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NFT: Why are Mets going to rebuild

Debaser : 11/18/2021 8:37 am
So they are being ing Baez back which everyone thought for sure was a rental.

Noah/ Thor isn’t a Met but effectively hasn’t been in two years anyway. You still have degrom and lindor. I know comforts is gone but he’s be gone anyway

It’s because of this they are talking rebuild? He hasn’t played and they were in first place
I am not sure that is the case Debaser  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 9:36 am : link
Syndergaard went to the Angels. Eppler is about to be hired.
I haven't heard anything about Baez yet?
While their front office search has been public, I don't think they plan on rebuilding.
yeah, who says they are rebuilding?  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 10:05 am : link
it's impossible to say what direction the team is going. At this point, a FA has left who wanted out and didn't give the Mets the opportunity to match
Baez  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:17 am : link
is talking to 6-7 teams reportedly, where is it a lock he's coming back? They aren't going to rebuild but I do honestly think this may be a "transition" year with their top young talent close but not yet ready and likely a below average rotation barring something very surprising. Deep down they probably view 2023 as their "goal" year to contend again (yes, the Braves went on a miracle run and it's sports so things happen).
You’re baseball thread  
Dave on the UWS : 11/18/2021 10:19 am : link
is just as pathetic as your football posts. Do you have evidence or are you just talking out of your ass (as usual)?
I haven't seen any news on Báez  
allstarjim : 11/18/2021 10:24 am : link
So not sure where you're getting that from. Only thing I've heard is that he has a robust market around the league.

I don't think they need a rebuild, but they definitely need a re-tool. I think they need to trade some pieces for young starting pitching. Dom Smith and J.D. Davis would seem to be two candidates to do so, even though Dom really hurt his value on the open market this year due to performance.

I really hope they can bring back Conforto. I know it's against the odds, but to me he's the most irreplaceable guy in the lineup. But whatever, at this point I'm used to be disappointed by this team. Richest owner in baseball and all of a sudden we can't afford to bring back homegrown talent at a position of need. But I'm sure they'll spend premium dollars on a half-washed SP.

RE: You’re baseball thread  
allstarjim : 11/18/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15457283 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
is just as pathetic as your football posts. Do you have evidence or are you just talking out of your ass (as usual)?


Pretty much.
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:34 am : link
issue with a guy like Dom Smith is his stock is likely very much down. Unlike McNeil (who also had a poor season) Dom has a limited track record of success and "zero" defensive value/versatility. Questionable how much a team is going to give up for a Dom-type when there are similar options on the FA market. The market for 1B likely isn't too strong when a guy like Belt is accepting the QO.
rebuild is a loaded work - they need to build like Boston did w/ bloom  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 10:34 am : link
the jury is out on whether or not Boston had to or should have traded Betts. They got good players and Betts won a WS. Lindor is locked in here so there's no real discussion there (yet).

but like Boston what they need to do is not over extend themselves with questionable long term deals and place a big emphasis on rebuilding the farm.

that's why it's good that they aren't signing anyone with QO's attached. that is the right call. those top 70 picks + bonus pool $ are the silver lining to losing Thor and likely Conforto.

and most like Boston they need to lock in a good manager, the core young players produced from their system, and build a strong clubhouse. Boston sold some of their guys but they obviously didn't sell Boegarts or Devers and they also added from the outside with winning players like Kike.

Alonso, Lindor, and JDG are the Boegarts, Devers, Sale. Eppler needs a strong vision to build out the rest of the roster. Fresh eyes mean there should be no sacred cows. Maybe McNeil/Dom/Nimmo are part of that future or maybe they are Benintendi.

everything would start with Scherzer for me though. a massive 2 year deal would give them at least that much of a window at possibly having the best 1/2 punch in MLB and buy them 2 years to get the farm cranked up where it needs to be.
Once Eppler is onboard  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 10:38 am : link
I am curious how they solve the roster. It is a bit unbalanced. There are ALOT of questions.

On everyday players:

-If they do have a season in 2022 - will it be with a D.H.? (Cano?)?
-Is Nimmo an everyday CF or does he move to a corner?
-Do we see Dom Smith in LF? (1B is obviously occupied although Pete can DH a few games.
-Is McNeil in the plans at 2B, OF, 3B? (A Ben Zobrist type role)?
-J.D. Davis?
-McCann bridge us to Fransisco Alvarez (What year is Alvarez's projected debut)?

Obviously we need to either bring Stroman back or replace him. We are not really "replacing" Syndergaard, his departure was more of a surprise but we went an entire 2 seasons without him. Are Lucchessi and Yammamotto still under contract for next year? I know they aren't super exciting but are live arms.



I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:42 am : link
very much hesitate lumping a proven quantity like Brandon Nimmo with medicore Andrew Benintendi. Benintendi prior to the trade had 1 season where he posted more than 2.0 fWAR and a 107 career wRC+, Brandon Nimmo now has 2 3+ fWAR seasons and was on pace for one in both 2020 (shortened season) and 2017 and has a career 134 wRC+. Yes, he's injury prone but he's a far, far superior player and would be a major loss. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Nimmo would have an argument as the #1 FA OFer this season (if he were one), and at the very least "in the discussion".
Sorry for the double post  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 10:43 am : link
Used COT's baseball contract site -
Jordan Yamamoto and Joey Lucchesi were only signed for 2021.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Once Eppler is onboard  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15457304 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
I am curious how they solve the roster. It is a bit unbalanced. There are ALOT of questions.

On everyday players:

-If they do have a season in 2022 - will it be with a D.H.? (Cano?)?
-Is Nimmo an everyday CF or does he move to a corner?
-Do we see Dom Smith in LF? (1B is obviously occupied although Pete can DH a few games.
-Is McNeil in the plans at 2B, OF, 3B? (A Ben Zobrist type role)?
-J.D. Davis?
-McCann bridge us to Fransisco Alvarez (What year is Alvarez's projected debut)?

Obviously we need to either bring Stroman back or replace him. We are not really "replacing" Syndergaard, his departure was more of a surprise but we went an entire 2 seasons without him. Are Lucchessi and Yammamotto still under contract for next year? I know they aren't super exciting but are live arms.




Nimmo +4 DRS, +4 OAA in CF. He's your CF unless moving him allows you to reel in somebody you normally wouldn't be able to (Marte if he insists on CF for example) or you trade for an all-star in CF.

