I know there are a number of folks who don't enjoy debating the economics, in the spirit of a productive convo if you fall in that group maybe politely not chime in? Thanks
This offseason Jones will be eligible for:
1) a contract extension
2) a fully guaranteed 5th year option for 2023 at $21.3M
Going into his 4th year Jones will cost the Giants ~8.3M against the 2022 cap, roughly half of that figure is the amortized potion of his signing bonus ($4.1M)
The balance of his cap charge is a fully guaranteed salary and fully guaranteed roster bonus, meaning if he's cut that will accelerate, and if he was traded it would be his new team's responsibility.
So this offseason the Giants can:
1) Exercise his 5th year option, retain his rights and his 2023 salary will be $21.3M fully guaranteed
2) Decline his 5th year option, but still have the rights to franchise tag him for 2023 at somewhere north of $25M
3) Decline his option and let him walk after the 2022 season
4) Extend Jones on a multi-year deal
5) Trade Jones and save ~4M
So two simple questions:
If Jones does blank by the end of the year -- I want the the Giants to pick one of the five options.
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In comment 15430393 cosmicj said:
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That’s the reality of the salary cap.
You have a strange idea of what good is. What would you consider, Simms, Collins and Eli?
Simms - pre-cap and no free agency
Collins - cheap reclamation project with an elite arm
Eli - elite ceiling with a SB win before the end of his rookie deal
Are they good/Great, etc. Cause I loved Simms and Eli and I do not think either was great.
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
It’s insane. I’m fine if people think Jones can be the guy but comments like Herbert only showing flashes while they’re also saying Jones carried the team Sunday and is a bonafide franchise QB and anyone who thinks otherwise should root for another makes it unbearable.
Herbert in two years is going to double Jones’ TD output from Jones first two, and probably triple it over the last two years. Yea his weapons are way better, but so is Herbert. Jones has light years to catch up to Herbert.
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
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In comment 15430519 ajr2456 said:
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
And who brought Jones into this, we were talking about good as an option for a position. You're so hyped up to shit on Jones you just can't resist can you.
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In comment 15430519 ajr2456 said:
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
You said he’s only shown flashes which is a lie. What he is that Jones isn’t is consistent. There’s a better chance that Herbert turns into a great QB than Jones, partially because he’s almost there in year 2. Jones is still trying to be good for 50% of the year.
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
It is because you people want to compare DJ to everyone and Herbert is one of the favorites. People say things like in virtually every single way... Ummm running the ball Jones is better. I mean the fact is Herbert wouldn't have as good of stats he has had on the Chargers if he was on the Giants roster during the same time. Just like Daniel Jones would be better on the same the same roster as Herbert.
In saying that, Herbert is amazing... No one is saying he isn't good. In fact I will say he is amazing going towards Elite. Daniel Jones isn't some bum though because Herbert is so good. Jones just came off of a rookie season with 24 passing TDs and what 4 rushing TDs in 14 games. He has had crap or unhealthy weapons his whole career while Herbert has studs. Herbert was never going to be drafted by us.
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In comment 15430542 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15430519 ajr2456 said:
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
You said he’s only shown flashes which is a lie. What he is that Jones isn’t is consistent. There’s a better chance that Herbert turns into a great QB than Jones, partially because he’s almost there in year 2. Jones is still trying to be good for 50% of the year.
Here comes another member of the Hebert family having an aneurism. What is with you guys really/
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In comment 15430570 Walker Gillette said:
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In comment 15430542 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15430519 ajr2456 said:
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
You said he’s only shown flashes which is a lie. What he is that Jones isn’t is consistent. There’s a better chance that Herbert turns into a great QB than Jones, partially because he’s almost there in year 2. Jones is still trying to be good for 50% of the year.
Here comes another member of the Hebert family having an aneurism. What is with you guys really/
Is this your only comeback because you know you’re wrong?
2. Fire and replace whomever has been scouting quarterbacks
3. Replace Garrett with an OC whose system belongs in 2021
4. Scout the hell out of the 2022 QB class
5. Be open to drafting a QB in 2022, but don't force it. At this stage I don't consider Corral in the top 10 to be forcing it.
6. If the QB prospect is there in the draft, great. If not, sign a journeyman FA placeholder until the prospect and opportunity line up.
7. Invest more premium assets in the offensive line.
Jones is not to blame for everything. The scheme and the OL stink too. But that doesn't mean Jones's issues will just disappear with a better scheme and OL.
