would your current opinion(s)/Feeling(s) on the team be the same or different? A 4-3 record in a very weak NFC would put us solidly in the playoff hunt and yet all the issues we have would still be there.
For me the one thing that would be different is the feeling that the rest of the season means something and gives a chance to build as we go. That really isn't any different than it is now but with a winning record it would feel different.
The negative to that scenario:
Let's say we did win those games, would the Giants be buyers right now (trade deadline)- with DG at the helm the possibility of a yes is much greater. Would that have been fools gold (the record) that leads us to costly grabs that end up falling flat?
markky : 12:16 pm : link : reply
two wins early in the season. i would feel differently.
Against WFT - Slayton and Lawrence pissed that one away. If DL doesn't jump offsides - Giants win. Coaches put Slayton in a position to score, and he dropped a wide open TD.
While there were coaching mistakes - players lost that one.
I would definitely feel more positive about the direction of the Giants at 4-3 or 3-4, but the Giants are not better than either of those teams in terms of overall talent. Even if we had won those games the reality is that with all the injuries on the OL, WRs, LBS and DBs the chances of the Giants beating Dallas for the NFC East would still seem remote.
Quote:
yes, because it would mean that the coaches didn't piss away
markky : 12:16 pm : link : reply
two wins early in the season. i would feel differently.
Against WFT - Slayton and Lawrence pissed that one away. If DL doesn't jump offsides - Giants win. Coaches put Slayton in a position to score, and he dropped a wide open TD.
While there were coaching mistakes - players lost that one.
Same could be said for Atlanta when Jackson dropped a game sealing INT.
this rings hollow.
they were tied with Dallas through the first half with Jones. Yes the defense probably would have given up points before half regardless of Jones getting hurt or not, but had Jones not gotten hurt there's no reason to think they may have been able to stay in the game. With Glennon they opened the second half with a FG and made it a 4 point game. Again, it's likely the defense may have still collapsed and lost the game - but Glennon's int to Diggs was one of the reasons the doors got blown off. Same with the failed 4th down from the 2 yard line on the next possession.
the Ram game was a very different type of shellacking. there's no way a beat down like that should be acceptable but given the personnel on the field it's not hard to understand.
the losses to WFT and ATL are inexplicable and imo the OP's post is dead on. A winning record right now and a chance to have a winning record heading into the bye if they could split the next 2 would have been near the top end of anyone's optimistic expectations heading into the season. Especially given all the injuries.
Sadly this is the truth. Team doesn't have enough on the roster in key places to keep up with (or slow down) some of the high-octane offensive teams in the league.
Getting to around .500 still seems like a feat for these Giants before expecting more.
Quote:
if you cant keep up with Dallas and LA, two of the better teams in the NFC, then who cares if you have a winning record. Getting thumped by those 2 teams showed who we really are
this rings hollow.
they were tied with Dallas through the first half with Jones. Yes the defense probably would have given up points before half regardless of Jones getting hurt or not, but had Jones not gotten hurt there's no reason to think they may have been able to stay in the game. With Glennon they opened the second half with a FG and made it a 4 point game. Again, it's likely the defense may have still collapsed and lost the game - but Glennon's int to Diggs was one of the reasons the doors got blown off. Same with the failed 4th down from the 2 yard line on the next possession.
the Ram game was a very different type of shellacking. there's no way a beat down like that should be acceptable but given the personnel on the field it's not hard to understand.
the losses to WFT and ATL are inexplicable and imo the OP's post is dead on. A winning record right now and a chance to have a winning record heading into the bye if they could split the next 2 would have been near the top end of anyone's optimistic expectations heading into the season. Especially given all the injuries.
Your perception of the losses to Dallas and Rams isn't on point. After both stopped their own unforced errors in the first half, they blew the Giants out of the water.
Injuries are some but not enough of the reason for the difference in where these teams currently stack up in NFC hierarchy.
yup
Quote:
if you cant keep up with Dallas and LA, two of the better teams in the NFC, then who cares if you have a winning record. Getting thumped by those 2 teams showed who we really are
this rings hollow.
they were tied with Dallas through the first half with Jones. Yes the defense probably would have given up points before half regardless of Jones getting hurt or not, but had Jones not gotten hurt there's no reason to think they may have been able to stay in the game. With Glennon they opened the second half with a FG and made it a 4 point game. Again, it's likely the defense may have still collapsed and lost the game - but Glennon's int to Diggs was one of the reasons the doors got blown off. Same with the failed 4th down from the 2 yard line on the next possession.
the Ram game was a very different type of shellacking. there's no way a beat down like that should be acceptable but given the personnel on the field it's not hard to understand.
the losses to WFT and ATL are inexplicable and imo the OP's post is dead on. A winning record right now and a chance to have a winning record heading into the bye if they could split the next 2 would have been near the top end of anyone's optimistic expectations heading into the season. Especially given all the injuries.
They may have been tied with Dallas at 10-10 but they looked terrible. That’s important.
