Daniel Jones pass rankings after 7 Weeks

In comment 15430059 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

3 TD's per game will make him compete for records of most passing TD's in a season. I don't want a Jameis Winston throwing 50 TD's and 30 INT's while losing games. If you want to look at QB's, I would say scoring percentage in red zone matters more than passing TD's. We are struggling in that area and not sure if it is Jones or Garrett or some combination of both for that.

Speaking of Jameis Winston, I have to imagine that Bucs fans were engaging in the same sort of debates about him during his first few seasons as we've had about Jones. If so, what side of that debate seems to be winning the argument so far?

You are making my point for me

Herbert and Stafford have great supporting casts
They have the time and the players that allow them to make plays

If they were harassed as Jones is they could not consistently make these plays

Based upon your evaluations Stafford would have been a failure while at Detroit.
He is only now able to reach his potential

Has become laughable.

You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.

Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.

DO you not realize how obsessive that is?

In comment 15430176 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm

Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.

Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.

What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.

You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.

"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"

In comment 15430244 Archer said:

Quote:

You are making my point for me Herbert and Stafford have great supporting casts They have the time and the players that allow them to make plays If they were harassed as Jones is they could not consistently make these plays Based upon your evaluations Stafford would have been a failure while at Detroit. He is only now able to reach his potential

I suggest you listen to Greg Cosell who has raved about Stafford's isolated arm talent for a decade, from the point he entered the league. When Jones entered the league he said of DJ, he has limited throwing ability and must be managed with defined reads to win in this league. See the difference? I'm not saying Stafford has great arm talent because he has great stats or a great supporting cast. I'm saying Stafford has great arm talent because he can literally throw the ball further than DJ and make more difficult throws. he makes difficult throws that Jones can't even attempt. This is obvious , by the way to most observers. Stafford has a better arm than Jones every which way. If you cannot admit it, I don't know where we go from here. I suggest you look up youtube videos of Stafford throws. He's a different animal. Herbert too. That famous throw Herbert made against Dallas. Jones won't even try that. Jones is a tier or two below those guys in arm talent, right? If w3e can't agree on something so obvious what's the point of continuing.

In comment 15430258 montanagiant said:

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Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is?

Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.

In comment 15430265 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"

Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.

Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.

Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.

In comment 15430269 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430258 montanagiant said: Quote: Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is? Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.

Furthermore, questioning the sample size and integrity of a stat is certainly a fair rebuttal. You are smart enough to know this.

Again what are you basing your assessment that Jones does not have a strong arm

Is there any empirical data or is this just your observations

If it is your observations than I can't accept this as a fact
To my eye Jones can and has made every throw
He throws a great deep ball with accuracy and velocity
He can throw on the run and across his body

He does not make off platform throws but that is more related to how he was trained

To put into context I was a high school QB and played FB/H Back on offense and monster back on defense at Tulane U..

I was always a frustrated QB at heart and was disappointed that I was not good enough to play QB collegiately
My evaluations and opinions of Jones are no better than any others but they do come with some level of training

Jones is not flashy and does not make many highlight plays but that does not diminish his ability to pass the ball

In comment 15430288 Archer said:

Quote:

Again what are you basing your assessment that Jones does not have a strong arm Is there any empirical data or is this just your observations If it is your observations than I can't accept this as a fact To my eye Jones can and has made every throw He throws a great deep ball with accuracy and velocity He can throw on the run and across his body He does not make off platform throws but that is more related to how he was trained To put into context I was a high school QB and played FB/H Back on offense and monster back on defense at Tulane U.. I was always a frustrated QB at heart and was disappointed that I was not good enough to play QB collegiately My evaluations and opinions of Jones are no better than any others but they do come with some level of training Jones is not flashy and does not make many highlight plays but that does not diminish his ability to pass the ball

Here is a throw that Daniel Jones can't make. Period.
Justin Herbert INSANE Throw to Keenan Allen | Cowboys vs. Chargers - ( New Window )

In comment 15430236 Producer said:

Quote:

I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones.

He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.

Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws

Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6

Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?

When Jones was drafted it was thought that he did not have arm talent it was also thought that he was not athletic.