Yamamoto and Luchessi are signed for 2022 but I've seen a few places that expect luchessi to be non-tendered. Alvarez hasn't even played above a-ball yet. His eta will be clearer after he gets in some time at AA, more. He still has substantial work to do behind the plate.
RE: Sorry for the double post  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15457314 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
Used COT's baseball contract site -
Jordan Yamamoto and Joey Lucchesi were only signed for 2021. Link - ( New Window )


They are both under contract assuming they are tendered.
Yamamoto  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:47 am : link
has a career 71 era+ over 19 starts. He's completely fine as your 8th-9th-10th option but he's not even quality depth until he shows he can be.
Lucchesi had Tommy John  
allstarjim : 11/18/2021 10:48 am : link
in June(?). He's not going to be able to give the Mets anything of significance in 2022.
Cano  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:49 am : link
has yet to play the field or collect an extra base hit in the DWL. With 40.5 million owed, let's hope he has something left.
Thanks guys  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 10:50 am : link
I am starving for Mets news and I was just thinking about some of our in-house options and financial commitments to anticipate our roster this coming year.
RE: Lucchesi had Tommy John  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15457321 allstarjim said:
Quote:
in June(?). He's not going to be able to give the Mets anything of significance in 2022.


Which is why it's expected he's non-tendered (and maybe a minor league deal) 1+ million isn't a ton but if he's not likely going to help until August etc. Probably not worth it.
There  
afann : 11/18/2021 10:54 am : link
has to be an underling issue. Thor leaves and doesn't give the mets a chance to match. We have the richest owner in baseball and we Wilpon Thor over less then 3 mill.....Something's up
RE: RE: You’re baseball thread  
BamaBlue : 11/18/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15457290 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15457283 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


is just as pathetic as your football posts. Do you have evidence or are you just talking out of your ass (as usual)?



Pretty much.


It's that deep repository of MLB data known as the rectal database.
Eppler  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 10:59 am : link
While the team hasn't had any official announcement to the public. If Eppler is indeed our GM, can he be working as a Mets employee? Meaning can he be reaching out to Free Agents or other GMs for trade discussions?

Just curious on this quiet day.
I know this might be a minority opinion  
allstarjim : 11/18/2021 11:00 am : link
But I'd let Stroman walk. I think what we've seen from him in 2021 is the best version of him, I don't think he's going to sustain that, and if we're talking $22 mil per over 5 years, I'd rather them use that money to bring back Conforto.

RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15457311 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
very much hesitate lumping a proven quantity like Brandon Nimmo with medicore Andrew Benintendi. Benintendi prior to the trade had 1 season where he posted more than 2.0 fWAR and a 107 career wRC+, Brandon Nimmo now has 2 3+ fWAR seasons and was on pace for one in both 2020 (shortened season) and 2017 and has a career 134 wRC+. Yes, he's injury prone but he's a far, far superior player and would be a major loss. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Nimmo would have an argument as the #1 FA OFer this season (if he were one), and at the very least "in the discussion".


it's not as much a comparison of the players as the question of whether or not they are in the long term plan. Nimmo is injury prone and has 1 year on his contract so there's a decision to be made.

i'd personally look to extend him by the way because I agree with you he is a good player at a premium position and he seems to play the game the right way even if he's injury prone.
the manager decision is going to be very interesting  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:11 am : link
ausmus & showalter both seem like solid options.

a bonus w ausmus is his prior relationship with scherzer. maybe that and cohens $ can get it done?

id probably lean more towards buck though. you dont win manager of the year with 3 different teams by accident. hes also shockingly only 65 (i thought he was def in his 70s).
RE: RE: I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:12 am : link
In comment 15457342 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457311 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


very much hesitate lumping a proven quantity like Brandon Nimmo with medicore Andrew Benintendi. Benintendi prior to the trade had 1 season where he posted more than 2.0 fWAR and a 107 career wRC+, Brandon Nimmo now has 2 3+ fWAR seasons and was on pace for one in both 2020 (shortened season) and 2017 and has a career 134 wRC+. Yes, he's injury prone but he's a far, far superior player and would be a major loss. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Nimmo would have an argument as the #1 FA OFer this season (if he were one), and at the very least "in the discussion".



it's not as much a comparison of the players as the question of whether or not they are in the long term plan. Nimmo is injury prone and has 1 year on his contract so there's a decision to be made.

i'd personally look to extend him by the way because I agree with you he is a good player at a premium position and he seems to play the game the right way even if he's injury prone.


If he's not part of your long term plans who exactly is? Lindor (by virtue of his contract), Alonso (I assume), deGrom (hopefully)? I mean if you don't look to retain any of your best players then yeah, that's what you call a rebuild (not calling for one) but if you lose Conforto, Syndergaard, Nimmo, Stroman in the span of 2 off-seasons you have to question what the plan is. Picks are awesome but they also take 2-3 years with most college players and a average of 5 for HS players so it's not as if you have a big draft or 2 and suddenly those guys are on the big club. Completely in on proactively looking to sign Brandon Nimmo.
RE: RE: RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15457355 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

If he's not part of your long term plans who exactly is? Lindor (by virtue of his contract), Alonso (I assume), deGrom (hopefully)? I mean if you don't look to retain any of your best players then yeah, that's what you call a rebuild (not calling for one) but if you lose Conforto, Syndergaard, Nimmo, Stroman in the span of 2 off-seasons you have to question what the plan is. Picks are awesome but they also take 2-3 years with most college players and a average of 5 for HS players so it's not as if you have a big draft or 2 and suddenly those guys are on the big club. Completely in on proactively looking to sign Brandon Nimmo.


the only legitimate concern is the injuries. is it a good use of 80-100m on a player always hurt? that usually doesnt get better with age.

(id say yes though bc i dont see a better cf alternative anywhere else)
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:18 am : link
injuries are going to factor into the price. Good franchises do not let this level of talent walk in such a short period of time. This doesn't take into account the truth... if the Mets continue to allow core talent to walk, deGrom likely asks out/opts out. So yeah, then you're in a complete rebuild situation.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:23 am : link
like to see them sign Suzuki. That would be a fun move. There is risk sure, but that's baked into the price. Less than it would be if he were a "sure thing".



Player Notes
Suzuki has been one of the, if not the, best hitters in Japan for the last several years, posting a .316/.415/.572 career line, notching a 20/20 season in 2019, and setting a career-high in homers (38) in ‘21. The righty-hitting outfielder has plus power that comes from a dip-and-rip style of hitting, where he just sort of collapses his back side and tries to pull the ball with power as often as possible.

That’s not to say Suzuki is a power goof. He has a cogent two-strike approach in which his leg kick gets toned down, and he’s great at recognizing and crushing breaking balls. In fact, if there’s one hole to his game it’s that he can be vulnerable to velocity on the inner third. Suzuki is at his best when he’s getting his arms extended on pitches well out over the plate, but he tends to foul off or swing under fastballs creeping in on him. It’s tough to say whether this would be exploited more in MLB and impact his success, and it’s even harder to say whether Suzuki will be able to adjust to MLB velocity (pitchers’ fastballs in Japan averaged 90 mph in 2021) until we see him face it. He has the talent to be an everyday right fielder with some hit tool risk because of the leap in stuff he’d need to deal with. – EL
RE: The  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:24 am : link
In comment 15457364 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
injuries are going to factor into the price. Good franchises do not let this level of talent walk in such a short period of time. This doesn't take into account the truth... if the Mets continue to allow core talent to walk, deGrom likely asks out/opts out. So yeah, then you're in a complete rebuild situation.


maybe. i dont expect this but lets say the reds were willing to swap gray for nimmo? or maybe as part of a 3 team where the team getting nimmo sends cincy a prospect so they save $. something like that could make sense if they prefer signing marte.

letting him walk for nothing seems least likely to happen though because he embodies the modern approach to getting on base and they have no alternatives in cf (unless they do sign Marte).
RE: I know this might be a minority opinion  
Section331 : 11/18/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15457340 allstarjim said:
Quote:
But I'd let Stroman walk. I think what we've seen from him in 2021 is the best version of him, I don't think he's going to sustain that, and if we're talking $22 mil per over 5 years, I'd rather them use that money to bring back Conforto.


I'm kind of with you on this. I'd resign him if the years are right. I'd be very concerned about how a smallish SP ages. A 3-yr deal is a no-brainer, but there will be a robust market for him.
RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15457377 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
like to see them sign Suzuki. That would be a fun move. There is risk sure, but that's baked into the price. Less than it would be if he were a "sure thing".



Player Notes
Suzuki has been one of the, if not the, best hitters in Japan for the last several years, posting a .316/.415/.572 career line, notching a 20/20 season in 2019, and setting a career-high in homers (38) in ‘21. The righty-hitting outfielder has plus power that comes from a dip-and-rip style of hitting, where he just sort of collapses his back side and tries to pull the ball with power as often as possible.

That’s not to say Suzuki is a power goof. He has a cogent two-strike approach in which his leg kick gets toned down, and he’s great at recognizing and crushing breaking balls. In fact, if there’s one hole to his game it’s that he can be vulnerable to velocity on the inner third. Suzuki is at his best when he’s getting his arms extended on pitches well out over the plate, but he tends to foul off or swing under fastballs creeping in on him. It’s tough to say whether this would be exploited more in MLB and impact his success, and it’s even harder to say whether Suzuki will be able to adjust to MLB velocity (pitchers’ fastballs in Japan averaged 90 mph in 2021) until we see him face it. He has the talent to be an everyday right fielder with some hit tool risk because of the leap in stuff he’d need to deal with. – EL


if they sign an OF I think they need to go CF-capable. McNeil and/or Dom may both need spots in a corner since Cano would likely need DH (assuming that happens). Baty or Vientos may need a corner in the next year or two.

not opposed to the right COF on the right deal (including possibly bringing back Conforto if he has a cool market) but SP and CF are so thin organizationally they need to prioritize buying themselves time there.

extending Nimmo would be very high on my to do list if I was Eppler. That would send a good message as a first move.
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15457378 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457364 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


injuries are going to factor into the price. Good franchises do not let this level of talent walk in such a short period of time. This doesn't take into account the truth... if the Mets continue to allow core talent to walk, deGrom likely asks out/opts out. So yeah, then you're in a complete rebuild situation.



maybe. i dont expect this but lets say the reds were willing to swap gray for nimmo? or maybe as part of a 3 team where the team getting nimmo sends cincy a prospect so they save $. something like that could make sense if they prefer signing marte.

letting him walk for nothing seems least likely to happen though because he embodies the modern approach to getting on base and they have no alternatives in cf (unless they do sign Marte).


Kind of confused with your scenario. The Reds are trading 2 seasons of Gray for one season of Nimmo who they will have to pay? and the Mets offense can't afford to lose Nimmo AND Conforto and just add Marte. If we are talking in-season, the Reds wouldn't even get a pick so it would make even less sense.


I'd also let stroman walk  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15457382 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15457340 allstarjim said:


Quote:


But I'd let Stroman walk. I think what we've seen from him in 2021 is the best version of him, I don't think he's going to sustain that, and if we're talking $22 mil per over 5 years, I'd rather them use that money to bring back Conforto.




I'm kind of with you on this. I'd resign him if the years are right. I'd be very concerned about how a smallish SP ages. A 3-yr deal is a no-brainer, but there will be a robust market for him.


I think he's all about himself. They need pitching desperately so if he comes back I won't complain about it, they know him better than we do, but he seems like he's always trying to prove things about himself.
Nimmo  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 11:31 am : link
may be the most underrated Met in my lifetime. The way people just dismiss him and act like he is replaceable is mind-boggling. Only knock I have on him is he isn't always healthy. But he is one of the few players who has an OBP consistently around .400.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:34 am : link
willing to go out on a limb and say if the Mets traded Nimmo for SP their 2022 offense would likely be pretty awful. I know Conforto had a bad season but the odds of the Mets replacing both Nimmo/Conforto's production in one off-season let alone improving upon it (remember, they were BAD offensively even with them) seems extremely, extremely unlikely.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:35 am : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
33s
Starling Marte market is very hot, so he could be that rare star player who signs a big multiyear deal in November, as I just said on Hot Stove. Phillies, Yankees, Mets, Astros, Rangers, Marlins, many others in. @MLBNetwork
People don't love Nimmo?  
pjcas18 : 11/18/2021 11:36 am : link
I think that's a little bit of a straw man, but his injuries are more than just an "only thing not to like" type issue.

He'll be 29 before the season and his max games played in a season is 140 and he hasn't done that since he was 25.

He hasn't played more than 92 games in any other full season (omit 2020 where he was healthy, but it was obviously a shortened season).

His injuries are a significant issue. You, unfortunately, cannot rely on Brandon Nimmo in 2022 without a legitimate backup plan.

