I’m seeing a categorical statement that there are no really good QBs coming out. I’d like posters to show a little bit of humility on this point.
After what we’ve seen from Jones in terms of field processing, pocket presence and timing, it’s become really clear that high level QBing that translates to the NFL is difficult to spot. It’s subtle and it requires skillful scouting to detect. In fact, real NFL scouts are constantly making erroneous projections after what I’m sure is extensive work and film viewing.
Two of the best NFL QBs ever, Joe Montana and Drew Brees, we’re physically ordinary and we’re in fact downgraded in the draft. Superb physical prototypes like Jeff George failed utterly.
So spare me any categorical statements about the upcoming class, even if you’ve watched several full college games. I’m not saying that there are or are not future greats in the coming class. I’m saying that after seeing Eli, Kerry Collins and Jones, we should know from experience that making the projection is REALLY HARD. (That’s what she said.)
There was no proof of Jones's capability to even be a top shelf college player, yet the Giants drafted him 6th overall. Incredible.
Jones had essentially the same career that Lamar Jackson had in college. Do you think Lamar Jackson had a good college career?
And - you're a complete moron if you think there was "no proof" of Jones being a top shelf college player. He was a 1st round draft pick by every single stretch of the imagination. Did we pick him 10 slots early? Maybe. Who the fuck cares man. Get over it.
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QB is not even the 2nd or 3rd most urgent need in the upcoming draft. Want to throw the dice on a later round project QB? That's the only way I see giants picking one.
A team this bereft of talent shouldn't be drafting for "need" anyway. They need to improve at virtually every position on the field.
If Jones isn't part of the solution, that especially needs to be addressed before he gets to be a very expensive "not the problem".
There are almost always two or more players available on any row of a team's draft board. When one of them plays a position of more need you take him. Jones is not the problem and Giants will keep him at low or below avg cost for at least two more years while they address other issues.
Ironically enough, your boy Herbert was the guy Gettleman loved, he chose to stay in school. It happens.
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QB is not even the 2nd or 3rd most urgent need in the upcoming draft. Want to throw the dice on a later round project QB? That's the only way I see giants picking one.
Jones has played better this season, but your header actually says it all. Jones has to be more than "not the problem". He has to be a key factor in pulling this team out of the basement as he was chosen #6 overall three years ago to be that very guy.
Using the draft to fix each year's urgent need almost ensures the team will miss out on better value/better talent.
Jones will not be the first player to improve his play drastically when he is surrounded by a better team.
The fact that he may not carry a team for a full season season does not disqualify him from being part of a winning program.
You think that because Jones was taken at 6 instead of 17 or 20s or wherever, that it would drastically effect the way the team is currently. Nope. Jones would be the same player on the same trajectory, and he's on his way.
So - just because he didn't light the NFL on fire his first two seasons and we took him at 6, you've already called him a bust, you've already said he sucks, and that he's a bad QB.
Everyone else on earth is singing a different tune, so you can keep rolling with your Jones narrative and just shut the fuck up about it already.
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It wasn't his fault at Duke, but that's not a reason to draft him either.
There was no proof of Jones's capability to even be a top shelf college player, yet the Giants drafted him 6th overall. Incredible.
Jones had essentially the same career that Lamar Jackson had in college. Do you think Lamar Jackson had a good college career?
Are you serious?
Lamar Jackson college (3 years):
Passing - 9043 yards, 8.3 Y/A, 69 TDs, 27 INTs
Rushing - 4132 yards, 50 TDs
Daniel Jones college (3 years):
Passing - 8201 yards, 6.4 Y/A, 52 TDs, 29 INTs
Rushing - 1323 yards, 17 TDs
This is embarrassing, even for you.
I'll just leave this here:
Jones passing
Jackson passing
Jones rushing
Jackson rushing
Heisman voting:
Jackson - 1st place as a sophomore, 3rd place as a junior
Jones - Um...
Corral or Willis definitely aren't forcing it. I can't say I've seen enough of Pickett but it sounds like he wouldn't be forcing it either.
Jones benefited hugely from the Cutcliffe association, it's pretty simple.
Which is why he went over 20 picks ahead of him in the NFL draft. Which is why people still don't know if Jackson can actually throw the football once the weather gets to be 40 degrees or colder, and which is why his long term success in the NFL and ability to throw the ball will be questioned until he can actually prove otherwise, which he hasn't.
Willis and Corral are generally thought of as the two first round caliber QB's but both of them would likely have been in my tier with Lance and Fields. Willis has had some turnover issues this year and for someone of his talent you don't like to see games like he had against ULM. The mechanics also need to be cleaned up which is sometimes easier said than done. Corral has made strides this year, but still has some character issues and is hard for me to say that he reminds me of another QB who was successful. Russell Wilson did well as an undersized QB, but a far greater number have failed.
One of those stars aligned moments - right time, right player, right coach, right organization. Probably wouldn't have worked most other places.
Compare their pro cv ... and try again.
You're a nice guy, ryan, but you're blinded behind those blue-colored glasses most of the time.
On our way to what exactly? This isn't a stacked team who needed a game manager, but one who once again proved they could not compete.
jones does not look like to have made any strides to be a QB that can play in a high productive offense AND not turn the ball over. Door #2 is that or he could be low production and protect the ball. The hell are you going to do with that?
I contend no QB right now with a winning record is doing more with less than LJax.
And it isn't even close. NO PLAYER IN THE NFL carries a bigger burden for his team than LJax.
He's a top 10 QB and a top 10 RB. By nearly every metric.
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When you do you get Christian Ponder or Haskins or a Daniel Jones nine times out of 10 and that is not the odds you want on a 1st round pick.
Corral or Willis definitely aren't forcing it. I can't say I've seen enough of Pickett but it sounds like he wouldn't be forcing it either.