This was opinions from people who had never seen him play

These ideas have followed him regardless of what he does

Bye the Cosell has been extremely complimentary about Jones and even mentions his arm strength
I am looking for the video so that I can share

Jones was thought to run a 4.8 forty, what would they have thought if he ran a 4.5 forty ?

In comment 15430298 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 15430236 Producer said: Quote: I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones. He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw. Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4 Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7 Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6 Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?

Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility.

In comment 15430298 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 15430236 Producer said: Quote: I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones. He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw. Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4 Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7 Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6 Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?

I concede that Jones has an adequate NFL arm. Deep outs are not real concern for opposing defenses though. That matters. It is not an obstacle to greatness though. It boils down to whether he can put the ball into the end zone with consistency and maintain his increased efficiency. He has to prove that though.

He has not.

In comment 15430277 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430265 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see" Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read. Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.

Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.

Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!

I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.

Good day sir.

He doesn't have a Mahomes/Josh Allen/Herbert arm, but he doesn't have to. The problem isn't arm strength, it is processing. He has a hard time coming off of his initial read. He throws a good deep ball because he has time, and he can look off the safeties. The shorter patterns are where the problems lie. He rushes things, locks onto his primary, and gets inaccurate when he has to go to secondary receivers.

In comment 15430317 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 15430277 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430265 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see" Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read. Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging. Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier! I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on. Good day sir.

Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.

Just ignore him. Producer and a bunch of posters in the anti-Jones crowd are fools. They spend all their day looking for something to criticize instead of enjoying watching the team develop. The fact that this bullshit comes up after a 25-3 win (the best win they have had in in like 10 years) is all the proof you need. Just go away already. Nobody but 5-10 other posters in your little group want to hear anything you have to say.

In comment 15430302 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430298 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430236 Producer said: Quote: I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones. He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw. Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4 Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7 Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6 Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy? Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility.

Y/A includes things like YAC and doesn't include things like drops. A better stat to look at if anything would be Y/C which is yards per completion but still includes things like YAC which I showed you above Herbert was benefitting from compared to DJ. Herbert YAC or yards per completed pass is 11 compared to DJ 11.3. Really if you want to be real you take Herberts yard per completion and take out his YAC compared to DJs and the numbers get even worse for him when it comes to deeper passing per completion. Yes strong arm is better, no not as accurate deep down the field. Hope that helps you finally.

In comment 15430165 Producer said:
[quote] In comment 15430150 Archer said:


Quote:


The PFF stats are more reliable than the ordinary stats
They take into consideration context and that is important

However, regardless of what the stats say, what does the eye test say

Great athlete (yes)
Can make all the throws (yes)
Top long ball passer (yes)
Great runner (yes)
Tough and courageous (yes)
Smart (yes)
Hard worker (yes)
Does he show improvement in areas of weakness (yes)
A leader (yes)
Is he getting better (yes)




I like PFF in general, but their QB stats are open to a lot of question. Their top-10 lists seem random and littered with lesser talents.

Jones cannot make all the throws. He is not a great deep ball passer (as I have said that stat is based on a tiny sample size), and he does not have a great arm. He may be smart but he seems to lack crucial football smarts and instincts. He lacks poise in the pocket. he makes too many mistakes. He is slow to read the field. he suffers from short to intermediate accuracy issues, he locks onto his first read and bird dogs receivers, etc [/quote
This is your opinion. Are you a QB coach or a scout? I see QBs every week make mistakes.

In comment 15430324 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430317 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430277 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430265 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see" Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read. Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging. Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier! I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on. Good day sir. Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.

Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn.

In comment 15430019 Amtoft said:

Quote:

Herbert is throwing to Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Cooks at TE, Ekeler the best receiving back in the game, with Ekeler running the ball at RB, and a better OL not to mention better play caller.

Last year, Herbert had one of the worst pass protecting OLs in the NFL. Yet, his QBR was the best in the NFL when he was under pressure. How do you account for that?

Furthermore, who is this "better play caller"? Lombardi? This is Herbert's second year and he's on his second OC. His OC in 2020 was Shane Steichen, who is now in Philly. And this is ostensibly Lomardi's first full time OC gig.

