more backside tackles from guys who look untouched in the running game. Even in bunch formation we still somehow allow the backside guy to make contact behind the LOS. It is maddening.

We need to no longer go bunch unless we bring in a tackle or DL as an extra blocker. Our TE's are horrible and they aren't fooling anyone with the slip one guy through in the pattern.
Thanks Sy.  
mittenedman : 10/26/2021 9:50 am : link
Some good observations here. Good to see Carter's role reduced. I like the 4-man front of Lawrence & Johnson inside, Williams & Ojulari on the edges.

When B.McKinney is up to speed, they can start creating some problems with blitz packages. Among other things, Crowder (the current 3-down LB) is not an effective blitzer. Get McKinney in there and you've got some kind of threat at ILB. He's an old school MLB in the Jeremiah Trotter mold.
Nice Review Sy, as always  
UberAlias : 10/26/2021 9:53 am : link
Just a question. If by chance Gates is not able to recover as we need him, or even if he is, what have we seen from Billy Price big picture wise --in other words is he a potential answer (OG or OG) into next year, or purely back up material?

Thanks!
It’s interesting how the coaches are not inserting Hernandez in as  
cosmicj : 10/26/2021 9:54 am : link
LG, his longtime position. I suspect they don’t want WH playing anywhere near the two young tackles they are trying to develop. I also suspect if it weren’t for the rash of injuries WH would have been benched.
Great  
AcidTest : 10/26/2021 9:55 am : link
review.

I thought Jones played well considering that Golladay, Shepard, Toney, and Barkley were out, and his OL is makeshift at best. He protected the ball and went through his reads. As I have said, I want to see how Jones plays for the entire season before making any decision about him one way or another. Too many people are too excited or depressed about his future based on one or two games.

I agree that Hernandez was poor. He is part of the reason the Giants have had so much difficulty recognizing simple stunts, and his later mobility is poor. At this point, I wouldn’t resign him. Price also has that same latter problem IMO. He is too easily beaten by swim moves in pass protection. Solder simply isn’t an NFL player anymore. After being beaten early, Peart was solid.

The defense played very well. I agree it will be interesting to see if Roche gets more snaps at the expense of Carter or Ximines. I don’t expect the Giants to resign either of the latter two players. McKinney is a big upgrade over Ragland as you note.
Ojulari developing is very encouraging. As is X. McKinney.  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2021 9:55 am : link
OL is going to be a problem for a while.

Sy, I'm curious what you thought/think of the Golloday signing. Knowing that the Giants were hell bent on a WR in Round 1, di you think they should have signed an OL in FA rather than a WR?
.  
Banks : 10/26/2021 9:56 am : link
Hernandez has been so disappointing. I was so happy we nabbed him where we did, but he hasn't been half the player I hoped
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2021 10:02 am : link
Wow. A game review I look forward to reading for a change! This is new.

(No shot @ sy, his work is incredible. Just nice to read after a win!)
Jesus  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/26/2021 10:11 am : link
Sy just let off a nuclear bomb on Will Hernandez. Damn.
Thanks so much Sy'56  
M.S. : 10/26/2021 10:14 am : link

Highly insightful, informative game review.

Will Hernandez is someone we all want to root for, but your analysis of his play probably means he will be somewhere else next season.
OL depth is such a problem across the league.  
Racer : 10/26/2021 10:14 am : link
Bobby Hart was just signed to the Titans practice squad.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2021 10:18 am : link
What happened to Hernandez? If I recall, he had a solid rookie season. How has he regressed this much?
Sy' Quesiton on the OLBs  
Biteymax22 : 10/26/2021 10:18 am : link
Ellerson Smith has 2 weeks left on his clock, I'm assuming the Giants want him activated to aid in his development.

If there aren't any injuries between now and then, who from the OLB group do you move off the roster so Smith has a spot?
RE: Sy' Quesiton on the OLBs  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15429785 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Ellerson Smith has 2 weeks left on his clock, I'm assuming the Giants want him activated to aid in his development.

If there aren't any injuries between now and then, who from the OLB group do you move off the roster so Smith has a spot?


