Knowing what you know now, would you stay put, get the bears 2022 first and fourth round picks, draft Toney and use the bears 2021 5th rounder to move up for Aaron Robinson? Or would you mix the whole thing and get Slater or Parsons?
but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board.
It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole.
Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.
This is absolutely the truth. Go and look at the current GBN thread and all the talk is about drafting OT and EDGE.
Draft players, not positions.
amazing how the constant harping about not getting the line corrected is ignored when convenient. Would Parson have been help, probably. Would Slater have helped - absolutely. Does Toney and a second #1 help - remains to be seen. Toney looks real. Having 2 #1s in 2022 should help more with the right GM calling the shots.
I wanted Parsons and would take him in a heartbeat over the pick
Same for Slater. The pick is nice, I don't hate it, but I feel like they maybe got a little too cute. Toney has flashed but nothing that indicates long term building block. Meanwhile the OL is still in shambles and the defense lacks an identity and tone setter.
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
Garrett gets paid to find a way. They don't have to win the games, they can still be a losing team, but they must show something more competent than current product which is cellar dweller quality. Can't just sit around and point fingers and wish it away. If that's the case start cleaning house.
RE: I wanted Parsons and would take him in a heartbeat over the pick
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
That's a very good point. Having more and more picks doesn't mean success (sure, the more attempts might lead to the blind squirrel finding a nut outcome...).
What matters, and let me makes sure my Captain Obvious hat is on securely, it hitting on the picks.
Look at the Rams. They constantly trade picks and end-up with fewer and fewer picks per draft. But what Snead/McVey do well is hit on their limited picks.
If you believe Parsons was the pick (rumor was the team had reservations about his character) then the question becomes is
Parson > Toney + 2021 Bears 1st rounder?
Lets say that 2021 Bears 1st rounder allows the Giants to get a stud ER or stud OL player, then the combination of Toney and the extra 1st rounder makes it a good trade.
RE: RE: I wanted Parsons and would take him in a heartbeat over the pick
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
That's a very good point. Having more and more picks doesn't mean success (sure, the more attempts might lead to the blind squirrel finding a nut outcome...).
What matters, and let me makes sure my Captain Obvious hat is on securely, it hitting on the picks.
Look at the Rams. They constantly trade picks and end-up with fewer and fewer picks per draft. But what Snead/McVey do well is hit on their limited picks.
They also now have a smaller window in which to win and if they do not get at least one SB win, there will be hell to pay with a limited way out.
Not sure how to look at the Rams. Good, yes. Great, maybe. Sure fire NFC Champ, could be?
but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
Garrett gets paid to find a way. They don't have to win the games, they can still be a losing team, but they must show something more competent than current product which is cellar dweller quality. Can't just sit around and point fingers and wish it away. If that's the case start cleaning house.
has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board.
It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole.
Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.
This is absolutely the truth. Go and look at the current GBN thread and all the talk is about drafting OT and EDGE.
Draft players, not positions.
amazing how the constant harping about not getting the line corrected is ignored when convenient. Would Parson have been help, probably. Would Slater have helped - absolutely. Does Toney and a second #1 help - remains to be seen. Toney looks real. Having 2 #1s in 2022 should help more with the right GM calling the shots.
Section125 actually with the correct sentiment as to the OL.
All season long when the bad OL product is on the field, everybody criticizes the GM and says the Giants absolutely have to prioritize Offensive Line in the next draft.
And then when Spring rolls around the majority of those fans see all the cool, shiny toys in the Draft window and pocket their feelings about the OL. At least until the season starts and they see the bad product continue and then they blame the GM again.
but his value on the football field is nowhere near Parsons'. He shows promise and checks a box for the talent-starved Giants with some style admist another bleak, painful season of poor offense. But, ...
It's just been done really poorly. Solder, Thomas, Zeitler, Hernandez, Peart, Omameh, Lemieux...and I'm probably missing others - that's a significant investment in a period of only three offseasons ('18, '19, '20).
It's been terribly put together, and the OL players themselves haven't been helped by Garrett (scheme) or Jones and Barkley (execution).