My novice guess is Alvarez here in 2023 for WC chase  
Payasdaddy : 11/18/2021 11:37 am : link
If he doesn’t start at AA, he should be there shortly
Probably spends the whole yr there
Big jump from high A but he has he barely missed a beat when promoted in 2021
1/2 yr triple A in 2023, 2nd half on Mets
Matt Allen. Probably just pitches a month in 2022, maybe just fastballs like Thor?
Might not see him up till 2024
Baty could be sometime in 2022, same with vientos ( if not used as a trade piece)
Mauricio? Probably sometime in 2023
Obviously all depends on progression?
Thoughts Dan?
RE: RE: RE: The  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:37 am : link
In comment 15457385 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Kind of confused with your scenario. The Reds are trading 2 seasons of Gray for one season of Nimmo who they will have to pay? and the Mets offense can't afford to lose Nimmo AND Conforto and just add Marte. If we are talking in-season, the Reds wouldn't even get a pick so it would make even less sense.



I mentioned Gray because he's supposedly on the block and the type of player the Mets should be interested in. From an onfield value standpoint he's probably pretty close to Nimmo so while I agree the Reds probably don't have interest in Nimmo there's probably a way to get a 3rd team involved - if the Mets wanted to go in a different direction than Nimmo over the next 3+ years (like Marte). Pick whatever team in MLB you think would be most interested in Nimmo and they can be a 3rd team and then Cincy could get a prospect package sort of like the Musgrove trade for Pitt last year.

But you only do something like that if you make the decision now to not resign Nimmo.
RE: I'd also let stroman walk  
Section331 : 11/18/2021 11:41 am : link
In comment 15457386 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


I think he's all about himself. They need pitching desperately so if he comes back I won't complain about it, they know him better than we do, but he seems like he's always trying to prove things about himself.


I actually don't have a problem with that. Whatever an athlete needs to do to perform at a high level, as long as it's legal, is OK with me. I remember Michael Jordan making compliments other players gave him sound like insults so he could use it as fuel to his fire.

My concern is purely about how long Stroman can perform at this level. The track record for SP's his size when they get into their 30's isn't good.
RE: People don't love Nimmo?  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15457393 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I think that's a little bit of a straw man, but his injuries are more than just an "only thing not to like" type issue.

He'll be 29 before the season and his max games played in a season is 140 and he hasn't done that since he was 25.

He hasn't played more than 92 games in any other full season (omit 2020 where he was healthy, but it was obviously a shortened season).

His injuries are a significant issue. You, unfortunately, cannot rely on Brandon Nimmo in 2022 without a legitimate backup plan.


100% agree. And if you are extending him, you need to plan to have a backup plan for as long as that deal lasts.

Marte isn't exactly an iron man either, nor Conforto/Baez, but for the Mets org now under Cohen it's not as simple as what is a fair contract for player X. It's what is the best use of the money?

is the best use of 80-100m on any player with the durability issues Nimmo has?
was 19m the best use on a player who hasn't pitched in 2 years?

they need to look at the full market and decide who the best investments are over the long term.

Lindor may yet end up a mistake but imo the best rationale for that deal was that they identified the player they wanted long term and instead of waiting for FA they went after their top choice. After 1 year the jury is very much out but they made a long term evaluation likely based on how they expect all the players in question to age and their tools to hold up. Hopefully they chose wisely.
RE: My novice guess is Alvarez here in 2023 for WC chase  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:45 am : link
In comment 15457394 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
If he doesn’t start at AA, he should be there shortly
Probably spends the whole yr there
Big jump from high A but he has he barely missed a beat when promoted in 2021
1/2 yr triple A in 2023, 2nd half on Mets
Matt Allen. Probably just pitches a month in 2022, maybe just fastballs like Thor?
Might not see him up till 2024
Baty could be sometime in 2022, same with vientos ( if not used as a trade piece)
Mauricio? Probably sometime in 2023
Obviously all depends on progression?
Thoughts Dan?


Agree with all of the above. Only caveat is, because Alvarez is a C, he impacts the entire pitching staff so unlike some other positions, he really has to be completely "ready" before he's out there in any substantial role, and obviously you won't have him sitting on the bench vs. getting time in the minors. I think we should assume Alvarez takes longer than his talent/stat-line would suggest.

Mauricio's development- who really knows? His physical transformation has really changed his profile from a no-doubt SS who may grow into some power to a potential CO type bat who likely can't play average MLB SS.

Allan- not really think about him at all (even on the minor league level) until 2023. If he throws this year it will be very limited.

Vientos feels like a trade chip but he could be viewed as a replacement for JD Davis.

Baty isn't MLB ready but if you told me he was the starting 3b come July, my mind wouldn't be blown.
Section  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:48 am : link
In comment 15457399 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15457386 Eric on Li said:


Quote:




I think he's all about himself. They need pitching desperately so if he comes back I won't complain about it, they know him better than we do, but he seems like he's always trying to prove things about himself.



I actually don't have a problem with that. Whatever an athlete needs to do to perform at a high level, as long as it's legal, is OK with me. I remember Michael Jordan making compliments other players gave him sound like insults so he could use it as fuel to his fire.

My concern is purely about how long Stroman can perform at this level. The track record for SP's his size when they get into their 30's isn't good.


Stroman isn't michael jordan though. He talked a big game before 2020 and then opted out at the last minute and basically gave them no shot of going anywhere. He is constantly worried about off field stuff and creating drama where it's not needed (arguing with fans, writers, etc). He sideswiped Syndergaard immediately after his contract was reported.

if he was focused on winning or as dominant on the field as MJ sure. you can ignore a lot. or if he was Scherzer. But he's not. His more mid-rotation than top of the rotation.

and I actually think he's a pretty safe bet from a longevity standpoint. He pitches to contact, he's highly athletic, and his arm isn't dealing with big velocity. He could be productive for a while.
I'd like to see them try Mauricio in CF  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 11:51 am : link
that would solve a huge hole within the organization and keep a premium athlete at a premium position. There have been bigger CF's who can still go and get it because of their top end athleticism (Mike Cameron was listed at 6'2 210).
It's  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:53 am : link
pretty much a given Mauricio will see time at other positions this season. They pretty much tipped their hand saying they want to leave him at SS "as long as they can" but I'd be truly stunned if he's not seeing OF and/or 3B reps this season. I don't think he has the foot speed to handle CF and is likely only going to get bigger.
RE: I'd like to see them try Mauricio in CF  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15457406 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
that would solve a huge hole within the organization and keep a premium athlete at a premium position. There have been bigger CF's who can still go and get it because of their top end athleticism (Mike Cameron was listed at 6'2 210).


Cameron was a 5-tool guy. He stole 39 bases in AA and 123 over his minor league career. Mauricio is 19/41 career SB's (career high is 11) and is regarded as a 40 runner
They're going to rebuild  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/18/2021 11:59 am : link
because you touch yourself at night.

And because you can't stop creating new handles to come back here after you've been banned.
Nimmo is listed at 6'3 206 and Springer is 6'3 220  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:02 pm : link
there are more bigger guys who are CF competent than SS so I'd try that. Cespedes played a decent CF his first year as a Met and that was probably above 225. Conforto was probably 210-215 when he slimmed down for CF. It's early enough that they can always try the corners if CF doesn't work.

im sure his current listed weight is wrong (166) but he is slender enough that he probably won't go beyond 200 pounds for a while. He may not have enough speed or enough instincts, or he could have both. Only 1 way to find out.
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:03 pm : link
expect Mauricio to grow to be at least 6'3 220 when it's all said and done if not even larger. Range and athleticism are pretty "meh" for a big league SS thanks to his size at this point but the arm is plus and the raw power is becoming plus as well.
RE: Nimmo is listed at 6'3 206 and Springer is 6'3 220  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15457418 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
there are more bigger guys who are CF competent than SS so I'd try that. Cespedes played a decent CF his first year as a Met and that was probably above 225. Conforto was probably 210-215 when he slimmed down for CF. It's early enough that they can always try the corners if CF doesn't work.

im sure his current listed weight is wrong (166) but he is slender enough that he probably won't go beyond 200 pounds for a while. He may not have enough speed or enough instincts, or he could have both. Only 1 way to find out.


Eric,
Brandon Nimmo was a HS sprinting star and a natural CF, George Springer stole 31 bases at UCONN. These are very weird comparisons. MLB.com gives him a 40 current speed grade and he's likely not even done growing.
George  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:06 pm : link
Springer 2013... stole 45 bases and 2012+2013 stole 87 bases, caught 16 times. He was a true 5 tool, freak athlete. Just comparing heights and weights is silly.
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15457419 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
expect Mauricio to grow to be at least 6'3 220 when it's all said and done if not even larger. Range and athleticism are pretty "meh" for a big league SS thanks to his size at this point but the arm is plus and the raw power is becoming plus as well.


Lagares is listed at 6'2 219 and was never an exceptional runner/base-stealer.

Mauricio is only 20 years old so there's no reason to not give it a shot. He'd be like 8 years ahead of Chris Taylor and that worked out pretty good for him.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:09 pm : link
"George Springer was Houston's first round pick in 2011, 11th overall, from the University of Connecticut. He was the last first round pick of the Ed Wade era but his combination of tools and skills would interest any baseball scout or executive of any background. Springer put up outstanding numbers in college, hitting .358//.454/.679 with 12 steals as a freshman, .337/.492/.658 with 33 steals in 35 attempts as a sophomore, and .350/.458/.624 with 31 steals in 38 attempts as a junior. There were some questions about his ability to make contact and maintain such batting averages against pro pitching, but his combination of power and speed was special."


..."He is also very fast and is adept at using that speed on the bases and in the outfield."


Post draft-

"The 21-year-old has the speed-arm combination to one day develop into a premier defensive center fielder in the major leagues."

Post call up-

"Scouting Report: Springer is known for his classic speed/power profile, but the pleasant surprise in his development has been the barrel control he has been able to demonstrate despite a swing that can get lengthy and porous in certain zones. When he makes contact, it tends to be hard contact, and his bat speed has helped to make up for some of his other mechanical shortcomings. "


He had plus-plus speed, he's slowed down but he's nothing like Mauricio. Again, MLB.com grades his current speed as a 40/80.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15457423 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457419 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


expect Mauricio to grow to be at least 6'3 220 when it's all said and done if not even larger. Range and athleticism are pretty "meh" for a big league SS thanks to his size at this point but the arm is plus and the raw power is becoming plus as well.



Lagares is listed at 6'2 219 and was never an exceptional runner/base-stealer.

Mauricio is only 20 years old so there's no reason to not give it a shot. He'd be like 8 years ahead of Chris Taylor and that worked out pretty good for him.


Chris Taylor? 33 starts in CF this year, 38 steals in AA in 2013, 103 in the minors? Weird player comp.
Dan they aren't comparisons  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:12 pm : link
the point is pretty simple - there are a lot of CF's over 200 pounds. Many are even good defenders.

there are very few SS over 200 pounds because plays happen faster and quickness is the most important skill. basically just Seager Bogearts and Correa.

either way this is a nebulous conversation. he's 20 years, they will try him at other positions in the 2+ years before he's ready for the big leagues, and one of them will stick. None of us know which one that will be.
There  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:14 pm : link
are very, very few CF's of his size with his lack of burst/speed that are starting MLB CF's, it might be "nebulous" to you but you're naming guys known for their speed (outside of Juan Lagares). Guys like Beltran, Cameron, Springer were "bigger" CF's, they also had plus-plus speed.
RE: There  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15457433 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are very, very few CF's of his size with his lack of burst/speed that are starting MLB CF's, it might be "nebulous" to you but you're naming guys known for their speed (outside of Juan Lagares). Guys like Beltran, Cameron, Springer were "bigger" CF's, they also had plus-plus speed.


he's 20 years old and you are acting like his speed/athleticism is a bonafide weakness. In his last write up Law called him a dynamic athlete. FG has his speed at 50 grade. Logenhagen said last year even with added mass his agility is good enough to stay at SS.

at age 21(?) Conforto was a LF-only, possible DH.
at age 25(?) Alonso was unplayable at 1B.

none of us have any idea where he will end up settling in long term. all of us can have opinions though, and mine is they should try him at CF because a premium position adds value and it's a better fit with his size/system need.

I remember plenty of discussion about Nimmo not having the speed/instincts to stick in CF post-knee surgery and he did pretty well this year.
law's comment re: alonso was actually probably when he was 23/24  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:24 pm : link
I didn't realize he's still only 26. thought he was older.
RE: RE: There  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15457441 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457433 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are very, very few CF's of his size with his lack of burst/speed that are starting MLB CF's, it might be "nebulous" to you but you're naming guys known for their speed (outside of Juan Lagares). Guys like Beltran, Cameron, Springer were "bigger" CF's, they also had plus-plus speed.



he's 20 years old and you are acting like his speed/athleticism is a bonafide weakness. In his last write up Law called him a dynamic athlete. FG has his speed at 50 grade. Logenhagen said last year even with added mass his agility is good enough to stay at SS.

at age 21(?) Conforto was a LF-only, possible DH.
at age 25(?) Alonso was unplayable at 1B.

none of us have any idea where he will end up settling in long term. all of us can have opinions though, and mine is they should try him at CF because a premium position adds value and it's a better fit with his size/system need.

