I know there are a number of folks who don't enjoy debating the economics, in the spirit of a productive convo if you fall in that group maybe politely not chime in? Thanks
This offseason Jones will be eligible for:
1) a contract extension
2) a fully guaranteed 5th year option for 2023 at $21.3M
Going into his 4th year Jones will cost the Giants ~8.3M against the 2022 cap, roughly half of that figure is the amortized potion of his signing bonus ($4.1M)
The balance of his cap charge is a fully guaranteed salary and fully guaranteed roster bonus, meaning if he's cut that will accelerate, and if he was traded it would be his new team's responsibility.
So this offseason the Giants can:
1) Exercise his 5th year option, retain his rights and his 2023 salary will be $21.3M fully guaranteed
2) Decline his 5th year option, but still have the rights to franchise tag him for 2023 at somewhere north of $25M
3) Decline his option and let him walk after the 2022 season
4) Extend Jones on a multi-year deal
5) Trade Jones and save ~4M
So two simple questions:
If Jones does blank by the end of the year -- I want the the Giants to pick one of the five options.
Thanks for gracing us with your opinions as we wallow in uselessness = )
If the options are:
- Exercise the option and be locked into $23.1M for 2023
- Decline the option and have the franchise tender in your back pocket say at even $30M
What's more risky? Paying an extra $7M for a QB you like, or paying $23.1M to a QB you don't?
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The good news, he's got a contract for '22 and they can pick up his option for '23, and not rush into a multi-year extension.
I get a little itchy now that the option is fully guaranteed.
I don't see the downside of declining the option, letting him play, and franchising if necessary.
If Jones plays well in year four the Giants are locking him up with a top of market deal in my view.
The thought of enduring four years of mediocre quarterbacking just to see if he proves it...wow.
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and tell him to go earn his next contract in year 4 since we could franchise him still if he miraculously played at an elite level.
I think that's exactly where I am too.
Because his 5th year option and franchise tender are in the same neighborhood -- I'd pick the path where I have flexibility.
I'd gladly risk paying the extra $5M difference between the option and the tender for the flexibility.
Mostly because I believe the Giants will extend him after year four if he plays well.
I also saw the Baker Mayfield "news" (rumor really) earlier today about him wanting around $30m per. Jones is surely below that which big picture isn't much more per year than the 5th year option.
IF I"m reading the list correctly.
Right now Jones is an IF guy. He needs to be less yo-yo and more consistent, especially in the red zone. Put together 5-6 consistent games in a row, score TDs or don't pick up the 5th year option.
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In comment 15430131 JonC said:
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The good news, he's got a contract for '22 and they can pick up his option for '23, and not rush into a multi-year extension.
I get a little itchy now that the option is fully guaranteed.
I don't see the downside of declining the option, letting him play, and franchising if necessary.
If Jones plays well in year four the Giants are locking him up with a top of market deal in my view.
The thought of enduring four years of mediocre quarterbacking just to see if he proves it...wow.
How is that 4 more years? You've raised his level of play to mediocre? Wow even Terps is seeing improvement!
You could argue that’s not good use of limited resources. Paying Jones $21 million in Year 5 just to bench him midway through for a rookie isn’t smart operating.
They can only pick up the option if they’re 100% sold he’s the guy for the foreseeable future.
However, looking at the schedule - there is no reason the Giants shouldn’t be able to go 7-3 the rest of the way. If Jones plays very well and leads the Giants to a winning record, ask me again.
The biggest issues most people had with Jones were his pocket awareness and fumbling. He has stepped up big time in the last 12 months in both areas.
While there wasn't a big sample size to work with, I also felt like he didn't throw well on the run. Last week, he was pinpoint on all those throws, and really only missed 2 passes all day.
Mahomes, Murray, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, and Jackson are the only guys I wouldn't have Jones in front of if building a team for the future. Of all those guys, Jones has the most scope for improvement because he has yet to play with a solid team (Look at what a scrub like Darnold did with a better team around him for a few weeks).
If we can get healthy on Offense after the bye, I expect Jones to light it up in the 2nd half of the season.
There was a vocal segment here who wanted to drop Eli early on in our Superbowl season. The guys piling on Jones are going to look just as foolish (though I suspect their might be some overlap in the 2 groups).