This is the nuts and bolts of why the Giants are a bad team. It's not just one or two mistakes. The policies that are in place are deeply flawed and really in a deeply flawed product.
Recall seeing him a few times now letting his emotions get the best of him. Occurred late in the WFT game and he got a good lecture from Judge and stormed off to the bench. Then of course he threw a punch and got ejected from the Dallas game a few weeks later.
Keep in mind that he hasn't exactly played that many games/snaps yet. Maybe he is frustrated with his role, or the injuries or maybe it's just who he is going to be in the heat of battle. Good luck with that..
Parsons is a great talent but before the draft I heard he was not in the Giants plans because of character. So not making the trade doesnt mean he all of the sudden would have been a pick.
Slater is another player that shows promise but again I heard we had no interest.
Could the info on both players have been wrong absolutely.
Toney didnt practice all offseason but he flashes. Maybe he is nothing more than a gimmick guy. Who knows yet. I think he has to be evaluated more.
Based on the info at the time, I think it was a great trade.
Based on the info we have now, I think you could have gone either route and been successful. All 3 seem to be players with strong careers ahead. I think Toney and the top 10 pick is still the way to go. I dont know what the draft will be like yet but I think Toney will be a good player and we still have the potential to get a great one.
I do think we have to get back to drafting the best available regardless of position like others have said. Injuries take a strong position and make it weak in a heartbeat. Getting players other teams have to gameplan around is important. Right now we have very few players in that category so when you have a chance to get one you have to take it. I personally dont think either Parsons or Slater was considered cant miss at the time.
Sy had Slater pegged as at 85 and at Guard
Sy had Parsons at 84
Sy had Toney at 77 but also mentioned some teams had him in top 5
I wish it were that simple but you know it isn't. Toney has had a couple big games. The picks are a completely unknown commodity and there is no guarantee the organization will hit on them. Meanwhile Parsons is the presumptive defensive rookie of the year and has been the exact type of player this defense sorely needs.
Ultimately the jury is still out and talking with any kind of certainty is kind of foolish.
First, I think the club would have been helped big time by either Slater or Parsons especially Slater. One stud on the OL would have made a huge difference. But, if you want the extra 1 in 2022, the Giants would have been better off with Darrislaw, the big tackle. He may not be Slater but he’s a huge upgrade over Peart and that would have helped big time and maybe more if Peart could play inside. Toney has skills but more in the gadget department and that’s a luxury for a bad team.
Of course Parsons and Slater have shown themselves
Slater was the right pick. This should be especially obvious to all the “DJ needs a better line folks”. We could at least have evaluated DJ behind much better protection. Look at Dallas with their line. Draft quality players at the most important and most expensive positions. It’s a mystery why Getty said he was going to fix the O line yet passes on a really safe bet like RS and especially so because RS was projected as a guy who could play every position along the line. Seriously, how much better is this team with just the addition of RS? I think we’re a lot better and the future is also much clearer.
As far as Tooney, it’s way too soon to tell if he’s going to be a great player. But even if he is, there’s lot of receivers available in the every draft and quality play makers get drafted at WR out of the top 20 every year.
Having said all this, I’m not killing Getty for the trade. It’s defensible and may still wind up being a positive. But, then again, Getty is such a lousy GM he’s graded on a curve here.
The Giants cashed 2 big chips on WR, and a medium chip on TE.
I take this a direct reaction to Judge saying Jones needed better weapons and better coaching. Doesn’t seem like Judge made much movement on the latter, but Gettleman did on the former.
I like Toney, but he’s a joystick guy right now. I’d rather the “weapon” reps go to Barkley. I agree with Jon, he’s got to be a complete receiver. There’s a graveyard of joystick guys who never became WRs. TBD on Toney.
No one’s ever regretted bookend tackles or a 3-down linebacker. Higher floors.
DG mocks people and says things like the below quote. You only get that brash and overconfident if the people around you agree with what you are doing. If JJ isn't saying "I need a better OL to see what I've got in DJ" then he isn't doing his job either.
