his mid-season grades for Giants offense on Great Blue North Draft Report. I suspect many will find his grades to be lenient (Jones gets a B), but still a good read. Giants mid-season grades (Offense) - ( New Window )
I'll just say I think he's an easy grader. Nothing lower than a C- on a team that is 24th in the NFL in scoring points. The only teams who have scored less points are a combined 16-52. He said Daniel Jones is as good as Eli. I don't agree with that.
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
I respect the amount of work Colin puts in, but I've found his analysis to be lacking in the draft and especially on the pro side of things.
"He's probably already better than his predecessor." This just comes off as emotional rather than analytical. You can twist the stats to make a whole slew of QBs (many unsuccessful starters) "better" than Eli, especially when looking at his early career. We also established that guys like Marcus Mariota and other 1st round failures have superior numbers to Daniel Jones. Are they all better than Eli too?
He will tell you the same. He knows more about QBs then any poster on this board.
I love Phil as a QB. HE was one tough SOB. And he played with worse WRs than Jones ever did. But Phil has been struggling as analysis. I hope his health is well.
And no - Jones isnt in Simms' stratosphere either.
He will tell you the same. He knows more about QBs then any poster on this board.
I love Phil as a QB. HE was one tough SOB. And he played with worse WRs than Jones ever did. But Phil has been struggling as analysis. I hope his health is well.
And no - Jones isnt in Simms' stratosphere either.
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
You're right. My mistake. Those analysis and experts are always right and never wrong. Why should we have opinions and just not adhere to everything they have to say.
My mistake.
Jones has had a tough set of circumstances to deal with
Eli really had much better support his first 3 years. Good TE who could block, Toomer and a OL that was developing into a outstanding unit with a outstanding and durable Barber in all facets. I also think Eli had a huge coaching advantage.
It is fair to question the supporting cast but we are where we are. The question has to move to if Jones is viable long term which I disagree with Colin. That big second contract means your QB has to be elite in today's NFL. There is enough data now to see how hard it becomes after a rookie QB's contract. In the end rebooting with another rookie QB may be the better play with hopefully a much better team around him at the start.
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
You're right. My mistake. Those analysis and experts are always right and never wrong. Why should we have opinions and just not adhere to everything they have to say.
My mistake.
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
Eric, I think he was being sarcastic referring to this:
Quote:
When ESPN reporter Chris Mortensen asked Tobin for his response to Mel Kiper's criticism during a post-draft interview, the Colts GM came ready to fire back.
"Who in the hell is Mel Kiper anyway?" asks Tobin. "Here's a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's got the answers to who you should take and who you shouldn't take. And my knowledge of him: he's never ever put on a jock strap, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's been an administrator and all of a sudden he's an expert."
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Nice job changing the topic. You were responding to how Simms said that Jones is the best player on the offense. You called Simms a bad analyst who is having health problems.
Colin puts up some good stuff and has good thoughts on BBI
The reason people keep harping on Damiel Jones being a bewlo average QB is shit pieces like this. People are still out there banging a narrative that people want to believe. And this has nothing to do with the narrative Jones has the worst OL in football and the skilled players arent that good.
It has to do with the fact that this moron thinks Daniel Jones is already better than a 2x NFL champion and a two times NFL SB MVP, who retired in the top 10 in yards and TDs.
Plus he also states that he will be here for a very long time - assuring that we should spend 30-35+ on a guy who doesnt score TDs and doesnt win games.
I mean this guy is fucking stealing money from the company he works with because it is obvious he isnt very good at his job.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Just ask Phil Simms
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Nice job changing the topic. You were responding to how Simms said that Jones is the best player on the offense. You called Simms a bad analyst who is having health problems.
Actually that’s not what I was referring to at all. I said the reason that Jones has been the best was because 5 better players haven’t played. And Simms is a bad analyst. There’s a reason why he took a serious demotion. He doesn’t sound fluid whatsoever.
Sorry if that’s offensive.
Dear God make it stop. The poster that brought up Simms was because Simms said Jones was the best player on the offense. You interpreted the Simms comment to mean that he said Jones is better than Eli. Know your facts (and what Simms actually said) before ignorantly arguing on a Internet forum and putting down an all-time great.. I’m done with this. Have a good day.
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
Yeah but who is he REALLY?! He's no NFL expert like GNEW!
Jones wouldn’t be hearing shit cause we would have won a lot of games.
