Yesterday, during numerous discussions it was said the "question was settled" and Jones is the answer, and Daniel Jones is "near elite".
For everybody's reference here are Daniel Jones pass rankings after 7 Weeks:
Y/A: 21st (last week: 18)
QBR: 22nd (lw: 22)
QB Rating 26th (lw: 26)
TD% 32nd (lw: 32)
sack% 16th (lw: 13)
Red Zone Passing
Cmp% Inside 20: 34% worst among starting QBs (lw: 27%)
Cmp% Inside 10: 30% 29th among starting QBs (lw: 14%)
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
They take into consideration context and that is important
However, regardless of what the stats say, what does the eye test say
Great athlete (yes)
Can make all the throws (yes)
Top long ball passer (yes)
Great runner (yes)
Tough and courageous (yes)
Smart (yes)
Hard worker (yes)
Does he show improvement in areas of weakness (yes)
A leader (yes)
Is he getting better (yes)
Gets touchdowns when in redzone
They take into consideration context and that is important
However, regardless of what the stats say, what does the eye test say
Great athlete (yes)
Can make all the throws (yes)
Top long ball passer (yes)
Great runner (yes)
Tough and courageous (yes)
Smart (yes)
Hard worker (yes)
Does he show improvement in areas of weakness (yes)
A leader (yes)
Is he getting better (yes)
I like PFF in general, but their QB stats are open to a lot of question. Their top-10 lists seem random and littered with lesser talents.
Jones cannot make all the throws. He is not a great deep ball passer (as I have said that stat is based on a tiny sample size), and he does not have a great arm. He may be smart but he seems to lack crucial football smarts and instincts. He lacks poise in the pocket. he makes too many mistakes. He is slow to read the field. he suffers from short to intermediate accuracy issues, he locks onto his first read and bird dogs receivers, etc
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
It had nothing to do with Jones
Bye the way do you realize that after Gates went down Jones had to make the line calls
This also forced the Giants to modify their play calling
It is sad the the offense was not built to maximize Jones strengths
It is only recently that the play book includes RPO, role outs, and short passes in lieu of runs
What would Lamar look like in a traditional offense ? The scheme makes all the difference
It had nothing to do with Jones
Bye the way do you realize that after Gates went down Jones had to make the line calls
This also forced the Giants to modify their play calling
It is sad the the offense was not built to maximize Jones strengths
It is only recently that the play book includes RPO, role outs, and short passes in lieu of runs
What would Lamar look like in a traditional offense ? The scheme makes all the difference
Maybe. Perhaps they should run a variation of the ravens offense. But Jones is not as talented at RPOs and read options as Lamar. Not close. Would it work as a strategy? I'd be open to finding out.
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post the below average stats of a below average Giants player on a Giants message board. Appalling behavior.
seriously. I'm a moron, idiot, douchnozzle troll who got reprimanded by the owner of the board for dispassionately posting the Giants' QB stats on a Giants message board.
You are a troll because you basically say the stats don't lie your eyes do and then say the stats lie because it is a small sample size and my eyes see different. You do this while compare him to QBs (some the best to ever play) that are on teams loaded with insane talent against the crap we have had to send out each week and your eyes can't seem to see that. I mean douchnozzle was uncalled for as I don't think you have been rude, but well either a troll , obtuse, or sorry to say an idiot all seem to fit nicely.
I could understand if Jones made inaccurate throws or threw interceptions which caused the drive to fail, but that is not the case, the drives fail because the Giants cannot run the ball, yet they persist in running.
Conversely Jones is 100% in two point conversions. This is due to the fact that the Giants always run 0 protection and spread out the offense. Why don't they do this in regular redzone attempts?
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The PFF stats are more reliable than the ordinary stats
They take into consideration context and that is important
However, regardless of what the stats say, what does the eye test say
Great athlete (yes)
Can make all the throws (yes)
Top long ball passer (yes)
Great runner (yes)
Tough and courageous (yes)
Smart (yes)
Hard worker (yes)
Does he show improvement in areas of weakness (yes)
A leader (yes)
Is he getting better (yes)
Gets touchdowns when in redzone
Jones can't make throws on the move. If he is flushed out of the pocket he can't make throws. So NO, Jones can't make all the throws.