Jones is going to leave the Giants and settle into a nice career as an NFL backup. When that happens and how many losses he adds to his resume is up to the Giants.
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In comment 15430577 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15430570 Walker Gillette said:
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In comment 15430542 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15430519 ajr2456 said:
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Only shown flashes? Herbert is in his way to being great. Had 4300-31-10 as a rookie. Over his last 4 games he’s averaging 279 yards, 3 tds and .3 INT. He’s in pace for 4700, 37 and 11 this year on a potential AFC contender.
If he’s only shown flashes then just dump Jones now cause he’s shown nothing.
It's amazing that Daniel Jones can play one average game and one above average game and people around here can't wait to tell you he's going to be an elite QB, but all Justin Herbert has done in 21 career starts is throw 45 TDs, run for another 6, while turning the ball over only 16 times and people find any reason to shit on him.
Justin Herbert is better than Jones in virtually every single way. His arm is better. His delivery is faster. His processing and anticipation is better.
He was better in high school. Better in college. And now better in the NFL, and it's insane to argue otherwise.
So it's shitting on him to say he's not great, what are you his Mom? Great is Aaron Rodgers or Brady. I know he's a qb on another team so many Giant fans worship him, but lets give great a break for a moment.
You said he’s only shown flashes which is a lie. What he is that Jones isn’t is consistent. There’s a better chance that Herbert turns into a great QB than Jones, partially because he’s almost there in year 2. Jones is still trying to be good for 50% of the year.
Here comes another member of the Hebert family having an aneurism. What is with you guys really/
Is this your only comeback because you know you’re wrong?
Wrong about what? That Hebert is great. Fine put him up there with Fouts, Young, Unitas, Brady, etc. He's great. This sis the problem, everyone rushing to say this guy sucks and this guy is friggin great. Hebert looks good and has shown some real flashes but I'm not ready to go by a jersey and jump the fuck all over people who won't say he's great. How the hell do you know he's great already. IF he retires tomorrow is he going into the lexicon of NFL great QBs, I think maybe you are wrong.
If he plays well in year 4 you sign him to an extension and everyone is happy. If he is still inconsistent from game to game you can try to trade him at the deadline or simply let him walk.
The bottom line is that you can't draw out the decision if you are in year 4 and still don't know what you have. At that point you don't have your franchise QB.
Jones doesn’t even have 21 good games in two and a half years, but your sold on him and it’s all the other players fault.
Herbert is not going to require a quantum leap in year 3 like Josh Allen. He is almost there in year 2.
Jones doesn’t even have 21 good games in two and a half years, but your sold on him and it’s all the other players fault.
I never even brought up Jones in this context, it was a discussion about working with Good players at a position. I'm really sorry I upset you so much I didn't think on a Giants site I would come up with someone so emotionally invested in the QB of the Chargers. And you know what I'm not 100% sold on Jones but I do like a lot of what I see and He's doing it with absolute garbage around him a lot of the time this year, but I guess you think Cullin Johnson, Solder, Price, Ross, etc are just fine.
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That’s just a flat out lie. He has 21 starts of very good football in one and half years.
Jones doesn’t even have 21 good games in two and a half years, but your sold on him and it’s all the other players fault.
I never even brought up Jones in this context, it was a discussion about working with Good players at a position. I'm really sorry I upset you so much I didn't think on a Giants site I would come up with someone so emotionally invested in the QB of the Chargers. And you know what I'm not 100% sold on Jones but I do like a lot of what I see and He's doing it with absolute garbage around him a lot of the time this year, but I guess you
think Cullin Johnson, Solder, Price, Ross, etc are just fine.
Your comment was in response to we shouldn’t hitch are wagon to Jones when there’s teams hitching their wagons to QBs like Herbert. Jones was relevant to your post as much as you try to back track.
I’m not emotionally invested in Herbert, just don’t fabricate another QBs play to try to make a point.
I'm with Sean. Turn it around and make the playoffs. That was my expectation coming into this season (which Jones shouldn't have gotten), and it remains my expectation.
Win 10 games. Make the playoffs. Score some God damned points.
Of course that's not going to happen. When they get to 2-7 or 3-8 or whatever, season's over as far as I'm concerned. What happens after that is irrelevant. We've seen that meaningless wins over week and injured opponents don't carry any momentum into the next season. It won't matter if Jones throws for 500 yards and 6 TDs against Washington week 17. Irrelevant.