Denver needs LB's, hence their trade with the rams yesterday. If we could get a 7th rounder for Xman or Carter, I would take it. Neither has long-term written on them here and we might as well add more picks as we will need a LOT of young, cheap, backend guys for next season.
5 out of 7 games with 90+ QB rating  
Chris684 : 10/26/2021 10:21 am : link
With that shitshow of a mash unit on offense?

I’d say not bad at all so far from DJ.
Sy not wanting to make excuses  
Chris684 : 10/26/2021 10:25 am : link
but clinging for some hope. Is it possible Hernandez’s play could in any way be negatively impacted by the corpse of Nate Solder who has been lining up next to him?
i dont know if there was ever a point in time  
cjac : 10/26/2021 10:28 am : link
that anyone thought Hernandez would be any good. He's been awful since day 1. The only reason he's on the field right now is because of injuries. There's a reason why once Lemieux started playing last year Hernandez didnt make it back
Thank you, Sy  
Mike from Ohio : 10/26/2021 10:32 am : link
Great analysis as always.

I have one selfish question that may be way too early to ask, but Fordham has a very intriguing linebacker - Ryan Greenhagen. I watch their games and he jumps off the screen as a tackling machine with incredible instincts. A couple of weeks ago he was injured and will miss the rest of his senior season. He seems to me like one of those RFAs you bring into camp that could actually turn into a solid player. Interested to see if he makes it onto your radar.
SY  
Boatie Warrant : 10/26/2021 10:32 am : link
In your opinion if the Giants have a pick in the top 10 in next uears draft should they go Oline or Defensive front (DL or LB)?

Is the next draft deep at any position IYO?
Hernandez is such a likeable, hard working guy  
widmerseyebrow : 10/26/2021 10:41 am : link
But his pre-draft weaknesses have been on showcase in his career thus far.
Hernandez is also case in point  
widmerseyebrow : 10/26/2021 10:50 am : link
about how this front office (and Reese's FO) pencils in questionable offensive lineman as starters with little to no contingency. Lemieux was a rookie who showed some promise but also struggled a bit. Ditto for Hernandez who then simply struggled the next two years. Both players should have been pushed by someone this last offseason.
Thanks Sy!!  
Beef Wellington : 10/26/2021 10:52 am : link
Love your reviews!!
RE: Sy not wanting to make excuses  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 11:08 am : link
In comment 15429791 Chris684 said:
Quote:
but clinging for some hope. Is it possible Hernandez’s play could in any way be negatively impacted by the corpse of Nate Solder who has been lining up next to him?


NO.. Hernandez absolutely whiffed on two assignments that were clearly his responsibility.
Excellent info as usual Sy  
Joey in VA : 10/26/2021 11:08 am : link
I think the writing was on the wall for what Judge and company thought of the existing LBs when we drafted 5 in 2 years. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Blake Martinez, Reggie Ragland, Bernardrick McKinney have all been added in two years.

I think Skura and Price are a change as well, it's wide bodies who can pull and move and won't get you clobbered. I'm starting to see that DG and Judge have different talent evaluation criteria and it looks like Judge's way is creeping in.
Thank you Sy!  
JB_in_DC : 10/26/2021 11:24 am : link
What a difference consistent pressure makes for a back seven, a defense, and then the offense with turnovers and shortened field. I hope to continue to see more of Roche, and eventually Ellerson Smith in the weeks to come. Regardless of how those two and Ojulari show the rest of the way though, keep building this unit. YCNHTMPR.
RE: RE: Sy not wanting to make excuses  
Beezer : 10/26/2021 11:27 am : link
In comment 15429849 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15429791 Chris684 said:


Quote:


but clinging for some hope. Is it possible Hernandez’s play could in any way be negatively impacted by the corpse of Nate Solder who has been lining up next to him?



NO.. Hernandez absolutely whiffed on two assignments that were clearly his responsibility.


This may be true, on its face. But there's more to it - communication is critical. So, while it's fun and easy to latch onto whipping boys on BBI, I'm not convinced we can so simply lay a "whiff" at the feet of one guy.

It's similar, to me, when a quarterback throws a ball to a spot nowhere near a receiver, whether it's intercepted or it just falls flat. Man, does the quarterback look bad. But what's mentioned much less often than it should be: did that receiver completely screw the pooch on his route? Where was he SUPPOSED to be? And did the quarterback deliver the ball to exactly that spot?