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In comment 15430129 Jerry in_DC said:
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post the below average stats of a below average Giants player on a Giants message board. Appalling behavior.
seriously. I'm a moron, idiot, douchnozzle troll who got reprimanded by the owner of the board for dispassionately posting the Giants' QB stats on a Giants message board.
You are a troll because you basically say the stats don't lie your eyes do and then say the stats lie because it is a small sample size and my eyes see different. You do this while compare him to QBs (some the best to ever play) that are on teams loaded with insane talent against the crap we have had to send out each week and your eyes can't seem to see that. I mean douchnozzle was uncalled for as I don't think you have been rude, but well either a troll , obtuse, or sorry to say an idiot all seem to fit nicely.
If you have to go only to exotic stats to make your case, then I think you don't have a case. All the great QBs put up great stats, even in less than perfect conditions. We're in year 3. Let's face it, if Jones has trouble, the context excuse will always come to his defense. You will never be ready to let go. It's easier to call me a troll than to face hard truths about your assumptions.
I could understand if Jones made inaccurate throws or threw interceptions which caused the drive to fail, but that is not the case, the drives fail because the Giants cannot run the ball, yet they persist in running.
Conversely Jones is 100% in two point conversions. This is due to the fact that the Giants always run 0 protection and spread out the offense. Why don't they do this in regular redzone attempts?
But Jones *is* inaccurate. And there is no accounting for poor choices he is making on the field, throws he doesn't attempt, because he doesn't *see* it just can't make that throw that Stafford or Herbert can make. He's not a playmaker with his arm. the stats, or lack of them, clearly show that. he is a see it, throw it QB, who locks onto targets, and checks down all too frequently.
What are you basing this on
There are no statistics to support this claim
Quite the contrary Jones is 1-2 in deep passes, 1-2 on contested passes into tight windows, he throws a great pass that is very accurate and tight.
A criticism could be made that he throws the ball too hard and does not put enough air under his throws.
His arm is significantly better than Eli's and that is not a knock on Eli
What are you basing this on
There are no statistics to support this claim
Quite the contrary Jones is 1-2 in deep passes, 1-2 on contested passes into tight windows, he throws a great pass that is very accurate and tight.
A criticism could be made that he throws the ball too hard and does not put enough air under his throws.
His arm is significantly better than Eli's and that is not a knock on Eli
Look, as I said above to someone else, if you are going to insist that Jones is a great deep ball passer based on the one PFF stat regarding his deep ball accuracy then you have to accept the short and intermediate accuracy number *from the same data set* derived from a *much larger sample size* and therefore *more reliable* that says Jones was the worst QB in the league in short and intermediate accuracy, which is simply and plainly fatal to his prospects as a starting QB in the NFL. Are you willing to accept that number as well, or do you have a reason why we should accept the number you like and not the number you don't like.
3 TD's per game will make him compete for records of most passing TD's in a season. I don't want a Jameis Winston throwing 50 TD's and 30 INT's while losing games. If you want to look at QB's, I would say scoring percentage in red zone matters more than passing TD's. We are struggling in that area and not sure if it is Jones or Garrett or some combination of both for that.
Speaking of Jameis Winston, I have to imagine that Bucs fans were engaging in the same sort of debates about him during his first few seasons as we've had about Jones. If so, what side of that debate seems to be winning the argument so far?
Herbert and Stafford have great supporting casts
They have the time and the players that allow them to make plays
If they were harassed as Jones is they could not consistently make these plays
Based upon your evaluations Stafford would have been a failure while at Detroit.
He is only now able to reach his potential
You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.
Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.
DO you not realize how obsessive that is?
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Herbert and Stafford have great supporting casts
They have the time and the players that allow them to make plays
If they were harassed as Jones is they could not consistently make these plays
Based upon your evaluations Stafford would have been a failure while at Detroit.