The whole sequence of events is maddening. The fan base and media raising enough noise about the continued poor results trying to put the right offensive line and depth together that it merits a response then the guy basically mocking the idea as if this team that has not at all recently shown they are smarter than anyone still thinks they are smarter than everyone.
(May 2021) “It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen than you guys do. So I’m just going to say we’re happy with the group that we have."
was having the capital to move up if the Giants needed a QB in 2022. Thankfully it looks like DJ will at least be serviceable past this year, but at the time of the draft the Giants needed to have Plan B. Having two top ten pics would have made getting a QB much easier.
i think i would do the trade again i would do it again. Parsons looks very good as does Slater, but when Toney has been healthy he has basically been uncoverable and a big weapon for us. Let's not forget that amongst the talk about Parsons and Slater. Toney has a really bright future.
The extra first rounder which could be really high plus the late round pick is definitely worth taking Toney over those guys IMO.
I think I remember JonC and one other poster who were equally sold but said they'd never take him.
I liked the trade down in theory but overall even if Toney pans out results wise he seems like another guy already that may be dangerous to pay. Not durable, potential distraction etc.
I was beating the drum for the OL for this exact reason. We had to see what Jones is. I think we have but I can see the argument for the OL being garbage (but that is very much a self inflicted wound)
Regardless what the Giants seem not to understand is something many on this site have. You build the OL and get your QB and then you fill in the skill positions which can be rather fungible if you get those other two things right.
I honestly can't even believe we are heading for another year where the claims are "you can't evaluate the QB" with the amount of resources we invested in skill positions seemingly for that purpose.
It is the Golladay and Toney thing that is really confounding and even a bit enraging. It's like they are so busy plugging one hole on the boat that there are others holes in the boat that they are ignoring.
And then they act like they know things the fans don't about the holes they are ignoring.
How anyone looks at the way we allocate assets and has any degree of confidence in these people at this point is truly a feat of blind optimism.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000
If we were going to pick at that spot and not trade down, I wanted Slater. Argued a ton with many on here that either wanted Paye or wanted a WR. There was very little discussion on Parsons because he had off-field issues and Giants don't tend to go with that.
The OL to me was and is the most critical.
With that said, I do love the 2022 shot of if they love a QB.
GreatDayne nails it with DG's arrogance yet someone that has been so awful.
RE: The big thing to me is that in some of these press conferences where
DG mocks people and says things like the below quote. You only get that brash and overconfident if the people around you agree with what you are doing. If JJ isn't saying "I need a better OL to see what I've got in DJ" then he isn't doing his job either.
The whole sequence of events is maddening. The fan base and media raising enough noise about the continued poor results trying to put the right offensive line and depth together that it merits a response then the guy basically mocking the idea as if this team that has not at all recently shown they are smarter than anyone still thinks they are smarter than everyone.
(May 2021) “It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen than you guys do. So I’m just going to say we’re happy with the group that we have."
Dave Gettleman’s failed promises - ( New Window )
This has just been a microcosm of the asshole he's been since he came aboard.
Parsons is a great talent but before the draft I heard he was not in the Giants plans because of character. So not making the trade doesnt mean he all of the sudden would have been a pick.
Slater is another player that shows promise but again I heard we had no interest.
Could the info on both players have been wrong absolutely.
Toney didnt practice all offseason but he flashes. Maybe he is nothing more than a gimmick guy. Who knows yet. I think he has to be evaluated more.
Based on the info at the time, I think it was a great trade.
Based on the info we have now, I think you could have gone either route and been successful. All 3 seem to be players with strong careers ahead. I think Toney and the top 10 pick is still the way to go. I dont know what the draft will be like yet but I think Toney will be a good player and we still have the potential to get a great one.
I do think we have to get back to drafting the best available regardless of position like others have said. Injuries take a strong position and make it weak in a heartbeat. Getting players other teams have to gameplan around is important. Right now we have very few players in that category so when you have a chance to get one you have to take it. I personally dont think either Parsons or Slater was considered cant miss at the time.
Sy had Slater pegged as at 85 and at Guard
Sy had Parsons at 84
Sy had Toney at 77 but also mentioned some teams had him in top 5
Depends on your definition of "can't miss" but I thought both were considered can't miss to a degree which is why they were in the discussions of being drafted early.