So many more factors involved in evaluating a play or plays than just what you see on the TV screen, or even in person, from a distance.

RE: Excellent info as usual Sy  
M.S. : 10/26/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15429851 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
I think the writing was on the wall for what Judge and company thought of the existing LBs when we drafted 5 in 2 years. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Blake Martinez, Reggie Ragland, Bernardrick McKinney have all been added in two years.

I think Skura and Price are a change as well, it's wide bodies who can pull and move and won't get you clobbered. I'm starting to see that DG and Judge have different talent evaluation criteria and it looks like Judge's way is creeping in.


Gettleman has devoted 24% of his draft selections to Linebacker / EDGE. The NFL average is 13% over the same four years (2018 - 2021).

And the amount of Draft and Free Agent resources he has devoted to the secondary is beyond crazy. Not to mention Gettleman has failed to re-build the O-line.

Oh, well. Next season Dave Gettleman can join BBI as the former GM of the NYG!
RE: RE: RE: Sy not wanting to make excuses  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 11:32 am : link
In comment 15429881 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15429849 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


In comment 15429791 Chris684 said:


Quote:


but clinging for some hope. Is it possible Hernandez’s play could in any way be negatively impacted by the corpse of Nate Solder who has been lining up next to him?



NO.. Hernandez absolutely whiffed on two assignments that were clearly his responsibility.



This may be true, on its face. But there's more to it - communication is critical. So, while it's fun and easy to latch onto whipping boys on BBI, I'm not convinced we can so simply lay a "whiff" at the feet of one guy.

It's similar, to me, when a quarterback throws a ball to a spot nowhere near a receiver, whether it's intercepted or it just falls flat. Man, does the quarterback look bad. But what's mentioned much less often than it should be: did that receiver completely screw the pooch on his route? Where was he SUPPOSED to be? And did the quarterback deliver the ball to exactly that spot?

So many more factors involved in evaluating a play or plays than just what you see on the TV screen, or even in person, from a distance.


I disagree here. It isn't communication when a stunt means you let your guy go (as the G) and the Tackle picks up and you take the stunting player who is now coming up the middle. Instead WH followed his guy right into Solder and they both whiffed that block while WH's responsibility (the lopping/stunting DL) has a free run at Jones.

WH was horrible- I stated as such in another thread before SY's review.
RE: RE: Excellent info as usual Sy  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2021 11:33 am : link
In comment 15429888 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15429851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


I think the writing was on the wall for what Judge and company thought of the existing LBs when we drafted 5 in 2 years. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Blake Martinez, Reggie Ragland, Bernardrick McKinney have all been added in two years.

I think Skura and Price are a change as well, it's wide bodies who can pull and move and won't get you clobbered. I'm starting to see that DG and Judge have different talent evaluation criteria and it looks like Judge's way is creeping in.



Gettleman has devoted 24% of his draft selections to Linebacker / EDGE. The NFL average is 13% over the same four years (2018 - 2021).

And the amount of Draft and Free Agent resources he has devoted to the secondary is beyond crazy. Not to mention Gettleman has failed to re-build the O-line.

Oh, well. Next season Dave Gettleman can join BBI as the former GM of the NYG!


"Gettleman has devoted 24% of his draft selections to Linebacker / EDGE. The NFL average is 13% over the same four years (2018 - 2021)." is meaningless without weighting the picks. Many of them the last few years have been 6th and 7th rounders like Crowder and Coughlin who have represented good value for where they were chosen.
All due respect,  
Beezer : 10/26/2021 11:34 am : link
you don't have enough information to make that judgment.
RE: All due respect,  
Beezer : 10/26/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15429900 Beezer said:
Quote:
you don't have enough information to make that judgment.


In response to jvm.
RE: RE: All due respect,  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15429901 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15429900 Beezer said:


Quote:


you don't have enough information to make that judgment.



In response to jvm.


Sure I do go back and look at that play. It isn't Solder's responsibility on the stunting player as we would have to run through WH to get to that guy. So, common sense and general football knowledge says WH's responsibility was to pass his guy to Solder and then peel back and take the stunting player. WH didn't do that and chased his guy, running into Solder in the process and let the stunting player have a free run.