Maybe, maybe not. But it begs the question is does Jones need the talent to up his game or does Jones raise the talent of those around him.
That is a false argument, question. It isn't a matter of raining up your starters, who may be average it is the fact that a LOT of average starters are injured and thus their backups, by nature of the status of the starters in question, must be below average. Seriously, you can't raise up 4 levels of status, maybe 2 and certainly 1 but 4? Many of you act like Jones should be able to make Slayton into Diggs, SS into Cooper Cupp, EE into Kelce.. Now imagine making the Collin Johnson's, CJ Board's, Kyle Rudolph (who is clearly slowed by that injury and age) into top tier guys- all at the same time.
I don't know about Jones yet but let the season play out. They haven't paid him yet, let the kid earn it. Hopefully he will have Thomas and Barkley back to help.
The crazy part of that piece? Will Hernandez has been the most consistent part of the OL. Will friggin Hernandez! That dude blows!
Have said we want Jones to make the players into the best players at their positions? Can you point that out?
How about we score consistently over 20 a game with our offense before we get to all-pro status?
The fact is over the last 23 games - Jones has thrown 19 TDs and 15 INTs. And we as a team have sucked during his time as a starter.
So if you’re willing to pay 30-35 million a year (going rate for a starter), then be my guess. The better value is to trade him for whatever we can get and either draft someone or find a guy like Trubisky or Mariotta for a lot less.
Giving him a 4th year doesn’t make sense.
RE: RE: RE: And if all those players didn’t get hurt
Jones wouldn’t be hearing shit cause we would have won a lot of games.
Maybe, maybe not. But it begs the question is does Jones need the talent to up his game or does Jones raise the talent of those around him.
That is a false argument, question. It isn't a matter of raining up your starters, who may be average it is the fact that a LOT of average starters are injured and thus their backups, by nature of the status of the starters in question, must be below average. Seriously, you can't raise up 4 levels of status, maybe 2 and certainly 1 but 4? Many of you act like Jones should be able to make Slayton into Diggs, SS into Cooper Cupp, EE into Kelce.. Now imagine making the Collin Johnson's, CJ Board's, Kyle Rudolph (who is clearly slowed by that injury and age) into top tier guys- all at the same time.
And to add to that, magically turning this OL into the 2007 OL just by being the QB...
I guess a lot of people really like the guy who wrote this…
I don’t know this guy, so, from an unbiased perspective I say that this analysis seems pretty forgiving. If the Giants offense doesn’t grade out as an F then which NFL offense is an F? Sure, there have been injuries. So what? Every other offense in the NFL is healthy? Injuries aren’t part of the game? Seems kind of like saying, “sure they got most of the questions on the test wrong but if they had studied they might have done really well”.
And to say that Daniel Jones is already better than Eli is just absurd. Seriously, this is supposed to be a legit and informed perspective because Jones achieved a higher completion percentage?
it's getting more and more difficult to find a credible football analyst that DOESN'T think Jones is doing a decent job given the circumstances, and a real evaluation is very difficult.
Even some of the things he appears to struggle with (bird-dogging, accuracy) can be due to hurrying to unload the ball. He doesn't have time to play games with the S's or scan the field. And the defense knows it. He is battling extremely difficult playing conditions.
Phil Simms threw 21 TD passes and 22 INTs. He led us to a Super Bowl victory that season.
I liked Simms as a player, but he wasn't perfect. Neither is Daniel Jones.
Let's not make the former out to be a perennial all-pro, because he wasn't. And let's not make the latter out to be the worst QB in history, because there's always the NY Jets.
As for Eli, he played consistently high level football only after the middle of his third year. In many ways, Jones is a little bit ahead of where Eli was when Minnesota picked him off four times in 2007.
I think Colin's take on things is right on the mark.
We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
and as Eric points out " Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here." and agree with Victor "It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here."
RE: RE: RE: RE: We don't respect media opinions here
We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
Then there's Simms, where people wanted to run him out of town in '86 with the second Dallas game, and that's when the Giants won.
his lead scout Larry Parker posted a mock draft earlier today. Giants had picks 7 and 9, which were used to draft DE George Karlaftis and OG Ikem Ekwonu. Larry Parker 2022 Mock Draft - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: We don't respect media opinions here
We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
Conjecture, but you could be right. Colin participates here, I will ask him to clarify next time he answers questions.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
Some people just can't post their opinion and then others post theirs. They have to go thread to thread, posting 20+ times the same things, basically shouting anyone with an opposing view down as stupid. What they don't get is eventually people stop responding on threads to them because there is not point. I've seen a guy or two complain that he is posting over and over his "facts" but no one is responding, well there is a reason for that. It is ruining the site
There’s the Texans who are clearly an F. We suck, so I still think a D would be more accurate but there’s other teams with less yards and points. Still, a C- isn’t indefensible.