He is only now able to reach his potential
I suggest you listen to Greg Cosell who has raved about Stafford's isolated arm talent for a decade, from the point he entered the league. When Jones entered the league he said of DJ, he has limited throwing ability and must be managed with defined reads to win in this league. See the difference? I'm not saying Stafford has great arm talent because he has great stats or a great supporting cast. I'm saying Stafford has great arm talent because he can literally throw the ball further than DJ and make more difficult throws. he makes difficult throws that Jones can't even attempt. This is obvious , by the way to most observers. Stafford has a better arm than Jones every which way. If you cannot admit it, I don't know where we go from here. I suggest you look up youtube videos of Stafford throws. He's a different animal. Herbert too. That famous throw Herbert made against Dallas. Jones won't even try that. Jones is a tier or two below those guys in arm talent, right? If w3e can't agree on something so obvious what's the point of continuing.
You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.
Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.
DO you not realize how obsessive that is?
Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
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Has become laughable.
You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.
Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.
DO you not realize how obsessive that is?
Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.
Furthermore, questioning the sample size and integrity of a stat is certainly a fair rebuttal. You are smart enough to know this.
Is there any empirical data or is this just your observations
If it is your observations than I can't accept this as a fact
To my eye Jones can and has made every throw
He throws a great deep ball with accuracy and velocity
He can throw on the run and across his body
He does not make off platform throws but that is more related to how he was trained
To put into context I was a high school QB and played FB/H Back on offense and monster back on defense at Tulane U..
I was always a frustrated QB at heart and was disappointed that I was not good enough to play QB collegiately
My evaluations and opinions of Jones are no better than any others but they do come with some level of training
Jones is not flashy and does not make many highlight plays but that does not diminish his ability to pass the ball
Is there any empirical data or is this just your observations
If it is your observations than I can't accept this as a fact
To my eye Jones can and has made every throw
He throws a great deep ball with accuracy and velocity
He can throw on the run and across his body
He does not make off platform throws but that is more related to how he was trained
To put into context I was a high school QB and played FB/H Back on offense and monster back on defense at Tulane U..
I was always a frustrated QB at heart and was disappointed that I was not good enough to play QB collegiately
My evaluations and opinions of Jones are no better than any others but they do come with some level of training
Jones is not flashy and does not make many highlight plays but that does not diminish his ability to pass the ball
Here is a throw that Daniel Jones can't make. Period.
Justin Herbert INSANE Throw to Keenan Allen | Cowboys vs. Chargers - ( New Window )
He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.
Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws
Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6
Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?
This was opinions from people who had never seen him play
These ideas have followed him regardless of what he does
Bye the Cosell has been extremely complimentary about Jones and even mentions his arm strength
I am looking for the video so that I can share
Jones was thought to run a 4.8 forty, what would they have thought if he ran a 4.5 forty ?
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I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones.
He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.
Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws
Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6
Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?
Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility.
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I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones.
He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.
Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws
Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6
Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?
He has not.
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In comment 15430176 Producer said:
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!
I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.
Good day sir.
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In comment 15430265 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430176 Producer said:
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!
I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.
Good day sir.
Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.
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In comment 15430236 Producer said:
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I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones.
He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.
Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws
Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6
Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?
Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility.
Y/A includes things like YAC and doesn't include things like drops. A better stat to look at if anything would be Y/C which is yards per completion but still includes things like YAC which I showed you above Herbert was benefitting from compared to DJ. Herbert YAC or yards per completed pass is 11 compared to DJ 11.3. Really if you want to be real you take Herberts yard per completion and take out his YAC compared to DJs and the numbers get even worse for him when it comes to deeper passing per completion. Yes strong arm is better, no not as accurate deep down the field. Hope that helps you finally.
[quote] In comment 15430150 Archer said:
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The PFF stats are more reliable than the ordinary stats
They take into consideration context and that is important
However, regardless of what the stats say, what does the eye test say
Great athlete (yes)
Can make all the throws (yes)
Top long ball passer (yes)
Great runner (yes)
Tough and courageous (yes)
Smart (yes)
Hard worker (yes)
Does he show improvement in areas of weakness (yes)
A leader (yes)
Is he getting better (yes)
I like PFF in general, but their QB stats are open to a lot of question. Their top-10 lists seem random and littered with lesser talents.
Jones cannot make all the throws. He is not a great deep ball passer (as I have said that stat is based on a tiny sample size), and he does not have a great arm. He may be smart but he seems to lack crucial football smarts and instincts. He lacks poise in the pocket. he makes too many mistakes. He is slow to read the field. he suffers from short to intermediate accuracy issues, he locks onto his first read and bird dogs receivers, etc [/quote
This is your opinion. Are you a QB coach or a scout? I see QBs every week make mistakes.