This isn't guess work or even close to the same issue you mentioned about an int and the real responsible party. There is no other way this play should have gone based on basic OL blocking schemes and techniques. WH was completely out of place- period.
RE: RE: RE: Excellent info as usual Sy  
M.S. : 10/26/2021 11:42 am : link
In comment 15429899 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15429888 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15429851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


I think the writing was on the wall for what Judge and company thought of the existing LBs when we drafted 5 in 2 years. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Blake Martinez, Reggie Ragland, Bernardrick McKinney have all been added in two years.

I think Skura and Price are a change as well, it's wide bodies who can pull and move and won't get you clobbered. I'm starting to see that DG and Judge have different talent evaluation criteria and it looks like Judge's way is creeping in.



Gettleman has devoted 24% of his draft selections to Linebacker / EDGE. The NFL average is 13% over the same four years (2018 - 2021).

And the amount of Draft and Free Agent resources he has devoted to the secondary is beyond crazy. Not to mention Gettleman has failed to re-build the O-line.

Oh, well. Next season Dave Gettleman can join BBI as the former GM of the NYG!



"Gettleman has devoted 24% of his draft selections to Linebacker / EDGE. The NFL average is 13% over the same four years (2018 - 2021)." is meaningless without weighting the picks. Many of them the last few years have been 6th and 7th rounders like Crowder and Coughlin who have represented good value for where they were chosen.

Azeez Ojulari with the 50th pick may prove to be real good value, but Lorenzo Carter with 66th pick and Oshane Ximines with 95th pick probably not.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Excellent info as usual Sy  
JB_in_DC : 10/26/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15429917 M.S. said:
Quote:
Azeez Ojulari with the 50th pick may prove to be real good value, but Lorenzo Carter with 66th pick and Oshane Ximines with 95th pick probably not.


Also damning for DG and the Giants FO is that in this span they have not committed much resources to EDGE during FA and have missed out on some guys who have done really well in recent years like Shaq Barrett, Matt Judon, and as Sy mentions, Hasaan Reddick. Pass rushers aren't like OTs, good ones do shake loose in FA.

Giants need to look for guys who were given limited opportunities on teams that are loaded at EDGE. Or rebuilding teams looking to avoid long term financial commitments. Whereas a rebuilding team will want to keep a talented OT to help develop a QB, they might be more willing to let a talented pass rusher go.
..  
ryanmkeane : 10/26/2021 12:03 pm : link
and here i thought Hernandez looked OK out there. Jeez.
Thanks Sy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/26/2021 12:07 pm : link
I think the writing was on the wall when they moved WH to RG. I believe they were hoping to replace him but he most certainly is gone after the season.

Good news on Price. Finding a potential starter (s) or at least quality depth from all the additions will really help them focus on BPA with the 5 picks they have in the first 100.

Great news on Olijari and McKinney.
Hernandez  
stretch234 : 10/26/2021 12:39 pm : link
Easy to say need a vet to push him, however the reality of this sport is that there is a salary cap and fixed roster size. Veteran OL usually do not stay as backups since there is always a need for OL around the league. If you have to pay a veteran as a backup the complaints come in that you are wasting cap space

Everyone thought he was an excellent pick at the time and that he would be a very good player. It hasn’t happened

No one has OL depth - you just hope that what you have can be serviceable
RE: Hernandez  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/26/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15430037 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Easy to say need a vet to push him, however the reality of this sport is that there is a salary cap and fixed roster size. Veteran OL usually do not stay as backups since there is always a need for OL around the league. If you have to pay a veteran as a backup the complaints come in that you are wasting cap space

Everyone thought he was an excellent pick at the time and that he would be a very good player. It hasn’t happened

No one has OL depth - you just hope that what you have can be serviceable


You have to commit to it every year. You should draft at least 3 from the draft/UDFA. Lineman can be developed with a outstanding OL coach. You want to build a strong pipeline to avoid having to sign a Solder or give a second contract to WH as an example. Next year they need to probably invest a second rounder on a interior guy.
Austin Johnson has done a nice job  
jeff57 : 10/26/2021 1:40 pm : link
Definitely would like to see more of Quincy Roche.
Are any of the new additions on the OL worth keeping?  
George from PA : 10/26/2021 1:53 pm : link
Skura seems small compared to the other guys.

