if it's not him I expect it will be someone like him, but there is a lot to like on his resume. Spent 9 years with Friedman in Tampa. Would be a really interesting hire.
the 3 big names he was arguably (or in line) with the best case scenario. Puma suggested he may tap a GM from the Rays. Bendix reportedly said he's staying, so Carlos Rodriguez would be the obvious "get".
the PBO presumably will set the vision and structure so whoever he trusts is fine by me.
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
I care. Both of Arnold's previous stops were notably collaborative efforts. That's the environment he's coming from.
""Matt is going to be the sole assistant general manager. We're really going to run the baseball operations group as a partnership," said Stearns, who is in his second full week on the job."
Friedman was then quick to follow, and moved to a President role that oversaw the organization as a whole, hiring a full time GM out of the Athletics front office in Farhan Zaidi.
The Rays then adopted the same front office structure, moving Matt Silverman into a President role but did not install a General Manager. Those duties are presumably shared between Silverman and his two VPs of Baseball Operations, Neander and Bloom.
Prior to the promotions, Bloom and Neander were both Directors of Operations. Bloom served in a management position over player development, scouting, and contracts, while Neander focused on player personnel, as well as the team's research and development. As VPs, it is presumed they continue those duties but with more significance.
So Arnold very much is used to working within a team. GM hire is going to be an important one for him. Rodriguez would be a very nice addition.
Carlos Rodriguez was the runner-up for the Cubs GM spot so presumably, it sounds like he's looking to become a big league GM and he worked with Arnold with the Rays.
Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
of course GM hire is important and of course these guys work as teams
Friedman works as a team.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
You mean an American, in heavily Latino market in a position very few people of color have ever had a chance? Again, his resume speaks for itself. A fluent Spanish speaker born in Puerto Rico is a net plus.
RE: of course GM hire is important and of course these guys work as teams
Friedman works as a team.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
I'd argue the previous Sandy regime or Brodie etc was far less collaborative. Brodie's FO was a hedge poge of random (seemingly Wilpon) hires. Omar Minaya, Baird, John Ricco, Adam Guttridge, Jared Banner
Guttridge for example had never even been employed full-time by an MLB team
like Guttridge was one and done (no longer in baseball, Banner is with the Cubs now "special projects" VP. Omar is an ambassador with the Mets. Not exactly a dream team.
"He is working plenty hard," said Stearns. "Trust me on that. He's as hard a worker as I've been around and I've been around some really good ones, so that's saying something."
In his first gig as a general manager, Stearns is running the show at One Brewers Way. But he treats Arnold more as a work partner than a subordinate, which was the understanding from the very beginning.
Much like Stearns in his previous stops, Arnold had his fingers in many pies with the Rays. He participated in player evaluations, contract negotiations, player development, medical matters, foreign and domestic scouting, and the ever-expanding area of analytics.
but Sandy's wasn't - he had Depo/JP, was for a time grooming Ricco, and also had Tramuta/Tanous continually growing their titles and taking more direct ownership of the scouting side (they did a lot more of the draft PR stuff, etc).
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
but Sandy's wasn't - he had Depo/JP, was for a time grooming Ricco, and also had Tramuta/Tanous continually growing their titles and taking more direct ownership of the scouting side (they did a lot more of the draft PR stuff, etc).
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
Grooming Ricco? Ricco has been here for almost 20 years now. I'm sure he's fine at whatever he does but this will be his 18th season with the Mets. JP Ricciardi had essentially a part-time role (he didn't even move to NY, he stayed in Boston during his entire time with the Mets). Tramuta/Tanous were not "decision makers" under Sandy, Tanous wasn't even promoted to head of scouting until 2017.
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers HAVE lost some of their best. In fact, ex-Dodgers FO members are the GM’s for the Giants/Braves. Jeff Kingston was considered for the Angels and Phillies jobs last year, didn’t get them but still was considered.
Friedman has obviously produced some of the best young execs in baseball but don’t you think the best guys would already have departed Dodgers and been hired by someone else?
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers also are very smart. By not naming a GM they can use that slot to protect somebody they don’t want to lose (looks to be the case with Gomes)
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Porter got fired just 6 weeks after he was hired and just a few weeks before ST - once that happened who was supposed to continue recruiting to make those hires? The interim GM who didn't even know if he was going to stick around?
The porter situation was like a stick of dynamite going off in the front office - and after it did the priority had to be getting through the season and leave the decision on how to restructure the org until after the season. Maybe scott stepped up and earned that job. Or maybe they needed a whole new search (which they did). they had to finalize a roster that wasn't yet set. Then they had to extend Lindor. In-season is never a time with a lot of FO movement in any sport - and rightfully they have said they want the new hires to be able to make decisions.
Will never know what Sandy would have allowed Porter to do but we do know it was reported Sandy made the final call on trades when it came to Scott. Which either means that Sandy was always going to “be in charge” or he didn’t trust Scott to do so.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
so if Arnold/his agent isn't responding to comment, that would seem to imply the initial source is not his camp. So then likely either NYM or MIL. And we know Martino gets a lot of info straight from the Mets.
So either Puma is way over his skis with some bs, which is possible. maybe Arnold's agent looking for leverage?
or Puma is right and the mets have somehow made an offer despite not yet having explicit permission. if there's language in Arnold's deal that limits his ability to interview in some scenarios (like maybe a lateral move?) that also means that same language allows it in another scenario (like maybe a promotion?).
either way it appears that the mets are trying to pump the brakes. either because the initial reports were wrong or the initial reports were right but it's not a done deal yet.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Martino 100% gets info directly from the mets and often presents that info from their point of view.
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
pretty sure the speculation last year was that they got blocked
MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reported that Chernoff was headed for a formal interview with the Mets earlier in the week and was the top candidate to help owner Steve Cohen and Sandy Alderson build a new front office. On Thursday, however, Cohen in responding to a Tweet from a fan asking if Chernoff was scheduled for an interview, Tweeted, “Not that I’m aware of. Wrong, again.”
It’s unclear if the Mets asked the Indians for permission to interview Chernoff and were turned down or that Chernoff decided not to interview. Chernoff is from New Jersey and grew up a Mets fan.
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Wife didn’t want to move. I can state that for a “fact” as I know somebody who knows them. Cleveland is quite good about letting their guys move on him, she (his wife) didn’t love the idea of moving their children to NY/NJ
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
As most of us know, is from the area and some speculation was he didn’t love the idea of being in the same market as WFAN (his dad, who has since retired) but I heard directly from people who would know that it came (mostly) down to his children.
Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Right but read Martino's tweet re: Arnold. It sounds like there is language in his contract that does allow him to interview elsewhere within some stated limits.
This is just a guess by me but maybe he has it in his contract that he is allowed to interview for any promotions?
I mean, that would be a very obvious and fair thing to ask for in a contract.
if that's the case it is the piece of information that can tie together both Puma's report and Martino's report as both being accurate. The Mets made Arnold an offer he's allowed to get because of his contract, however they haven't asked for or been granted permission (which is nothing more than a dodge any way because they didn't have to because of his contract).
Or Puma is wrong.
Or Martino is wrong.
But I think Martino is right and I'm hoping Puma's not wrong.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
if there's limiting language then there's also another side to that where contact is allowed under whatever conditions aren't limited.
like a limited NTC.
for an executive to get something like that in their contract the most logical thing to ask for would be allowance to interview for promotions. Or preferred locations or something like that. Arnold is another CA guy so I guess we need to hope the guy negotiated to get himself the right to be promoted.
.....or anyone else. I am as anxious as any Met fan to fill this position. A year ago, I was invigorated by Cohen's ownership and now it seems (whether it is a media based narrative), the aesthetics look as if this job is undesirable. I am not arguing for or against that.
Is it possible that the work stoppage is playing a part in this process? If there is a work stoppage, how does that affect the league's front offices? Obviously transactions and of course depending on the length, some of the season could be affected.
Is it possible we are still looking a year from now?
Can’t really answer your question other than from the people I’ve spoke to it would be “stunning” if there isn’t a work stoppage. Could they figure it out without missing games? Sure but it seems like there is no realistic way there is a deal before the deadline
If Mayer is right (he said mets are optimistic they get Arnold)
Are the Mets rushing a decision or could this be a fortunate event in only that it buys the Mets time. I know the counterpoint would be having someone in place as soon as business resumes. I admit I don't have a full understanding.
I don’t think work stoppage is the problem for nym
Can’t verify this nor am I a Brewers historian but somebody on twitter claimed the brewers blocked Stearns from interviewing for the Giants POBO job back when he was GM
I trust Martino's info a lot more because he has a much lengthier track record. I said "if he's right" for a reason.
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
Can’t verify this nor am I a Brewers historian but somebody on twitter claimed the brewers blocked Stearns from interviewing for the Giants POBO job back when he was GM
if I knew that happened to my mentor/predecessor, you know what I'd ask for in my contract when I was promoted to GM?
Could MIL be playing hardball to get some kind of comp here?
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
RE: Could MIL be playing hardball to get some kind of comp here?
Stearns was in fact blocked in 2018, he was later promoted to both POBO and GM. There is no "rule" stopping the Brewers from doing this, but it would be dirty because in Stearns case he had a potential promotion (which he got), Arnold would not. But again, it's "allowed".
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
hopefully Cohen closes the deal here. This is where the search is on him. $ talks BS walks.
I care. Both of Arnold's previous stops were notably collaborative efforts. That's the environment he's coming from.
""Matt is going to be the sole assistant general manager. We're really going to run the baseball operations group as a partnership," said Stearns, who is in his second full week on the job."
Friedman was then quick to follow, and moved to a President role that oversaw the organization as a whole, hiring a full time GM out of the Athletics front office in Farhan Zaidi.
The Rays then adopted the same front office structure, moving Matt Silverman into a President role but did not install a General Manager. Those duties are presumably shared between Silverman and his two VPs of Baseball Operations, Neander and Bloom.
Prior to the promotions, Bloom and Neander were both Directors of Operations. Bloom served in a management position over player development, scouting, and contracts, while Neander focused on player personnel, as well as the team's research and development. As VPs, it is presumed they continue those duties but with more significance.
So Arnold very much is used to working within a team. GM hire is going to be an important one for him. Rodriguez would be a very nice addition.
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
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Rodriguez is beyond qualified, but lets face it, a Puerto Rican GM in the NY market would be a very good thing
A quality GM would be a very good thing. Set this team on a path of sustained success. I don't care what color you are or ethnic heritage, just do that.
You mean an American, in heavily Latino market in a position very few people of color have ever had a chance? Again, his resume speaks for itself. A fluent Spanish speaker born in Puerto Rico is a net plus.
Zaidi works as a team.
Neander works as a team.
i'm just saying if they get the right PBO we have to just trust whoever they want to come over. as you've said it's highly likely it's someone they've worked with before and won't just be another highly thought of executive from a different org who they don't have a prior relationship with. The guys you think are homeruns are in some cases people who even fans following the search have never heard of - and if we are being honest with ourselves guys who in some cases barely have a bio on wikipedia.
I'd argue the previous Sandy regime or Brodie etc was far less collaborative. Brodie's FO was a hedge poge of random (seemingly Wilpon) hires. Omar Minaya, Baird, John Ricco, Adam Guttridge, Jared Banner
Guttridge for example had never even been employed full-time by an MLB team
In his first gig as a general manager, Stearns is running the show at One Brewers Way. But he treats Arnold more as a work partner than a subordinate, which was the understanding from the very beginning.
Much like Stearns in his previous stops, Arnold had his fingers in many pies with the Rays. He participated in player evaluations, contract negotiations, player development, medical matters, foreign and domestic scouting, and the ever-expanding area of analytics.
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
and last year Porter's was starting to get built out with the hires he made from both Boston and LA.
Cohen has been clear from day 1 that he wanted to emulate the LAD model and that's what they were in progress on last year until Porter's allegations came out.
Grooming Ricco? Ricco has been here for almost 20 years now. I'm sure he's fine at whatever he does but this will be his 18th season with the Mets. JP Ricciardi had essentially a part-time role (he didn't even move to NY, he stayed in Boston during his entire time with the Mets). Tramuta/Tanous were not "decision makers" under Sandy, Tanous wasn't even promoted to head of scouting until 2017.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
Quote:
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers HAVE lost some of their best. In fact, ex-Dodgers FO members are the GM’s for the Giants/Braves. Jeff Kingston was considered for the Angels and Phillies jobs last year, didn’t get them but still was considered.
Typical of the Mets to be late to the party.
The Dodgers also are very smart. By not naming a GM they can use that slot to protect somebody they don’t want to lose (looks to be the case with Gomes)
Quote:
In comment 15430279 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
of this moment the Mets FO has almost exclusively(Sandy's obviously had a break) with the Mets for a very long time. Tramuta, Ricco, Tanous, Bryn Alderson and Sandy. Whether these guys are good at their jobs or not is really besides the point, they haven't really "added" anybody in quite a while. Yes, Porter/Scott were supposed to be that, but they are not. So to emulate the Dodgers they will need to hire a few good baseball people.
well gee, they should run a search for a new PBO and Gm then...
The point is they also didn’t beef up the analytics department much last off-season, nor the scouting. That’s what they aspire to do but you can’t put that all on Porter and dick pics.
Porter got fired just 6 weeks after he was hired and just a few weeks before ST - once that happened who was supposed to continue recruiting to make those hires? The interim GM who didn't even know if he was going to stick around?
The porter situation was like a stick of dynamite going off in the front office - and after it did the priority had to be getting through the season and leave the decision on how to restructure the org until after the season. Maybe scott stepped up and earned that job. Or maybe they needed a whole new search (which they did). they had to finalize a roster that wasn't yet set. Then they had to extend Lindor. In-season is never a time with a lot of FO movement in any sport - and rightfully they have said they want the new hires to be able to make decisions.
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
Quote:
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
so if Arnold/his agent isn't responding to comment, that would seem to imply the initial source is not his camp. So then likely either NYM or MIL. And we know Martino gets a lot of info straight from the Mets.
So either Puma is way over his skis with some bs, which is possible. maybe Arnold's agent looking for leverage?
or Puma is right and the mets have somehow made an offer despite not yet having explicit permission. if there's language in Arnold's deal that limits his ability to interview in some scenarios (like maybe a lateral move?) that also means that same language allows it in another scenario (like maybe a promotion?).
either way it appears that the mets are trying to pump the brakes. either because the initial reports were wrong or the initial reports were right but it's not a done deal yet.
Quote:
Quote:
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
The Mets have requested, but have not received, permission to speak to Brewers GM Matt Arnold, according to multiple league sources. Not totally dead but no permission.
I do in part wonder if this is the mets just trying to clamp down on trying to finalize something.
the timing of reports coming out that they made 1 guy an offer a day after a bunch of others bowed out for various reasons lines up with how things usually go.
perhaps they already know Milwaukee will allow if they agree to a deal but haven't made the formal ask yet so this is a way they can act like it's not imminent without lying?
So what you’re saying is..: the perception Martino is a shill… is founded? Lol
Martino 100% gets info directly from the mets and often presents that info from their point of view.
his info usually ends up being right though.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
It’s unclear if the Mets asked the Indians for permission to interview Chernoff and were turned down or that Chernoff decided not to interview. Chernoff is from New Jersey and grew up a Mets fan.
When the mets finally announced porter and talked about the search this seemed like the team they were referencing when they said they got blocked by a few teams they didn't expect to be blocked by.
GM Mike Chernoff staying with Cleveland Indians despite overtures from New York Mets - ( New Window )
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Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
I believe that. This job is a very big life change for any of these guys and they are all already living some version of their dream life.
I think it was Rory who posted something along those lines last night and there's truth in it. They need to find not just a great baseball person but a great hire who can fit here. And when they find that guy Cohen needs to give him the offer he can't refuse.
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In comment 15430375 DanMetroMan said:
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Move is standard and would need permission. This wouldn’t be special language. It’s explicit.
im pretty sure even promotions in baseball aren't explicitly allowed though. it's always been more of a gentleman's agreement to not block a promotion, but teams can block if they want to. I think someone blocked them on a potential promotion last year (cleveland maybe with Chernoff?).
That’s my point. No special language would be necessary. Teams can block non-promotions and usually do. Promotions they usually allow. Cleveland didn’t block Chernoff
Right but read Martino's tweet re: Arnold. It sounds like there is language in his contract that does allow him to interview elsewhere within some stated limits.
This is just a guess by me but maybe he has it in his contract that he is allowed to interview for any promotions?
I mean, that would be a very obvious and fair thing to ask for in a contract.
if that's the case it is the piece of information that can tie together both Puma's report and Martino's report as both being accurate. The Mets made Arnold an offer he's allowed to get because of his contract, however they haven't asked for or been granted permission (which is nothing more than a dodge any way because they didn't have to because of his contract).
Or Puma is wrong.
Or Martino is wrong.
But I think Martino is right and I'm hoping Puma's not wrong.
@martinonyc
The Mets need permission to speak to Arnold because he is under contract with another club. Also, there is a belief that Arnold has language in his contract that limits his ability to interview with other clubs. Arnold did not respond to a request to fact check that last point.
if there's limiting language then there's also another side to that where contact is allowed under whatever conditions aren't limited.
like a limited NTC.
for an executive to get something like that in their contract the most logical thing to ask for would be allowance to interview for promotions. Or preferred locations or something like that. Arnold is another CA guy so I guess we need to hope the guy negotiated to get himself the right to be promoted.
Is it possible that the work stoppage is playing a part in this process? If there is a work stoppage, how does that affect the league's front offices? Obviously transactions and of course depending on the length, some of the season could be affected.
Is it possible we are still looking a year from now?
Are the Mets rushing a decision or could this be a fortunate event in only that it buys the Mets time. I know the counterpoint would be having someone in place as soon as business resumes. I admit I don't have a full understanding.
His tweet came before Martino’s. Didn’t you just question Mayer as a source to me last week anyway? 😅
it shouldn't matter whether what he wrote was before or after Martino's post though - if he has it right from a real source the mets could still be optimistic they are getting him despite what Martino posted (who was also clear to say Arnold could happen).
the real question is how can a team who "hasn't requested permission" be "optimistic" by one account and actually made an offer by another presumably different source?
(my answer to that question is the theory above, that requesting permission is unnecessary).
net-net I think there's a negotiation in progress with Arnold and I hope for all of our sakes it concludes swiftly.
if I knew that happened to my mentor/predecessor, you know what I'd ask for in my contract when I was promoted to GM?
Considering the Red Sox got 2 non-prospects for one of the best executives of the modern era I wouldn't worry about it ... too much.
Arnold was there when Stearns got blocked in 2018 and he got promoted to GM last year after Stearns got blocked from the Mets. He likely got promoted in advance of getting blocked from being interviewed as a GM candidate.
I'd bet a lot the language in his contract Martino mentioned is that he's allowed to interview for promotions. Either that or his agent sucks at his job.