However, looking at the schedule - there is no reason the Giants shouldn’t be able to go 7-3 the rest of the way. If Jones plays very well and leads the Giants to a winning record, ask me again.
7-3 the rest of the way?
It’s either, let see when he has a competent line and run game or it’s blow the entire thing up and restart with a rookie qb contract which I can get behind. To say jones hasn’t shown enough and he has to improve his TDs is insane. Look at this weeks game. Rudolph could have easily scored a td. Slayton was open deep but the line couldn’t hold up on a 7 man protection to block 4. That’s a 3 TD day. Instead he had one. Fans see what they want but the eye test is all you need. Stop with the statistics.
However, looking at the schedule - there is no reason the Giants shouldn’t be able to go 7-3 the rest of the way. If Jones plays very well and leads the Giants to a winning record, ask me again.
Where are these 7 wins coming from?
I see Burrow & Herbert doing it with their teams. The Bengals OL stinks. The 2nd half schedule includes two games against Philly, WFT, Miami & Chicago. Let’s see Jones go out and ball.
Is that not reasonable?
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and tell him to go earn his next contract in year 4 since we could franchise him still if he miraculously played at an elite level.
I think that's exactly where I am too.
Because his 5th year option and franchise tender are in the same neighborhood -- I'd pick the path where I have flexibility.
I'd gladly risk paying the extra $5M difference between the option and the tender for the flexibility.
Mostly because I believe the Giants will extend him after year four if he plays well.
That's a good point, there isn't a hell of a lot of difference between option and franchise tag RIGHT NOW. But the tag number could go up.
I'm fine with the option, it's only one year, and it kicks the can down the road for a year.
If they stay healthy. I’d be happy getting a sample size of how he does with all three playing.
Means Giants can still draft a qb prospect in 22-23 and challenge him by all means. They should draft some comp. they should also continue to improve the team overall and continue to evaluate.
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As of today, I think the Giants might be able to fetch a 2nd rounder for him. I think that is the best option currently.
However, looking at the schedule - there is no reason the Giants shouldn’t be able to go 7-3 the rest of the way. If Jones plays very well and leads the Giants to a winning record, ask me again.
Where are these 7 wins coming from?
7 wins and 3 losses...what are you, kidding me?
Do we get to play the Jets 7 times?
It’s either, let see when he has a competent line and run game or it’s blow the entire thing up and restart with a rookie qb contract which I can get behind. To say jones hasn’t shown enough and he has to improve his TDs is insane. Look at this weeks game. Rudolph could have easily scored a td. Slayton was open deep but the line couldn’t hold up on a 7 man protection to block 4. That’s a 3 TD day. Instead he had one. Fans see what they want but the eye test is all you need. Stop with the statistics.
Multiple things can be true at once. The roster could be terrible but Jones should still be able to show more. Nobody is asking for 5000 yards and 50 tds, but he’s on pace for 12 after throwing 11 last year. Pro football reference charges to search now but I’m sure there’s not many QBs regardless of how bad the team has been to start 13+ games and not break 15 tds in back to back years in the Super Bowl era.
And those things you list at the end happen to every QB every week. You don’t win games on what should have happened if the play went right.
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In comment 15430238 Sean said:
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As of today, I think the Giants might be able to fetch a 2nd rounder for him. I think that is the best option currently.
However, looking at the schedule - there is no reason the Giants shouldn’t be able to go 7-3 the rest of the way. If Jones plays very well and leads the Giants to a winning record, ask me again.
Where are these 7 wins coming from?
7 wins and 3 losses...what are you, kidding me?
Do we get to play the Jets 7 times?
They’ll be hard pressed to hit 7 wins total Let alone 7 of their last 10
I see Burrow & Herbert doing it with their teams. The Bengals OL stinks. The 2nd half schedule includes two games against Philly, WFT, Miami & Chicago. Let’s see Jones go out and ball.
Is that not reasonable?
I don't think it is, 3-7 is more likely for the Giants. Maybe they sneak out an extra 1-2 during the final month, as losing teams fade and prepare to go home.
Burrow & Herbert are two much stronger QB prospects, and with more talent around them, teams that are playing well enough to post good records so far.