Not trying topick a fight but an honest question...
Do you think the level of competition Willis faces could be problematic on how to truly scout him?
Jones had essentially the same career that Lamar Jackson had in college. Do you think Lamar Jackson had a good college career?
You really should consider self-banning yourself with this. It's embarrassing.
Corral
Willis
Pickett
If there is a late riser with elite attributes then you have to consider it. I'm not saying that guy is evident yet, but you keep your eyes and options open
I edited the above.
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Jackson is a great fantasy QB. He has absolutely melted in the playoffs because he can't throw the ball. This isn't news. His accuracy is awful in cold weather. He can't throw the ball.
I contend no QB right now with a winning record is doing more with less than LJax.
And it isn't even close. NO PLAYER IN THE NFL carries a bigger burden for his team than LJax.
He's a top 10 QB and a top 10 RB. By nearly every metric.
There have been 2 Lamars this year.
Prime Time Lamar who has been awesome (his 3 Night games)
Sunday afternoon Lamar - where he has been just ok.
Maybe Baltimore can petition the NFL to play playoff night games haha
Corral
Willis
Pickett
Pickett's was crap prior to this year as a 5th year senior when his contemporaries prior to this year are now in NFL. Willis I would expect better for a Top QB playing bad teams. Corral has strong numbers and in theory the least risk, but there are character issues related to work ethic and it is hard for me to find another QB that makes me say he should succeed because that player before him succeeded.
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In comment 15431603 Walker Gillette said:
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When you do you get Christian Ponder or Haskins or a Daniel Jones nine times out of 10 and that is not the odds you want on a 1st round pick.
Corral or Willis definitely aren't forcing it. I can't say I've seen enough of Pickett but it sounds like he wouldn't be forcing it either.
Not trying topick a fight but an honest question...
Do you think the level of competition Willis faces could be problematic on how to truly scout him?
I don't know. We know his physical superiority isn't just based on the competition - he went to Auburn originally as a 3 star recruit. The arm strength and athleticism are plain to see...both are top shelf. With regards to his reads, instincts, anticipation - I imagine those will be issues early like they were with Allen out of Wyoming and are now with Lance out of ND State. Then it's on the coaches to ease the transition and tailor the offense to the strengths. You're drafting for the ceiling here.
I contend no QB right now with a winning record is doing more with less than LJax.
And it isn't even close. NO PLAYER IN THE NFL carries a bigger burden for his team than LJax.
He's a top 10 QB and a top 10 RB. By nearly every metric.
There have been 2 Lamars this year.
Prime Time Lamar who has been awesome (his 3 Night games)
Sunday afternoon Lamar - where he has been just ok.
Maybe Baltimore can petition the NFL to play playoff night games haha
He's really been sensational overall. He's lost his all pro LT after game one, all three starting RBs before the season started, his #1 draft choice WR from the '21 draft (until two weeks ago), and Nick Boyle (TE) is still out. Oh, and Zeitler is his RG... ;)
You think that because Jones was taken at 6 instead of 17 or 20s or wherever, that it would drastically effect the way the team is currently. Nope. Jones would be the same player on the same trajectory, and he's on his way.
You are missing the point.
The Giants took him at #6 because they believed he had Franchise QB value to him. Otherwise, they could have gone with other options to improve the roster elsewhere. So sets that expectation.
If you are suggesting Jones could have been chosen later and still played at his current trajectory, then he was completely overdrafted. And the Giants missed out on better players that could have helped more at #6.
He's really been sensational overall. He's lost his all pro LT after game one, all three starting RBs before the season started, his #1 draft choice WR from the '21 draft (until two weeks ago), and Nick Boyle (TE) is still out. Oh, and Zeitler is his RG... ;)
He's been good. But again, we cant make excuses for him when he doesnt play well cause of injuries cause then we can say the same thing about Jones and we dont need to go through that.
Watching him each week,
He has had 4 awesome games (Raiders, Colts, chiefs, and Denver) And he has had 3 so-so games (SD, Cincy, and Detroit).
Baltimore is just a weird, weird team. For a half they can look like the worst team in football and then the next half they can look like the best team. An interesting team to follow.
I don't know. We know his physical superiority isn't just based on the competition - he went to Auburn originally as a 3 star recruit. The arm strength and athleticism are plain to see...both are top shelf. With regards to his reads, instincts, anticipation - I imagine those will be issues early like they were with Allen out of Wyoming and are now with Lance out of ND State. Then it's on the coaches to ease the transition and tailor the offense to the strengths. You're drafting for the ceiling here.
Thanks. I just worry and have reservations about small school QBs being drafted so early. Very tough to project.
It's OK to try and miss. We saw that with Arizona. What's not OK is to try, miss, and chase the miss to justify it. That's what the Giants are doing and it is strangling them.
Good post-game when he recently threw 3 INTs against ULM. Good kid. Humble.
Willis Interview - ( New Window )
Which is why if we have 2 picks in the 7-20 range, you pick a stud Edge and stud OL and leave QB for the following year if needed. Build the nucleus of the team first - we already have skill positions. Focus on the OL and LB/Edge.
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available when we pick. But if you make the move --you have to be right. This tam cannot afford under any circumstances to blow a franchise altering decision like that.
It's OK to try and miss. We saw that with Arizona. What's not OK is to try, miss, and chase the miss to justify it. That's what the Giants are doing and it is strangling them.
People are so damned impatient anymore. The Cardinals spent a high first on a QB, then sucked bad enough to end up with the number 1 overall pick and drafted a QB the new regime liked more. So now that is somehow the “template” of what everyone does.
Your impatience isn’t anyone’s problem but your own. And please stop acting like one team doing something and it working is somehow the correct way of doing things.