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In comment 15430607 ajr2456 said:
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That’s just a flat out lie. He has 21 starts of very good football in one and half years.
Jones doesn’t even have 21 good games in two and a half years, but your sold on him and it’s all the other players fault.
I never even brought up Jones in this context, it was a discussion about working with Good players at a position. I'm really sorry I upset you so much I didn't think on a Giants site I would come up with someone so emotionally invested in the QB of the Chargers. And you know what I'm not 100% sold on Jones but I do like a lot of what I see and He's doing it with absolute garbage around him a lot of the time this year, but I guess you
think Cullin Johnson, Solder, Price, Ross, etc are just fine.
Your comment was in response to we shouldn’t hitch are wagon to Jones when there’s teams hitching their wagons to QBs like Herbert. Jones was relevant to your post as much as you try to back track.
I’m not emotionally invested in Herbert, just don’t fabricate another QBs play to try to make a point.
Fabricate because I said he was not a "GREAT" QB, wow and you're not emotionally invested. Well I've learned my lesson
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In comment 15430624 Walker Gillette said:
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In comment 15430607 ajr2456 said:
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That’s just a flat out lie. He has 21 starts of very good football in one and half years.
Jones doesn’t even have 21 good games in two and a half years, but your sold on him and it’s all the other players fault.
I never even brought up Jones in this context, it was a discussion about working with Good players at a position. I'm really sorry I upset you so much I didn't think on a Giants site I would come up with someone so emotionally invested in the QB of the Chargers. And you know what I'm not 100% sold on Jones but I do like a lot of what I see and He's doing it with absolute garbage around him a lot of the time this year, but I guess you
think Cullin Johnson, Solder, Price, Ross, etc are just fine.
Your comment was in response to we shouldn’t hitch are wagon to Jones when there’s teams hitching their wagons to QBs like Herbert. Jones was relevant to your post as much as you try to back track.
I’m not emotionally invested in Herbert, just don’t fabricate another QBs play to try to make a point.
Fabricate because I said he was not a "GREAT" QB, wow and you're not emotionally invested. Well I've learned my lesson
No you said he’s only shown flashes.
I'm with Sean. Turn it around and make the playoffs. That was my expectation coming into this season (which Jones shouldn't have gotten), and it remains my expectation.
Win 10 games. Make the playoffs. Score some God damned points.
Of course that's not going to happen. When they get to 2-7 or 3-8 or whatever, season's over as far as I'm concerned. What happens after that is irrelevant. We've seen that meaningless wins over week and injured opponents don't carry any momentum into the next season. It won't matter if Jones throws for 500 yards and 6 TDs against Washington week 17. Irrelevant.
We have a cult of people here who are emotionally invested in the Daniel Jones saga above all else, above even the fortunes of the New York Giants. At this stage I think it is fair to say they would prefer to lose with Jones than win without him.
This group cannot look at an objective set of stats, normal stats that are not exotic, with which we have judged QBs for decades, which have reliably shown us who the best QBs are, without completely losing their shit.
They think a game in which the Giants scored just 5 points with minutes to go in the third Q, in which Jones didn't throw the ball more than 20 yards more than two times, is some enormous vindication. They are beyond the reach of rationality. They have an emotional attachment to Jones that goes beyond normal player/fan attachments. They identify with him like he is family, and they want to try to win with him, even if he is a subpar player. It doesn't matter if we waste years with this guy. These are the repercussions of Gettleman having a funny feeling about a player and boning the pick. he'll wander off into retirement and the fans will be fighting it out for a decade.
That might...uh...be an understatement.
Were the bengals much better than the Giants when he was drafted? Everybody said his line was shit when they drafted Chase over Sewell. How soon we forget.
A great QB can turn things around faster than we are seeing with this QB and this team.
I'll leave it to the Giants to figure out what to invest. It's their money.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
Yes, because narrowly beating garbage teams while failing to field a productive offense doesn't move the needle if your goal is to build a great Super Bowl champion. It's like winning the NFC East last season. It is a hollow, almost pyrrhic victory.
And we’re backing to the same excuses as last year. “Injuries”. “The offensive line is terrible”. “It’s Garrett’s fault”. All could be true, but he still hasn’t shown enough.
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that's WITH all the injuries.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
Yes, because narrowly beating garbage teams while failing to field a productive offense doesn't move the needle if your goal is to build a great Super Bowl champion. It's like winning the NFC East last season. It is a hollow, almost pyrrhic victory.
