I’m seeing a categorical statement that there are no really good QBs coming out. I’d like posters to show a little bit of humility on this point.
After what we’ve seen from Jones in terms of field processing, pocket presence and timing, it’s become really clear that high level QBing that translates to the NFL is difficult to spot. It’s subtle and it requires skillful scouting to detect. In fact, real NFL scouts are constantly making erroneous projections after what I’m sure is extensive work and film viewing.
Two of the best NFL QBs ever, Joe Montana and Drew Brees, we’re physically ordinary and we’re in fact downgraded in the draft. Superb physical prototypes like Jeff George failed utterly.
So spare me any categorical statements about the upcoming class, even if you’ve watched several full college games. I’m not saying that there are or are not future greats in the coming class. I’m saying that after seeing Eli, Kerry Collins and Jones, we should know from experience that making the projection is REALLY HARD. (That’s what she said.)
and at the same time claiming that DJ is a bust??? Based only on your analysis?
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I agree that talent upgrades are needed everywhere. At least two quarterbacks (Corral and Willis) are clear talent upgrades over Jones.
It's clear by this point that Jones was not a first round talent - more of a day two or three guy. Corral and Willis are first round talents.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
mark my words
if there is a Mayfield/Murray/Burrow/Lawrence in this draft it's a near certainty they won't have a shot at them - so the odds say they are unlikely to be in a position where there's an obvious QB selection to anyone except the QB gurus on BBI.
An arm that can reach any part of the field; especially in windy or adverse conditions.
The ability to slide, move up in the pocket or move away from trouble while continuing to scan the field. Scanning the field allows a QB to either lead a WR getting open or to identify a WR that is being interfered with and throwing to that person so the referees clearly have to throw a flag. (Danny seems to lock onto a receiver right from the drop and if that receiver isn't open, makes a run for it.)
The ability to learn and recognize defenses so when a team disguises their D or when an impending blitz is coming; they can audible out or quickly get it to the hot read.
The ability to hang in there to make the best throw or to allow the D to get near so he can throw the perfect screen pass. We have typically had a lousy screen offense.
Finally, the ability to speed up the drive for those two minute or end of the game scenarios.
A lot of this comes from experience and we don't yet know what Danny will transform into as he plays more, has more protection and better weapons. He will either be a top of the line QB given his tools or just a career back-up who might be able to win you a game or two a season when the #1 is injured.
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Nowhere near as good. Now that's funny. Please stop confusing Jones with Elway at Stanford.
You don't think Clemson still has a high caliber defense? Let me answer that for you - they do. And Pickett lit them up for 300+, 2 TD/0 INT, a 90 QBR.
Did it ever occur to that the light finally went off for Pickett and now he gets it? Happened for Burrow...
A team this bereft of talent shouldn't be drafting for "need" anyway. They need to improve at virtually every position on the field.
If Jones isn't part of the solution, that especially needs to be addressed before he gets to be a very expensive "not the problem".
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Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Nowhere near as good. Now that's funny. Please stop confusing Jones with Elway at Stanford.
You don't think Clemson still has a high caliber defense? Let me answer that for you - they do. And Pickett lit them up for 300+, 2 TD/0 INT, a 90 QBR.
Did it ever occur to that the light finally went off for Pickett and now he gets it? Happened for Burrow...
it happened for Burrow.
and didn't happen for about 100 other QBs who have turned out to be busts.
Burrow's outcome is pretty unique and in large part due to the fact that the only reason he transferred in the first place was because he was stuck behind another QB good enough to break a bunch of records and get picked in the first round. Had he played earlier he likely would have succeeded earlier.
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Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Nowhere near as good. Now that's funny. Please stop confusing Jones with Elway at Stanford.
You don't think Clemson still has a high caliber defense? Let me answer that for you - they do. And Pickett lit them up for 300+, 2 TD/0 INT, a 90 QBR.
Did it ever occur to that the light finally went off for Pickett and now he gets it? Happened for Burrow...
Clemson is 4-3 and the QB from BC passed for 311 yards. The QB for NC State had 4 TD passes against Clemson defense. But, why let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Jones has played better this season, but your header actually says it all. Jones has to be more than "not the problem". He has to be a key factor in pulling this team out of the basement as he was chosen #6 overall three years ago to be that very guy.
Using the draft to fix each year's urgent need almost ensures the team will miss out on better value/better talent.
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In comment 15431491 bw in dc said:
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
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In comment 15431495 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15431491 bw in dc said:
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
Not particularly, no. If he'd had a different coach than Cutcliffe it's likely the Giants don't draft him. I looked at this a few months ago - Jones was the least productive college quarterback of every first rounder + every significant non-first rounder in the last ten years. Looking back at his resume and skillset it's actually pretty ridiculous he was drafted in the first round.
Pickett (or anyone else) can be a better prospect than "Not the Problem" and still not make sense in round one.
I completely agree with that sentiment. There's still football to be played, but right now I think Corral is in that category.
I expect Corral to end up going #1 overall, so it's unlikely to matter for us.
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In comment 15431503 Essex said:
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In comment 15431495 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15431491 bw in dc said:
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
Not particularly, no. If he'd had a different coach than Cutcliffe it's likely the Giants don't draft him. I looked at this a few months ago - Jones was the least productive college quarterback of every first rounder + every significant non-first rounder in the last ten years. Looking back at his resume and skillset it's actually pretty ridiculous he was drafted in the first round.
Pickett (or anyone else) can be a better prospect than "Not the Problem" and still not make sense in round one.
That's what I thought. But then again, it wasnt his fault at Duke either.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
No, but he didn't play in a "Mickey Mouse" conference.
Wait a minute, yes he did.
There was no proof of Jones's capability to even be a top shelf college player, yet the Giants drafted him 6th overall. Incredible.
Clemson is 4-3 and the QB from BC passed for 311 yards. The QB for NC State had 4 TD passes against Clemson defense. But, why let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.
BC scored 13 points against Clemson. That's the number between 12 and 14. NC State, who is very good, scored 27 points in 2 OTs. Seriously, coming to a gun fight with a butter knife isn't your best bet.
Here is more "narrative". Clemson has given up 14.6 PPG, 3rd in the country.
Always glad to help...
adamg : 3/17/2018 6:38 pm : link
25 Rosen
14.5 Darnold
8.5 Mayfield
4 Allen
3 Trade down/none
2 Jackson
1 Lauletta
RE: I like Webb
Go Terps : 3/17/2018 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13871430 BlueinRoch said:
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trade down/none for me.
Lamar Jackson
I didn't say he was. I'm saying he's a significantly better prospect than Jones, and worth drafting if we get a shot at him.
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In comment 15431528 OBJRoyal said:
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In comment 15431503 Essex said:
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In comment 15431495 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15431491 bw in dc said:
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
I caught some of him last week. Looking forward to watching more.
Kenny Pickett is nowhere near as good as Jones. He is a 23 year old kid playing in a Mickey Mouse conference and never had exceptional numbers besides this year. Is he a good college QB? This year he certainly is. Is he a good NFL QB? Not sure where you get that from
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
Not particularly, no. If he'd had a different coach than Cutcliffe it's likely the Giants don't draft him. I looked at this a few months ago - Jones was the least productive college quarterback of every first rounder + every significant non-first rounder in the last ten years. Looking back at his resume and skillset it's actually pretty ridiculous he was drafted in the first round.
Pickett (or anyone else) can be a better prospect than "Not the Problem" and still not make sense in round one.
That's what I thought. But then again, it wasnt his fault at Duke either.
you mean his fault that he led them to 2 of their 3 total bowl wins since 1961 in his last 2 years there?
There was no proof of Jones's capability to even be a top shelf college player, yet the Giants drafted him 6th overall. Incredible.
100% agree. The "it wasnt his fault at Duke" is something I've only heard on BBI. Its carried over to the NFL. At some point, the excuses need to stop
Or Willis. Or Corral.
Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
I would say Jones was a good college QB for Duke - sure. But there are a lot of good QBs in college. Whether that means they are a good or great NFL prospect, that's a different standard. And, IMV, Jones wasn't a great NFL prospect to warrant the 6th pick...
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
It's college. Haskins & Tua film and production were incredible. I am not disagreeing with you btw. Just pointing out a small flaw in the argument. I watched Pickett after your recommendation. He has the skills I covet. He is elusive and create, Jones is fast, Picket the superior athlete. His arm is good from multiple angles. Call me intrigued. He might not get drafted in round one though but I do agree his college performance exceeds Jones in college.
Haskins and Tua's film, I thought, was highly questionable. You could see issues.
THIS!
100% this.
Thus far, he has not shown he can be that guy. One very good game against the Saints does not make him that guy. We need to have a definitive answer as to whether he can be that guy...and we need it this season.
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In comment 15431491 bw in dc said:
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
It's college. Haskins & Tua film and production were incredible. I am not disagreeing with you btw. Just pointing out a small flaw in the argument. I watched Pickett after your recommendation. He has the skills I covet. He is elusive and create, Jones is fast, Picket the superior athlete. His arm is good from multiple angles. Call me intrigued. He might not get drafted in round one though but I do agree his college performance exceeds Jones in college.
Haskins and Tua's film, I thought, was highly questionable. You could see issues.
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Was Jones even a "good" college qb???
I would say Jones was a good college QB for Duke - sure. But there are a lot of good QBs in college. Whether that means they are a good or great NFL prospect, that's a different standard. And, IMV, Jones wasn't a great NFL prospect to warrant the 6th pick...
But Kenny Picket is. Hhahahahahahahhahahahahah
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can watch a guy like Kenny Pickett right now and not say he's as good as Jones at this point in college.
Or Willis. Or Corral.
It's college. Haskins & Tua film and production were incredible. I am not disagreeing with you btw. Just pointing out a small flaw in the argument. I watched Pickett after your recommendation. He has the skills I covet. He is elusive and create, Jones is fast, Picket the superior athlete. His arm is good from multiple angles. Call me intrigued. He might not get drafted in round one though but I do agree his college performance exceeds Jones in college.
That's fair. BTW, saw Kiper's updated big board this morning. He has Pickett his #1 QB, and the #15th overall pick.
Jones was on a bad football team and was always under pressure. His stat's in college will not compare to Dwayne Haskins. If I was a GM I would have someone break down the film for the QB prospects and have them throw out all plays that the QB was not pressured, throw them right in the trash. Then lets start comparing them from there.
Two things with Corral need to get cleaned up from what I've seen 1) decision making versus quality opponents and 2) he's buddies with Lane Kiffin, which strikes me as a character flaw, lol.
But Kenny Picket is. Hhahahahahahahhahahahahah
I get it. You don't like Pickett. Fine.
Because I think he's done that in 3 of the 5 games he's finished this year (that's not counting the Panthers win since they had the lead).
Two things with Corral need to get cleaned up from what I've seen 1) decision making versus quality opponents and 2) he's buddies with Lane Kiffin, which strikes me as a character flaw, lol.
I was down on both Haskins and Tua. Especially Haskins.
Corral is interesting. I just struggle with his body type. He's small in terms of height and he looks sort of scrawny. Remind me of Jake Plummer. But he's a gamer and actually can make a lot of throws. He'll have issues with a lot of flags from some conduct issues in high school...
I mean - which ever has the most non-Eli traits...that's the guy the NYG want!
Last year there was Lawrence who was considered as a potential franchise and some lesser prospects
Is there a Lawrence in this draft?
Drafting a QB is a crap shoot and the success rate for selecting QBs is quite low. I would not anticipate that there is a savior in the draft
Who out of last years draft would you want ?
Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Jones, Lance,
I have been researching QBs in this draft and there are quite a few with draft able grades but none who would appear to be a sure thing
If it turns out that one or two of these prospects do separate themselves from the others, they will not likely be available when the Giants draft
So those of you who would draft a QB would you be willing to accept the third best QB ?
Or would you use the draft capital to move up and get the preferred QB ?
I cannot fathom coming out of this draft without a stud edge and a stud OL
So? Does that mean Sy can't express his opinions either now?
Because he was super-high on Rosen...