Price has balance issues...needs ballet lessons

tremendous  
mpinmaine : 10/26/2021 2:46 pm : link
review..right on the $!
jvm ...  
Beezer : 10/26/2021 3:36 pm : link
Lets say I concede your position, and even give you the second play. You specifically mentioned 2 plays and because of them, Hernandez was, and I quote, horrible. Not sure how many people on BBI think he's horrible. Maybe he's not what we thought he MIGHT be after his rookie season, but horrible?
RE: Are any of the new additions on the OL worth keeping?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/26/2021 3:47 pm : link
In comment 15430168 George from PA said:
Quote:
Skura seems small compared to the other guys.

Price has balance issues...needs ballet lessons


Skura probably. As a backup, not a starter.
RE: jvm ...  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15430380 Beezer said:
Quote:
Lets say I concede your position, and even give you the second play. You specifically mentioned 2 plays and because of them, Hernandez was, and I quote, horrible. Not sure how many people on BBI think he's horrible. Maybe he's not what we thought he MIGHT be after his rookie season, but horrible?


I get what you are saying and perhaps horrible is a bit much considering the overall state of our Oline BUT, he was a guy who we were counting on. He just doesn't play smart enough and with his lack of mobility (fluidity) he has become a liability. Truthfully, if we had Peart at RT and Thomas at LT with say either Gates or Lemieux in their spots I think Bresden, Skura and maybe even Price would be starting in his spot. His play has never improved and honestly he was a major culprit in a number of shots on Jones this past week.
I hear you.  
Beezer : 10/26/2021 4:42 pm : link
I still think Hernandez might end up being the "long-term" (20-3 years of decency) at RG if/when we get some other pieces plugged in. I'm hopeful for OL this next draft, and maybe a vet FA who has some good gas in the tank. That might be fun for a bit.
RE: Devastating comments about Hernandez  
allstarjim : 10/26/2021 4:55 pm : link
In comment 15429722 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Pettis has a big few weeks coming up. He’s a former 2nd rounder. There is no reason he can’t establish himself as a reliable possession WR and figure in the teams future.


Hernandez is Sy's favorite punching bag. I love the guy, enjoy his write ups, but I think he grades on a curve when it comes to Hernandez vis a vis the others. There is no way Hernandez was worse than Solder or Price. And I saw him miss the stunt, I saw Brown beat him. I also saw him move bodies in the run game and play very well against Fox and Da'Quon Jones in pass pro.

Hernandez is not perfect, but he's far from the worst on the line.
I know one thing, we expressed our opinions, gave a little to each  
jvm52106 : 10/26/2021 4:57 pm : link
and clearly showed it is possible to not agree and still have a solid discourse. It is the exact opposite of what happens on most Jones threads.

We definitely need to address the Oline further with Quality, not quantity. If we can get a top notch Guard / Center in the draft (no later than rds 3 or 4) that would help greatly. I am not sure we can count on Gates coming back. Shane l. is still a bit of projection but he does provide some hope.
RE: I know one thing, we expressed our opinions, gave a little to each  
allstarjim : 10/26/2021 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15430525 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
and clearly showed it is possible to not agree and still have a solid discourse. It is the exact opposite of what happens on most Jones threads.

We definitely need to address the Oline further with Quality, not quantity. If we can get a top notch Guard / Center in the draft (no later than rds 3 or 4) that would help greatly. I am not sure we can count on Gates coming back. Shane l. is still a bit of projection but he does provide some hope.


I agree with this and the commentary the Giants should be drafting OL every year. This year, I believe they should be using at least 2 premium picks on OL, and probably 3, given they have 5 premium picks (two 1sts, one 2nd, and two 3rds).

There should be no higher charge to whoever the GM is than to infuse this line with as much talent as possible. Get an EDGE, sure. Get a DT, sure. But get this OL some talented players. I would not be upset at all if they drafted 4 OL (out of 11 picks), in fact, I'd advocate for it.
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner