if it's not him I expect it will be someone like him, but there is a lot to like on his resume. Spent 9 years with Friedman in Tampa. Would be a really interesting hire.
the 3 big names he was arguably (or in line) with the best case scenario. Puma suggested he may tap a GM from the Rays. Bendix reportedly said he's staying, so Carlos Rodriguez would be the obvious "get".
the PBO presumably will set the vision and structure so whoever he trusts is fine by me.
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
I care. Both of Arnold's previous stops were notably collaborative efforts. That's the environment he's coming from.
""Matt is going to be the sole assistant general manager. We're really going to run the baseball operations group as a partnership," said Stearns, who is in his second full week on the job."
Friedman was then quick to follow, and moved to a President role that oversaw the organization as a whole, hiring a full time GM out of the Athletics front office in Farhan Zaidi.
The Rays then adopted the same front office structure, moving Matt Silverman into a President role but did not install a General Manager. Those duties are presumably shared between Silverman and his two VPs of Baseball Operations, Neander and Bloom.
Prior to the promotions, Bloom and Neander were both Directors of Operations. Bloom served in a management position over player development, scouting, and contracts, while Neander focused on player personnel, as well as the team's research and development. As VPs, it is presumed they continue those duties but with more significance.
So Arnold very much is used to working within a team. GM hire is going to be an important one for him. Rodriguez would be a very nice addition.
Carlos Rodriguez was the runner-up for the Cubs GM spot so presumably, it sounds like he's looking to become a big league GM and he worked with Arnold with the Rays.
Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
of course GM hire is important and of course these guys work as teams
Friedman works as a team.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
You mean an American, in heavily Latino market in a position very few people of color have ever had a chance? Again, his resume speaks for itself. A fluent Spanish speaker born in Puerto Rico is a net plus.
RE: of course GM hire is important and of course these guys work as teams
Friedman works as a team.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
I'd argue the previous Sandy regime or Brodie etc was far less collaborative. Brodie's FO was a hedge poge of random (seemingly Wilpon) hires. Omar Minaya, Baird, John Ricco, Adam Guttridge, Jared Banner
Guttridge for example had never even been employed full-time by an MLB team
like Guttridge was one and done (no longer in baseball, Banner is with the Cubs now "special projects" VP. Omar is an ambassador with the Mets. Not exactly a dream team.
"He is working plenty hard," said Stearns. "Trust me on that. He's as hard a worker as I've been around and I've been around some really good ones, so that's saying something."
In his first gig as a general manager, Stearns is running the show at One Brewers Way. But he treats Arnold more as a work partner than a subordinate, which was the understanding from the very beginning.
Much like Stearns in his previous stops, Arnold had his fingers in many pies with the Rays. He participated in player evaluations, contract negotiations, player development, medical matters, foreign and domestic scouting, and the ever-expanding area of analytics.
but Sandy's wasn't - he had Depo/JP, was for a time grooming Ricco, and also had Tramuta/Tanous continually growing their titles and taking more direct ownership of the scouting side (they did a lot more of the draft PR stuff, etc).
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
but Sandy's wasn't - he had Depo/JP, was for a time grooming Ricco, and also had Tramuta/Tanous continually growing their titles and taking more direct ownership of the scouting side (they did a lot more of the draft PR stuff, etc).
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
Grooming Ricco? Ricco has been here for almost 20 years now. I'm sure he's fine at whatever he does but this will be his 18th season with the Mets. JP Ricciardi had essentially a part-time role (he didn't even move to NY, he stayed in Boston during his entire time with the Mets). Tramuta/Tanous were not "decision makers" under Sandy, Tanous wasn't even promoted to head of scouting until 2017.
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers HAVE lost some of their best. In fact, ex-Dodgers FO members are the GM’s for the Giants/Braves. Jeff Kingston was considered for the Angels and Phillies jobs last year, didn’t get them but still was considered.
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers also are very smart. By not naming a GM they can use that slot to protect somebody they don’t want to lose (looks to be the case with Gomes)
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Porter got fired just 6 weeks after he was hired and just a few weeks before ST - once that happened who was supposed to continue recruiting to make those hires? The interim GM who didn't even know if he was going to stick around?
The porter situation was like a stick of dynamite going off in the front office - and after it did the priority had to be getting through the season and leave the decision on how to restructure the org until after the season. Maybe scott stepped up and earned that job. Or maybe they needed a whole new search (which they did). they had to finalize a roster that wasn't yet set. Then they had to extend Lindor. In-season is never a time with a lot of FO movement in any sport - and rightfully they have said they want the new hires to be able to make decisions.
Will never know what Sandy would have allowed Porter to do but we do know it was reported Sandy made the final call on trades when it came to Scott. Which either means that Sandy was always going to “be in charge” or he didn’t trust Scott to do so.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
so if Arnold/his agent isn't responding to comment, that would seem to imply the initial source is not his camp. So then likely either NYM or MIL. And we know Martino gets a lot of info straight from the Mets.
So either Puma is way over his skis with some bs, which is possible. maybe Arnold's agent looking for leverage?
or Puma is right and the mets have somehow made an offer despite not yet having explicit permission. if there's language in Arnold's deal that limits his ability to interview in some scenarios (like maybe a lateral move?) that also means that same language allows it in another scenario (like maybe a promotion?).
either way it appears that the mets are trying to pump the brakes. either because the initial reports were wrong or the initial reports were right but it's not a done deal yet.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Martino 100% gets info directly from the mets and often presents that info from their point of view.
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
pretty sure the speculation last year was that they got blocked
MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reported that Chernoff was headed for a formal interview with the Mets earlier in the week and was the top candidate to help owner Steve Cohen and Sandy Alderson build a new front office. On Thursday, however, Cohen in responding to a Tweet from a fan asking if Chernoff was scheduled for an interview, Tweeted, “Not that I’m aware of. Wrong, again.”
It’s unclear if the Mets asked the Indians for permission to interview Chernoff and were turned down or that Chernoff decided not to interview. Chernoff is from New Jersey and grew up a Mets fan.
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
As most of us know, is from the area and some speculation was he didn’t love the idea of being in the same market as WFAN (his dad, who has since retired) but I heard directly from people who would know that it came (mostly) down to his children.
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Right but read Martino's tweet re: Arnold. It sounds like there is language in his contract that does allow him to interview elsewhere within some stated limits.
This is just a guess by me but maybe he has it in his contract that he is allowed to interview for any promotions?
I mean, that would be a very obvious and fair thing to ask for in a contract.
if that's the case it is the piece of information that can tie together both Puma's report and Martino's report as both being accurate. The Mets made Arnold an offer he's allowed to get because of his contract, however they haven't asked for or been granted permission (which is nothing more than a dodge any way because they didn't have to because of his contract).
Or Puma is wrong.
Or Martino is wrong.
But I think Martino is right and I'm hoping Puma's not wrong.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
if there's limiting language then there's also another side to that where contact is allowed under whatever conditions aren't limited.
like a limited NTC.
for an executive to get something like that in their contract the most logical thing to ask for would be allowance to interview for promotions. Or preferred locations or something like that. Arnold is another CA guy so I guess we need to hope the guy negotiated to get himself the right to be promoted.
.....or anyone else. I am as anxious as any Met fan to fill this position. A year ago, I was invigorated by Cohen's ownership and now it seems (whether it is a media based narrative), the aesthetics look as if this job is undesirable. I am not arguing for or against that.
Is it possible that the work stoppage is playing a part in this process? If there is a work stoppage, how does that affect the league's front offices? Obviously transactions and of course depending on the length, some of the season could be affected.
Is it possible we are still looking a year from now?
Can’t really answer your question other than from the people I’ve spoke to it would be “stunning” if there isn’t a work stoppage. Could they figure it out without missing games? Sure but it seems like there is no realistic way there is a deal before the deadline
If Mayer is right (he said mets are optimistic they get Arnold)
Are the Mets rushing a decision or could this be a fortunate event in only that it buys the Mets time. I know the counterpoint would be having someone in place as soon as business resumes. I admit I don't have a full understanding.
I don’t think work stoppage is the problem for nym
Can’t verify this nor am I a Brewers historian but somebody on twitter claimed the brewers blocked Stearns from interviewing for the Giants POBO job back when he was GM
I trust Martino's info a lot more because he has a much lengthier track record. I said "if he's right" for a reason.
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
Can’t verify this nor am I a Brewers historian but somebody on twitter claimed the brewers blocked Stearns from interviewing for the Giants POBO job back when he was GM
if I knew that happened to my mentor/predecessor, you know what I'd ask for in my contract when I was promoted to GM?
Could MIL be playing hardball to get some kind of comp here?
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
RE: Could MIL be playing hardball to get some kind of comp here?
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.
Eric,
There is flat out no "rule" that teams have to allow interviews even for promotions. Tom Haudricourt has covered the Brewers since 1985 and he said "it's unlikely the Brewers would block it" aka they can if they choose to.
Dan I know that but nobody knows what's in his contract
and his contract can say whatever the 2 parties agreed to. Has nothing to do with rules. He could have specifically requested an allowance to interview for promotions. If I saw my boss get blocked twice for promotions you can bet I'd have asked for that before signing a contract.
"the sport maintains a professional courtesy to allow executives to pursue job openings at other clubs if it involves a promotion. Privately, executives acknowledge that has led to a bit of titular chicanery in which roles are given elevated titles to pry talented executives from rivals or to play defense against such poaching."
aka no actual rule.
RE: Dan I know that but nobody knows what's in his contract
and his contract can say whatever the 2 parties agreed to. Has nothing to do with rules. He could have specifically requested an allowance to interview for promotions. If I saw my boss get blocked twice for promotions you can bet I'd have asked for that before signing a contract.
I'm confused, why would he put any language in his contract making it harder to leave? Martino's tweets are implying his ability to speak to other clubs is LIMITED by the specific language. That's the opposite of what you're suggesting so I'm very confused.
" Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point."
That's the complete opposite of "he saw what Stearns went through so he has language that helps him".
confused by your point. He saw his boss was limited/blocked so he put in extra language limiting talking to other clubs? This sure reads like the Brewers limited what he can do (assuming Martino is even right).
"the sport maintains a professional courtesy to allow executives to pursue job openings at other clubs if it involves a promotion. Privately, executives acknowledge that has led to a bit of titular chicanery in which roles are given elevated titles to pry talented executives from rivals or to play defense against such poaching."
it Would be beyond unusual for a team to block an employee from discussing a promotion.
and I replied that it was heavily suggested last year that exactly that happened to mets.
either way it doesn't matter. reposting what Martino said again:
Quote:
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
the way this is phrased is deceptive. If he was under a typical MLB contract where there are no rules re: blocking, he'd have no ability to interview with other clubs.
it is a reverse negative, if there is specific language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs, that means there's also language in his contract that allows him to interview with other clubs under some set of specified conditions.
looking at the all that he's been through my best guess is that he got it in his contract that he's allowed to interview for promotions.
Will Carroll
@injuryexpert
·
2h
Teams are not supposed to block promotions from team to team, but remember, there's still a contract involved. "Asking permission" is a courtesy. And yes, it's happened that things get blocked, even for promotions. Ask Dan Duquette.
if there's language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs.
that presumably means somewhere in that contract he has the ability to interview with other clubs.
or else what is that language limiting? why the need for any special language since the default in MLB is all contracts need permission.
limiting language would only be needed if the team was agreeing to carve out and scenarios where they would allow the person in question to interview. like a promotion, or a certain geography, or whatever.
if the guiding principle of MLB exec contracts is that they are ironclad at the owner's discretion like a player with a NTC, I read from Martino's tweet that there's some speculation that Arnold has a LNTC.
He is a new GM so he very well may not have viewed his situation as having a tremendous amount of leverage so he may not have included a clause on interviewing for promotions. I would think any GM on their second or third contract would have that commitment.
He is a new GM so he very well may not have viewed his situation as having a tremendous amount of leverage so he may not have included a clause on interviewing for promotions. I would think any GM on their second or third contract would have that commitment.
well apparently he included something.
and if I had seen my boss get blocked twice in the last 2 years, including just weeks earlier, I know what I would have held out for...
Suspect it’s based on teams. The Brewers owner is known to be the most defensive and outspoken when it comes to “small markets” so it stands to reason he looks to protect his franchise from being “poached” by the big bad wolf aka big market teams. Now that doesn’t mean he won’t let Arnold go, but such a move might be one that isn’t a guaranteed “yes” vs. Arnold going to say the Marlins. I’m just guessing here but it’s been oft repeated how defensive he is of the small markets.
Suspect it’s based on teams. The Brewers owner is known to be the most defensive and outspoken when it comes to “small markets” so it stands to reason he looks to protect his franchise from being “poached” by the big bad wolf aka big market teams. Now that doesn’t mean he won’t let Arnold go, but such a move might be one that isn’t a guaranteed “yes” vs. Arnold going to say the Marlins. I’m just guessing here but it’s been oft repeated how defensive he is of the small markets.
anything is possible - but whatever it is combined with the other rumors gives some hope. last year who knows what Arnold's contract status was pre-promotion. He clearly had some kind of leverage - and it may well have been from the mets sniffing around permission to interview him for gm.
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
Cohen also needs to give him confidence he will stick with him for the long haul despite any pressure to make a change in bad times.
Have yet to grant permission and yes, they have to do so for the Mets to talk to him. Promotion or not, still needs approval and isn’t a “rule” like people were parroting. It’s what’s normally done however
He is a new GM so he very well may not have viewed his situation as having a tremendous amount of leverage so he may not have included a clause on interviewing for promotions. I would think any GM on their second or third contract would have that commitment.
This appears accurate. Heyman says you need language included involving promotions or they don’t have to let you do so.