I'm not the OP, but the easiest path to changing those outcomes was no flag on the final kick (which may have actually been the correct call in the first place since it looked like Lawrence moved on the snap) and Adoree Jackson not dropping the INT.
Football is a game of inches so everyone has losses like that but that's why I think this is an interesting thought experiment because the entire conversation re: the organization and Jones specifically would be different - without having to change a single play Jones has been directly involved in. Flip those 2 plays and he'd have been responsible for leading game winning 4Q/OT drives in 3 of 4 wins on the year, 2 on the road.
I think if we rip off 10 in a row (its been done by Giants mediocre teams in the past).....there will still be naysayers claiming it was a fluke. The other guys layed down,whatever.
I'm a bit more optimistic after we shalacked the Panthers and their pompous HC claiming he was going to run it down our throats
How did that work out Matt Rhule?
This team to my eye seems the best we have had since out 11-5 year.
We are doing it with 2nd teamers. But you know what thats how unhearalded players often rise to the next level (Brady?)
They get a shot and make the most of it
I remain cautiously optimistic until and if we are statistically eliminated. I'm proud of the fact the team bootstrapped itself and finally crushed someone.
But the Giants were awful in the first half. Maybe they lose 44-27 but the Giants were terrible in that game before anyone got hurt. Can’t ignore that. This isn’t a good football team.
I think if we rip off 10 in a row (its been done by Giants mediocre teams in the past).....there will still be naysayers claiming it was a fluke. The other guys layed down,whatever.
This team to my eye seems the best we have had since out 11-5 year.
Lmao. Cmon guys. I don’t think we have to worry about that hypothetical.
Quote:
What will some of you say if the Giants go ona run?
I think if we rip off 10 in a row (its been done by Giants mediocre teams in the past).....there will still be naysayers claiming it was a fluke. The other guys layed down,whatever.
This team to my eye seems the best we have had since out 11-5 year.
Lmao. Cmon guys. I don’t think we have to worry about that hypothetical.
I'm not nearly predicting that but the honest truth is we are a middle of the pack team. We are not a group of 55 scrubs.
WE actually have some remarkable talent on this team- Toney, Jones, Golladay, The Big Cat
Football is an emotional game. Dallas wanted to take it to us for the Dak thing. I cannot explain the Rams game...we were not ready for them.
When they (Dallas) return in December I expect they will get the same treatment in reverse
Quote:
In comment 15431568 Batenhorst7 said:
Quote:
What will some of you say if the Giants go ona run?
I think if we rip off 10 in a row (its been done by Giants mediocre teams in the past).....there will still be naysayers claiming it was a fluke. The other guys layed down,whatever.
This team to my eye seems the best we have had since out 11-5 year.
Lmao. Cmon guys. I don’t think we have to worry about that hypothetical.
I'm not nearly predicting that but the honest truth is we are a middle of the pack team. We are not a group of 55 scrubs.
WE actually have some remarkable talent on this team- Toney, Jones, Golladay, The Big Cat
Football is an emotional game. Dallas wanted to take it to us for the Dak thing. I cannot explain the Rams game...we were not ready for them.
When they (Dallas) return in December I expect they will get the same treatment in reverse
You think we’re going to blow out Dallas in December?? This isn’t a middle of the road team. The offense has been brutal outside of the Washington game and half the Saints game. The defense is atrocious. This is a bad football team.
Dallas didn’t blow us out because of some vendetta. They blew us out because they’re that much better than us.
The Giants played well enough to win the Atl and WFT games. The Giants may play well enough to beat KC...and maybe they will. Then you take it one game at a time.
Yes, woulda, coulda and shoulda is always easy to play but in this case (as pointed out by another poster) the Giants had two plays that cost them these games- DL being offsides and the dropped Int against Atlanta. if those two plays are made properly (so not needing other things to fall their way, we win both of those games).
If the Giants pull out a victory over KC the entire season, the entire narrative changes. Are we hoping to lose and move on (with no real reason to expect things to be different as the one constant, the one thing we have now gotten very used to is losing) or perhaps to start winning games and develop the sense that we can win and will win games..
Well, unless that record said 4-3 apparently. In that case, the record LIES, they beat weak teams, they still suck, etc.....:).
Well, unless that record said 4-3 apparently. In that case, the record LIES, they beat weak teams, they still suck, etc.....:).
But it doesn't say 4-3.
I think Mara shared the same flawed logic as many on BBI after last season.
If we had won all our close games last year, we would have had a winning record.
Loser talk.
By Dallas and the Rams and thoroughly beaten by Denver?
Dunno.
I think Mara shared the same flawed logic as many on BBI after last season.
If we had won all our close games last year, we would have had a winning record.
Loser talk.
The post (as usual folks get caught up in being right or proving others wrong) was more what would your thoughts be if those two games hadn't ended the way they did. Would it matter to you.. Like I said the issues would still be there but maybe at least the feeling of having some wins, in the positive category and not just a few more wins against more losses, might mean something.
Unlike the delusions you allude to, I have no doubt what is wrong with this team and what is right with this team. The offsides penalty was a bone head play that allowed WFT a redo on a chance to win. That isn't some random play in the middle of the game followed by many more, it was literally a second chance at the last play. The dropped INT isn't an INT in the first half, it was an INT that would have sealed the game. Instead we lose.
Quote:
Are a disease on BBI. Let's stick to objective reality please. The Giants are 2-5. For every play you point to that could have flipped a certain way the other team can point to something too. These delusions are shared by ownership and it is why we are mired in ineptitude.
I think Mara shared the same flawed logic as many on BBI after last season.
If we had won all our close games last year, we would have had a winning record.
Loser talk.
The post (as usual folks get caught up in being right or proving others wrong) was more what would your thoughts be if those two games hadn't ended the way they did. Would it matter to you.. Like I said the issues would still be there but maybe at least the feeling of having some wins, in the positive category and not just a few more wins against more losses, might mean something.
Unlike the delusions you allude to, I have no doubt what is wrong with this team and what is right with this team. The offsides penalty was a bone head play that allowed WFT a redo on a chance to win. That isn't some random play in the middle of the game followed by many more, it was literally a second chance at the last play. The dropped INT isn't an INT in the first half, it was an INT that would have sealed the game. Instead we lose.
Mara is in the same exact delusion. he walked off the field last year and said to himself, "If we had won our close games, we would have had a winning record and made the playoffs"
So we stay the course.
It is why we continue to lose.
Quote:
In comment 15431608 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15431568 Batenhorst7 said:
Quote:
What will some of you say if the Giants go ona run?
I think if we rip off 10 in a row (its been done by Giants mediocre teams in the past).....there will still be naysayers claiming it was a fluke. The other guys layed down,whatever.
This team to my eye seems the best we have had since out 11-5 year.
Lmao. Cmon guys. I don’t think we have to worry about that hypothetical.
I'm not nearly predicting that but the honest truth is we are a middle of the pack team. We are not a group of 55 scrubs.
WE actually have some remarkable talent on this team- Toney, Jones, Golladay, The Big Cat
Football is an emotional game. Dallas wanted to take it to us for the Dak thing. I cannot explain the Rams game...we were not ready for them.
When they (Dallas) return in December I expect they will get the same treatment in reverse
You think we’re going to blow out Dallas in December?? This isn’t a middle of the road team. The offense has been brutal outside of the Washington game and half the Saints game. The defense is atrocious. This is a bad football team.
Dallas didn’t blow us out because of some vendetta. They blew us out because they’re that much better than us.
Giants lost Barkley, Jones and Golladay in the first half of the game..and went into the game without Thomas(which was probably the biggest impact outside of losing your starting QB). Now, Golladay was not having success on Diggs prior to his exit. However, the success Randy Gregory was having on Solder was obscene...this was a guy that Thomas had matched up with before and absolutely handled him.
My point is...I wouldn't say Dallas blew us out because they are that much better than us...because that would be completely ignoring the staggering losses on offense...and that's without mentioning the spate of injuries to the interior line..which Dallas was repeatedly exploiting with stunts.
Azeez had been flashing splash plays earlier in the year..then he got to play Carolina's tackles..and went off. The same held true for Gregory..he blew up against Carolina..and then had the good fortune to up against a Giants offense that just lost Thomas(coming off perhaps his best game as a pro), and Gregory subsequently went off against the Giants. I obviously think the Cowboys have the better team, but the "they blew us out because they are that much better" take I have a hard time hearing that because the Cowboys defense played an absolute shell of the Giants offensive roster in that game. At this point, I really just want the Giants offense as healthy as can be for the second game against Dallas to get a better idea of what they are capable of. My hope for that game is that Peart has made strides and takes over at RT, with AT at LT..and that we have Golladay, Toney, Shep, Jones and Barkley on the field. It's hard to know what the Giants offensive potential can be when top players keep going down.
Defensively in that game, I was most disappointed by our corners not competing better on the two long plays to Lamb and Cooper..that is one place I thought they could match up on defense..fully expecting Dallas to be able to run the ball and force feed their tight ends.
Dallas blew us out because they’re better than us.
That stat is based on a much bigger sample size than W/L and indicates that Giants record pretty accurately indicates how good they are.
That stat is based on a much bigger sample size than W/L and indicates that Giants record pretty accurately indicates how good they are.
The irony is that if say, Philly was 4-3 with a -40 point differential this board would be going on about how they’re a fraud.
Why do you think that is? I can’t prove it but I suspect it has to do with where jones was drafted . They don’t want to look bad . Really if jones was drafted in the third round where he should have been we would have anotherqb there in the off season who would have gotten the start week four vs the saint and jones would have been benched after Atlanta game
The writing should have been on the wall when he went a month without a TD.
So as a fan, yes I would think differently