Daniel Jones is now a good quarterback. By good, I mean league average. And by league average, I mean someone who is going to make a lot of money on his next contract.
Daniel Jones is now a good quarterback. By good, I mean league average. And by league average, I mean someone who is going to make a lot of money on his next contract.
That’s depressing.
League average with Barkley, Golloday, Shep, Toney, Slayton, Ross, Thomas, Gates and Lemieux all missing most or multiple games.
and the commentary mentions the challenge in trying to evaluate him minus the boatload of skill players that have been unavailable.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
No, no. Don't you know? None of that matters. Jones has to start winning games and willing his teammates to victory. If he doesn't somehow manifest 10 wins despite a bottom 5 defense and a JV squad of offensive players, he's definitively not the guy. I've read it here on BBI.
Look, I still think Daniel Jones' ceiling is most likely middle of the road NFL QB. Most likely, I think he winds up being a lower level QB or high level backup. He's probably not THE GUY. But anyone making definitive statements at this juncture based solely in win total is pretty misguided.
and the commentary mentions the challenge in trying to evaluate him minus the boatload of skill players that have been unavailable.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
No, no. Don't you know? None of that matters. Jones has to start winning games and willing his teammates to victory. If he doesn't somehow manifest 10 wins despite a bottom 5 defense and a JV squad of offensive players, he's definitively not the guy. I've read it here on BBI.
He also needs to prove to me he is the new prophet and lay hands on his fellow men to heal limbs, joints and muscle. Is he the messiah or not?!
Beat me to it. Should be ahead of Ryan and Tannehill, just peaking outside the top ten.
Very quietly having a terrific bounce back year.
Colts had a brutal schedule to start the season. Starting to right the ship, especially after that heartbreaking loss a few weeks ago in Baltimore.
They still have TEN (this weekend)/Buffalo/Arizona/Tampa. If 9-8 gets you in this year, they still have a shot at making the playoffs. They have four easy games left (NYJ, JAX twice, HOU), so they can get there.
and the commentary mentions the challenge in trying to evaluate him minus the boatload of skill players that have been unavailable.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
Do you really think that it’s “rare” for a BBI poster to state that it’s tough to evaluate Jones because he’s been “minus a boatload of skill players” in some games this year?
It happens in literally every thread where an evaluation of Jones’s play is discussed.
Daniel Jones is now a good quarterback. By good, I mean league average. And by league average, I mean someone who is going to make a lot of money on his next contract.
who is cocky and good than a QB who is humble and bad
But Daniel is not bad. In fact -- he has size, athleticism, accuracy, leadership, toughness and a few other traits that can't be taught. His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker. At the very least we pick up the option and see.
It's Amazing How QBs don't play great with a Suck Ass OL
NFL is the ultimate team game. Chiefs OL blows and Mahomes is paying for it this year.
Actually, KC is still top seven in the NFL in PPG, and that includes the egg they laid last week in Tenn (before that game they were 3rd). They are 13th in rushing yards per game and 4th in the league in passing yards per game.
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
So while the Chiefs offense isn't as pristine as we have seen in the past, it's not the main problem. And nor is the OL (which is still gelling). It's the defense being 28th in point allowed per game at 29.
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
I'm rooting against him, because duh, he's a Cowboy... but I fear him as a Giants fan. He's a great QB. I felt the same way about Romo. After years of Quincy Carter and company following the Troy Aikman years, Dallas has had a really nice run of quality QB play.
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
I'm rooting against him, because duh, he's a Cowboy... but I fear him as a Giants fan. He's a great QB. I felt the same way about Romo. After years of Quincy Carter and company following the Troy Aikman years, Dallas has had a really nice run of quality QB play.
Because they’ve had a really nice run of quality offensive lineman!!! For Pete’s sake, how many times does the obvious need to be stated to some of you guys!
To my knowledge he lost two this year. Mahommes has fumbled more than 4 times but only lost 4, not sure how they are placing that value. In the Rams game blindsided and lost fumble. In the Denver game running for the first down lost a fumble. Am I missing the other 3?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
The problem with that approach is you miss out on good players that don't look and feel like those guys, and it leads you to think the Daniel Jones and Davis Webbs of the world are franchise QBs when they're really not.
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
Hmmmm. I haven't seen you (or the media) give Jones the same mulligan on his INT totals from last year, where no less than 6 of his picks were not Engramesque, but actually due to Engram himself...