He is a new GM so he very well may not have viewed his situation as having a tremendous amount of leverage so he may not have included a clause on interviewing for promotions. I would think any GM on their second or third contract would have that commitment.
This appears accurate. Heyman says you need language included involving promotions or they don’t have to let you do so.
this is basic to all contracts when there's no superseding rule (like a CBA or MLB rule) and why Martino's initial tweet was interesting because it implied there was some kind of language in Arnold's deal re: interviewing elsewhere.
that said everyone else has pulled their reporting back in the same direction as Martino so it appears that glimmer of hope wasn't anything more than that.
semi-unrelated but Martino also tweeted today the Mets were blocked on Gomes last year (presumably from interviewing for a promotion to GM). So I guess that's at least 1 of the examples they were citing last year when they mentioned they were blocked unexpectedly even for promotions.
Baseball should really clean up that rule but I'd bet against it. Owners don't generally like giving up any autonomous power.
I trust Martino's info a lot more because he has a much lengthier track record. I said "if he's right" for a reason.
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
Is handling the search himself per Britt Ghiroli. It was delayed by a vacation he went on and it sounds as if the rest of the FO is not part of this search (including Sandy)
Owner Steve Cohen is running the executive search on his own, according to multiple sources, with little input even from team president Sandy Alderson. That’s a notable change from last winter, when Alderson was more involved in the search that eventually landed on Jared Porter in mid-December. (Porter was fired in January for sexual harassment during a prior tenure in Chicago.)
Also just want to say if you think this is actually going fine, had multiple baseball people send me that tweet with various versions of “LOL” within five minutes of it going up.
After all the talk last night and finally getting word the Mets got permission to talk to Arnold this morning, and within an hour he doesn’t want the job
I find it hard to believe they would have asked for permission without knowing Arnold wanted to talk in the first place.
I don’t generally like conspiracy theories but that seems to have a been done in a way that maximizes making Cohen and the org look bad.
Who knows what or where the issues are, but the #Mets struggling to fill this role is obviously not a good look for the organization. There really is no way around it. Take out the Stearns/Beane/Theo group and they still got denied by both Harris and now Arnold. Not great.
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
Eric,
Last time you mentioned him I looked him up. He's ineligible through 2022 (like Callaway) he's basically banned from baseball for now.
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
Eric,
Last time you mentioned him I looked him up. He's ineligible through 2022 (like Callaway) he's basically banned from baseball for now.
damn. guess that makes sense though. i hope cohen gets pissed at the other owners denying all these interviews and makes theo an obscene offer.
1% for every WS appearance and 2% for WS wins (and maybe cap him at 10%). that's $120m+ in equity now that will only grow and with the potential to double it with success.
hiring Theo is as close as you can get to buying a WS and that seems a pretty fair price if he delivers.
is going to manage in Mexico. In his case, it makes sense to me. Can't see an MLB team ever hiring him again so it's either this or maybe a small college?
is going to manage in Mexico. In his case, it makes sense to me. Can't see an MLB team ever hiring him again so it's either this or maybe a small college?
Owens was a finalist to be GM last time, now he's not even in the mix? Kinda odd.
we don't know for sure if he is or isn't but that's one where Sandy had a firsthand relationship and I'm fairly confident Beane would grant permission. So either Owens feels burned from last year or the Mets didn't choose him for a reason.
you didn't know Chris Christie's son was a huge proponent of Matt Arnold and Scott Harris?
save yourself the energy and don't take the clickbait Dan. if their "source familiar with the situation" was actually with the team, or anyone legitimately involved in MLB, they would have described them so.
you didn't know Chris Christie's son was a huge proponent of Matt Arnold and Scott Harris?
save yourself the energy and don't take the clickbait Dan. if their "source familiar with the situation" was actually with the team, or anyone legitimately involved in MLB, they would have described them so.
Deesha Thosar hasn't exactly been known to be a rumor monger type. She's been by the book since covering them for NYDN which is why this is concerning.
Is his son is apparently the amateur and international scouting director. What exactly are his qualifications for such a job that should lead anyone to think he can successfully handle such a role?
RE: The biggest part of that Christie report for me
Is his son is apparently the amateur and international scouting director. What exactly are his qualifications for such a job that should lead anyone to think he can successfully handle such a role?
Cohen me with Theo right? Do you think the idea of part ownership was even broached? It's not my team but it seems like a no brainer if done right. Is 5% or whatever it would take even consequential to Cohen? Again not my money but I would do whatever it took to get the best...
Good Fundies Brian
@OmarMinayaFan
·
2m
It's all been speculation and nonsense and outrage for clicks until @DeeshaThosar
's latest piece. Deesha is the best on the beat and I am genuinely concerned about who Cohen is getting advice from.
It would be "funny" after all of the proclamations that @mets
aren't interested in Sabean, for Sabean to be the hire and Cohen/Sandy state at the presser he was always their first choice"To be honest, we didn't think he was available"..
It’s nice that they are reaching out to the right people but troublesome that everyone is saying no.
agreed. I think a factor we need to consider with the type of hire they are most exploring (younger up and comers) is that a lot of them are complete unknowns to even 99% of MLB fans and probably like it that way. hitting the back pages of NY newspapers changes things and this job is a spotlight job.
not implying that they've done anything as nefarious, but everyone saw how quickly the spotlight exposed Porter and became a big deal. Would it have been as bad for him if he took a job in Seattle or remained in AZ? I kind of doubt it.
You can’t think all of these young GM types are turning down tens of millions right? Cohen needs to blow someone away to make this work.
hard to blow someone without a track record away pre-interview. that'd be risky and borderline negligent no matter how well regarded they are. Theo or Beane sure.
if I were Cohen I'd be on the phone with Theo upping the equity, but I'd have been doing that 2 weeks ago also.
I don't honestly believe it has much to do with Alderson either. He makes an easy target to blame for the media, but I think it is genuine that he has little interest in being day to day.
So I guess that leaves Cohen himself as the potential stumbling block for not wanting the job. I admit I am somewhat confused by that though.
Cohen may have a negative reputation in some circles but you're passing up a chance to run a team in the NY market with not unlimited, but very high monetary resources at your disposal. Perhaps I am overvaluing the attraction of that though.
Biggest red flags are Bendix/Girsch. Neither have a path to #1 in their organization and both rejected the Mets. Arnold would be a similar situation, but unclear if he said no or was actually blocked. At least Harris is from San Fran.
I don't honestly believe it has much to do with Alderson either. He makes an easy target to blame for the media, but I think it is genuine that he has little interest in being day to day.
So I guess that leaves Cohen himself as the potential stumbling block for not wanting the job. I admit I am somewhat confused by that though.
Cohen may have a negative reputation in some circles but you're passing up a chance to run a team in the NY market with not unlimited, but very high monetary resources at your disposal. Perhaps I am overvaluing the attraction of that though.
I think it's a double edged sword.
Some guys would probably be thrilled to have the chance to be a big swinging dick getting rich in NY.