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In comment 15430277 Producer said:
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In comment 15430265 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430176 Producer said:
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!
I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.
Good day sir.
Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.
Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn.
Herbert is throwing to Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Cooks at TE, Ekeler the best receiving back in the game, with Ekeler running the ball at RB, and a better OL not to mention better play caller.
Last year, Herbert had one of the worst pass protecting OLs in the NFL. Yet, his QBR was the best in the NFL when he was under pressure. How do you account for that?
Furthermore, who is this "better play caller"? Lombardi? This is Herbert's second year and he's on his second OC. His OC in 2020 was Shane Steichen, who is now in Philly. And this is ostensibly Lomardi's first full time OC gig.
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In comment 15430317 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430277 Producer said:
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In comment 15430265 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430176 Producer said:
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!
I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.
Good day sir.
Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.
Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn.
Jones doesn't process the whole field anyway, and he chokes under pressure. They need to mitigate his mistakes by having him roll out and making reads easier for him, get it? He's not Brady back there in case you haven't noticed. Try not to be so obnoxious next time.
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In comment 15430298 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430236 Producer said:
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I don't believe you look at Herbert, Stafford, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, etc and can't see they have significantly better arm talent than Jones.
He does not have a weak arm for an NFL QB. Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen have the strongest arms in the entire league. If that is your reference Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson who you now want to throw in also, Dak Prescott, and Lamar Jackson suck because they have weaker arms than Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. Just FYI since you don't seem to get it. A strong arm is not the most important thing on a deep throw.
Let's look at Justin Herbert who you bring up a lot who has Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and really look at his deep ball throws
Justin Herbert Intended air yards per passing attempt 7.4 Daniel Jones 8.4
Justin Herbert Completed air yards per pass completion 5.6 Daniel Jones 6.7
Justin Herbert yards after catch per completion 5.4 Daniel Jones 4.6
Maybe your eyes can only see speed of balls and not accuracy?
Is there a reason you are going to air yards and not Y/A? Every normal metric Herbert best's Jones. There is no serious QB analyst that puts Jones in the same category as Herbert. You are losing credibility.
Y/A includes things like YAC and doesn't include things like drops. A better stat to look at if anything would be Y/C which is yards per completion but still includes things like YAC which I showed you above Herbert was benefitting from compared to DJ. Herbert YAC or yards per completed pass is 11 compared to DJ 11.3. Really if you want to be real you take Herberts yard per completion and take out his YAC compared to DJs and the numbers get even worse for him when it comes to deeper passing per completion. Yes strong arm is better, no not as accurate deep down the field. Hope that helps you finally.
So your argument is that Jones is better than Herbert and more accurate, even though Herbert's accuracy stats are better. Nice try but who's the one cherry-picking stats. I suggest you go on twitter and insist Daniel jones is better than Justin Herbert. He's not, and you can't find a single credible QB analyst who would agree with you. You should find spots of Cosell discussing Herbert. I'm paraphrasing but he said Herbert is just a different cat from everybody else. He's bigger than Josh Allen, stronger than everyone and the ball comes out like no other. Did you look at that throw I posted above. Jones doesn't even attempt that throw, if he even sees it.
Watch what he did in his rookie year
Forget the turnovers just watch what he does in a passing offense
Garrett is destroying Jones
Look at the redzone plays they do not exist in this offense
Link - ( New Window )
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Herbert is throwing to Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Cooks at TE, Ekeler the best receiving back in the game, with Ekeler running the ball at RB, and a better OL not to mention better play caller.
Last year, Herbert had one of the worst pass protecting OLs in the NFL. Yet, his QBR was the best in the NFL when he was under pressure. How do you account for that?
Furthermore, who is this "better play caller"? Lombardi? This is Herbert's second year and he's on his second OC. His OC in 2020 was Shane Steichen, who is now in Philly. And this is ostensibly Lomardi's first full time OC gig.