Could it be because of your anti-Jones agenda? Nah, that's crazy talk...
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
The problem with that approach is you miss out on good players that don't look and feel like those guys, and it leads you to think the Daniel Jones and Davis Webbs of the world are franchise QBs when they're really not.
Davis Webb. Ug
Recalls the story of Ray Perkins telling his scouts if a player gets into a bar fight, move him up the draft board, bc those are the kind of guys we want.
His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker.
I'm not sure that "reading defenses quicker" is a coachable skill. Maybe it's something you can improve upon to some degree with drills and repetition, but it may simply be more of a product of how your mind works and how good your spatial awareness is.
I don't think it's simply a matter of being knowledgeable and experienced enough to recognize coverages. Can Jones look at one receiver in live action, recognize the various pieces on the field that may or may not make that receiver a viable target, then move on to another receiver and make that same real-time evaluation -- all within the tenth-of-seconds time he has to act before the situation changes?
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
Hmmmm. I haven't seen you (or the media) give Jones the same mulligan on his INT totals from last year, where no less than 6 of his picks were not Engramesque, but actually due to Engram himself...
Could it be because of your anti-Jones agenda? Nah, that's crazy talk...
I thought I had. Maybe not...?
Regardless, my universal view on INTs is that a scorekeeper should make a judgement on the responsibility of a turnover.
If the QB really makes a poor pass and it gets picked, call it an INT on the QB. If the QB makes a good pass and the receivers fails to make a catch, that should be a turnover on the WR. And no INT assigned to a QB's stat line...
His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker.
I'm not sure that "reading defenses quicker" is a coachable skill. Maybe it's something you can improve upon to some degree with drills and repetition, but it may simply be more of a product of how your mind works and how good your spatial awareness is.
I don't think it's simply a matter of being knowledgeable and experienced enough to recognize coverages. Can Jones look at one receiver in live action, recognize the various pieces on the field that may or may not make that receiver a viable target, then move on to another receiver and make that same real-time evaluation -- all within the tenth-of-seconds time he has to act before the situation changes?
I think that's the crux of the conversation about Jones. When the defense is in a favorable coverage and things go smoothly, Jones can be an effective QB.
When the post-snap picture doesn't match the pre-snap read, his processing isn't quite quick enough to adjust properly. I'm certain that Jones is smart enough that he can recognize what he "should have done" on a particular play even on the sideline right afterwards, but if that recognition doesn't occur almost instantly on the field, it's irrelevant.
He's also not great a buying himself time or ad-libbing when the pocket breaks down. Again, those are instinctive things that really can't be taught.
It's often been said that Jones was "pro ready" when he entered the draft, and that may very well be the case with his preparation and understanding of the concepts, but unless that translates into execution on the field, it really doesn't matter.
I'm rooting against him, because duh, he's a Cowboy... but I fear him as a Giants fan. He's a great QB. I felt the same way about Romo. After years of Quincy Carter and company following the Troy Aikman years, Dallas has had a really nice run of quality QB play.
Dak has yet to win anything. One playoff win and rarely beats teams with winning records. He has the best OL in the NFL to go with great receivers. The running game averages almost 150 yds. a game. He was terrible in 2018 when Cowboy OL had injuries which hindered the run game and passing. I believe he is good but overrated @ $40M year.
The fake narrative created by the Jones supporters that the Chiefs offense is some disaster this year.
I’d gladly swap offensive disasters.
They have 3 future hall of famers on that offense. The most physically gifted quarterback in the game, a guy threatening to be considered among the greatest tight ends to ever play, and a guy whose explosiveness as an offensive weapon is likely only rivaled by Randy Moss. Chiefs problems are on defense..they are as talented as anyone league wide on offense.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
That’s depressing.
Quote:
Daniel Jones is now a good quarterback. By good, I mean league average. And by league average, I mean someone who is going to make a lot of money on his next contract.
That’s depressing.
League average with Barkley, Golloday, Shep, Toney, Slayton, Ross, Thomas, Gates and Lemieux all missing most or multiple games.
Beat me to it. Should be ahead of Ryan and Tannehill, just peaking outside the top ten.
Very quietly having a terrific bounce back year.