The comment about Eli, I just don’t understand. Eli was a much better college QB, a consensus 1 pick coming into the draft and he at least gave some indication that he could win at the NFL level. He did have and should have had more runway than Jones and I would still argue he took off a lot sooner than Jones.
For any talk about BBI and pushing back on Colin’s grades, if you’re gonna write something like that about Eli and Jones I think you know full well how that’s going to be received by BBI and other Giants fans. I can’t imagine Colin is oblivious to the 10 or 15 daily BBI threads about Jones.
And to my eyes, BBI is lot cleaner these days then it was when we had all the politics and there’s a lot less personal attacks then I can remember over the past decade. Disagree it’s gotten worse and think it’s actually gotten much better.
Jones is better now than Eli was at the end of his career (when Jones replaced him). This is likely accurate. I didn't take it as Jones is better than Eli in his prime, or for his career.
DJ to Eli's first 3 or last 3 years. In that case it's possible that an argument can be made for the favorable comparison to Eli. But in Eli second and third years he showed that he can dominate games where he was just lights out. DJ has never showed that ability.
DJ to Eli's first 3 or last 3 years. In that case it's possible that an argument can be made for the favorable comparison to Eli. But in Eli second and third years he showed that he can dominate games where he was just lights out. DJ has never showed that ability.
Not hating Eli or loving Jones but Eli also had a starting OL with 148 starts out of a possible 160 in those years with some pretty damn good players.
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
DJ to Eli's first 3 or last 3 years. In that case it's possible that an argument can be made for the favorable comparison to Eli. But in Eli second and third years he showed that he can dominate games where he was just lights out. DJ has never showed that ability.
Not hating Eli or loving Jones but Eli also had a starting OL with 148 starts out of a possible 160 in those years with some pretty damn good players.
It's a great point. Even when Eli was bumbling around at times, the Giants remained ultra competitive because they controlled the LOS on both sides of the ball.
on offense we are 24th in ppg, scoring < 20ppg. Meanwhile, our supposed best player on offense, Jones, the QB, is 24th in the league in QBR (45.4), 22nd in YPA (7), and 22nd in AY/A (6.8). And he's on pace to have 16 TD passes. So as the guy who is supposed to be the difference maker, and with the such mediocre production, I have no idea how one can arrive at a "B" for Jones.
Jones's job is to score points and make other players better. Unfortunately, he's just not living up to that job description.
And with all due respect to Colin, how do you write this with a straight face:
Quote:
In the end, the Giants most consistent lineman this year has probably been RG Will Hernandez...
If anything, Hernandez is in the running as our worst OL.
how come whenever a writer takes the time and writes a piece
that some BBI'ers dont agree with, those same BBI'ers go to the ultimate level of extreme to rudely disagree and discredit that writer in multiple ways.
Its like most of you are never open to any other objective opinion then your own.
I define that as pretty weak critical thinking skills.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
I grew up on the Island too. Lake Grove. Went to Sachem. Where are you from??
RE: how come whenever a writer takes the time and writes a piece
that some BBI'ers dont agree with, those same BBI'ers go to the ultimate level of extreme to rudely disagree and discredit that writer in multiple ways.
Its like most of you are never open to any other objective opinion then your own.
I define that as pretty weak critical thinking skills.
thanks Colin appreciate all your work on BBI.
Colin is a big boy. I mean, if you are going to put content out there, prepare to have it reviewed and criticized. So he can handle the criticism.
I'm just glad he's finally come to his senses and taken Kedon Slovis out of the first round. What a disaster he's been for USC... ;)
the good things about former players (for good reason) The flaws fade and we are left with memories of glory. The truth regarding Eli is that he was very mediocre his last 4 years with the Giants. Mostly because he was surrounded by a crappy team. Jones is has much more ability to improvise and be a threat to run...than Eli ever had. Eli did not have a running game in any shape or form.
Colin knows more about football than anyone here....except Terps of course ;-)
Or better yet - who the fuck is Colin Lindsay?