Dude...my word....wtf.
Good teams don't win ugly? Are you high? 2007 ring a bell? What about last year's Bucs team barely getting by a bad NYG team. What about the 86 Giants? the most dominant NFL team in NY history won ugly all year long until January save for 1-2 games.
Jones is playing well just let it go already. Or, keep doubling down and die on this same hill day after day. You're so invested now I guess you can't turn back? Is that it?
DEVELOPMENT. Not always linear. Rarely predictable. Just fucking relax and watch the guy play. You don't need to make a decision now and no one is building a monument in your honor if you're proven to be correct day.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
We'd still be 24th in the league in points scored, so yes we are still having this conversation. 19th in yards per game.
That's not good enough.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
Also a Saints fumble from being 1-6.
If TD production improves when some playmakers get back on field, then I would be okay with either #1 or #2 and absorbing the $4M penalty.
Otherwise if they finish 7-9 or below trade him in the offseason.
Anything better give him another year.
Otherwise if they finish 7-9 or below trade him in the offseason.
Anything better give him another year.
If the Giants don't win this week then Jones should be traded immediately?
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that's WITH all the injuries.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
Also a Saints fumble from being 1-6.
It’s amazing how this fan base uses the same excuses and what if’s year to year. There’s not even any creativity.
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if they don't win this week I say trade him.
Otherwise if they finish 7-9 or below trade him in the offseason.
Anything better give him another year.
If the Giants don't win this week then Jones should be traded immediately?
Yes immediate trade. It's not even about him per se, it's about something the Giants don't understand very well. You have to line up your window. You have to have a team building strategy. We didn't do that, we don't have one. And having Jones an actual asset languish more in this failed structure isn't helping anyone but the Mara family feel like maybe they aren't as shitty as they actually are.
Maximize your picks, ensure you have a good foundation before you start spending money on FA and trading draft picks for players. It's always the same thing "we could have had 4 more wins!!" "A few plays away from 4-3"
We suck. This foundation sucks. We need a new foundation and we need as many people who assembled this one as possible dismissed.
I'd take 1 of 2 of those things in a heartbeat though
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In comment 15430743 Jim in Forest Hills said:
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that's WITH all the injuries.
I know no moral victories but are we having this conversation if Slayton makes that catch and Dex just sits down?
Also a Saints fumble from being 1-6.
It’s amazing how this fan base uses the same excuses and what if’s year to year. There’s not even any creativity.
The funniest part is the Mara's hire JJ Mr. no excuses we are all on this submarine blah blah. And then you have his BOSSES making excuses for him.
It's like I ordered Ice Cream and the guy is bragging about his Ice Cream scooper system and then he drops my Ice Cream on the floor and the manager comes out to assure me it isn't the scooper system. I feel the exact same way about JJ as I do that person scooping my Ice Cream. I don't give a shit about how you do it until I see you do it right.
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In comment 15431317 NoGainDayne said:
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if they don't win this week I say trade him.
Otherwise if they finish 7-9 or below trade him in the offseason.
Anything better give him another year.
If the Giants don't win this week then Jones should be traded immediately?
Yes immediate trade. It's not even about him per se, it's about something the Giants don't understand very well. You have to line up your window. You have to have a team building strategy. We didn't do that, we don't have one. And having Jones an actual asset languish more in this failed structure isn't helping anyone but the Mara family feel like maybe they aren't as shitty as they actually are.
Maximize your picks, ensure you have a good foundation before you start spending money on FA and trading draft picks for players. It's always the same thing "we could have had 4 more wins!!" "A few plays away from 4-3"
We suck. This foundation sucks. We need a new foundation and we need as many people who assembled this one as possible dismissed.
I'd take 1 of 2 of those things in a heartbeat though
Really don't argue with all these points about improving the structure and foundation of the Franchise, but you don't trade Jones if it isn't about him per se.
Jones may not be the future, but he can start and is on a guaranteed cheap contract. If he can return a high pick or there is an upgrade that makes the grade to draft in 2022, then dealing Jones should be considered. If not, keep him in place for another year and use the picks elsewhere to improve the roster.
Really don't argue with all these points about improving the structure and foundation of the Franchise, but you don't trade Jones if it isn't about him per se.
Jones may not be the future, but he can start and is on a guaranteed cheap contract. If he can return a high pick or there is an upgrade that makes the grade to draft in 2022, then dealing Jones should be considered. If not, keep him in place for another year and use the picks elsewhere to improve the roster.