Some probably value that they are already living some version of their dream life and don't want to uproot their families and mess that up. Remember execs don't move around as frequently as coaches/players do and aren't used to being in the media spotlight as much either.
It goes without saying they need to find the first type of guy who only cares about winning championships.
stearns we don't know because he clearly got blocked but he'd worked here prior and was from the area. and they did get both Porter/Scott last year.
at the end of the day it's on Cohen to find someone willing to take his check. if it needs to be a bigger check so be it. i can't imagine he hasn't found himself in similar situations before attempting to secure highly sought after talent.
Dana Brown (ATL), Billy Owens (OAK), James Harris (CLE), Carlos Rodriguez (TB), Pete Putila (HOU) are all guys who often come up as "well thought of" executives @StevenACohen2
may want to contact (shhhh I'm not really Chris Christie)
Cohen is leading the search and frankly should be. Guy has been nothing but successful in hires and at identifying what he wants in an organization. Now we may be investigated for cheating in 8 years but in interim I expect them to be filled with extremely smart (if unscrupulous) individuals. Wasn’t everyone complaining about alderson just 3 days ago? This is essentially saying all of those fears were not justified.
Bendix, Scott Harris, Mike Girsch are all second in command (or worse) and all passed on running the Mets. That's a major, major red flag any way you want to spin it. Who knows the truth in regard to Arnold's situation (blocked or passed) but his situation is the same, a #2 with no path to #1.
actually, as for Alderson... that's a strawman argument. My entire concern was Alderson and son being a turnoff to other candidates (as was also mentioned in the Athletic piece) how has this proven otherwise? Eric insisted Sandy was essential to the search process (that's not a shot at Eric) but that was never the real "Sandy debate". It was Sandy and his Bryn being president and recently promoted assistant GM and how other candidates might take that.
was the gist of the Alderson "issue", not his involvement in the search.
Quote:
But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
How has this been proven "wrong"? If anything we are left wondering WHY are so many candidates disinterested in a promotion (and a likely substantial raise)?
And ruthless/cunning as Cohen is blindly taking advice from Chris Christie or frankly anyone for that matter. There are probably specific aspects or contacts Christie may have that a reporter is latching on to. Regardless of your opinion on him, Cohen is a known entity from a business standpoint. He is highly demanding, wants incredibly smart people, and wants people that are going to do things in a certain way. That isn’t for everyone and we shouldn’t IMO be alarmed that some random individual who we never heard of before today was turned off by it. I trust the guys ability to build out an org more than alderson and these all seem like positive developments.
And ruthless/cunning as Cohen is blindly taking advice from Chris Christie or frankly anyone for that matter. There are probably specific aspects or contacts Christie may have that a reporter is latching on to. Regardless of your opinion on him, Cohen is a known entity from a business standpoint. He is highly demanding, wants incredibly smart people, and wants people that are going to do things in a certain way. That isn’t for everyone and we shouldn’t IMO be alarmed that some random individual who we never heard of before today was turned off by it. I trust the guys ability to build out an org more than alderson and these all seem like positive developments.
You don't find it at all troubling/unusual the amount of candidates that have passed? Again the "big 3"... had their own situations but when GM's (or lower in Bendix case) pull their names when they have no path to run the franchise, that's a red flag. Not sure how that can be spun any other way. Mozeliak has essentially run the Cardinals for going on 15 years, a guy like Girsch is likely NEVER running that team, and even he passes? Very strange.
heard of and had knowledge of 100% of the candidates the Mets have spoken to with Peter Bendix being a name I was only aware of after Neander was promoted. These other names are all GM's of other teams, why wouldn't they be known? These aren't "deep dives".
that cohen's a loose cannon cutting Sandy out of the search in favor of chris christie and his son (deesha's article based on "a source familiar with the situation")
or that Sandy is trying to create an Alderson dynasty in the met front office and scaring people off? (last week's article that was based on "an industry source" if I remember right)
we can all argue about a lot of things but so far the list of candidates they've gone after is exactly the list we'd all want. Do we think they aren't trying to get all of these guys they are...trying to get?
the result is all that matters and the result is not in yet. most if not all of the loosely sourced external reports of palace intrigue is from those looking to create the exact reaction lolmets twitter predictably contributes.
was the gist of the Alderson "issue", not his involvement in the search.
Quote:
But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
How has this been proven "wrong"? If anything we are left wondering WHY are so many candidates disinterested in a promotion (and a likely substantial raise)?
At least 2 of the candidates received promotions and likely substantial raises (Gomes + Arnold).
And they received those bumps without having to interview for a position they may not have ended up getting.
Good organizations go to great lengths to keep good talent and putting them in positions between a bird in a hand (promotion/raise) and 2 in the bush (interviewing for a bigger promotion/bigger raise) is a pretty common tactic.
Mike Girsch GM of the Cardinals since 2017
Matt Arnold GM of the Brewers since 2019
Scott Harris GM of the Giants since 2019
David Stearns (goes without saying)
Billy Beane (goes without saying)
Theo Epstein (goes without saying)
Brandon Gomes (admittedly a lesser "known" name, assistant GM of the Dodgers since 2019
Peter Bendix
So who exactly are these names fans wouldn't normally know?
Girsch is blocked
Arnold is blocked
Stearns is the head man
Beane is the head man
Epstein is... well Epstein
Gomes is blocked (he was blocked by the Dodgers so wasn't a true option)
Bendix (is blocked)
Harris is blocked
It's pretty odd to see 2nd bananas all pass like this (admittedly we don't know the Arnold situation with true clarity)
did not and could not receive a promotion. He was the GM, the promotion would be to Stearns job. Only the Mets (or another team) could have offered him a "promotion". That's the point.
how about Bendix? Girsch? Harris? We can make excuses for each and every candidate but 2nd and 3rd bananas all passing is not the norm. Not when they have young bosses aka no chance they will be running those teams any time soon.
Mike Girsch GM of the Cardinals since 2017
Matt Arnold GM of the Brewers since 2019
Scott Harris GM of the Giants since 2019
David Stearns (goes without saying)
Billy Beane (goes without saying)
Theo Epstein (goes without saying)
Brandon Gomes (admittedly a lesser "known" name, assistant GM of the Dodgers since 2019
Peter Bendix
So who exactly are these names fans wouldn't normally know?
Girsch is blocked
Arnold is blocked
Stearns is the head man
Beane is the head man
Epstein is... well Epstein
Gomes is blocked (he was blocked by the Dodgers so wasn't a true option)
Bendix (is blocked)
Harris is blocked
It's pretty odd to see 2nd bananas all pass like this (admittedly we don't know the Arnold situation with true clarity)
Dan if you asked the average fan at any pro game in any sport I can almost guarantee they couldn't name 5 GM's in their league, 5 prospects in their system, or 5 team staffers beyond whoever their head coach/manager is.