Colts had a brutal schedule to start the season. Starting to right the ship, especially after that heartbreaking loss a few weeks ago in Baltimore.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
No, no. Don't you know? None of that matters. Jones has to start winning games and willing his teammates to victory. If he doesn't somehow manifest 10 wins despite a bottom 5 defense and a JV squad of offensive players, he's definitively not the guy. I've read it here on BBI.
Quote:
I think Wentz should be higher.
Beat me to it. Should be ahead of Ryan and Tannehill, just peaking outside the top ten.
Very quietly having a terrific bounce back year.
Colts had a brutal schedule to start the season. Starting to right the ship, especially after that heartbreaking loss a few weeks ago in Baltimore.
And now they have #56 back in the lineup!
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and the commentary mentions the challenge in trying to evaluate him minus the boatload of skill players that have been unavailable.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
No, no. Don't you know? None of that matters. Jones has to start winning games and willing his teammates to victory. If he doesn't somehow manifest 10 wins despite a bottom 5 defense and a JV squad of offensive players, he's definitively not the guy. I've read it here on BBI.
He also needs to prove to me he is the new prophet and lay hands on his fellow men to heal limbs, joints and muscle. Is he the messiah or not?!
Quote:
I think Wentz should be higher.
Beat me to it. Should be ahead of Ryan and Tannehill, just peaking outside the top ten.
Very quietly having a terrific bounce back year.
Colts had a brutal schedule to start the season. Starting to right the ship, especially after that heartbreaking loss a few weeks ago in Baltimore.
They still have TEN (this weekend)/Buffalo/Arizona/Tampa. If 9-8 gets you in this year, they still have a shot at making the playoffs. They have four easy games left (NYJ, JAX twice, HOU), so they can get there.
It's nice to read even that little paragraph with some context which you rarely find here.
Do you really think that it’s “rare” for a BBI poster to state that it’s tough to evaluate Jones because he’s been “minus a boatload of skill players” in some games this year?
It happens in literally every thread where an evaluation of Jones’s play is discussed.
Quote:
Daniel Jones is now a good quarterback. By good, I mean league average. And by league average, I mean someone who is going to make a lot of money on his next contract.
That’s depressing.
Nightmare scenario.
If he was both of those things and also great, that would be EVERYTHING you'd want to root for.
But Daniel is not bad. In fact -- he has size, athleticism, accuracy, leadership, toughness and a few other traits that can't be taught. His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker. At the very least we pick up the option and see.
NFL is the ultimate team game. Chiefs OL blows and Mahomes is paying for it this year.
I mean Mahomes worst year as a starter dominates Jones best year. People are actually thinking Mahomes has been bad this year… lol
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
1. I don't want him as my QB anymore so anything paid for him is too much
2. If he earns contract #2 from the Giants it won't be a top end contract, so what's "a lot of money"?
NFL is the ultimate team game. Chiefs OL blows and Mahomes is paying for it this year.
Actually, KC is still top seven in the NFL in PPG, and that includes the egg they laid last week in Tenn (before that game they were 3rd). They are 13th in rushing yards per game and 4th in the league in passing yards per game.
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
So while the Chiefs offense isn't as pristine as we have seen in the past, it's not the main problem. And nor is the OL (which is still gelling). It's the defense being 28th in point allowed per game at 29.
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Where are all the Giants cocky and good players?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
Quote:
Where are all the Giants cocky and good players?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
Gotta sell Toyotas and Dunkin Donuts.
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In comment 15432304 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Where are all the Giants cocky and good players?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
Because they’ve had a really nice run of quality offensive lineman!!! For Pete’s sake, how many times does the obvious need to be stated to some of you guys!
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In comment 15432344 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15432304 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Where are all the Giants cocky and good players?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
The problem with that approach is you miss out on good players that don't look and feel like those guys, and it leads you to think the Daniel Jones and Davis Webbs of the world are franchise QBs when they're really not.
Allen
Herbert
Rodgers
Mahomes
Burrow
sure... this list is ass.
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
Hmmmm. I haven't seen you (or the media) give Jones the same mulligan on his INT totals from last year, where no less than 6 of his picks were not Engramesque, but actually due to Engram himself...
Could it be because of your anti-Jones agenda? Nah, that's crazy talk...
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In comment 15432372 monstercoo said:
Quote:
In comment 15432344 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15432304 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Where are all the Giants cocky and good players?
Oh I agree 100%. I would very much like to have good players on the Giants. We have few, if any, now.