But see here is the thing. I come from a stock background and teams like the Pats have been "trading" for years.
Jones is an asset this year but next year on that option contract his asset value is much less. Trading him ASAP you are getting back more value.
And that's the thing we fuck up time and time again. If we are 2-6 the best thing we can do is bottom out. Get as many draft picks as possible. Year after year we hear about these great ends and moral victories but they don't ever do anything because we refuse to accept that we have a flawed foundation.
That's what you and they fail to understand. We have to trade our assets that have value if we ever want to actually rebuild our foundation. Of course Jones could increase our win total above replacement in theory, 1 maybe 2 wins over a full season. (although that is unproven someone will pay for that value and we need it more than a team that could be 7-8 wins without him)
As a team that is a 4-6 win team at best we need to rebuild not try to squeeze out the max wins of a crappy core. That has gotten us literally no where.
But see here is the thing. I come from a stock background and teams like the Pats have been "trading" for years.
Jones is an asset this year but next year on that option contract his asset value is much less. Trading him ASAP you are getting back more value.
And that's the thing we fuck up time and time again. If we are 2-6 the best thing we can do is bottom out. Get as many draft picks as possible. Year after year we hear about these great ends and moral victories but they don't ever do anything because we refuse to accept that we have a flawed foundation.
Too many people (including people in the Giants front office) think that this is still the 1980s where you can build and build and build and eventually get good with a lot of the players you started with. You don't get to hold on to a QB for 7 years without paying for him.
With the the current CBA and salary cap, roster turnover happens quickly even for franchises that draft well and manage their finances logically. Anyone you draft now that develops into a good/great player will be getting paid in 3-5 years. That means you either have to have the money allocated for them, or have a reasonable replacement option.
The Giants don't even have the framework of a plan in place. They are deficient in a number of areas, and over the next few years have a lot of money committed to very few players.
Trading down last year was a good start, but they are not a year or two away from being contenders and it's going to take draft picks and undervalued free agents to get things turned around.
Others have said it, the best time to trade Jones would have been after his rookie year. The second best time to trade him is right now.
If the differential is a 2nd now versus a 6th/7th later than maybe. If it actually drops to a 6th then there may not be a market for him anyway as a starter.
Only guessing above by the way.
And like that's the point. What is the real best case scenario for Jones? Are we going to be able to put a good team around him anytime soon?
That's the problem really. He could put us on his back next year and get us to 8 wins but that's not really what we want.
The Giants don't actually understand team construction. So this is moot. I fully expect Barkley and Jones to get new contracts and our ceiling the next 5+ years to be a first round playoff exit.
And like that's the point. What is the real best case scenario for Jones? Are we going to be able to put a good team around him anytime soon?
That's the problem really. He could put us on his back next year and get us to 8 wins but that's not really what we want.
The Giants don't actually understand team construction. So this is moot. I fully expect Barkley and Jones to get new contracts and our ceiling the next 5+ years to be a first round playoff exit.
Two 2nd rounders is a lot. If both happen to be in the same draft year (rare) then I would pull that trigger.
But I think it is moot as a couple of more pretty decent games and the Giants are going to stick with him, right or wrong.
And like that's the point. What is the real best case scenario for Jones? Are we going to be able to put a good team around him anytime soon?
That's the problem really. He could put us on his back next year and get us to 8 wins but that's not really what we want.
The Giants don't actually understand team construction. So this is moot. I fully expect Barkley and Jones to get new contracts and our ceiling the next 5+ years to be a first round playoff exit.
This is a great point. When Eli was drafted, the roster wasn't actually that bad - we were only two years removed from being the hot team going into the playoffs. But the OL was in shambles, and Collins got hurt, and the 2003 season went in the toilet. But we weren't facing a full rebuild.
This front office has not actually ever successfully dealt with a full rebuild. And with recent history as our guide, it's becoming clear that they don't have much idea about how to do it now.
I'll stipulate my answer by saying if the Giants finish out with 7+ wins and Jones runs and passes for 20+ TD's I think they will pick up his 5th year option. I like the athleticism and heart he brings to the position. It will be interesting to see him if we can get Thomas, Barkley and a few of our starting WR's back on the field.
Although I would expect that an uptick in production would be dismissed out of hand..."The players around him make Jones better and a rookie could do the same thing"