The couple hundred/maybe thousand of us who pay close attention to these things are in the extreme minority.
of the Rays model is knowing they will lose their FO talent
Friedman left for LA
Click went to Houston (despite the cheating stuff)
Bloom left for Boston
Arnold left for Milwaukee
Why is this suddenly "well the Rays likely gave him a raise" for Bendix as if this is what is generally what happens? It's really not. There is some sort of stink around the Mets right now. It's a far less appealing job than it should be. Why? Everybody is wondering that right now.
how about Bendix? Girsch? Harris? We can make excuses for each and every candidate but 2nd and 3rd bananas all passing is not the norm. Not when they have young bosses aka no chance they will be running those teams any time soon.
we don't know what conversations were had with any of them - but if they are the goods I'd bet their teams made attempts to keep them. if you want someone a team isn't fighting to keep there's a good chance your getting art howe'd.
a lot of what we see with these searches is standard business practice it's just playing out publicly.
none of that excuses cohen from his duty which is to get the position filled at whatever cost necessary to get a quality hire. can't we wait to see who they actually hire before believing the GM is going to be chosen in a trial by combat between house christie and house alderson?
"The Mets have already been turned down by a handful of targets in their search for a new baseball operations head. Each of Theo Epstein, Billy Beane, David Stearns, Matt Arnold, Scott Harris and Brandon Gomes had been raised as potential candidates only to later be ruled out of consideration.
Cardinals general manager Michael Girsch can be added to that list, as Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports (Twitter link) that New York reached out to the Cards for permission to speak with him last week. Girsch, however, declined to pursue the opportunity, electing to remain in St. Louis instead."
and then towards the bottom
"Dodgers senior vice president Josh Byrnes — a former GM with the Diamondbacks and Padres — has previously been mentioned as one candidate the Mets were discussing internally."
Everyone is wondering this, not everyone is conspiracy theorizing it
It's a far less appealing job than it should be. Why? Everybody is wondering that right now.
to some it has been less appealing than we would hope/want.
others got blocked by their current teams.
others got promoted/incentivized by their current teams to not interview.
each situation has i'm sure had it's own set of circumstances but the process isn't over yet. they seem to be intent on bringing in highly regarded executives and i expect at some point one of them will take the money.
big on Martino, he claimed earlier they only have one name remaining on their POBO list.
and he's been claiming for days they may shift the search to a GM and not a POBO. since the real big names passed i've said I don't really care who they get or what the title is - just bring in a really smart up and coming mind. not a retread. and not an experiment like bvw.
What will be interesting is the lengths they go to sell Mr. X as their top choice etc. Seems close to impossible to do at this point but teams almost have to.
Steven A. Cohen: Owner, Chairman and CEO
Alexandra M. Cohen: Owner & President, Amazin' Mets Foundation
Andrew B. Cohen: Vice Chairman
Fred Wilpon: Chairman Emeritus
Jeanne Melino: Board of Directors
Chris Christie: Board of Directors
What will be interesting is the lengths they go to sell Mr. X as their top choice etc. Seems close to impossible to do at this point but teams almost have to.
Everyone knows Theo and Beane were the top choices and I don't think anyone (including the Mets) will try to imply they like whoever they end up with more than those guys.
It also won't be too hard to dismiss anyone they haven't spoken to.
Id imagine they will likely claim that out of the set of people who they were able to interview, person X was the best person for the job.
And the only thing that will matter is if person X is the right person for the job. We will im sure do our best to evaluate person X but the reality is none of these guys except Theo were risk free.
How big of a deal this is. We have zero idea of what occurred in those interviews or whether Cohen would have even been interested after meeting with him. Sure I wish the optics on this were better and who knows I may end up being disappointed but I am not willing to simply say someone is a bad hire because of allegations coming out of xyz camp. Once again everyone’s concern was that alderson was too involved. That’s clearly not the case here and reality is we are going to sink or swim with Cohen. So I will trust his judgement since we have no other option.
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino @martinonyc
33m
In Mets exec search, Sandy Alderson is currently vetting candidates for Steve Cohen. He’ll make some permission requests and the process will continue.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
21m
Brian Sabean has not been on Mets radar during this search.
so far the list + permission requests have been for all the top guys we'd want. hopefully the list is longer than we know and Cohen can close the deal on one of them. I for one am glad they aren't deviating and panicking to trying to sell a name that doesn't fit what they are looking for (like Sabean - although I will admit he's an accomplished and experienced exec who probably doesn't actually qualify as a retread).
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
I care. Both of Arnold's previous stops were notably collaborative efforts. That's the environment he's coming from.
""Matt is going to be the sole assistant general manager. We're really going to run the baseball operations group as a partnership," said Stearns, who is in his second full week on the job."
Friedman was then quick to follow, and moved to a President role that oversaw the organization as a whole, hiring a full time GM out of the Athletics front office in Farhan Zaidi.
The Rays then adopted the same front office structure, moving Matt Silverman into a President role but did not install a General Manager. Those duties are presumably shared between Silverman and his two VPs of Baseball Operations, Neander and Bloom.
Prior to the promotions, Bloom and Neander were both Directors of Operations. Bloom served in a management position over player development, scouting, and contracts, while Neander focused on player personnel, as well as the team's research and development. As VPs, it is presumed they continue those duties but with more significance.
So Arnold very much is used to working within a team. GM hire is going to be an important one for him. Rodriguez would be a very nice addition.
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
Quote:
Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
You mean an American, in heavily Latino market in a position very few people of color have ever had a chance? Again, his resume speaks for itself. A fluent Spanish speaker born in Puerto Rico is a net plus.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
I'd argue the previous Sandy regime or Brodie etc was far less collaborative. Brodie's FO was a hedge poge of random (seemingly Wilpon) hires. Omar Minaya, Baird, John Ricco, Adam Guttridge, Jared Banner
Guttridge for example had never even been employed full-time by an MLB team
In his first gig as a general manager, Stearns is running the show at One Brewers Way. But he treats Arnold more as a work partner than a subordinate, which was the understanding from the very beginning.
Much like Stearns in his previous stops, Arnold had his fingers in many pies with the Rays. He participated in player evaluations, contract negotiations, player development, medical matters, foreign and domestic scouting, and the ever-expanding area of analytics.
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
Grooming Ricco? Ricco has been here for almost 20 years now. I'm sure he's fine at whatever he does but this will be his 18th season with the Mets. JP Ricciardi had essentially a part-time role (he didn't even move to NY, he stayed in Boston during his entire time with the Mets). Tramuta/Tanous were not "decision makers" under Sandy, Tanous wasn't even promoted to head of scouting until 2017.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
Quote:
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers HAVE lost some of their best. In fact, ex-Dodgers FO members are the GM’s for the Giants/Braves. Jeff Kingston was considered for the Angels and Phillies jobs last year, didn’t get them but still was considered.
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers also are very smart. By not naming a GM they can use that slot to protect somebody they don’t want to lose (looks to be the case with Gomes)
Quote:
In comment 15430279 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Porter got fired just 6 weeks after he was hired and just a few weeks before ST - once that happened who was supposed to continue recruiting to make those hires? The interim GM who didn't even know if he was going to stick around?