In comment 15430356 Amtoft said:

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In comment 15430324 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430317 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430277 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430265 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see" Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read. Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging. Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier! I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on. Good day sir. Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101. Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn.

Jones doesn't process the whole field anyway, and he chokes under pressure. They need to mitigate his mistakes by having him roll out and making reads easier for him, get it? He's not Brady back there in case you haven't noticed. Try not to be so obnoxious next time.

In comment 15430340 Amtoft said:

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In comment 15430302 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430298 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430236 Producer said: Quote: I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones. He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw. Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4 Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7 Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6 Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy? Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility. Y/A includes things like YAC and doesn't include things like drops. A better stat to look at if anything would be Y/C which is yards per completion but still includes things like YAC which I showed you above Herbert was benefitting from compared to DJ. Herbert YAC or yards per completed pass is 11 compared to DJ 11.3. Really if you want to be real you take Herberts yard per completion and take out his YAC compared to DJs and the numbers get even worse for him when it comes to deeper passing per completion. Yes strong arm is better, no not as accurate deep down the field. Hope that helps you finally.

So your argument is that Jones is better than Herbert and more accurate, even though Herbert's accuracy stats are better. Nice try but who's the one cherry-picking stats. I suggest you go on twitter and insist Daniel jones is better than Justin Herbert. He's not, and you can't find a single credible QB analyst who would agree with you. You should find spots of Cosell discussing Herbert. I'm paraphrasing but he said Herbert is just a different cat from everybody else. He's bigger than Josh Allen, stronger than everyone and the ball comes out like no other. Did you look at that throw I posted above. Jones doesn't even attempt that throw, if he even sees it.

If you want to see what Jones can do in a different offense
Watch what he did in his rookie year

Forget the turnovers just watch what he does in a passing offense

Garrett is destroying Jones
Look at the redzone plays they do not exist in this offense
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15430360 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15430019 Amtoft said: Quote: Herbert is throwing to Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Cooks at TE, Ekeler the best receiving back in the game, with Ekeler running the ball at RB, and a better OL not to mention better play caller. Last year, Herbert had one of the worst pass protecting OLs in the NFL. Yet, his QBR was the best in the NFL when he was under pressure. How do you account for that? Furthermore, who is this "better play caller"? Lombardi? This is Herbert's second year and he's on his second OC. His OC in 2020 was Shane Steichen, who is now in Philly. And this is ostensibly Lomardi's first full time OC gig.

Herbert last year was not behind Nate Solder, Skur, Price, Hernandez, and Peart. His line sucked, but come on. That is the worst starting OL I have ever seen. He also had Keenan Allen who is open like every play to get right of the ball quickly. That helps I think we can all agree when there is a heavy pass rush. I will also throw in the QBR is a subjective rating. It will for the most part mirror a winning team. Of course a fair point can be made they are a winning team because of the play of the QB.

Saying that... Your question was why was his QBR was so good when under pressure... He is a good freaking QB with great weapons. No one is saying Herbert isn't a good QB he is great. He has the potential to be Elite really and I would even say he is clearly moving that way.

As for your second question. Yes I believe both those OC are better than Garrett at play calling, well let me correct that. I think Garrett with the right talent can make his system work and when he lacks talent at the skill position like last year or this year with injuries he tries to over correct with more gadgety type plays to try and make up for deficiency. This has worked between the hashes, however has hurt his play calling in the redzone. He has made some of the not only most puzzling, but worst play calling I have ever seen inside the 5 yard especially. I do not believe the other two would be making the same type of bad calls compared to what he has shown.

In comment 15430394 Archer said:

Quote:

If you want to see what Jones can do in a different offense Watch what he did in his rookie year Forget the turnovers just watch what he does in a passing offense Garrett is destroying Jones Look at the redzone plays they do not exist in this offense Link - ( New Window )

a bit swamped with work but i will check later.

In comment 15430363 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430356 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430324 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430317 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430277 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430265 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430176 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430158 compton said: Quote: In comment 15429924 mittenedman said: Quote: All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL. What's your point? Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play. I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab. pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man. Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument. What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold. You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it. "he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see" Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read. Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging. Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player. Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier! I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on. Good day sir. Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101. Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn. Jones doesn't process the whole field anyway, and he chokes under pressure. They need to mitigate his mistakes by having him roll out and making reads easier for him, get it? He's not Brady back there in case you haven't noticed. Try not to be so obnoxious next time.

