Revisiting 2021 first round trade

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It would have been Tucker. Not saying I agree with it or not.

We traded the 11th pick for the 20th pick and what looks like a top ten pick in this draft coming up plus the other picks. Its a no brainer the trade was awesome for the Giants.

Were suddenly going to make us a much better team this year and we will likely have a Top 10 pick from Chicago

To jump from 20 to 11 to get their franchise QB.

and take Parsons. No the Giants aren't winning more games with Parsons this year, but he is looking like a guy you can build around.

Toney looks to be a good player but just not as important as a defender like Parsons.

In comment 15455582 Chip said:

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We traded the 11th pick for the 20th pick and what looks like a top ten pick in this draft coming up plus the other picks. Its a no brainer the trade was awesome for the Giants.

No brainer? Parsons is a DPOY candidate. It's anything but a no brainer.

The more I watch football the more I am convinced that quality > quantity.

I'd have to think long and hard about this one, but I may say fuck all that extra crap and give me Parsons. THANK GOD we got a first next year or i'd be losing my shit if we just stood pat and took Toney or whoever.

Not to mention, if we get Parsons dallas isn't steamrolling to the #1 seed. And that fucking blows.

said the same thing last offseason ill say it again now, the Giants need to focus on getting difference makers. Fuck the holes and weak spots. DIFFERENCE MAKERS. Guys who ruin games or win games. Not these good players that might fill a hole after 1-2 years. Trade, sign, steal or cheap I don't care, get fucking stars in here. You win titles with star power.

but cheap works too.

Parsons >>> Toney

The one mitigating factor is the extra #1 in 2022, that could soften the blow for me. But, gun to my head I would've picked Parsons, he's a franchise talent.

I'm proud of ya!

But you have to hit on those picks...

Both Parsons and Slater look like All Pro players... we passed on both. Damn. Early to tell... but looks like a mistake right now.

In comment 15455589 Producer said:

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To jump from 20 to 11 to get their franchise QB.

I get you, but how do you know we aren't winning more games with Parsons? We don't win that game in Washington? We don't get ONE stop in those 2 games thanks to a bad ass front seven player like Parsons? We might be 5-5 right now with Parsons here, assuming these wing nuts here knew how to deploy him.

In comment 15455600 JonC said:

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I'm proud of ya!

I was there with you all spring screaming or echoing your shouts to pick this guy.

I am not always blinded by the blue, lol...I usually speak truthful objective but I am a dreamer too...I want to believe in my teams UNTIL they shit the bed and then I accept and would make the hard decisions.

but a lot comes down to what that pick ends up being. So i'm staying pat unless somehow Chicago has us picking in the teens.

and we take a front four maniac with that pick, then I will sleep well at night with this trade.

Toney has shown to be am elite weapon with significant upside.

Slater is better than expected, but getting a top OL with the pick from Chicago is a reasonable expectation.

Parsons is a player, but not sure how we would have used him. Regardless, IMO Toney + Chi 1st rounder > Pasrsons

but the guy has 28 NFL catches for 352 yards halfway through the season. He has exactly one 100 yard receiving game.
"Elite weapon" is way too premature.

In comment 15455593 djm said:

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In comment 15455582 Chip said: Quote: We traded the 11th pick for the 20th pick and what looks like a top ten pick in this draft coming up plus the other picks. Its a no brainer the trade was awesome for the Giants. No brainer? Parsons is a DPOY candidate. It's anything but a no brainer. The more I watch football the more I am convinced that quality > quantity. I'd have to think long and hard about this one, but I may say fuck all that extra crap and give me Parsons. THANK GOD we got a first next year or i'd be losing my shit if we just stood pat and took Toney or whoever. Not to mention, if we get Parsons dallas isn't steamrolling to the #1 seed. And that fucking blows.

Agreed on all points. Man, Parsons is a fucking animal.

In comment 15455603 djm said:

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In comment 15455589 Producer said: Quote: To jump from 20 to 11 to get their franchise QB. I get you, but how do you know we aren't winning more games with Parsons? We don't win that game in Washington? We don't get ONE stop in those 2 games thanks to a bad ass front seven player like Parsons? We might be 5-5 right now with Parsons here, assuming these wing nuts here knew how to deploy him.

I like the trade. But wish we got one more high pick. At the time I wanted Slater. Parsons obviously would have been a great pick too.

but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.

.

This is a pretty good question because people here seem very split on this.

must start attacking with more vertical routes, especially the deeper outer thirds versus a cover two. You gotta make the backend uncomfortable. Giants tend to make it easy on a defense.

Give them time, OL!

for making the trade, for now.

But, Parsons is legit and exactly the type or game changer NYG sorely lacks.

I was in favor of Parsons but we have to see what next years picks produces from both trade downs. One draft can drastically change a team. Don't discount that 3rd rounder from Miami as well in the 2nd round trade down.

I think they will trade down again in the 1st if possible. Its a deep draft.

I think Toney has a chance to be really good. His value will be more apparent with a true 1 receiver and when they can run the ball more consistently. This guy exploiting the underneath stuff is deadly.

I would rather he torment Dallas. In addition, the odds of a receiver getting injured are greater than the odds of an edge rusher getting injured. I would not have made the trade.

Giants weren't drafting Parsons, at least not at #11. He had too many character concerns. DG couldn't risk another Baker fiasco. Toney of course also had character concerns, which is why I wanted Paye. But Toney was picked at #20 and after we had already acquired Chicago's #1 next year.