The porter situation was like a stick of dynamite going off in the front office - and after it did the priority had to be getting through the season and leave the decision on how to restructure the org until after the season. Maybe scott stepped up and earned that job. Or maybe they needed a whole new search (which they did). they had to finalize a roster that wasn't yet set. Then they had to extend Lindor. In-season is never a time with a lot of FO movement in any sport - and rightfully they have said they want the new hires to be able to make decisions.
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
Quote:
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
so if Arnold/his agent isn't responding to comment, that would seem to imply the initial source is not his camp. So then likely either NYM or MIL. And we know Martino gets a lot of info straight from the Mets.
So either Puma is way over his skis with some bs, which is possible. maybe Arnold's agent looking for leverage?
or Puma is right and the mets have somehow made an offer despite not yet having explicit permission. if there's language in Arnold's deal that limits his ability to interview in some scenarios (like maybe a lateral move?) that also means that same language allows it in another scenario (like maybe a promotion?).
either way it appears that the mets are trying to pump the brakes. either because the initial reports were wrong or the initial reports were right but it's not a done deal yet.
Quote:
Quote:
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Martino 100% gets info directly from the mets and often presents that info from their point of view.
his info usually ends up being right though.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
It’s unclear if the Mets asked the Indians for permission to interview Chernoff and were turned down or that Chernoff decided not to interview. Chernoff is from New Jersey and grew up a Mets fan.
When the mets finally announced porter and talked about the search this seemed like the team they were referencing when they said they got blocked by a few teams they didn't expect to be blocked by.
GM Mike Chernoff staying with Cleveland Indians despite overtures from New York Mets - ( New Window )
Quote:
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
Quote:
In comment 15430375 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Right but read Martino's tweet re: Arnold. It sounds like there is language in his contract that does allow him to interview elsewhere within some stated limits.
This is just a guess by me but maybe he has it in his contract that he is allowed to interview for any promotions?
I mean, that would be a very obvious and fair thing to ask for in a contract.
if that's the case it is the piece of information that can tie together both Puma's report and Martino's report as both being accurate. The Mets made Arnold an offer he's allowed to get because of his contract, however they haven't asked for or been granted permission (which is nothing more than a dodge any way because they didn't have to because of his contract).
Or Puma is wrong.
Or Martino is wrong.
But I think Martino is right and I'm hoping Puma's not wrong.
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
if there's limiting language then there's also another side to that where contact is allowed under whatever conditions aren't limited.
like a limited NTC.
for an executive to get something like that in their contract the most logical thing to ask for would be allowance to interview for promotions. Or preferred locations or something like that. Arnold is another CA guy so I guess we need to hope the guy negotiated to get himself the right to be promoted.
Is it possible that the work stoppage is playing a part in this process? If there is a work stoppage, how does that affect the league's front offices? Obviously transactions and of course depending on the length, some of the season could be affected.
Is it possible we are still looking a year from now?
Are the Mets rushing a decision or could this be a fortunate event in only that it buys the Mets time. I know the counterpoint would be having someone in place as soon as business resumes. I admit I don't have a full understanding.
His tweet came before Martino’s. Didn’t you just question Mayer as a source to me last week anyway? 😅
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
if I knew that happened to my mentor/predecessor, you know what I'd ask for in my contract when I was promoted to GM?
Considering the Red Sox got 2 non-prospects for one of the best executives of the modern era I wouldn't worry about it ... too much.
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.
Quote:
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.
Eric,
There is flat out no "rule" that teams have to allow interviews even for promotions. Tom Haudricourt has covered the Brewers since 1985 and he said "it's unlikely the Brewers would block it" aka they can if they choose to.
aka no actual rule.
I'm confused, why would he put any language in his contract making it harder to leave? Martino's tweets are implying his ability to speak to other clubs is LIMITED by the specific language. That's the opposite of what you're suggesting so I'm very confused.
" Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point."
That's the complete opposite of "he saw what Stearns went through so he has language that helps him".
Mills
@MillManner
·
1h
“Matt Arnold’s name has some veracity… if he gets the [Mets job], it would not shock me.”
- @JeffPassan
on @TMKSESPN
aka no actual rule.
I know that and I said so above. You said:
In comment 15430353 DanMetroMan said:
and I replied that it was heavily suggested last year that exactly that happened to mets.
either way it doesn't matter. reposting what Martino said again:
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
the way this is phrased is deceptive. If he was under a typical MLB contract where there are no rules re: blocking, he'd have no ability to interview with other clubs.
it is a reverse negative, if there is specific language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs, that means there's also language in his contract that allows him to interview with other clubs under some set of specified conditions.
looking at the all that he's been through my best guess is that he got it in his contract that he's allowed to interview for promotions.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Brewers GM Matt Arnold is in the mix for a top Mets job. Unclear if he’s received an offer. @NYPost_Mets
on it
@injuryexpert
·
2h
Teams are not supposed to block promotions from team to team, but remember, there's still a contract involved. "Asking permission" is a courtesy. And yes, it's happened that things get blocked, even for promotions. Ask Dan Duquette.
that presumably means somewhere in that contract he has the ability to interview with other clubs.
or else what is that language limiting? why the need for any special language since the default in MLB is all contracts need permission.
limiting language would only be needed if the team was agreeing to carve out and scenarios where they would allow the person in question to interview. like a promotion, or a certain geography, or whatever.
if the guiding principle of MLB exec contracts is that they are ironclad at the owner's discretion like a player with a NTC, I read from Martino's tweet that there's some speculation that Arnold has a LNTC.
well apparently he included something.
and if I had seen my boss get blocked twice in the last 2 years, including just weeks earlier, I know what I would have held out for...
anything is possible - but whatever it is combined with the other rumors gives some hope. last year who knows what Arnold's contract status was pre-promotion. He clearly had some kind of leverage - and it may well have been from the mets sniffing around permission to interview him for gm.
Quote:
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
Cohen also needs to give him confidence he will stick with him for the long haul despite any pressure to make a change in bad times.
This appears accurate. Heyman says you need language included involving promotions or they don’t have to let you do so.
Quote:
He is a new GM so he very well may not have viewed his situation as having a tremendous amount of leverage so he may not have included a clause on interviewing for promotions. I would think any GM on their second or third contract would have that commitment.
This appears accurate. Heyman says you need language included involving promotions or they don’t have to let you do so.
this is basic to all contracts when there's no superseding rule (like a CBA or MLB rule) and why Martino's initial tweet was interesting because it implied there was some kind of language in Arnold's deal re: interviewing elsewhere.
that said everyone else has pulled their reporting back in the same direction as Martino so it appears that glimmer of hope wasn't anything more than that.
semi-unrelated but Martino also tweeted today the Mets were blocked on Gomes last year (presumably from interviewing for a promotion to GM). So I guess that's at least 1 of the examples they were citing last year when they mentioned they were blocked unexpectedly even for promotions.