Except you are wrong. He didn't roll out hardly at all in Washington game and brought them back under pressure in a game we should have won. He brought them back and won the New Orleans game under huge pressure. He sat in the pocket with time and made play after play to lead us back to win the game. The difference... Barkley, Golladay, Toney, Thomas. Really I say Thomas is our hugest loss. It is forcing all these roll outs and quick plays because we can't protect him. If you want to look at stats. Go look at Daniel Jones stats when he has even a little time and he can sit in the pocket and YES read the whole field... He is a pretty damn good. It is what give me hope that he is going to continue to grow into a really good QB because he is very accurate and does throw a very nice deep back.

I am curious if you would change your opinion when you watch him in a passing offense

In comment 15430269 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430258 montanagiant said: Quote: Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is? Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.

LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself

In comment 15430446 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 15430269 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430258 montanagiant said: Quote: Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is? Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season. LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself

Is there anyone else that has started 3 separate Daniel Jones threads since the season started? I mean Producer has to be among the league leaders.

And Daniel Jones has thrown the ball some 240 times and managed 5 touchdowns.
Sorry, but you can't get away from that. I'm not saying it won't change, but until DJ starts throwing touchdown passes, I can't really endorse him for next season.

In comment 15430481 Gruber said:

Quote:

And Daniel Jones has thrown the ball some 240 times and managed 5 touchdowns. Sorry, but you can't get away from that. I'm not saying it won't change, but until DJ starts throwing touchdown passes, I can't really endorse him for next season.

But he might beat his total of 11 from last year!!

Watch the video that I previously posted
It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense

Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field
But what is most apparent is his redzone success

It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone

They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc.

Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone

You cannot throw TDs without opportunity
Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes

In comment 15430497 Archer said:

Quote:

Watch the video that I previously posted It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field But what is most apparent is his redzone success It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc. Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone You cannot throw TDs without opportunity Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes

yes. that 3rd and goal play Sunday was typical. 1 receiver in the play. everyone in the CAR 2ndary would have to blow coverage or trip to get TD pass there.

IDGAF What if so and was on such team? That is an argument?

2 words

Objective evidence.

In 2019 he threw for 24 TDs 12 Ints 19 fumbles

In 2020 he threw for 11 TDs 10 Ints 10 fumbles

In 2021 he threw for 5 Tds 4 Ints 5 fumbles

It isn't good enough. It is 2021 not 1984. I cannot believe how upset some of you are because people will not call Jones a franchise QB. I can't even. Can we at least get TDs to equal fumbles + Ints before we extend him?

Holy shit.

In comment 15430497 Archer said:

Quote:

Watch the video that I previously posted It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field But what is most apparent is his redzone success It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc. Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone You cannot throw TDs without opportunity Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes

You're talking as if 2019 is a good barometer to demonstrate that the offense was any good. Sure, they were more successful than 2020 but that doesn't prove much.

Jones had very good games against the Redskins, Jets and Lions. Cool. All bottom teams of the league in 2019.

Other than that, he looked flat.

In comment 15430521 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

IDGAF What if so and was on such team? That is an argument? 2 words Objective evidence. In 2019 he threw for 24 TDs 12 Ints 19 fumbles In 2020 he threw for 11 TDs 10 Ints 10 fumbles In 2021 he threw for 5 Tds 4 Ints 5 fumbles It isn't good enough. It is 2021 not 1984. I cannot believe how upset some of you are because people will not call Jones a franchise QB. I can't even. Can we at least get TDs to equal fumbles + Ints before we extend him? Holy shit.

Omit the "I can't even" and I agree with you. 100%.

11 TD throws for a starting QB in 2020 NFL is fucking pathetic

In comment 15430527 Route 9 said:

Quote:

In comment 15430521 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: IDGAF What if so and was on such team? That is an argument? 2 words Objective evidence. In 2019 he threw for 24 TDs 12 Ints 19 fumbles In 2020 he threw for 11 TDs 10 Ints 10 fumbles In 2021 he threw for 5 Tds 4 Ints 5 fumbles It isn't good enough. It is 2021 not 1984. I cannot believe how upset some of you are because people will not call Jones a franchise QB. I can't even. Can we at least get TDs to equal fumbles + Ints before we extend him? Holy shit. Omit the "I can't even" and I agree with you. 100%.

