Yesterday, during numerous discussions it was said the "question was settled" and Jones is the answer, and Daniel Jones is "near elite".
For everybody's reference here are Daniel Jones pass rankings after 7 Weeks:
Y/A: 21st (last week: 18)
QBR: 22nd (lw: 22)
QB Rating 26th (lw: 26)
TD% 32nd (lw: 32)
sack% 16th (lw: 13)
Red Zone Passing
Cmp% Inside 20: 34% worst among starting QBs (lw: 27%)
Cmp% Inside 10: 30% 29th among starting QBs (lw: 14%)
There are few if any QB's that would have significant stats with this team right now without 4 of its TOP playmakers and on its 6th or 7th OL combination.
Jones has cut down turnovers (his biggest liability). He has done what is asked of him and has held the offense together.
Nothing else matters right now without other pieces in place.
You are using stats to fit your narrative and then ignoring stats when it works against you.
There are few if any QB's that would have significant stats with this team right now without 4 of its TOP playmakers and on its 6th or 7th OL combination.
Jones has cut down turnovers (his biggest liability). He has done what is asked of him and has held the offense together.
Nothing else matters right now without other pieces in place.
You are using stats to fit your narrative and then ignoring stats when it works against you.
I am just posting stats, as I did last week. If they go up and get better, great. I will happily post the same stats. I don't have a *narrative*. These are objective measures by which we judge QB performance.
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and quite frankly lacking in any sort of real football acumen.
There are few if any QB's that would have significant stats with this team right now without 4 of its TOP playmakers and on its 6th or 7th OL combination.
Jones has cut down turnovers (his biggest liability). He has done what is asked of him and has held the offense together.
Nothing else matters right now without other pieces in place.
You are using stats to fit your narrative and then ignoring stats when it works against you.
I am just posting stats, as I did last week. If they go up and get better, great. I will happily post the same stats. I don't have a *narrative*. These are objective measures by which we judge QB performance.
You do have a narrative, you hate Jones and make sure to post things that you feel PROVE your belief. The fact you said Elite, when NOBODY here has said that, proves my point.
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and quite frankly lacking in any sort of real football acumen.
There are few if any QB's that would have significant stats with this team right now without 4 of its TOP playmakers and on its 6th or 7th OL combination.
Jones has cut down turnovers (his biggest liability). He has done what is asked of him and has held the offense together.
Nothing else matters right now without other pieces in place.
You are using stats to fit your narrative and then ignoring stats when it works against you.
I am just posting stats, as I did last week. If they go up and get better, great. I will happily post the same stats. I don't have a *narrative*. These are objective measures by which we judge QB performance.
Except they are not objective measures and many are tied to each other. For example, QB rating is impacted by Y/A and TD%. It also doesn't take into account garbage time versus plays when the outcome is more in doubt. It does not factor in braindead play calling. Who in their bright mind thinks a rollout with Evan Engram as your only target on that side is a good idea besides Jason Garrett?
We should never get too high or too low. Most young quarterbacks - Jones being one - have ups and downs. The vast majority of us love Eli ... but the vast majority of us realize he had his ups and downs throughout. He was a scrub some days. He was elite others.
Weeks which Jones and Giants dont play well: 67 posts/thread, 18 new threads with "Jones" in the subject line
Except they are not objective measures and many are tied to each other. For example, QB rating is impacted by Y/A and TD%. It also doesn't take into account garbage time versus plays when the outcome is more in doubt. It does not factor in braindead play calling. Who in their bright mind thinks a rollout with Evan Engram as your only target on that side is a good idea besides Jason Garrett?
Stats aren't objective measures? But your assumptive assertions about playcalling are? Look, at some point, Jones is going to have to start producing and producing with consistency. It's always something with you guys - his OL sucks, his WR's suck, his OC sucks. It's everyone's fault but his.
Top QB's get drafted onto bad teams, welcome to the NFL. Gardner Minshew - a 6th round pick, not the 6th pick in the draft - was on pace for a 4,500 yard, 32 TD, 10 INT season last year before getting hurt. And that was after an excellent rookie season. His best WR was some guy named Laviska Shenault Jr, who I'm sure you won't be telling your grandkids about. His OL sucked. He was still able to produce those "unobjective measures" called stats.
But maybe he just had a better OC.
What's your point?
Weeks which Jones and Giants dont play well: 67 posts/thread, 18 new threads with "Jones" in the subject line
This is awesome.
Actually PFF is high on Daniel Jones now, that is why he does not include their grade.
It’s none of the three. We can’t pass in the red zone because we can’t run in the red zone . Brady said that was a red zone key last night with Peyton and Eli.
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PFF
Actually PFF is high on Daniel Jones now, that is why he does not include their grade.
If you want to provide me their weekly rank of QBs I will gladly include it in my weekly update. I don't have that info, but I believe their overall rank of Jones is presently somewhere between 15 and 20.
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Except they are not objective measures and many are tied to each other. For example, QB rating is impacted by Y/A and TD%. It also doesn't take into account garbage time versus plays when the outcome is more in doubt. It does not factor in braindead play calling. Who in their bright mind thinks a rollout with Evan Engram as your only target on that side is a good idea besides Jason Garrett?
Stats aren't objective measures? But your assumptive assertions about playcalling are? Look, at some point, Jones is going to have to start producing and producing with consistency. It's always something with you guys - his OL sucks, his WR's suck, his OC sucks. It's everyone's fault but his.
Top QB's get drafted onto bad teams, welcome to the NFL. Gardner Minshew - a 6th round pick, not the 6th pick in the draft - was on pace for a 4,500 yard, 32 TD, 10 INT season last year before getting hurt. And that was after an excellent rookie season. His best WR was some guy named Laviska Shenault Jr, who I'm sure you won't be telling your grandkids about. His OL sucked. He was still able to produce those "unobjective measures" called stats.
But maybe he just had a better OC.
Section you lose yoru argument when you look at the talent the Jags had at WR and RB. DJ Chark had a big year, Robinson had a big year- does that mean he was better than Barkley as a RB?, Shenault was there.. The Jags sucked as a team but they had weapons. Stop the bullshit- yes stats sometimes are meaning less by themselves and no QB elevates the 6th or 7th line combo, pls elevate the RB position, plus elevate the WR's who are down their top 3 and sometimes 4 guys- all at the same time.
You are asking a QB to essentially elevate every position on the Offense, at the same time... Come on, be realistic. I am fine with doubts about Jones but you can't bash the guy when he does his part..
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Except they are not objective measures and many are tied to each other. For example, QB rating is impacted by Y/A and TD%. It also doesn't take into account garbage time versus plays when the outcome is more in doubt. It does not factor in braindead play calling. Who in their bright mind thinks a rollout with Evan Engram as your only target on that side is a good idea besides Jason Garrett?
Stats aren't objective measures? But your assumptive assertions about playcalling are? Look, at some point, Jones is going to have to start producing and producing with consistency. It's always something with you guys - his OL sucks, his WR's suck, his OC sucks. It's everyone's fault but his.
Top QB's get drafted onto bad teams, welcome to the NFL. Gardner Minshew - a 6th round pick, not the 6th pick in the draft - was on pace for a 4,500 yard, 32 TD, 10 INT season last year before getting hurt. And that was after an excellent rookie season. His best WR was some guy named Laviska Shenault Jr, who I'm sure you won't be telling your grandkids about. His OL sucked. He was still able to produce those "unobjective measures" called stats.
But maybe he just had a better OC.
He was also traded for a 6th to philly who made him a third stringer and not even active on their roster. So much for the “well someone would have made him a starter by now argument “. It depends sometimes on who the bozos are picking the starters
Weeks which Jones and Giants dont play well: 67 posts/thread, 18 new threads with "Jones" in the subject line
Bingo
Barkley first rusty as hell, then gets injured again almost the exact moment he returns to credible form. So it's musical chairs at RB too.
And - oh yeah: the OLine is the usual mess again.
And - oh yeah: he's playing in a scheme getting ripped from every corner of the NFL, Giants people or not.
BUT BE A TOP 10 QB JONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's getting to the point where you just don't understand football. Everything around Jones has been dysfunctional again this year, and the results won't be good. And they aren't. Jones has actually played well given the circumstances and a lot of smart QB analysts see that.
At what point in life did you come to the conclusion that banal discussion of a public figure or athlete was a threat directed at them personally? It would seem you are having trouble making distinctions between conversation and threats. When you direct hostile epithets my way you are engaging in the anti-social practice of threatening someone.
If these distinctions are hard for you, I would be happy to recommend a therapist or psychiatrist to help you sort things out.
"Daniel Jones: 23/33 – 203 yards / 1 TD / 0 INT / 95.9 RAT
Jones also added 28 yards on 8 carries and caught a pass for 16 yards. So, 247 total yards with a score. Jones responded very well coming off last week’s debacle against the Rams. This is now the 5th game out of 7 (including vs DAL where he only played a half) where Jones finished with a QB rating over 90. He protected the ball, went through his reads well, and made some tough plays with his legs. Jones was without 3 of his top 4 receivers, his top running back, and multiple starting offensive linemen. Only Dante Pettis was getting plus-separation all afternoon, yet he still completed nearly 70% of his passes. Really solid effort full of good decisions in a tough situation."