Toney plus all the picks we got from Chicago is also more valuable than Slater. But I agree that conclusion assumes we get an impact player from Chicago's #1 next yea, which is why I think this discussion is at least slightly premature.

caliber LT to stabilize our sieve OL.

Easy answer for me...Slater was the right pick.

I think I remember JonC and one other poster who were equally sold but said they'd never take him.

I liked the trade down in theory but overall even if Toney pans out results wise he seems like another guy already that may be dangerous to pay. Not durable, potential distraction etc.

I was beating the drum for the OL for this exact reason. We had to see what Jones is. I think we have but I can see the argument for the OL being garbage (but that is very much a self inflicted wound)

Regardless what the Giants seem not to understand is something many on this site have. You build the OL and get your QB and then you fill in the skill positions which can be rather fungible if you get those other two things right.

I honestly can't even believe we are heading for another year where the claims are "you can't evaluate the QB" with the amount of resources we invested in skill positions seemingly for that purpose.

It is the Golladay and Toney thing that is really confounding and even a bit enraging. It's like they are so busy plugging one hole on the boat that there are others holes in the boat that they are ignoring.

And then they act like they know things the fans don't about the holes they are ignoring.

How anyone looks at the way we allocate assets and has any degree of confidence in these people at this point is truly a feat of blind optimism.

versus the two in the bush.

Truth is the trade is made with the idea of maximizing the chances of getting a Parsons type player. You hope to get 2. Or at least one and a second really good one.

Once you know you have the Parsons level, you are sort of changing the equation. At the draft, Parsons was just a prospect. Now he is showing he is more than that. So do you take the certainty of now over the maximizing chances of then? Probably. But if you nail the picks, you win the trade no matter what they did.

bw might have been the Slater champion you refer to, NGD.

In comment 15455688 bw in dc said:

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caliber LT to stabilize our sieve OL. Easy answer for me...Slater was the right pick.

I thought it might be you who also really wanted Slater, I seem to remember that. Honestly I only remember the JonC thing more because he tends to have good info and I remember thinking well that sucks that we had zero interest in him

an elite weapon.

But I've been watching football for 45+ years and I trust my judgement on this one.

Feel free to bust my chops if he disproves that.

He was not popular going into the draft with his issues he had in college. He was not popular everyone was hell bent with getting a wide receiver such as Smith. Hindsight being 20 20 everyone is a great drafter.

probably would have taken AVT at #11, but would have been fine with Slater.

I thought Slater a great solution for the OL because of his versatility to literally play every position, especially for a coach like Judge who preaches his preference for multiple players.

As a lifelong PSU fan, Parsons ability jumped off the screen. The off the field concerns were personality based. And for the Giants, God forbid they manage a great talent with a big personality...

Ironically, we drafted a player with more baggage in Toney...

if they get Toney and an Edge or stud OL next year its clearly a win win

Keep the trade. I like Toney a lot. This draft class is stocked full of pass rushers and pass protectors at the top.

In comment 15455613 gersh said:

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Toney has shown to be am elite weapon with significant upside. Slater is better than expected, but getting a top OL with the pick from Chicago is a reasonable expectation. Parsons is a player, but not sure how we would have used him. Regardless, IMO Toney + Chi 1st rounder > Pasrsons

toney has played meaningful snaps in like what, 3-4 games? the only one where he made a difference he had glennon throwing him the ball (189 yards). over half of his production on the season came from that one game.

they traded the fifth they got from chicago to move up and draft a player who has yet to play one game.

the other two picks (2022 1st and 4th) haven't been made yet and it's a crapshoot whether either will amount to anything, and we all know the giants recent history of horrifically botching first round draft picks (jones, baker, barkley, engram, flowers, apple, etc etc).

i'd've rather they picked parsons

especially since we were able nab Ojulari at 50, who is still one full year younger than Parsons.

an additional 1st or 2nd round pick from Chicago to jump 9 spots for their franchise QB?

I said it in April, draft Parsons.

No hindsight for me as well. Would I trade Toney and a future 1st pick for Parsons?

If that pick is outside of the top 10, yup I’d do that.

has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board.

It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole.

Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.

In comment 15455613 gersh said:

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Toney has shown to be am elite weapon with significant upside. Slater is better than expected, but getting a top OL with the pick from Chicago is a reasonable expectation. Parsons is a player, but not sure how we would have used him. Regardless, IMO Toney + Chi 1st rounder > Pasrsons

Man Giants fan have watched too much bad football recently. Toney is not an elite weapon.

- Getting a top OL next is not a reasonable expectation. Just look at the Giants recent 1st round picks.

- Not sure how the Giants could use Parsons? Seriously?

but Parsons is a gamewrecker, no comparison yet.

but we might have taken Vera-Tucker or Toney or Kwity Paye!

I think Toney can become an elite WR and if the Bears can go 6-11 or so then there's another stud next year. I'm fine with the trade.

In comment 15455770 JonC said:

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has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board. It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole. Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.

This is absolutely the truth. Go and look at the current GBN thread and all the talk is about drafting OT and EDGE.

Draft players, not positions.

We got a offensive weapon, a possible CB starter or at least back up, and , needing ER and OL, fell into a draft deep in IOL and strong in the top 3-5 ER, with an extra pick along with our own, likely both to be in the top 16.
And other trades that give us bites at more OL apple, or wherever they see fit.
Bears may have a franchise QB, but the team needed to try to better itself with talented youth.
I’m OK with the trade.
The scouts and analytics better be ‘on’.