Even if the tackle can’t cut it — you have a guard.
Want to really make some heads explode here? The last two 1st round tackles Reese drafted are two of the better blocking guards in the NFL. Today.
You really can't make it up...can you?
But that's an excellent point about OLT. You can always move them inside, or to the other T side.
True... but then you used a top pick for a guard. Not sure why we simply cannot draft tackles. Hopefully Thomas changes that for us.
Meanwhile, this is why I prefer to get my tackles via free agency. You can still fuck that up (Solder), but you at least have a chance to have someone else teach him the position and watch him play the position in the NFL first.
We are going to have a very good draft pick next spring.
I think picking Toney after the trade down is a mistake and believe we need to trade him this spring. All the warning lights about character and judgement issues are flashing red.
Haven’t we learned from Beckham? The good news is that we can probably recoup a high draft pick from Toney.
I think picking Toney after the trade down is a mistake and believe we need to trade him this spring. All the warning lights about character and judgement issues are flashing red.
Haven’t we learned from Beckham? The good news is that we can probably recoup a high draft pick from Toney.
Huh? So Toney has warning lights about some kind of issues and yet the Giants can trade him for a high draft pick?
BTW, what are the character issues? The tweet about Ruggs?
The gun incident, Sy’s back channel warning, the personal foul, the training camp non participation and then the tweet. It wasn’t the tweet per se, although that was dumb. It’s that it showed Toney was hazy about the difference between young men doing stupid things and criminal activity that leads to death. He apparently doesn’t grok the fundamental difference between the two. Which means he is a fairly sizable risk to shame the franchise the next time he is in a stupid situation that requires adult decisionmaking.
Meanwhile he has 28 receptions midway through his rookie season, his longest reception is 38 yards and he is still looking to score his first TD. An intriguing talent but give me a break about how he is some franchise talent. Beckham blew the doors off Toney in terms of jump off the screen talent and look how that turned out. And Beckham’s red flags were minimal compared to Toney’s at this stage of his career.
Personality is what caused a knife fight? Personality is shoving your junk in other players face? Guy has been quiet in the NFL for now but is a piece of garbage and it will re-surface. Slater would have been a nice pick, but guess the staff decided to pass on o-line after using 3 picks the year before, and want to see if those developed.
no, he doesn't. Toney's shown some interesting joystick agility and can be tough to tackle as a result. But, OB at his best was headed for Canton, let's get real.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
Quote:
has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board.
It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole.
Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.
This is absolutely the truth. Go and look at the current GBN thread and all the talk is about drafting OT and EDGE.
Draft players, not positions.
amazing how the constant harping about not getting the line corrected is ignored when convenient. Would Parson have been help, probably. Would Slater have helped - absolutely. Does Toney and a second #1 help - remains to be seen. Toney looks real. Having 2 #1s in 2022 should help more with the right GM calling the shots.
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
Quote:
but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
Garrett gets paid to find a way. They don't have to win the games, they can still be a losing team, but they must show something more competent than current product which is cellar dweller quality. Can't just sit around and point fingers and wish it away. If that's the case start cleaning house.
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
That's a very good point. Having more and more picks doesn't mean success (sure, the more attempts might lead to the blind squirrel finding a nut outcome...).
What matters, and let me makes sure my Captain Obvious hat is on securely, it hitting on the picks.
Look at the Rams. They constantly trade picks and end-up with fewer and fewer picks per draft. But what Snead/McVey do well is hit on their limited picks.
Parson > Toney + 2021 Bears 1st rounder?
Lets say that 2021 Bears 1st rounder allows the Giants to get a stud ER or stud OL player, then the combination of Toney and the extra 1st rounder makes it a good trade.
Quote:
The point is to acquire talent, not accumulate picks. I feel like a lot of folks here fall into the draft simulator mindset.
That's a very good point. Having more and more picks doesn't mean success (sure, the more attempts might lead to the blind squirrel finding a nut outcome...).
What matters, and let me makes sure my Captain Obvious hat is on securely, it hitting on the picks.