I would if I could edit :)

In comment 15430497 Archer said:

Quote:

Watch the video that I previously posted It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field But what is most apparent is his redzone success It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc. Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone You cannot throw TDs without opportunity Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes

But in 2019 he made mistakes and turnovers at an unsustainable rate. Then they put the training wheels on, in year two, so now we have a QB who doesn't turn the ball over but he can't score points. Remember we had five points at the end of the third Q on Sunday. That's pathetic. He has 5 TDs all season. It's abysmal. Jones has yet to show that he can function in a normal offense without making killer mistakes. period and end of story. Until he does it, you shouldn't assume it, because that's a very hard thing to do and he is in year 3 and still hasn't done it.

It's like saying a good physicist should be Einstein, he has all the tools. Yea, but until he does something brilliant, he's not Einstein.

In comment 15430457 Amtoft said:

Quote:

In comment 15430446 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 15430269 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430258 montanagiant said: Quote: Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is? Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season. LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself Is there anyone else that has started 3 separate Daniel Jones threads since the season started? I mean Producer has to be among the league leaders.

I doubt it, but all he ever comes here and posts about is Jones when it's a NY Giants football thread. The better the game Jones has the more he flails about attacking him

In comment 15430703 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 15430457 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 15430446 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 15430269 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430258 montanagiant said: Quote: Has become laughable. You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit. Here are some stats for you: Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools. DO you not realize how obsessive that is? Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season. LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself Is there anyone else that has started 3 separate Daniel Jones threads since the season started? I mean Producer has to be among the league leaders. I doubt it, but all he ever comes here and posts about is Jones when it's a NY Giants football thread. The better the game Jones has the more he flails about attacking him

This isn't true montana. I have always been civil to you and I'd appreciate the same treatment. This wasn't some great game by Jones. it was an adequate effort. We had 5 points with a minute to go in the 3rd Q. My point is we should expect more. As a Giants fan I would think you would want more out of this team. Why do you care if Jones is the QB if the team is hot garbage. Would you take a new QB if it meant we could build a sustained winner?

The number of times I comment on Jones is totally immaterial to the points I am making. try and keep to the issues rather than ad hominem nonsense.

Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Patrick Mahomes
Tom Brady
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Lamar Jackson
Dak Prescott

and lookie here, DANIEL JONES.

Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites.
Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses.

In comment 15430730 MOOPS said:

Quote:

Joe Burrow Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Matthew Stafford Kyler Murray Lamar Jackson Dak Prescott and lookie here, DANIEL JONES. Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites. Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Thanks, MOOPS..

other beneficiaries of the player of the week award include Mariota, Trubisky, Brisset, Osweiler, Tyrod Taylor, etc, you get the picture.

In comment 15430733 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430730 MOOPS said: Quote: Joe Burrow Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Matthew Stafford Kyler Murray Lamar Jackson Dak Prescott and lookie here, DANIEL JONES. Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites. Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses. Thanks, MOOPS.. other beneficiaries of the player of the week award include Mariota, Trubisky, Brisset, Osweiler, Tyrod Taylor, etc, you get the picture.

In 2021? I think not. Just the ones I mentioned.
Please don't expand the parameters to suit your narrative.

In comment 15430738 MOOPS said:

Quote:

In comment 15430733 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430730 MOOPS said: Quote: Joe Burrow Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Matthew Stafford Kyler Murray Lamar Jackson Dak Prescott and lookie here, DANIEL JONES. Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites. Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses. Thanks, MOOPS.. other beneficiaries of the player of the week award include Mariota, Trubisky, Brisset, Osweiler, Tyrod Taylor, etc, you get the picture. In 2021? I think not. Just the ones I mentioned. Please don't expand the parameters to suit your narrative.