Herbert last year was not behind Nate Solder, Skur, Price, Hernandez, and Peart. His line sucked, but come on. That is the worst starting OL I have ever seen. He also had Keenan Allen who is open like every play to get right of the ball quickly. That helps I think we can all agree when there is a heavy pass rush. I will also throw in the QBR is a subjective rating. It will for the most part mirror a winning team. Of course a fair point can be made they are a winning team because of the play of the QB.
Saying that... Your question was why was his QBR was so good when under pressure... He is a good freaking QB with great weapons. No one is saying Herbert isn't a good QB he is great. He has the potential to be Elite really and I would even say he is clearly moving that way.
As for your second question. Yes I believe both those OC are better than Garrett at play calling, well let me correct that. I think Garrett with the right talent can make his system work and when he lacks talent at the skill position like last year or this year with injuries he tries to over correct with more gadgety type plays to try and make up for deficiency. This has worked between the hashes, however has hurt his play calling in the redzone. He has made some of the not only most puzzling, but worst play calling I have ever seen inside the 5 yard especially. I do not believe the other two would be making the same type of bad calls compared to what he has shown.
Watch what he did in his rookie year
Forget the turnovers just watch what he does in a passing offense
Garrett is destroying Jones
Look at the redzone plays they do not exist in this offense Link - ( New Window )
a bit swamped with work but i will check later.
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In comment 15430324 Producer said:
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In comment 15430317 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430277 Producer said:
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In comment 15430265 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15430176 Producer said:
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In comment 15430158 compton said:
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In comment 15429924 mittenedman said:
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All with the worst OLine and skill players in the NFL.
What's your point?
Based on this lone stat "sack% 16th (lw: 13)" would suggest that he is playing behind an average line that is far from the worst. I would like to see a stat on pressures to form a definitive opinion about the line play.
I think this might be what you are looking for. Hit the "PRESSURE" tab.
pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm
Again you don't seem to maybe watch the games. You seem to be living in advanced passing stats like that is the tell all. He is the second most blitz QB, but he is only pressured 20.2% which can say see look at the stats his pressure % is less than other QBs. However when you watch the games you also way more plays designed for roll outs to avoid the pressure of our crappy line. How many design roll outs do you see Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow do a game compared to Daniel Jones? In fact you hardly ever see them do that because it is harder to play QB that way rather than sit in a pocket, setting your feet, and find the open man.
Same link you can look at things like Bad throws, Bad throws percentage, On target throws, and on target throw percentage. Two of the highest in bad throws, btpercentage, on target throws, on target percentages are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. If I wanted to I could come on here and say look at these stats. Brady and Rodgers aren't any good because they make more bad throws and are less accurate according to these stats. I mean you can find any stats to help or hurt your argument.
What makes you are troll is you use stats to try and help yourself and then your eyes if the stats don't back up the stats. You say things like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson have dropped passes all while Aaron Rodgers has a 1.4% dropped pass statistic the absolute best by far of all QBs and Lamar Jackson has 4.6% right around middle maybe slightly worse while Daniel Jones is at 6.9% dropped passes second only to Sam Darnold.
You see if your eyes can't see Aaron Rodgers dumping off a 7 yard pass to Davante Adams who then beats everyone for a 20+ yard score giving Aaron Rodgers a TD on his stats, but you can't see say Rudolph stepping out by an inch taking away a TD from Daniel Jones then I can't help you. You see Brown drop 3 TDs from Lamar Jackson, but you can't see Darius Slayton dropping a 50+ yard TD. You can't see things. Which goes back to my original post... you can't see it.
"he blind stares of a million pairs of eyes Looking hard, but won't realize That they will never see"
Rodgers struggled with dropped passes plenty over the last several years. After Adams he had MVS, Lazard, etc who wouldn't even crack the Giants last season. All bums.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder, it makes it easier which is why it is a staple for rookies and young players. It divides the field in half for the QB and helps define the read.
Anyway, won't continue engaging with someone who calls me a troll. This isn't equal footing. If you can't couch your arguments in a collegial manner why should I bother engaging.
Rodgers has never had a drop rate close to 6.9%... it isn't a thing. His worst year was 5.4% which is 1.5% less which is a over 21% better that what Daniel Jones is dealing with as a 3rd year player.