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
Jones is the best player on offense, that needs to be said more often even if a couple of you complain all the time about him.
I would have given the offensive line a little lower score but it isn't a F. The run game against the Raiders was very good without Barkley.
Slayton has taken a step back and and Engram is hit or miss.
Or better yet - who the fuck is Colin Lindsay?
Get ready for the pile on. You may want to duck
That would put us at the middle of the pack, which we clearly aren't.
We are a bottom third offense.
I'd give DJ a C+
TEs and OL would be in the D range.
"He's probably already better than his predecessor." This just comes off as emotional rather than analytical. You can twist the stats to make a whole slew of QBs (many unsuccessful starters) "better" than Eli, especially when looking at his early career. We also established that guys like Marcus Mariota and other 1st round failures have superior numbers to Daniel Jones. Are they all better than Eli too?
Maybe, maybe not. But it begs the question is does Jones need the talent to up his game or does Jones raise the talent of those around him.
I love Phil as a QB. HE was one tough SOB. And he played with worse WRs than Jones ever did. But Phil has been struggling as analysis. I hope his health is well.
And no - Jones isnt in Simms' stratosphere either.
Absolutely agree there.
Eli would be roughed up in this offense most likely though, DJ's movement/legs do save him occasionally.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Quote:
He will tell you the same. He knows more about QBs then any poster on this board.
I love Phil as a QB. HE was one tough SOB. And he played with worse WRs than Jones ever did. But Phil has been struggling as analysis. I hope his health is well.
And no - Jones isnt in Simms' stratosphere either.
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
Quote:
He will tell you the same. He knows more about QBs then any poster on this board.
But Phil has been struggling as analysis. I hope his health is well.
Struggling as analysis eh?
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
You're right. My mistake. Those analysis and experts are always right and never wrong. Why should we have opinions and just not adhere to everything they have to say.
My mistake.
It is fair to question the supporting cast but we are where we are. The question has to move to if Jones is viable long term which I disagree with Colin. That big second contract means your QB has to be elite in today's NFL. There is enough data now to see how hard it becomes after a rookie QB's contract. In the end rebooting with another rookie QB may be the better play with hopefully a much better team around him at the start.
Quote:
Lmao. Ok. I’ll learned today that I should neglect Simms’ opinion and believe what internet poster and expert GNewGiants has to say. Got it. The internet is so helpful!
You're right. My mistake. Those analysis and experts are always right and never wrong. Why should we have opinions and just not adhere to everything they have to say.
My mistake.
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Quote:
who the fuck cares what Colin Lindsay thinks?
Or better yet - who the fuck is Colin Lindsay?
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
Eric, I think he was being sarcastic referring to this:
"Who in the hell is Mel Kiper anyway?" asks Tobin. "Here's a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's got the answers to who you should take and who you shouldn't take. And my knowledge of him: he's never ever put on a jock strap, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's been an administrator and all of a sudden he's an expert."
Quote:
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Nice job changing the topic. You were responding to how Simms said that Jones is the best player on the offense. You called Simms a bad analyst who is having health problems.
These grades are probably a bit too generous, and the comment with respect to Eli is eye-rolling to say the least.
In comment 15449910 GNewGiants said:
It has to do with the fact that this moron thinks Daniel Jones is already better than a 2x NFL champion and a two times NFL SB MVP, who retired in the top 10 in yards and TDs.
Plus he also states that he will be here for a very long time - assuring that we should spend 30-35+ on a guy who doesnt score TDs and doesnt win games.
I mean this guy is fucking stealing money from the company he works with because it is obvious he isnt very good at his job.
Quote:
In comment 15449991 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15449988 Dukie Dimes said:
Quote:
No. It’s that you come here with an opinion that has no basis in fact and then disparage someone who has been around the game all his life and knows more than you’ll ever know. If you don’t see the problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no basis that Eli Manning was a better QB than what Daniel Jones is? Okay, buddy. The mere fact that is being discussed doesnt even deserve a response.
But if people want Jones that bad as a QB - they will pretty much say anything to justify it. I think that has been proven...
Nice job changing the topic. You were responding to how Simms said that Jones is the best player on the offense. You called Simms a bad analyst who is having health problems.
Actually that’s not what I was referring to at all. I said the reason that Jones has been the best was because 5 better players haven’t played. And Simms is a bad analyst. There’s a reason why he took a serious demotion. He doesn’t sound fluid whatsoever.