Baseball should really clean up that rule but I'd bet against it. Owners don't generally like giving up any autonomous power.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Brewers GM Matt Arnold is in the mix for a top Mets job. Unclear if he’s received an offer. @NYPost_Mets
on it
Pulling for this hire. Arnold would be a solid choice. Looks like this is gaining some momentum as well with the media this morning.
Yup!!
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
Sources: The Mets have been given permission to talk to Brewers executive Matt Arnold.
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
Mayer with the exclusive….
So I remain confused as to why Sandy was kept on.
Fuck man. This process has been frustrating for the fans.
I find it hard to believe they would have asked for permission without knowing Arnold wanted to talk in the first place.
I don’t generally like conspiracy theories but that seems to have a been done in a way that maximizes making Cohen and the org look bad.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
Quote:
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
Eric,
Last time you mentioned him I looked him up. He's ineligible through 2022 (like Callaway) he's basically banned from baseball for now.
Quote:
Quote:
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The final line on Matt Arnold and Mets: Brewers did deny permission, Mets wondered if they would reconsider, it dragged out a while, they never talked.
honestly I'm ready to just go back to Porter. Is the guy a leper because he showed bad judgement and sent an unwanted dick pic?
if there's more than that by all means keep him away but if that's all there was he's a far cry from Mickey Callaway (who will be able to apply for reinstatement next year).
Eric,
Last time you mentioned him I looked him up. He's ineligible through 2022 (like Callaway) he's basically banned from baseball for now.
damn. guess that makes sense though. i hope cohen gets pissed at the other owners denying all these interviews and makes theo an obscene offer.
that's a terrific idea for a sitcom though.
hiring Theo is as close as you can get to buying a WS and that seems a pretty fair price if he delivers.
maybe an all guys school.
@mikemayer22
Folks, my previous tweet about Matt Arnold was wrong.
I apologize for for giving incorrect info.
More likely Tanous or Levin (if they stay in house).
@mikemayer22
Folks, my previous tweet about Matt Arnold was wrong.
I apologize for for giving incorrect info.
what was the previous tweet? that he took himself out of contention as opposed to the brewers denying?
Quote:
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
Folks, my previous tweet about Matt Arnold was wrong.
I apologize for for giving incorrect info.
what was the previous tweet? that he took himself out of contention as opposed to the brewers denying?
Yes. They the Brewers gave permission.
@WexlerRules
·
1h
Sandy came back, Omar came back… only one answer here @Jim_Duquette
part deux #Mets
Jim Duquette
@Jim_Duquette
·
Replying to
@WexlerRules
Lol
we don't know for sure if he is or isn't but that's one where Sandy had a firsthand relationship and I'm fairly confident Beane would grant permission. So either Owens feels burned from last year or the Mets didn't choose him for a reason.
Byrnes or Levine?
Link - ( New Window )
you didn't know Chris Christie's son was a huge proponent of Matt Arnold and Scott Harris?
save yourself the energy and don't take the clickbait Dan. if their "source familiar with the situation" was actually with the team, or anyone legitimately involved in MLB, they would have described them so.
Quote:
is what I'm referencing Link - ( New Window )
you didn't know Chris Christie's son was a huge proponent of Matt Arnold and Scott Harris?
save yourself the energy and don't take the clickbait Dan. if their "source familiar with the situation" was actually with the team, or anyone legitimately involved in MLB, they would have described them so.
Deesha Thosar hasn't exactly been known to be a rumor monger type. She's been by the book since covering them for NYDN which is why this is concerning.
Excellent point/question
Andrew Christie: Coordinator, Player Development Initiatives
Andrew Christie: Coordinator, Player Development Initiatives
From somebody who would know
"got promoted again recently too, he's now the "coordinator of player development initiatives" or something like that"
@OmarMinayaFan
·
2m
It's all been speculation and nonsense and outrage for clicks until @DeeshaThosar
's latest piece. Deesha is the best on the beat and I am genuinely concerned about who Cohen is getting advice from.
aren't interested in Sabean, for Sabean to be the hire and Cohen/Sandy state at the presser he was always their first choice"To be honest, we didn't think he was available"..
It’s nice that they are reaching out to the right people but troublesome that everyone is saying no.
Girsch, Theo, Bendix, Harris, Beane all said thanks but no thanks.
Arnold either was blocked or said no, Stearns blocked... yikes
Quote:
Girsch said no to joining the Mets. Unbelievable.
It’s nice that they are reaching out to the right people but troublesome that everyone is saying no.
agreed. I think a factor we need to consider with the type of hire they are most exploring (younger up and comers) is that a lot of them are complete unknowns to even 99% of MLB fans and probably like it that way. hitting the back pages of NY newspapers changes things and this job is a spotlight job.
not implying that they've done anything as nefarious, but everyone saw how quickly the spotlight exposed Porter and became a big deal. Would it have been as bad for him if he took a job in Seattle or remained in AZ? I kind of doubt it.
hard to blow someone without a track record away pre-interview. that'd be risky and borderline negligent no matter how well regarded they are. Theo or Beane sure.
if I were Cohen I'd be on the phone with Theo upping the equity, but I'd have been doing that 2 weeks ago also.
So I guess that leaves Cohen himself as the potential stumbling block for not wanting the job. I admit I am somewhat confused by that though.
Cohen may have a negative reputation in some circles but you're passing up a chance to run a team in the NY market with not unlimited, but very high monetary resources at your disposal. Perhaps I am overvaluing the attraction of that though.
So I guess that leaves Cohen himself as the potential stumbling block for not wanting the job. I admit I am somewhat confused by that though.
Cohen may have a negative reputation in some circles but you're passing up a chance to run a team in the NY market with not unlimited, but very high monetary resources at your disposal. Perhaps I am overvaluing the attraction of that though.
I think it's a double edged sword.
Some guys would probably be thrilled to have the chance to be a big swinging dick getting rich in NY.
Some probably value that they are already living some version of their dream life and don't want to uproot their families and mess that up. Remember execs don't move around as frequently as coaches/players do and aren't used to being in the media spotlight as much either.
It goes without saying they need to find the first type of guy who only cares about winning championships.
@thebs19
·
3m
Replying to
@rywatty88
and
@WexlerRules
Milw got Stearns to leave Houston + Arnold to leave TB.
LAD got Friedman to leave TB.
Sox got Bloom to leave TB.
Cubs got Theo to leave Boston and Hoyer to leave SD.
Braves got AA to leave LA.
Houston got Click to leave TB despite being in the middle of a huge scandal.
at the end of the day it's on Cohen to find someone willing to take his check. if it needs to be a bigger check so be it. i can't imagine he hasn't found himself in similar situations before attempting to secure highly sought after talent.
may want to contact (shhhh I'm not really Chris Christie)
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
How has this been proven "wrong"? If anything we are left wondering WHY are so many candidates disinterested in a promotion (and a likely substantial raise)?
