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| The Giants need to decide on Jones’ fifth-year option for the 2023 season by early May. That option is projected to cost $21.4 million. Jones’ cap hit is just $7.2 million this season, so exercising that option signals a serious commitment. If Jones’ performance doesn’t improve, the most pragmatic approach would be to decline the option and let Jones play out the final season of his rookie deal. His cap hit is just $8.4 million in 2022. That would maintain maximum flexibility, as the Giants could simply cut ties after next season if Jones doesn’t pan out. If Jones finally delivers in Year 4, the team could still retain him via the franchise tag or an extension, but that would be more costly than exercising the fifth-year option. |
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| It’s nearly impossible to envision a scenario where Joe Judge isn’t back for a third season as head coach. Maybe ownership would make a change if the Giants lose their final eight games, but even then, there would likely need to be major locker-room issues to prompt a move. Mara has made it clear that it’s important to him that a coach doesn’t lose the locker room. The team hasn’t quit on Judge in either of his two seasons despite slow starts, so there’s no reason to expect a second-half collapse. Judge needs to figure out a way to avoid such poor starts, but expect the Giants to give the 39-year-old first-time head coach the opportunity to learn from some of his early missteps. |
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| If Judge is retained, that makes things stickier on the general manager front. Gettleman has proven to have surprising staying power, but it seems impossible that ownership could sell a fourth losing season to a restless fan base. So unless there’s a dramatic second-half turnaround, the Giants will likely be in the market for a new GM. For the same reason that keeping Gettleman would be untenable, it’s hard to foresee an internal promotion. Promoting a lieutenant from Gettleman’s unsuccessful tenure would be a head-scratcher. If the Giants go outside of the organization, they’ll need to find a candidate who is compatible with Judge. The question is how much weight they put on Judge during the GM search. Do they prioritize a candidate with ties to Judge, such as Titans director of player personnel Monti Ossenfort, or do they just find the best option who will sign on to work with Judge? That’s the downside of having a coach and general manager on separate tracks. If the Giants finish with a similar record to last season, Judge’s seat will be heating up at the same time a new general manager is coming on board. It’s a potentially messy corner the Giants have backed themselves into by sticking with Gettleman. |
I've said this like 10x before and everyone says no its guaranteed... which is news to me so idk
RE: Jones's option - I disagree that the most pragmatic approach is to let Jones play out the season at $8.4M. A more pragmatic scenario is to trade him and use whatever pick(s) you get for him to help rebuild the roster with young cost-controlled talent. If the draft yields a quarterback (be it in the first round or elsewhere) then great. If not, the FA market will have options cheaper than $8.4M that will provide similar level of play at the position. That approach is win/win: gain something for Jones, reduce the cap hit at QB.
Although no reason a new GM couldn't be found from the outside that has similar vision to Judge. Also not a priority the guy has ties to Judge either. But there has to be some compatibility, not best of buddies but mutual respect as to what the plan and the steps to get there...
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
& no, I'm not Dan's mother or wife. Haha.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Right now Jones is one of the least productive starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I'm not saying that to knock him; it's just a fact. What is the risk in trading him?
Right now Jones is one of the least productive starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I'm not saying that to knock him; it's just a fact. What is the risk in trading him?
If he is worth nothing as you say, you will hardly get anything for him. Plus the contract you are trying to avoid is an anchor in the water for the receiving team. I think he is worth keeping on the team. You can draft aQB if you want, I wouldn’t, but trading jones doesn’t make any sense at all.
I thought you were cheering for the Giants to lose out to create an embarrassing situation so the ownership on down is the embarrassed into a full rebuild. I don’t share that rooting to lose bs but you should by your logic want jones around, you know, to complete the utter embarrassment.
If they do hire a GM from the outside who identifies the candidates? Judge? Serious question.
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It's an oversight not to mention trading Jones after this year as a legitimate choice and option.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but Giants are not in a bind at all.
They can spend rest of the season on assessing Jones and then determine if there is a better and/or cheaper option available in free agency AND the draft.
And if not, he is still pretty cheap...