Sorry if that’s offensive.
Dear God make it stop. The poster that brought up Simms was because Simms said Jones was the best player on the offense. You interpreted the Simms comment to mean that he said Jones is better than Eli. Know your facts (and what Simms actually said) before ignorantly arguing on a Internet forum and putting down an all-time great.. I’m done with this. Have a good day.
I wish he would provide a grade for the Offensive Coordinator
The Red Zone Offensive play calling alone deserves an F
Lets just see when the Offense gets healthy if the play calling remains the same uninspired self.
I wish he would provide a grade for the Offensive Coordinator
The Red Zone Offensive play calling alone deserves an F
Lets just see when the Offense gets healthy if the play calling remains the same uninspired self.
Quote:
who the fuck cares what Colin Lindsay thinks?
Or better yet - who the fuck is Colin Lindsay?
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
Yeah but who is he REALLY?! He's no NFL expert like GNEW!
Quote:
Jones wouldn’t be hearing shit cause we would have won a lot of games.
Maybe, maybe not. But it begs the question is does Jones need the talent to up his game or does Jones raise the talent of those around him.
That is a false argument, question. It isn't a matter of raining up your starters, who may be average it is the fact that a LOT of average starters are injured and thus their backups, by nature of the status of the starters in question, must be below average. Seriously, you can't raise up 4 levels of status, maybe 2 and certainly 1 but 4? Many of you act like Jones should be able to make Slayton into Diggs, SS into Cooper Cupp, EE into Kelce.. Now imagine making the Collin Johnson's, CJ Board's, Kyle Rudolph (who is clearly slowed by that injury and age) into top tier guys- all at the same time.
The crazy part of that piece? Will Hernandez has been the most consistent part of the OL. Will friggin Hernandez! That dude blows!
How about we score consistently over 20 a game with our offense before we get to all-pro status?
The fact is over the last 23 games - Jones has thrown 19 TDs and 15 INTs. And we as a team have sucked during his time as a starter.
So if you’re willing to pay 30-35 million a year (going rate for a starter), then be my guess. The better value is to trade him for whatever we can get and either draft someone or find a guy like Trubisky or Mariotta for a lot less.
Giving him a 4th year doesn’t make sense.
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In comment 15449954 Carl in CT said:
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Jones wouldn’t be hearing shit cause we would have won a lot of games.
Maybe, maybe not. But it begs the question is does Jones need the talent to up his game or does Jones raise the talent of those around him.
That is a false argument, question. It isn't a matter of raining up your starters, who may be average it is the fact that a LOT of average starters are injured and thus their backups, by nature of the status of the starters in question, must be below average. Seriously, you can't raise up 4 levels of status, maybe 2 and certainly 1 but 4? Many of you act like Jones should be able to make Slayton into Diggs, SS into Cooper Cupp, EE into Kelce.. Now imagine making the Collin Johnson's, CJ Board's, Kyle Rudolph (who is clearly slowed by that injury and age) into top tier guys- all at the same time.
And to add to that, magically turning this OL into the 2007 OL just by being the QB...
And to say that Daniel Jones is already better than Eli is just absurd. Seriously, this is supposed to be a legit and informed perspective because Jones achieved a higher completion percentage?
Are we sure this guy isn’t on the Giants payroll?
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
That said, id guess a C- in low tier is F/ F+ in a composite tier.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
Even some of the things he appears to struggle with (bird-dogging, accuracy) can be due to hurrying to unload the ball. He doesn't have time to play games with the S's or scan the field. And the defense knows it. He is battling extremely difficult playing conditions.
I liked Simms as a player, but he wasn't perfect. Neither is Daniel Jones.
Let's not make the former out to be a perennial all-pro, because he wasn't. And let's not make the latter out to be the worst QB in history, because there's always the NY Jets.
As for Eli, he played consistently high level football only after the middle of his third year. In many ways, Jones is a little bit ahead of where Eli was when Minnesota picked him off four times in 2007.
I think Colin's take on things is right on the mark.
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We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
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In comment 15450040 Thegratefulhead said:
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We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
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In comment 15450075 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 15450040 Thegratefulhead said:
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We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
Then there's Simms, where people wanted to run him out of town in '86 with the second Dallas game, and that's when the Giants won.