It’s either, let see when he has a competent line and run game or it’s blow the entire thing up and restart with a rookie qb contract which I can get behind. To say jones hasn’t shown enough and he has to improve his TDs is insane. Look at this weeks game. Rudolph could have easily scored a td. Slayton was open deep but the line couldn’t hold up on a 7 man protection to block 4. That’s a 3 TD day. Instead he had one. Fans see what they want but the eye test is all you need. Stop with the statistics.
Why is it so difficult to believe DG has done a poor job of putting a good roster together AND that Jones should still be playing better anyway as the #6 overall pick 2.5 half seasons ago?
Jones has been negatively affected by the other Offensive players and he still has to pick up his own game a good amount...
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you can still bring in a rookie though. If Jones plays well, then good problem to have. If not, hand it to the rookie part way through year 4 or in year 5. Point is there's flexibility.
You could argue that’s not good use of limited resources. Paying Jones $21 million in Year 5 just to bench him midway through for a rookie isn’t smart operating.
They can only pick up the option if they’re 100% sold he’s the guy for the foreseeable future.
I may have poorly worded it but in this scenario there isn’t a year 5. Jones starts head 4 and either is replaced at some point during the season by whomever we draft, or in what would be year 5, turn it over to the now sophomore QB. Or don’t take a QB and let Jones play out year 4 and see where we are at and decide on an extension or draft/trade.
2x vs Philly
WFT
Chicago
Miami
Go win some games. Otherwise, I’m resetting at QB. That is my point. Again, is that not reasonable? Burrow doesn’t have excuses and he’s winning. Raise the standards here.
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Why not? The question is how much would you invest in Jones? If he’s going to get a 2nd contract here go out and win.
I see Burrow & Herbert doing it with their teams. The Bengals OL stinks. The 2nd half schedule includes two games against Philly, WFT, Miami & Chicago. Let’s see Jones go out and ball.
Is that not reasonable?
I don't think it is, 3-7 is more likely for the Giants. Maybe they sneak out an extra 1-2 during the final month, as losing teams fade and prepare to go home.
Burrow & Herbert are two much stronger QB prospects, and with more talent around them, teams that are playing well enough to post good records so far.
And this is why I probably opt to reset at QB.
As for talent, didn’t the Giants just pay a ton in FA to win this year? Just awful roster construction.
BPA and if one is available at their pick or with minimal loss of assets AND a clear upgrade draft one. If not wait till the year after or the after market.
Use next draft to strengthen the team in the front 7 and OL. I think they should target a complete TE as well.
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if he remains steady the 5th year option is a no brainer. this seems the most likely scenario. You give him another year, hopefully with a new OC and better OL. If Darnold retained trade value Jones likely will too so the option to move on should still be there.
Thanks for gracing us with your opinions as we wallow in uselessness = )
If the options are:
- Exercise the option and be locked into $23.1M for 2023
- Decline the option and have the franchise tender in your back pocket say at even $30M
What's more risky? Paying an extra $7M for a QB you like, or paying $23.1M to a QB you don't?
Sort of a strawman. I'd wager a lot they like him now and have honestly liked him for the better part of his 2.5 years here. And if he continues to play well they will likely him in the offseason.
So them not liking him would be a big deviation and even if that happens and all hell breaks loose in Judge year 3 and they have to blow up and start over again, in all likelihood he'd still be tradable - as Darnold was.
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In comment 15430202 UConn4523 said:
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you can still bring in a rookie though. If Jones plays well, then good problem to have. If not, hand it to the rookie part way through year 4 or in year 5. Point is there's flexibility.
You could argue that’s not good use of limited resources. Paying Jones $21 million in Year 5 just to bench him midway through for a rookie isn’t smart operating.
They can only pick up the option if they’re 100% sold he’s the guy for the foreseeable future.
I may have poorly worded it but in this scenario there isn’t a year 5. Jones starts head 4 and either is replaced at some point during the season by whomever we draft, or in what would be year 5, turn it over to the now sophomore QB. Or don’t take a QB and let Jones play out year 4 and see where we are at and decide on an extension or draft/trade.