You don't find it at all troubling/unusual the amount of candidates that have passed? Again the "big 3"... had their own situations but when GM's (or lower in Bendix case) pull their names when they have no path to run the franchise, that's a red flag. Not sure how that can be spun any other way. Mozeliak has essentially run the Cardinals for going on 15 years, a guy like Girsch is likely NEVER running that team, and even he passes? Very strange.
or that Sandy is trying to create an Alderson dynasty in the met front office and scaring people off? (last week's article that was based on "an industry source" if I remember right)
we can all argue about a lot of things but so far the list of candidates they've gone after is exactly the list we'd all want. Do we think they aren't trying to get all of these guys they are...trying to get?
the result is all that matters and the result is not in yet. most if not all of the loosely sourced external reports of palace intrigue is from those looking to create the exact reaction lolmets twitter predictably contributes.
Quote:
But there’s another potential issue lurking, regarding the curious timing of the promotion of Alderson’s son, Bryn, who along with Ian Levin was promoted to assistant general manager this summer when the Mets didn’t have a GM or president of baseball operations. Bryn, who joined the organization as a scout in late 2011, was previously scouting director.
Sandy Alderson has said his preference would be to transition fully to the business side. But there is skepticism within the industry that it would even be feasible, and some in the game have pointed out that Bryn is now in a high-ranking position on the baseball side regardless. The dynamic of having a high-powered father-son duo is a potentially concerning component for any new front-office hire, one that sources say has adversely come into play before in the Mets’ current organizational structure. Who, some wonder, would really hold the power to make organizational decisions?
Alderson declined to discuss specifics of the president of baseball operations search with The Athletic on Tuesday.
Asked specifically about potential concerns of the autonomy of a future front-office hire with his son in a high-ranking position, he said: “That will not be an issue, I can assure you.”
How has this been proven "wrong"? If anything we are left wondering WHY are so many candidates disinterested in a promotion (and a likely substantial raise)?
At least 2 of the candidates received promotions and likely substantial raises (Gomes + Arnold).
And they received those bumps without having to interview for a position they may not have ended up getting.
Good organizations go to great lengths to keep good talent and putting them in positions between a bird in a hand (promotion/raise) and 2 in the bush (interviewing for a bigger promotion/bigger raise) is a pretty common tactic.
Matt Arnold GM of the Brewers since 2019
Scott Harris GM of the Giants since 2019
David Stearns (goes without saying)
Billy Beane (goes without saying)
Theo Epstein (goes without saying)
Brandon Gomes (admittedly a lesser "known" name, assistant GM of the Dodgers since 2019
Peter Bendix
So who exactly are these names fans wouldn't normally know?
Girsch is blocked
Arnold is blocked
Stearns is the head man
Beane is the head man
Epstein is... well Epstein
Gomes is blocked (he was blocked by the Dodgers so wasn't a true option)
Bendix (is blocked)
Harris is blocked
It's pretty odd to see 2nd bananas all pass like this (admittedly we don't know the Arnold situation with true clarity)
Matt Arnold GM of the Brewers since 2019
Scott Harris GM of the Giants since 2019
David Stearns (goes without saying)
Billy Beane (goes without saying)
Theo Epstein (goes without saying)
Brandon Gomes (admittedly a lesser "known" name, assistant GM of the Dodgers since 2019
Peter Bendix
So who exactly are these names fans wouldn't normally know?
Girsch is blocked
Arnold is blocked
Stearns is the head man
Beane is the head man
Epstein is... well Epstein
Gomes is blocked (he was blocked by the Dodgers so wasn't a true option)
Bendix (is blocked)
Harris is blocked
It's pretty odd to see 2nd bananas all pass like this (admittedly we don't know the Arnold situation with true clarity)
Dan if you asked the average fan at any pro game in any sport I can almost guarantee they couldn't name 5 GM's in their league, 5 prospects in their system, or 5 team staffers beyond whoever their head coach/manager is.
The couple hundred/maybe thousand of us who pay close attention to these things are in the extreme minority.
Friedman left for LA
Click went to Houston (despite the cheating stuff)
Bloom left for Boston
Arnold left for Milwaukee
Why is this suddenly "well the Rays likely gave him a raise" for Bendix as if this is what is generally what happens? It's really not. There is some sort of stink around the Mets right now. It's a far less appealing job than it should be. Why? Everybody is wondering that right now.
we don't know what conversations were had with any of them - but if they are the goods I'd bet their teams made attempts to keep them. if you want someone a team isn't fighting to keep there's a good chance your getting art howe'd.
a lot of what we see with these searches is standard business practice it's just playing out publicly.
none of that excuses cohen from his duty which is to get the position filled at whatever cost necessary to get a quality hire. can't we wait to see who they actually hire before believing the GM is going to be chosen in a trial by combat between house christie and house alderson?
"The Mets have already been turned down by a handful of targets in their search for a new baseball operations head. Each of Theo Epstein, Billy Beane, David Stearns, Matt Arnold, Scott Harris and Brandon Gomes had been raised as potential candidates only to later be ruled out of consideration.
Cardinals general manager Michael Girsch can be added to that list, as Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports (Twitter link) that New York reached out to the Cards for permission to speak with him last week. Girsch, however, declined to pursue the opportunity, electing to remain in St. Louis instead."
and then towards the bottom
"Dodgers senior vice president Josh Byrnes — a former GM with the Diamondbacks and Padres — has previously been mentioned as one candidate the Mets were discussing internally."
to some it has been less appealing than we would hope/want.
others got blocked by their current teams.
others got promoted/incentivized by their current teams to not interview.
each situation has i'm sure had it's own set of circumstances but the process isn't over yet. they seem to be intent on bringing in highly regarded executives and i expect at some point one of them will take the money.
and he's been claiming for days they may shift the search to a GM and not a POBO. since the real big names passed i've said I don't really care who they get or what the title is - just bring in a really smart up and coming mind. not a retread. and not an experiment like bvw.
OWNERSHIP
Steven A. Cohen: Owner, Chairman and CEO
Alexandra M. Cohen: Owner & President, Amazin' Mets Foundation
Andrew B. Cohen: Vice Chairman
Fred Wilpon: Chairman Emeritus
Jeanne Melino: Board of Directors
Chris Christie: Board of Directors
Everyone knows Theo and Beane were the top choices and I don't think anyone (including the Mets) will try to imply they like whoever they end up with more than those guys.
It also won't be too hard to dismiss anyone they haven't spoken to.
Id imagine they will likely claim that out of the set of people who they were able to interview, person X was the best person for the job.
And the only thing that will matter is if person X is the right person for the job. We will im sure do our best to evaluate person X but the reality is none of these guys except Theo were risk free.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
33m
In Mets exec search, Sandy Alderson is currently vetting candidates for Steve Cohen. He’ll make some permission requests and the process will continue.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
21m
Brian Sabean has not been on Mets radar during this search.
so far the list + permission requests have been for all the top guys we'd want. hopefully the list is longer than we know and Cohen can close the deal on one of them. I for one am glad they aren't deviating and panicking to trying to sell a name that doesn't fit what they are looking for (like Sabean - although I will admit he's an accomplished and experienced exec who probably doesn't actually qualify as a retread).