An arranged marriage is my fear (Jason Garrett cough cough)
He would be embarrassed beyond belief. As long as they DON’T sign him to a second contract, that’s ok.
Oh and if you think you will get a viable replacement for under 8 million - good luck.
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In comment 15455960 bw in dc said:
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It's an oversight not to mention trading Jones after this year as a legitimate choice and option.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but Giants are not in a bind at all.
They can spend rest of the season on assessing Jones and then determine if there is a better and/or cheaper option available in free agency AND the draft.
And if not, he is still pretty cheap...
Unless he improves by year's end they are in a bind.
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It's an oversight not to mention trading Jones after this year as a legitimate choice and option.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Jets got a second round deal/package for Darnold. Jones is better than Darnold right now.
Personally, I would take a second for Jones in a NY minute. And if we get can better than the Darnold...brilliant.
It really is the smart move.
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In comment 15455979 section125 said:
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In comment 15455960 bw in dc said:
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It's an oversight not to mention trading Jones after this year as a legitimate choice and option.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but Giants are not in a bind at all.
They can spend rest of the season on assessing Jones and then determine if there is a better and/or cheaper option available in free agency AND the draft.
And if not, he is still pretty cheap...
Unless he improves by year's end they are in a bind.
Care to explain why?
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The good thing is that the next GM-in all likelihood-will be from the outside & will have no ties to DJ & thus won't think twice about moving on if he chooses to do.
If they do hire a GM from the outside who identifies the candidates? Judge? Serious question.
If they're really all in on Judgetheyd be wise to weigh his input heavily.
I’m keeping the same eye on Jason Garrett.
Trubisky signed with Buffalo for $2.5M
Jones is very similar to Trubisky.
Picking up Jones' 5th year is not *very likely*. Especially if you think there will be a new GM.
Right now Jones is one of the least productive starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I'm not saying that to knock him; it's just a fact. What is the risk in trading him?
You know what's also a fact? Jones has had absolute dogshit to work with on the OL and skill positions (and when he has had talent, it's been sitting on the sidelines most games), thus it's been pretty much impossible to fairly judge him.
But you - and others - conveniently overlook that.
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In comment 15455995 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15455979 section125 said:
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In comment 15455960 bw in dc said:
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It's an oversight not to mention trading Jones after this year as a legitimate choice and option.
And, to me, that is the BEST idea if it's still unclear that Jones is the answer after this year.
Ah and in there is the Catch 22. If he is good enough to keep, he gets the best trade value. If he is not good enough to keep, then his trade value is nada.
If you don't go 1st round QB next year(2022), you are probably putting off QB until 2023.
Giants are in a bind because Jones is just not clearly stepping up or clearly incompetent.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic here, but Giants are not in a bind at all.
They can spend rest of the season on assessing Jones and then determine if there is a better and/or cheaper option available in free agency AND the draft.
And if not, he is still pretty cheap...
Unless he improves by year's end they are in a bind.
Care to explain why?
I already did. Yeah, they can carry him next year if he doesn't get his shit together by the end of this year. But then they either have to draft a QB in 2022 or wait a year to 2023. If he does not finish well, who will trade for him?
They have to decide to take the 5th year option by May. If he does not play well by the end of the year, they most likely will not take the 5th year(especially if DG is gone) and he is a FA at the end of 2022.
If he gets his shit together, then they are fine.
They have options and can go in numerous directions...
1. How many teams want to trade for a quarterback and what are they willing to offer in return? Glennon is also on a one-year flyer, meaning that we would likely have no active quarterbacks on the roster.
2. Who are you willing to sign to fill the void for the next starter? How much money are you willing to give up, given we don't have a lot of spending power
3. How do you make sure the next quarterback or two (if we draft) won't get thrown into a meat grinder, because whoever takes Jones' place still has to deal with a not-so-great offense.
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By the end of this season they will have played 49 games over 3 seasons since they drafted him. In today's NFL that is a lifetime and more than enough sample size to assess whether or not it's worth moving forward with him.
Right now Jones is one of the least productive starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I'm not saying that to knock him; it's just a fact. What is the risk in trading him?