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Except they are not objective measures and many are tied to each other. For example, QB rating is impacted by Y/A and TD%. It also doesn't take into account garbage time versus plays when the outcome is more in doubt. It does not factor in braindead play calling. Who in their bright mind thinks a rollout with Evan Engram as your only target on that side is a good idea besides Jason Garrett?
Stats aren't objective measures? But your assumptive assertions about playcalling are? Look, at some point, Jones is going to have to start producing and producing with consistency. It's always something with you guys - his OL sucks, his WR's suck, his OC sucks. It's everyone's fault but his.
Top QB's get drafted onto bad teams, welcome to the NFL. Gardner Minshew - a 6th round pick, not the 6th pick in the draft - was on pace for a 4,500 yard, 32 TD, 10 INT season last year before getting hurt. And that was after an excellent rookie season. His best WR was some guy named Laviska Shenault Jr, who I'm sure you won't be telling your grandkids about. His OL sucked. He was still able to produce those "unobjective measures" called stats.
But maybe he just had a better OC.
LOL maybe it is everyone elses fault...is that so difficult to grasp? Shanault and Chark would easily be our 2 best WRs this week. Other than Galloday(possibly Toney?) they would be the best WRs on this team. Don't forget that Minshew had Fournette and Robinson as his RBs...both consistently better that what we've shoved out there in our backfield. Our TE's are probably equally as shit.
Stats aren't objective measures? But your assumptive assertions about playcalling are? Look, at some point, Jones is going to have to start producing and producing with consistency. It's always something with you guys - his OL sucks, his WR's suck, his OC sucks. It's everyone's fault but his.
Top QB's get drafted onto bad teams, welcome to the NFL. Gardner Minshew - a 6th round pick, not the 6th pick in the draft - was on pace for a 4,500 yard, 32 TD, 10 INT season last year before getting hurt. And that was after an excellent rookie season. His best WR was some guy named Laviska Shenault Jr, who I'm sure you won't be telling your grandkids about. His OL sucked. He was still able to produce those "unobjective measures" called stats.
But maybe he just had a better OC.
Go look at Brady's stats in 2019 with little skill position talent and an average OL vs 2020 and 2021 with top skill position guys and OL and tell me it doesn't matter...
Barkley first rusty as hell, then gets injured again almost the exact moment he returns to credible form. So it's musical chairs at RB too.
And - oh yeah: the OLine is the usual mess again.
And - oh yeah: he's playing in a scheme getting ripped from every corner of the NFL, Giants people or not.
BUT BE A TOP 10 QB JONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's getting to the point where you just don't understand football. Everything around Jones has been dysfunctional again this year, and the results won't be good. And they aren't. Jones has actually played well given the circumstances and a lot of smart QB analysts see that.
It seems there is always an excuse. Excuses for Eli's poor play his final two years. And now excuses every year for Jones. Other QBs overcome problems, the great ones put up numbers. Jones is not the only QB to face a myriad of problems.
I'm not acting in any particular manner. the numbers speak for themselves. If he improves dramatically, as many of you promise, I will keep posting. I think it is telling that a simple list of stats draws such hostility. Is that a normal reaction on a football message board over a discussion of the stats of the starting QB? Why can't we discuss his performance metrics without attacking the OP.
I don't call anybody a moron, in life. I don't threaten people, online or IRL. I don't tell lies and distortions about people's actions or positions. It's weird that people here feel it is ok, and others cheer it on. Many here are acting like self-righteous bullies. That's what is fascinating. And you also seem ok with it.
In all honestly if the Giants had Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, Toney, Thomas, Lemieux, and Gates... How much better do you think he would have done than 70% completion over 200 yards 1 TD and no turnovers while also rushing and catching a pass?
Again if you can't see it then hey you can't see it.
Just for shits and giggles I looked it up:
60% comp %
4/7 td-int
4 fumbles (2 lost)
66.47 passer rating
And that was with Kelce and T Hill possibly the 2 most dynamic guys at their position in the whole league and also helped greatly by the WFTgame and their bottom 4 defense in the league.
See what happens when you try and make plays with 1000 lbs of angry defensive lineman on top of you every play?
In all honestly if the Giants had Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, Toney, Thomas, Lemieux, and Gates... How much better do you think he would have done than 70% completion over 200 yards 1 TD and no turnovers while also rushing and catching a pass?
Again if you can't see it then hey you can't see it.
Hard work has nothing to do with it. A lot of guys who play QB work hard. It's about talent and ability. And Daniel Jones has shown through 2 and a half seasons that he cannot perform with the best at the position. maybe he will get better, but likely he will not.
Don't you want the NY Giants to have the best QB possible, and not just some jag that Gettleman had a goofy feeling about?