Look at the Rams. They constantly trade picks and end-up with fewer and fewer picks per draft. But what Snead/McVey do well is hit on their limited picks.
They also now have a smaller window in which to win and if they do not get at least one SB win, there will be hell to pay with a limited way out.
Not sure how to look at the Rams. Good, yes. Great, maybe. Sure fire NFC Champ, could be?
Quote:
In comment 15455629 JonC said:
Quote:
but it's way premature to label him an elite weapon. He's got to be able to run some actual vertical routes or DCs are going to start locking him down. He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
We aren’t even using Golladay as intended. Safe to say our OL and Jones are dictating what the WRs can and can’t do.
Garrett gets paid to find a way. They don't have to win the games, they can still be a losing team, but they must show something more competent than current product which is cellar dweller quality. Can't just sit around and point fingers and wish it away. If that's the case start cleaning house.
great point JonC. Hit the nail on the head.
Quote:
In comment 15455770 JonC said:
Quote:
has fallen into the draft trap of see hole, plug hole and totally get stuck filling holes on paper because they're chasing positions, while leaving better talent on the board.
It's got to stop or you will continuing chasing the talent and playing positional void whackamole.
Pick Parsons and figure out how to unleash him and then build the talent around him. Drafting by positional need has a lot to do with the state of the 2021 Giants, and it sucks to watch it happen.
This is absolutely the truth. Go and look at the current GBN thread and all the talk is about drafting OT and EDGE.
Draft players, not positions.
amazing how the constant harping about not getting the line corrected is ignored when convenient. Would Parson have been help, probably. Would Slater have helped - absolutely. Does Toney and a second #1 help - remains to be seen. Toney looks real. Having 2 #1s in 2022 should help more with the right GM calling the shots.
Section125 actually with the correct sentiment as to the OL.
All season long when the bad OL product is on the field, everybody criticizes the GM and says the Giants absolutely have to prioritize Offensive Line in the next draft.
And then when Spring rolls around the majority of those fans see all the cool, shiny toys in the Draft window and pocket their feelings about the OL. At least until the season starts and they see the bad product continue and then they blame the GM again.
Rinse...repeat.
He has made good decisions when trusted with the pass options.
He has found a way to get extra yac
I like he chances of learning the full route tree and becoming even more of a threat.
Besides the obvious ability, I see a tough competitor, not a diva. The kids a football player. Drool over Parsons all you want , but I like our kid
He could however turn into a versatile playmaker for Giants if we ever get an OL that can support an Offense.
And then again, can you honestly say you would be surprised if something down the road happened and he was out of football in less than a few years?
I sincerely hope not, but not surprised...
And Parsons isn't? Given the flags on him, he could be a non-factor any time and wind up playing for the California Penal League.
It's been terribly put together, and the OL players themselves haven't been helped by Garrett (scheme) or Jones and Barkley (execution).
This is the nuts and bolts of why the Giants are a bad team. It's not just one or two mistakes. The policies that are in place are deeply flawed and really in a deeply flawed product.
Those areas need a complete rebuild.
Quote:
He's also a non-elite brain with some judgement caps to fix.
And Parsons isn't? Given the flags on him, he could be a non-factor any time and wind up playing for the California Penal League.
Do you have a list of flags? I don't recall reading any, just what I'd heard behind the scenes.
They have to keep investing in it until they get it right, or find different people to making the investing decisions...
Recall seeing him a few times now letting his emotions get the best of him. Occurred late in the WFT game and he got a good lecture from Judge and stormed off to the bench. Then of course he threw a punch and got ejected from the Dallas game a few weeks later.
Keep in mind that he hasn't exactly played that many games/snaps yet. Maybe he is frustrated with his role, or the injuries or maybe it's just who he is going to be in the heat of battle. Good luck with that..
I still like what I see as a football player. I expect his and parsons careers to be similar. Time will tell
Slater is another player that shows promise but again I heard we had no interest.
Could the info on both players have been wrong absolutely.
Toney didnt practice all offseason but he flashes. Maybe he is nothing more than a gimmick guy. Who knows yet. I think he has to be evaluated more.