You know what's also a fact? Jones has had absolute dogshit to work with on the OL and skill positions (and when he has had talent, it's been sitting on the sidelines most games), thus it's been pretty much impossible to fairly judge him.
But you - and others - conveniently overlook that.
No one's overlooked that. I've said many times the OL is brutal.
Fairly judging him is irrelevant. The concept of fair doesn't apply. That's pee wee league super fan bullshit.
I do not expect the Giants to do that. I expect Jones back next year because of what was said above: optics and a misplaced sense of fairness will likely make the decisions. After all, the Giants are a poorly run organization.
The top paid QBs generally resign with the teams that drafted them and there is no such thing as home team discount in terms of the QB contracts (https://overthecap.com/contract-history/quarterback/). There are actually very few examples of QBs leaving the team that drafted them via free agency and getting paid more by the new team. Excluding trades and extensions, the only QBs to leave and get paid more in free agency are Peyton Manning, Kirk Cousins and Tom Brady. Jones is no where near the same level of QB as these 3 guys. Simply put, unless Jones' production explodes over next 8 weeks the Giants should decline the 5th year option.
I am guessing that Mara and Giants FO will decide to exercise Jones' 5th year option b/c of course they will, but there is no rational reason to think the Giants have to do it or end up paying more for average QB production. They will more than likely pay less for a veteran QB or draft another young QB to replace Jones.
Let it play out these next 8. Never know what could happen, but if it holds serve I’d think the giants would not use the option year but who the hell knows. Who’s GM who’s the HC we don’t know shit yet.
That's how the Giants do business. Shit if recent history is any guide the last game or two are the only ones that will matter from a decision making perspective.
Don’t throw good money after bad.
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That's how the Giants do business. Shit if recent history is any guide the last game or two are the only ones that will matter from a decision making perspective.
Mara has probably fired more people the last 8 years than any other owner. I highly doubt some lipstick on a pig type wins will help anyone but ok. I was saying the season is halfway over. 8 games to play that matter. That’s reality.
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In comment 15456099 djm said:
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That's how the Giants do business. Shit if recent history is any guide the last game or two are the only ones that will matter from a decision making perspective.
Mara has probably fired more people the last 8 years than any other owner. I highly doubt some lipstick on a pig type wins will help anyone but ok. I was saying the season is halfway over. 8 games to play that matter. That’s reality.
totally right most owners stick with Shurmur. especially having a rookie qb.
Same shit, different year. Meaningless beyond obscuring the ability to self scout creating a false sense of optimism with the current group.
Same shit, different year. Meaningless beyond obscuring the ability to self scout creating a false sense of optimism with the current group.
We're entering the nightmare scenario. Investing years and maybe millions in the hope of a low probability event - Daniel Jones suddenly becoming an elite starter in year 3 or later.
Only if the GM is an internal hire and has seen all he needs to see of Jones. That’s really doubtful since Jones is a cheap pick for a year.
Get Jones a better OL - and position players that aren't mostly hurt- he'll probably play better.
If Jones is great the next two months, maybe the decision gets harder. As things stand, it’s important to keep the books clean for 2023. 2022 is already a mess - such a mess that I might keep Gettleman on as a lame duck, with restricted authority, so a new GM can come into a better situation. It’s quite an achievement to be as cap-strapped as the Giants are with a cheap QB and a crappy roster.
Agree that Judge will be back provided the team shows improvement along with some wins for the rest of the season.
I think its more likely a internal GM is promoted because Mara has said several times the Giants have made very significant changes to their processes. If they go outside it will be someone who will work within the existing structure.
I think next year is the critical year for Judge. The team will have to be in the playoffs or right in the mix and it will have to be clear that the QB is holding the team back. If that is not the case then I think the Giants blow things up and a total outside hire is brought who is given control.
Recall many on the fence with Jones (and the current GM mind you) suggesting a lot hinged this season with him. Now it's a lot hinges on the next 8 games...as if this is some sort of countdown?
Wait for it..."A lot hinges on this final game of the season with Jones. Even though the Giants have been eliminated from playoffs for several weeks now, Jones' future with the team could hinge on his performance today."
great...