You sound so stupid throwing out these numgwrs with no context. It’s really sad you keep fighting this fight along with go terps and say this doesn’t matter. That doesn’t matter. Good qbs overcome this. THEY DO NOT
Brady looked done with the pats. People said it’s over. Somehow he goes to the Bucs and wins a fucking ring. Why? He has a great line and great skill guys.
Mahomes line falls apart and somehow he’s back to being normal. They have 1 more win than the giants. Context matters. This is not baseball where it’s you vs the pitcher and you can point to batting average and slugging percentage.
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If you don't see a fiery hard working guy that is a leader then you can't see it. If you don't see a QB that worked to fix his biggest issue then you can't see it. If you don't see a guy fighting to win games then you can't see it. If you can't see a guy playing without his top 3 WRs, Starting RB, with a back up LT, Backup backup LG, backup Center, Backup RT that is out there laying it out for a one handed catch then you can't see it.
In all honestly if the Giants had Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, Toney, Thomas, Lemieux, and Gates... How much better do you think he would have done than 70% completion over 200 yards 1 TD and no turnovers while also rushing and catching a pass?
Again if you can't see it then hey you can't see it.
Hard work has nothing to do with it. A lot of guys who play QB work hard. It's about talent and ability. And Daniel Jones has shown through 2 and a half seasons that he cannot perform with the best at the position. maybe he will get better, but likely he will not.
Don't you want the NY Giants to have the best QB possible, and not just some jag that Gettleman had a goofy feeling about?
As I stated... YOU can't see it. I noticed you didn't answer my question. So the new question is ... do you just want to be right and blind? Because right now your are wrong and blind.
Jones is hampered by a very conservative play caller and an Oline that was not enabling a running game or giving Jones much time to sit in the pocket
The team seems to have caught fire in Carolina- nothing could be finer
Lets see if this is the start of something, the season isnt even half over
Eric, are you ordering me not to post Jones' weekly ranks? If you say so, I will refrain from doing it. You are in charge.
In my defense I have rarely started any threads on Jones, I think just two since the season started, and I have started many NFT threads and survivor pool threads. Just because people here accuse me of obsessively starting Jones threads doesn't make it true.
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One-trick ponies usually quickly wear out their welcome on BBI.
Eric, are you ordering me not to post Jones' weekly ranks? If you say so, I will refrain from doing it. You are in charge.
In my defense I have rarely started any threads on Jones, I think just two since the season started, and I have started many NFT threads and survivor pool threads. Just because people here accuse me of obsessively starting Jones threads doesn't make it true.
The only thing I ever see you post is how much Daniel Jones sucks, even when he plays well.
You either have an unhealthy obsession with Jones being the anti-Christ or you're trolling.
My point to you is people are quickly tuning you out.
Go look at Brady's stats in 2019 with little skill position talent and an average OL vs 2020 and 2021 with top skill position guys and OL and tell me it doesn't matter...
You're not helping yourself by bringing up Brady in a Daniel Jones discussion. I already made an apt comparison, or are you going to argue that the 1-15 Jaguars had a better supporting cast?
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In comment 15429970 Amtoft said:
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If you don't see a fiery hard working guy that is a leader then you can't see it. If you don't see a QB that worked to fix his biggest issue then you can't see it. If you don't see a guy fighting to win games then you can't see it. If you can't see a guy playing without his top 3 WRs, Starting RB, with a back up LT, Backup backup LG, backup Center, Backup RT that is out there laying it out for a one handed catch then you can't see it.
In all honestly if the Giants had Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, Toney, Thomas, Lemieux, and Gates... How much better do you think he would have done than 70% completion over 200 yards 1 TD and no turnovers while also rushing and catching a pass?
Again if you can't see it then hey you can't see it.
Hard work has nothing to do with it. A lot of guys who play QB work hard. It's about talent and ability. And Daniel Jones has shown through 2 and a half seasons that he cannot perform with the best at the position. maybe he will get better, but likely he will not.
Don't you want the NY Giants to have the best QB possible, and not just some jag that Gettleman had a goofy feeling about?
As I stated... YOU can't see it. I noticed you didn't answer my question. So the new question is ... do you just want to be right and blind? Because right now your are wrong and blind.
I think my intention is fairly obvious. I want the Giants to have a great QB. Right now I don't think that's Jones and the numbers back up that position. I would love it if Jones became Burrow, or Herbert, or Mahomes, or Brady.
Also stats can be misleading and cannot be viewed in a vacuum.
Prior to last week Jones has had only (7) pass plays within the 10 yard zone and only one in the endzone.
Jones has had only (22) passes within 20 yards.
The lack of opportunity is related to poor play calling not Jones ability.
Better stats are those that dig deeper and address opportunity, likely to be successful plays, etc.
Those include Pro Football Reference NFL advanced QB stats ,
Pro Football Focus advanced metrics,