I remember plenty of discussion about Nimmo not having the speed/instincts to stick in CF post-knee surgery and he did pretty well this year.


Longenhagen’s write up is from before the season aka a year in which he didn’t get to see him play or his growth (no 2020 season) go read Law’s most recent write up. Said he was a 40 at SS this season
ok so you wouldn't waste time trying him at CF but I would?  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:29 pm : link
that about sum it up?
Keith Law  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:32 pm : link
• The Mets’ High-A affiliate in Brooklyn came through Wilmington a few weeks ago, with a killer heart of their lineup in Francisco Álvarez, Ronny Mauricio and Brett Baty. Mauricio showed incredible bat speed from both sides of the plate, with loose, quick hands, but a tendency to rush himself and commit on pitches before he needs to. He really struggled at shortstop — his range was fine but he wasn’t positioned well on multiple plays, and didn’t show me the hands I’d like to see in a true shortstop. His reputation for defense was far better than what I saw in two games with him.

And then more recently from Law

Mauricio has unbelievably loose hands and bat speed, with 10 homers already for High-A Brooklyn as a 20-year-old, although he’s also been too aggressive and given away some at-bats for the Cyclones, showing his youth and inexperience. He’s built for shortstop with the arm strength for it, but when I saw him in June he was about a 40 defender there,
RE: ok so you wouldn't waste time trying him at CF but I would?  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15457454 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
that about sum it up?


Yup. Pretty much. 40 runners at 20-21 (who are likely still growing) are unlikely to be even semi passable in CF. If he were an above average runner then sure. He’s not.
Tomorrow  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:38 pm : link
Is the 40 man deadline. Curious to see who the Mets add beyond the obvious. This Metoyer kid has buzz and Holderman was up to 98 in one inning stints. Wouldn’t blow my mind to see either one sniped. Hopefully, the Mets take advantage of room on the 40 and grab a few interesting names
RE: Keith Law  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15457455 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
• The Mets’ High-A affiliate in Brooklyn came through Wilmington a few weeks ago, with a killer heart of their lineup in Francisco Álvarez, Ronny Mauricio and Brett Baty. Mauricio showed incredible bat speed from both sides of the plate, with loose, quick hands, but a tendency to rush himself and commit on pitches before he needs to. He really struggled at shortstop — his range was fine but he wasn’t positioned well on multiple plays, and didn’t show me the hands I’d like to see in a true shortstop. His reputation for defense was far better than what I saw in two games with him.

And then more recently from Law

Mauricio has unbelievably loose hands and bat speed, with 10 homers already for High-A Brooklyn as a 20-year-old, although he’s also been too aggressive and given away some at-bats for the Cyclones, showing his youth and inexperience. He’s built for shortstop with the arm strength for it, but when I saw him in June he was about a 40 defender there,


strong arm and good enough range for SS but not great hands...if only there was a position that carried more value than a COF that required good range and not as many quick reaction hands plays. if such a position existed and the depth chart within the system a vacuous black hole it might be worth trying.
Mets have one blue chip prospect  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 12:44 pm : link
Alvarez

Makes it hard to rebuild. You are looking at 3-5 years minimum and Sandy has a mediocre draft record so no guarantee the rebuild is successful. Meantime you are paying big contracts to Lindor and watching the clock run out on guys like Alonso, Lugo etc

Holderman  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:44 pm : link
Was part of the 2016 draft. Man time flies. His AFL numbers weren’t good but a team that saw 98 might be interested. Metoyer walked 9 in 10 innings, so again a team that looked past the raw numbers would be the type to roll the dice on somebody like him. The best organizations are the ones who do well at this kind of thing. The Giants are particularly good at this, obviously the Rays and Dodgers as well.
RE: RE: Keith Law  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15457463 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457455 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


• The Mets’ High-A affiliate in Brooklyn came through Wilmington a few weeks ago, with a killer heart of their lineup in Francisco Álvarez, Ronny Mauricio and Brett Baty. Mauricio showed incredible bat speed from both sides of the plate, with loose, quick hands, but a tendency to rush himself and commit on pitches before he needs to. He really struggled at shortstop — his range was fine but he wasn’t positioned well on multiple plays, and didn’t show me the hands I’d like to see in a true shortstop. His reputation for defense was far better than what I saw in two games with him.

And then more recently from Law

Mauricio has unbelievably loose hands and bat speed, with 10 homers already for High-A Brooklyn as a 20-year-old, although he’s also been too aggressive and given away some at-bats for the Cyclones, showing his youth and inexperience. He’s built for shortstop with the arm strength for it, but when I saw him in June he was about a 40 defender there,



strong arm and good enough range for SS but not great hands...if only there was a position that carried more value than a COF that required good range and not as many quick reaction hands plays. if such a position existed and the depth chart within the system a vacuous black hole it might be worth trying.


Hey if you want to be snarky have at it. But naming guys like Springer and Mike Cameron as examples are laughable. But do what you want.
Lets  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:47 pm : link
Equate range at SS with running speed and covering ground in CF and then let’s say it in a snarky way. Nice. I like it.
RE: Mets have one blue chip prospect  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15457470 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Alvarez

Makes it hard to rebuild. You are looking at 3-5 years minimum and Sandy has a mediocre draft record so no guarantee the rebuild is successful. Meantime you are paying big contracts to Lindor and watching the clock run out on guys like Alonso, Lugo etc


how many blue chip prospects are there in the entire minor leagues?

by definition shouldn't there only be a handful?

if so how is it a reasonable expectation to have multiple blue chips?

you realize there are 30 teams and at present the Mets have 3 prospects pretty unanimously in the top 50?
Nolan  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:49 pm : link
Arenado has maybe the best range at 3B in 20 years, I’m sure that would translate to CF. Scott Rolen maybe the most rangy 3B I’ve ever seen… CF Scott Rolen would be a comedy act. Keith Hernandez the most range maybe ever at 1B, imagine him in CF.
Fangraphs  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 12:52 pm : link
Deems a 60+ grade prospect as “elite” so for 2021 they had 13 such players. If we are including “55’s” because that’s still an above average regular grade they have about 30
RE: RE: Mets have one blue chip prospect  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15457481 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457470 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Alvarez

Makes it hard to rebuild. You are looking at 3-5 years minimum and Sandy has a mediocre draft record so no guarantee the rebuild is successful. Meantime you are paying big contracts to Lindor and watching the clock run out on guys like Alonso, Lugo etc




how many blue chip prospects are there in the entire minor leagues?

by definition shouldn't there only be a handful?

if so how is it a reasonable expectation to have multiple blue chips?

you realize there are 30 teams and at present the Mets have 3 prospects pretty unanimously in the top 50?