Rolling out doesn't make passing harder? Cutting off half the field doesn't make passing harder? Throwing on the run rather than sitting in the pocket isn't harder? Are you being serious right now? Why don't all QB roll out every play... Hey it is easier!
I think you are right... stop responding to me and in fact to everyone because you are being dumber and dumber the more this conversion goes on.
Good day sir.
Rolling out effectively cuts the field in half and reduces the amount of field the QB has to process, and lowers the number of reads a QB has to consider. It makes the decision making easier, which is why it is a staple for young QBs. Football 101.
Ok let's try this one more time. We are rolling Jones out more and more as this line falls even more apart right? Can you follow this. We are not roll out so much to make decisions easier for him... still with me? Doing that limits half the field... are you still with me? In doing that it limits what DJ can make happen... Do you understand why? Half the field, smaller targets windows, less open receiver options, less chances for big plays, less opportunities to go deep, etc... This is football 201 next level when you aren't rolling out because of being a rookie but instead because they can't protect you. So maybe further out for you, however let me explain it. When Thomas was is in the game we don't roll out nearly as much because you don't need to do that to avoid pressure from the blindside limiting your QB to only have the field, with smaller windows, less chance for a big play, and you have the whole field to make plays happen. The game isn't easier ... getting a short completion may be easier but the game is not easier. Do you get it now or you just going to keep being stubborn.
Jones doesn't process the whole field anyway, and he chokes under pressure. They need to mitigate his mistakes by having him roll out and making reads easier for him, get it? He's not Brady back there in case you haven't noticed. Try not to be so obnoxious next time.
Except you are wrong. He didn't roll out hardly at all in Washington game and brought them back under pressure in a game we should have won. He brought them back and won the New Orleans game under huge pressure. He sat in the pocket with time and made play after play to lead us back to win the game. The difference... Barkley, Golladay, Toney, Thomas. Really I say Thomas is our hugest loss. It is forcing all these roll outs and quick plays because we can't protect him. If you want to look at stats. Go look at Daniel Jones stats when he has even a little time and he can sit in the pocket and YES read the whole field... He is a pretty damn good. It is what give me hope that he is going to continue to grow into a really good QB because he is very accurate and does throw a very nice deep back.
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Has become laughable.
You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.
Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.
DO you not realize how obsessive that is?
Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.
LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself
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In comment 15430258 montanagiant said:
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Has become laughable.
You base your whole argument on stats and then when Amtoft uses stats in his counterargument they all of sudden aren't legit.
Here are some stats for you:
Eight(8) out of your fifteen(15) most recent threads on your profile deal with you running around trying to slam Jones. Out of the remaining seven(7) threads, two(2) are game threads where we know you slammed him also, three(3) are NFTs, and one(1) is regarding Survivor Pools.
DO you not realize how obsessive that is?
Try to stick to the topic. I started exactly three threads about Jones since the start of the season.
LOL...Well, that's an example of a cherry-picked stat. The mere fact you even know how many "you started" while completely ignoring the fact that the only football topics you post on are about Jones is pretty telling in its ownself
Is there anyone else that has started 3 separate Daniel Jones threads since the season started? I mean Producer has to be among the league leaders.
Sorry, but you can't get away from that. I'm not saying it won't change, but until DJ starts throwing touchdown passes, I can't really endorse him for next season.
Sorry, but you can't get away from that. I'm not saying it won't change, but until DJ starts throwing touchdown passes, I can't really endorse him for next season.
But he might beat his total of 11 from last year!!
It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense
Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field
But what is most apparent is his redzone success
It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone
They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc.
Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone
You cannot throw TDs without opportunity
Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes
It reminds people what Jones did as a rookie in a passing friendly offense
Jones is throwing TD passes from all over the field
But what is most apparent is his redzone success
It is the play calling, the Giants used a spread offense and threw the ball in the redzone
They threw the ball into the endzone, they threw fades, corners, posts, outs, screens, etc.
Jones has thrown the ball in the Redzone (20 yards and in) only 22 times almost all outside the endzone
You cannot throw TDs without opportunity
Garrett is the reason that Jones does not throw TD passes
yes. that 3rd and goal play Sunday was typical. 1 receiver in the play. everyone in the CAR 2ndary would have to blow coverage or trip to get TD pass there.