And please don't arbitrarily narrow the data to try to make your point. It is instructive to note that winning a POTW award is an unremarkable achievement in the career of an NFL QB, and even QBs who we would all agree are terrible and abject failures win them. That is a fair interpretation of the POTW data. Your arbitrary limitation to the winners of this season is meaningless noise. If you are going to come at me with a debate topic you'll have to do better than this weak shit.

In comment 15430742 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15430738 MOOPS said: Quote: In comment 15430733 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430730 MOOPS said: Quote: Joe Burrow Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Matthew Stafford Kyler Murray Lamar Jackson Dak Prescott and lookie here, DANIEL JONES. Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites. Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses. Thanks, MOOPS.. other beneficiaries of the player of the week award include Mariota, Trubisky, Brisset, Osweiler, Tyrod Taylor, etc, you get the picture. In 2021? I think not. Just the ones I mentioned. Please don't expand the parameters to suit your narrative. And please don't arbitrarily narrow the data to try to make your point. It is instructive to note that winning a POTW award is an unremarkable achievement in the career of an NFL QB, and even QBs who we would all agree are terrible and abject failures win them. That is a fair interpretation of the POTW data. Your arbitrary limitation to the winners of this season is meaningless noise. If you are going to come at me with a debate topic you'll have to do better than this weak shit.

I presented the data as 2021. Black and white. You can go back and read and verify that if you like. It's not arbitrary.
You want to call it meaningless, feel free if it makes you feel better. I'm preety sure your ego's taken a beating today
But it's far from 'weak shit' in a 'what have you done for me lately' world.

In comment 15430779 MOOPS said:

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In comment 15430742 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430738 MOOPS said: Quote: In comment 15430733 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15430730 MOOPS said: Quote: Joe Burrow Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Matthew Stafford Kyler Murray Lamar Jackson Dak Prescott and lookie here, DANIEL JONES. Hey Producer, old Danny Boy's up there with all your favorites. Or maybe it's the rest of them trying to keep up with the Joneses. Thanks, MOOPS.. other beneficiaries of the player of the week award include Mariota, Trubisky, Brisset, Osweiler, Tyrod Taylor, etc, you get the picture. In 2021? I think not. Just the ones I mentioned. Please don't expand the parameters to suit your narrative. And please don't arbitrarily narrow the data to try to make your point. It is instructive to note that winning a POTW award is an unremarkable achievement in the career of an NFL QB, and even QBs who we would all agree are terrible and abject failures win them. That is a fair interpretation of the POTW data. Your arbitrary limitation to the winners of this season is meaningless noise. If you are going to come at me with a debate topic you'll have to do better than this weak shit. I presented the data as 2021. Black and white. You can go back and read and verify that if you like. It's not arbitrary. You want to call it meaningless, feel free if it makes you feel better. I'm preety sure your ego's taken a beating today But it's far from 'weak shit' in a 'what have you done for me lately' world.

Umm my ego is quite intact. The presumption you are making is POTW award is meaningful, placing the winners in a unique set of talents, but with more data we see that it is not just great talents that win it, but also banal talents. You haven't even presented an argument. Just an incomplete data set, and an ad hominem attack. Quit while you have a semblance of dignity.

In comment 15430039 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 15429987 Section331 said: Quote: In comment 15429955 Strahan91 said: Quote: Go look at Brady's stats in 2019 with little skill position talent and an average OL vs 2020 and 2021 with top skill position guys and OL and tell me it doesn't matter... You're not helping yourself by bringing up Brady in a Daniel Jones discussion. I already made an apt comparison, or are you going to argue that the 1-15 Jaguars had a better supporting cast? Straw man. Minshew's stats are heavily influenced by garbage time when they were getting blown out. Hell, their average point differential was -11.6. In fact his completion percentage in the red zone was 40%. The team won 1 game after all so this isn't rocket science and yet their backs averaged a full ypa more than the giants backs have but hey... never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.

This is where things get tricky - you're discounting Minshew's stats because of garbage time stat-padding, but the Giants face a significant amount of garbage time themselves. Some of that is baked into DJ's stats as well. Which is to say that if you are going to toss a Minshew comparison out because of garbage time stats, you are also suggesting that DJ's own stats are somewhat inflated, right?