True. But not all those teams are rebuilding

Mets farm system is not strong. It’s not awful but they need a few good drafts. That generally means drafting top ten. Are Mets really willing to commit to that?

Mets won a championship with Seaver and Golden. Degrom is on the same level and they are wasting his prime. Really sad
RE: RE: I'd like to see them try Mauricio in CF  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15457413 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15457406 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


that would solve a huge hole within the organization and keep a premium athlete at a premium position. There have been bigger CF's who can still go and get it because of their top end athleticism (Mike Cameron was listed at 6'2 210).



Cameron was a 5-tool guy. He stole 39 bases in AA and 123 over his minor league career. Mauricio is 19/41 career SB's (career high is 11) and is regarded as a 40 runner


Minor quibble, but was Cameron a 5 tool guy? IMO, he was missing the hit tool. Career .249 hitter.
RE: Nolan  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15457482 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Arenado has maybe the best range at 3B in 20 years, I’m sure that would translate to CF. Scott Rolen maybe the most rangy 3B I’ve ever seen… CF Scott Rolen would be a comedy act. Keith Hernandez the most range maybe ever at 1B, imagine him in CF.


now you are just being obtuse.

how many first rounders have been drafted at ages 17-21 having played SS and shifted to other positions as pros?

how many players have specifically converted from SS to CF?

how many 3b have converted to anything other than another corner?

how many 1b have converted to anything other than another corner?

we both know you are fully aware of how common it is for young players to convert from SS to other positions because generally speaking the most athletic start at SS. Not 3b or 1b.

Mauricio is 20 years old and despite mixed scouting reports you are sure he won't stick at SS and can't play CF even though he's never tried it. It just seems presumptuous to speak with such certainty on something so uncertain. Nobody on the planet knows which position he will end up at right now. With the hole in the system at CF I think it's very well worth seeing if he can make the switch. Lagares made the exact same move and it worked out pretty well even though he was a bigger guy and wasn't a plus plus runner.
Prospects/ young players  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 1:18 pm : link
69-73 Mets:

Using today’s rankings, Seaver and Koosman were probably 70s. Cleon Jones and Matlack were 55-60.

85-88 Mets: Strawberry and Golden were 70s. Jeffries was probably a 70 too. Then they had a bunch of guys in the 55-60 range: Cone, Darling, Dykstra, Hojo, Mitchell. Throw in Aguilera,El Sid, Randy Myers

Mets current system is so far from that. You are really starting from scratch. I just don’t see all out rebuild as a good strategy with their system and drafting record. You need to rebuild the scouting and player development structures long term


I think better strategy right now is to sign two studs and hope that guys like McNeill and Dom bounce back and that guys like Megill and Petersen develop .

In other words, no more Carrasco and Neil Walkers. Sign the best pitcher and hitter even if you have to overpay. Have faith in your young guys and let them play through growing pains.

RE: RE: RE: I'd like to see them try Mauricio in CF  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15457493 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15457413 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15457406 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


that would solve a huge hole within the organization and keep a premium athlete at a premium position. There have been bigger CF's who can still go and get it because of their top end athleticism (Mike Cameron was listed at 6'2 210).



Cameron was a 5-tool guy. He stole 39 bases in AA and 123 over his minor league career. Mauricio is 19/41 career SB's (career high is 11) and is regarded as a 40 runner



Minor quibble, but was Cameron a 5 tool guy? IMO, he was missing the hit tool. Career .249 hitter.


I was really talking about as a pure athlete. The guy was viewed as an athlete who may or may not develop actual baseball skills. His athleticism was top tier which really was a major reason he was able to develop beyond maybe his actual hit tool would have dictated. Cameron was as they say a “dynamic” pure athlete.
regarding Mauricio in CF  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 1:21 pm : link
I don't see any harm in trying him out there, though I wouldn't put money on it working out. Worst case scenario is he's a butcher and becomes a corner OF. That's what the minor leagues are for.
Vanzetti - draft pool is equally important to pick # (if not moreso)  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15457487 Vanzetti said:
Quote:


True. But not all those teams are rebuilding

Mets farm system is not strong. It’s not awful but they need a few good drafts. That generally means drafting top ten. Are Mets really willing to commit to that?

Mets won a championship with Seaver and Golden. Degrom is on the same level and they are wasting his prime. Really sad


this is back of napkin but the 2022 draft pool should be a lock to be top 5 even if they go way into lux tax and get penalized.

Last year's 2 teams with biggest bonus pools were $14m. 3rd was 12m.

The 11th + 14th picks alone should carry a combined pool of almost $9m.

The 2nd round pick will probably be around $1.5m.

The competitive balance picks will probably be around $1m each.

So if Conforto leaves the Mets are likely looking at almost $14m just in their first 5 picks and a shot at having the biggest overall draft pool of every team - which they will absolutely need to nail.
Here are '21 Draft bonus pools, pick values - ( New Window )
Mauricio has bust written all over him  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 1:22 pm : link
Yeah, he has tools but he has no position and strikes out and has never hit for average. I would say ten percent chance he becomes a plus major league regular.
RE: regarding Mauricio in CF  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15457516 KDavies said:
Quote:
I don't see any harm in trying him out there, though I wouldn't put money on it working out. Worst case scenario is he's a butcher and becomes a corner OF. That's what the minor leagues are for.


Exactly. And my bet would be against butcher. Alonso was supposed to be a butcher and he isn't. Conforto was supposed to be a butcher and he wasn't (even in CF). Dom hasn't been a butcher in LF and Flores wasn't even a butcher at SS. They hesitated to move McNeil around and he's been competent everywhere he's gone. Maybe Mauricio can't play CF but no reason not to give a 20 year old a look.

They say that defense is the tool that can improve the most in the minors and we've seen that play out a bunch of times recently.
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:26 pm : link
Best pure athlete in the system is probably Jaylen Palmer, Alex Ramirez or Khalil Lee. Doesn’t mean it will translate to being good players.
RE: RE: regarding Mauricio in CF  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:28 pm : link
In comment 15457522 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457516 KDavies said:


Quote:


I don't see any harm in trying him out there, though I wouldn't put money on it working out. Worst case scenario is he's a butcher and becomes a corner OF. That's what the minor leagues are for.



Exactly. And my bet would be against butcher. Alonso was supposed to be a butcher and he isn't. Conforto was supposed to be a butcher and he wasn't (even in CF). Dom hasn't been a butcher in LF and Flores wasn't even a butcher at SS. They hesitated to move McNeil around and he's been competent everywhere he's gone. Maybe Mauricio can't play CF but no reason not to give a 20 year old a look.