Based on the info at the time, I think it was a great trade.
Based on the info we have now, I think you could have gone either route and been successful. All 3 seem to be players with strong careers ahead. I think Toney and the top 10 pick is still the way to go. I dont know what the draft will be like yet but I think Toney will be a good player and we still have the potential to get a great one.
I do think we have to get back to drafting the best available regardless of position like others have said. Injuries take a strong position and make it weak in a heartbeat. Getting players other teams have to gameplan around is important. Right now we have very few players in that category so when you have a chance to get one you have to take it. I personally dont think either Parsons or Slater was considered cant miss at the time.
Sy had Slater pegged as at 85 and at Guard
Sy had Parsons at 84
Sy had Toney at 77 but also mentioned some teams had him in top 5
I wish it were that simple but you know it isn't. Toney has had a couple big games. The picks are a completely unknown commodity and there is no guarantee the organization will hit on them. Meanwhile Parsons is the presumptive defensive rookie of the year and has been the exact type of player this defense sorely needs.
Ultimately the jury is still out and talking with any kind of certainty is kind of foolish.
Besides, the comparison is Toney plus whomever the Giants get next year with that extra pick versus Parson and/or Slater.
These conversations may be fine for just spit-ballin' 9 games in, but they really aren't all that interesting yet...
As far as Tooney, it’s way too soon to tell if he’s going to be a great player. But even if he is, there’s lot of receivers available in the every draft and quality play makers get drafted at WR out of the top 20 every year.
Having said all this, I’m not killing Getty for the trade. It’s defensible and may still wind up being a positive. But, then again, Getty is such a lousy GM he’s graded on a curve here.
I take this a direct reaction to Judge saying Jones needed better weapons and better coaching. Doesn’t seem like Judge made much movement on the latter, but Gettleman did on the former.
I like Toney, but he’s a joystick guy right now. I’d rather the “weapon” reps go to Barkley. I agree with Jon, he’s got to be a complete receiver. There’s a graveyard of joystick guys who never became WRs. TBD on Toney.
No one’s ever regretted bookend tackles or a 3-down linebacker. Higher floors.
No one’s ever regretted bookend tackles or a 3-down linebacker. Higher floors.
I think you and I have explored this before, but the odds are very favorable investing in OL in the first round. A pretty good hit rate.
Quote:
No one’s ever regretted bookend tackles or a 3-down linebacker. Higher floors.
I think you and I have explored this before, but the odds are very favorable investing in OL in the first round. A pretty good hit rate.
In terms of at least being a competent starter, yes, but when you are wrong it is really wrong
The whole sequence of events is maddening. The fan base and media raising enough noise about the continued poor results trying to put the right offensive line and depth together that it merits a response then the guy basically mocking the idea as if this team that has not at all recently shown they are smarter than anyone still thinks they are smarter than everyone.
(May 2021) “It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen than you guys do. So I’m just going to say we’re happy with the group that we have."
Dave Gettleman’s failed promises - ( New Window )
Quote:
No one’s ever regretted bookend tackles or a 3-down linebacker. Higher floors.
I think you and I have explored this before, but the odds are very favorable investing in OL in the first round. A pretty good hit rate.
Even if the tackle can’t cut it — you have a guard.
Want to really make some heads explode here? The last two 1st round tackles Reese drafted are two of the better blocking guards in the NFL. Today.
Even if the tackle can’t cut it — you have a guard.
Want to really make some heads explode here? The last two 1st round tackles Reese drafted are two of the better blocking guards in the NFL. Today.
You really can't make it up...can you?
But that's an excellent point about OLT. You can always move them inside, or to the other T side.
The extra first rounder which could be really high plus the late round pick is definitely worth taking Toney over those guys IMO.
I liked the trade down in theory but overall even if Toney pans out results wise he seems like another guy already that may be dangerous to pay. Not durable, potential distraction etc.
I was beating the drum for the OL for this exact reason. We had to see what Jones is. I think we have but I can see the argument for the OL being garbage (but that is very much a self inflicted wound)
Regardless what the Giants seem not to understand is something many on this site have. You build the OL and get your QB and then you fill in the skill positions which can be rather fungible if you get those other two things right.