It's just with the QB position it seems that many fans (and likely the GM and owner) care very much that the player looks and acts a certain way.
That’s the Giants way. Cocky, big mouth players don’t belong on this team. “They can’t make it in this city, the media will destroy them.” Exceptionalism is a big problem with ownership and to some extent the fanbase too. Every player is expected to be Derek Jeter or Eli Manning, and keep their mouth shut. The result is a bunch of boy scouts running around on the field and players that speak out or show character are ostracized.
This is really stupid.
Who cares how a quarterback "looks"?
And, who wouldn't want an entire roster made up of Eli Mannings and Derek Jeters? Lol. I guess hall of famers and clutch performers who are all about business, win titles and cause little distraction around them are not what some would want.
The problem with that approach is you miss out on good players that don't look and feel like those guys, and it leads you to think the Daniel Jones and Davis Webbs of the world are franchise QBs when they're really not.
Davis Webb. Ug
Recalls the story of Ray Perkins telling his scouts if a player gets into a bar fight, move him up the draft board, bc those are the kind of guys we want.
His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker.
I'm not sure that "reading defenses quicker" is a coachable skill. Maybe it's something you can improve upon to some degree with drills and repetition, but it may simply be more of a product of how your mind works and how good your spatial awareness is.
I don't think it's simply a matter of being knowledgeable and experienced enough to recognize coverages. Can Jones look at one receiver in live action, recognize the various pieces on the field that may or may not make that receiver a viable target, then move on to another receiver and make that same real-time evaluation -- all within the tenth-of-seconds time he has to act before the situation changes?
I’d gladly swap offensive disasters.
Quote:
Mahomes is still top six in QBR and 3rd in TD passes. Yes, he does lead the league in INTs, but I saw this this analysis on ESPN where four of the INTs were Engramesque where the the receivers literally misplayed the ball and gave away gift INTs.
Hmmmm. I haven't seen you (or the media) give Jones the same mulligan on his INT totals from last year, where no less than 6 of his picks were not Engramesque, but actually due to Engram himself...
Could it be because of your anti-Jones agenda? Nah, that's crazy talk...
I thought I had. Maybe not...?
Regardless, my universal view on INTs is that a scorekeeper should make a judgement on the responsibility of a turnover.
If the QB really makes a poor pass and it gets picked, call it an INT on the QB. If the QB makes a good pass and the receivers fails to make a catch, that should be a turnover on the WR. And no INT assigned to a QB's stat line...
Quote:
His biggest deficiencies are among the most coachable, namely ball security and reading defenses quicker.
I'm not sure that "reading defenses quicker" is a coachable skill. Maybe it's something you can improve upon to some degree with drills and repetition, but it may simply be more of a product of how your mind works and how good your spatial awareness is.
I don't think it's simply a matter of being knowledgeable and experienced enough to recognize coverages. Can Jones look at one receiver in live action, recognize the various pieces on the field that may or may not make that receiver a viable target, then move on to another receiver and make that same real-time evaluation -- all within the tenth-of-seconds time he has to act before the situation changes?
I think that's the crux of the conversation about Jones. When the defense is in a favorable coverage and things go smoothly, Jones can be an effective QB.
When the post-snap picture doesn't match the pre-snap read, his processing isn't quite quick enough to adjust properly. I'm certain that Jones is smart enough that he can recognize what he "should have done" on a particular play even on the sideline right afterwards, but if that recognition doesn't occur almost instantly on the field, it's irrelevant.
He's also not great a buying himself time or ad-libbing when the pocket breaks down. Again, those are instinctive things that really can't be taught.
It's often been said that Jones was "pro ready" when he entered the draft, and that may very well be the case with his preparation and understanding of the concepts, but unless that translates into execution on the field, it really doesn't matter.
Dak has yet to win anything. One playoff win and rarely beats teams with winning records. He has the best OL in the NFL to go with great receivers. The running game averages almost 150 yds. a game. He was terrible in 2018 when Cowboy OL had injuries which hindered the run game and passing. I believe he is good but overrated @ $40M year.
I’d gladly swap offensive disasters.
They have 3 future hall of famers on that offense. The most physically gifted quarterback in the game, a guy threatening to be considered among the greatest tight ends to ever play, and a guy whose explosiveness as an offensive weapon is likely only rivaled by Randy Moss. Chiefs problems are on defense..they are as talented as anyone league wide on offense.