Larry Parker 2022 Mock Draft - ( New Window )
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In comment 15450075 bigblue5611 said:
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In comment 15450040 Thegratefulhead said:
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We just don't. There is not a reporter or analyst anyone agrees on. I appreciate Colin's contributions here. More than that I value them.
I like QBs that score.
He loses a great deal of credibility with me saying he already better than Eli.
It is absurd to say. Based on what? I would like to see him back that up with some statements.
Read it again. He never says Jones is already better than Eli. He says Jones is "probably already as good as predecessor".
I concede that but my comments still applies. 2 time SB winning MVP, Pro Bowl MVP. Jones is 10-24 with more turnovers than TDs. Nope, not as good. Not close.
I don't believe that's where the comparison lies. I believe this is strictly a comparison to where Eli was at this point (2 1/2 years in) vs where Jones currently is in his career. I don't think it's as far off as many think. Eli with a much stronger and more consistent (especially in the health dept) supporting cast vs what Jones has worked with and yet people were still ready to run Eli out of town for games like the Minn game in 07 before the SB run.
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What Eric said.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
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In comment 15449939 Bill2 said:
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What Eric said.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
Some people just can't post their opinion and then others post theirs. They have to go thread to thread, posting 20+ times the same things, basically shouting anyone with an opposing view down as stupid. What they don't get is eventually people stop responding on threads to them because there is not point. I've seen a guy or two complain that he is posting over and over his "facts" but no one is responding, well there is a reason for that. It is ruining the site
The comment about Eli, I just don’t understand. Eli was a much better college QB, a consensus 1 pick coming into the draft and he at least gave some indication that he could win at the NFL level. He did have and should have had more runway than Jones and I would still argue he took off a lot sooner than Jones.
For any talk about BBI and pushing back on Colin’s grades, if you’re gonna write something like that about Eli and Jones I think you know full well how that’s going to be received by BBI and other Giants fans. I can’t imagine Colin is oblivious to the 10 or 15 daily BBI threads about Jones.
And to my eyes, BBI is lot cleaner these days then it was when we had all the politics and there’s a lot less personal attacks then I can remember over the past decade. Disagree it’s gotten worse and think it’s actually gotten much better.
Not hating Eli or loving Jones but Eli also had a starting OL with 148 starts out of a possible 160 in those years with some pretty damn good players.
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who the fuck cares what Colin Lindsay thinks?
Or better yet - who the fuck is Colin Lindsay?
Colin has been a major part of this site since nearly its inception. He annually hosts Draft chats on BBI and is well respected by nearly everyone here.
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DJ to Eli's first 3 or last 3 years. In that case it's possible that an argument can be made for the favorable comparison to Eli. But in Eli second and third years he showed that he can dominate games where he was just lights out. DJ has never showed that ability.
Not hating Eli or loving Jones but Eli also had a starting OL with 148 starts out of a possible 160 in those years with some pretty damn good players.
It's a great point. Even when Eli was bumbling around at times, the Giants remained ultra competitive because they controlled the LOS on both sides of the ball.
That said, I'm not sure that the surrounding cast allows us the opportunity to evaluate his ability to evaluate how he processes.
Jones's job is to score points and make other players better. Unfortunately, he's just not living up to that job description.
And with all due respect to Colin, how do you write this with a straight face:
If anything, Hernandez is in the running as our worst OL.
Its like most of you are never open to any other objective opinion then your own.
I define that as pretty weak critical thinking skills.
thanks Colin appreciate all your work on BBI.
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In comment 15449939 Bill2 said:
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What Eric said.
exactly! It's amazing anyone contributes anymore with nonsense and vitriol spewed here.
Having grown up on Long Island I have a whole group of friends that are Giant fans ad to a man everyone of them at the least lurked on this site if not posted. Now it's only myself and one other that still check in regularly. When it comes up I always get answers like" that place is toxic" or " every discussion gets hijacked by idiots". Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done, hopefully the team will start winning and change the tone of the board.
I grew up on the Island too. Lake Grove. Went to Sachem. Where are you from??
Its like most of you are never open to any other objective opinion then your own.
I define that as pretty weak critical thinking skills.
thanks Colin appreciate all your work on BBI.
Colin is a big boy. I mean, if you are going to put content out there, prepare to have it reviewed and criticized. So he can handle the criticism.
I'm just glad he's finally come to his senses and taken Kedon Slovis out of the first round. What a disaster he's been for USC... ;)
Colin knows more about football than anyone here....except Terps of course ;-)