I honestly can't even believe we are heading for another year where the claims are "you can't evaluate the QB" with the amount of resources we invested in skill positions seemingly for that purpose.
It is the Golladay and Toney thing that is really confounding and even a bit enraging. It's like they are so busy plugging one hole on the boat that there are others holes in the boat that they are ignoring.
And then they act like they know things the fans don't about the holes they are ignoring.
How anyone looks at the way we allocate assets and has any degree of confidence in these people at this point is truly a feat of blind optimism.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000
If we were going to pick at that spot and not trade down, I wanted Slater. Argued a ton with many on here that either wanted Paye or wanted a WR. There was very little discussion on Parsons because he had off-field issues and Giants don't tend to go with that.
The OL to me was and is the most critical.
With that said, I do love the 2022 shot of if they love a QB.
GreatDayne nails it with DG's arrogance yet someone that has been so awful.
The whole sequence of events is maddening. The fan base and media raising enough noise about the continued poor results trying to put the right offensive line and depth together that it merits a response then the guy basically mocking the idea as if this team that has not at all recently shown they are smarter than anyone still thinks they are smarter than everyone.
(May 2021) “It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen than you guys do. So I’m just going to say we’re happy with the group that we have."
Dave Gettleman’s failed promises - ( New Window )
This has just been a microcosm of the asshole he's been since he came aboard.
Slater is another player that shows promise but again I heard we had no interest.
Could the info on both players have been wrong absolutely.
Toney didnt practice all offseason but he flashes. Maybe he is nothing more than a gimmick guy. Who knows yet. I think he has to be evaluated more.
Based on the info at the time, I think it was a great trade.
Based on the info we have now, I think you could have gone either route and been successful. All 3 seem to be players with strong careers ahead. I think Toney and the top 10 pick is still the way to go. I dont know what the draft will be like yet but I think Toney will be a good player and we still have the potential to get a great one.
I do think we have to get back to drafting the best available regardless of position like others have said. Injuries take a strong position and make it weak in a heartbeat. Getting players other teams have to gameplan around is important. Right now we have very few players in that category so when you have a chance to get one you have to take it. I personally dont think either Parsons or Slater was considered cant miss at the time.
Sy had Slater pegged as at 85 and at Guard
Sy had Parsons at 84
Sy had Toney at 77 but also mentioned some teams had him in top 5
Depends on your definition of "can't miss" but I thought both were considered can't miss to a degree which is why they were in the discussions of being drafted early.
Quote:
Even if the tackle can’t cut it — you have a guard.
Want to really make some heads explode here? The last two 1st round tackles Reese drafted are two of the better blocking guards in the NFL. Today.
You really can't make it up...can you?
But that's an excellent point about OLT. You can always move them inside, or to the other T side.
True... but then you used a top pick for a guard. Not sure why we simply cannot draft tackles. Hopefully Thomas changes that for us.
Meanwhile, this is why I prefer to get my tackles via free agency. You can still fuck that up (Solder), but you at least have a chance to have someone else teach him the position and watch him play the position in the NFL first.
I think picking Toney after the trade down is a mistake and believe we need to trade him this spring. All the warning lights about character and judgement issues are flashing red.
Haven’t we learned from Beckham? The good news is that we can probably recoup a high draft pick from Toney.
I think picking Toney after the trade down is a mistake and believe we need to trade him this spring. All the warning lights about character and judgement issues are flashing red.
Haven’t we learned from Beckham? The good news is that we can probably recoup a high draft pick from Toney.
Huh? So Toney has warning lights about some kind of issues and yet the Giants can trade him for a high draft pick?
BTW, what are the character issues? The tweet about Ruggs?
Meanwhile he has 28 receptions midway through his rookie season, his longest reception is 38 yards and he is still looking to score his first TD. An intriguing talent but give me a break about how he is some franchise talent. Beckham blew the doors off Toney in terms of jump off the screen talent and look how that turned out. And Beckham’s red flags were minimal compared to Toney’s at this stage of his career.
Wake up.