Rereading I think you may have worded it fine and it interpreted as benching him midway through year 5. This could be the right way to go about it because if in year 5 he shows he is the franchise QB you can just sign him to a long term deal. Year 5 probably costs you more than the option year but the last two years of the deal would be a bargain the way contracts continue to rise.
If they stay healthy. I’d be happy getting a sample size of how he does with all three playing.
Means Giants can still draft a qb prospect in 22-23 and challenge him by all means. They should draft some comp. they should also continue to improve the team overall and continue to evaluate.
What's this crap I keep reading about challenging Jones with a rookie? For a forum dedicated to one topic, it's shocking how little knowledge some have.
The one thing about Jones that there's no dispute on is that he gives 100%. He works hard in the off season, at practice, and puts it all on the line in games.
You put a rookie behind this line, with these weapons and he won't just be seeing ghosts, he'll become one. Shit, more than half of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL would be looking like dogshit in this situation.
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In comment 15430253 Sean said:
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Why not? The question is how much would you invest in Jones? If he’s going to get a 2nd contract here go out and win.
I see Burrow & Herbert doing it with their teams. The Bengals OL stinks. The 2nd half schedule includes two games against Philly, WFT, Miami & Chicago. Let’s see Jones go out and ball.
Is that not reasonable?
I don't think it is, 3-7 is more likely for the Giants. Maybe they sneak out an extra 1-2 during the final month, as losing teams fade and prepare to go home.
Burrow & Herbert are two much stronger QB prospects, and with more talent around them, teams that are playing well enough to post good records so far.
And this is why I probably opt to reset at QB.
As for talent, didn’t the Giants just pay a ton in FA to win this year? Just awful roster construction.
Giants have been consistently poor under DG in both drafting and signing UFAs, as well as being well off-target in assessing how talented their roster actually is.
I'd certainly lean towards your approach, but doubt the Giants will ...
Picking up the 5th year option contains guaranteed money only in the event or injury. The Giants could always trade Jones if they wanted to as he has played much better than Darnold did prior to his trade.
IDK JonC, I think Sy has said he is doing well(better?) with his reads. I do not pretend to be able to tell if he is. But if Sy says he is, then he probably is.
But I agree with red zone production. Too bad he lost Golladay, Toney, Barkley and Shepard together(not to mention Thomas). Just too doggone hard to judge him with his bottom 4 WRs only on the field.
If all of the were released this week who gets picked up, Engram, Peart, Slayton, Booker and maybe Rudolph and Smith. Out of them who sees any playing time on a decent team? This supporting cast is having a direct effect on the QB, this is not the NBA where you figure Jones can still get his 20 on offense as he is one on one on O. Have at it, tell me how he is supposed to go and raise that group to some high level. Plus I also believe that Jones carried that Offense on his back on the 11 play 75 yard TD drive in the 3rd quarter
If he wins 5+ more games this year I’d consider extending him for the right price.
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but I remain in the trade him camp, unless he starts producing in the red zone and fixes some of the read progression issues.
IDK JonC, I think Sy has said he is doing well(better?) with his reads. I do not pretend to be able to tell if he is. But if Sy says he is, then he probably is.
But I agree with red zone production. Too bad he lost Golladay, Toney, Barkley and Shepard together(not to mention Thomas). Just too doggone hard to judge him with his bottom 4 WRs only on the field.
I think he's improving, but to my eye much of it is still on plays with 1-2 reads and then unload the pass. He's still missing some open receivers and not seeing the entire field, still staring down targets and not using enough eye manipulation to move defenders and create time/space. It looks to me like he's using outlet routes at times when a receiver is turned loose down the field and should be where the pass goes. It all adds up.
The red zone production is a bit eyesore he still needs to solve. Some of it is injuries to his receivers, some of it is Garrett being chicken, and some of it is Jones read and react is too slow in the tight spaces near the goal line.
We’d take .500 for starters
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will change the minds of the Jones hatters. He could lead the NFL in all QB categories or win an MVP, but if the Giants don't win a SB, the hatters will say lets trade him while his value is high.
We’d take .500 for starters
Possibly in the D plays a lot better and the injured guys on the skill positions come back as well as Thomas and Peart plays avg or better at RT then maybe their is a chance.
Why would anyone take you seriously?