They say that defense is the tool that can improve the most in the minors and we've seen that play out a bunch of times recently.


Wait.. what? Dom was -9 OAA in LF this year, 1st percentile
Worst  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:29 pm : link
LF in baseball by OAA in 2021. How is that not a “butcher”? Link below
Link - ( New Window )
the good thing about the Mets drafts  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 1:31 pm : link
is their amateur scouts have been a strength in the first couple rounds. Looking forward to this draft to bring an infusion of young talent.

One thing I am liking is there are about 3 young catchers that I am seeing in the top half of the first. It's a strong draft, and with the Mets not needing a young C with Alvarez, I'm hoping that pushes some players down.

(I know you don't draft for need, but I doubt the Mets are going C in the 1st unless there is an incredible talent they can't pass up)
-5  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:32 pm : link
DRS. Really not sure how that’s anything but a butcher. Both metrics have been truly awful in 2021 in the OF
I agree with playing Mauricio in CF  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 1:33 pm : link
His best bet is to be s Kris Bryant like player.

Funny thing about Bryant is that he is actually better in center than in the corner OF spots
RE: the good thing about the Mets drafts  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15457528 KDavies said:
Quote:
is their amateur scouts have been a strength in the first couple rounds. Looking forward to this draft to bring an infusion of young talent.

One thing I am liking is there are about 3 young catchers that I am seeing in the top half of the first. It's a strong draft, and with the Mets not needing a young C with Alvarez, I'm hoping that pushes some players down.

(I know you don't draft for need, but I doubt the Mets are going C in the 1st unless there is an incredible talent they can't pass up)


They were reportedly very high on Harry Ford. He may move off of C but I think that would suggest they would take a C if he were deemed BPA
RE: RE: RE: regarding Mauricio in CF  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15457526 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


Wait.. what? Dom was -9 OAA in LF this year, 1st percentile


he has been playable. He's made just 1 error in his last 135+ games in LF and has also made some good catches. He isn't todd hundley.

nobody would say it's his ideal position but I don't think anyone would consider it a disaster if he was the OD LF again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: regarding Mauricio in CF  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:40 pm : link
In comment 15457538 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457526 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:




Wait.. what? Dom was -9 OAA in LF this year, 1st percentile



he has been playable. He's made just 1 error in his last 135+ games in LF and has also made some good catches. He isn't todd hundley.

nobody would say it's his ideal position but I don't think anyone would consider it a disaster if he was the OD LF again.


Last in the league in OAA (1st percentile), 17th percentile in OF jump. You’re letting “doesn’t drop the ball” color the actual truth. He’s a well below average OF. There is more to defense then looking like a complete buffoon aka Todd Hundley. If you recall your guy Sandy Alderson flat out said ideally Dom doesn’t have to play OF in 2021.. then they couldn’t work a DH agreement.
RE: RE: the good thing about the Mets drafts  
KDavies : 11/18/2021 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15457534 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15457528 KDavies said:


Quote:


is their amateur scouts have been a strength in the first couple rounds. Looking forward to this draft to bring an infusion of young talent.

One thing I am liking is there are about 3 young catchers that I am seeing in the top half of the first. It's a strong draft, and with the Mets not needing a young C with Alvarez, I'm hoping that pushes some players down.

(I know you don't draft for need, but I doubt the Mets are going C in the 1st unless there is an incredible talent they can't pass up)



They were reportedly very high on Harry Ford. He may move off of C but I think that would suggest they would take a C if he were deemed BPA


Yeah, I have no qualms taking a Ford (or Biggio or Harper type) that they could move off C. But I wouldn't expect them to take a player expecting to stay at C in the 1st (ie another player with Alvarez' build and limited athleticism). I won't pretend to know enough about the Cs coming out this year at this point.
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:47 pm : link
Haven’t looked at the draft outside of the known huge names. It’s too early to really put much stock in that stuff
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: regarding Mauricio in CF  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15457541 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15457538 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15457526 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:




Wait.. what? Dom was -9 OAA in LF this year, 1st percentile



he has been playable. He's made just 1 error in his last 135+ games in LF and has also made some good catches. He isn't todd hundley.

nobody would say it's his ideal position but I don't think anyone would consider it a disaster if he was the OD LF again.



Last in the league in OAA (1st percentile), 17th percentile in OF jump. You’re letting “doesn’t drop the ball” color the actual truth. He’s a well below average OF. There is more to defense then looking like a complete buffoon aka Todd Hundley. If you recall your guy Sandy Alderson flat out said ideally Dom doesn’t have to play OF in 2021.. then they couldn’t work a DH agreement.


everyone agrees that it's not his ideal position - the mets included. Nobody prefers to have a weak player in the field anywhere (which is why he didn't get the OD start last year).

the expectations for a 1b only player learning a new position on the fly in the big leagues out of desperation are very different than a 20 year old SS being given time to learn a new position in the minors. and Dom has been playable enough in LF that its possible he's still there at times next year.
Stroman  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 1:54 pm : link
Reportedly asked for 200 million from one team lol. But “sources” do believe he will get 5-6 seasons at 25-30 per
The other factor is Eppler  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 1:57 pm : link
Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year
RE: I agree with playing Mauricio in CF  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15457532 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
His best bet is to be s Kris Bryant like player.

Funny thing about Bryant is that he is actually better in center than in the corner OF spots


Bellinger is another one too - he's ended up playing way more CF in the big leagues than he did in the minors.
This is why Scherzer makes a ton of sense for huge money for 2-3yrs  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15457555 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year


worst case it doesn't work out and presumably at that point he'd want to get traded any way so you can probably recoup a prospect via trade to help the rebuild.

I'd personally be ok going big on Scherzer and then not really do any other big multi-year deals. Hope you can get Conforto (or 1 or 2 or 3 similar) on pillow deals.

I'd rather be the team that give the next Semian a 1 year deal this year than the team that gives him $100m this year.

Nimmo (CF)
Lindor (SS)
Alonso (1B)
McNeil (RF)
JDD (3B)
Cano (DH)
Dom (LF)
McCann (C)
Guillorme (2B)

is already a workable lineup to start with. non-ideal yes but they don't need to be desperate for hitting the way they need to be desperate for pitching.
even in last years obviously terrible offensive season  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 2:46 pm : link
5 of those 8 players had a rc of 99+. Not counting Cano since he was suspended.

Nimmo 137
Alonso 133
JDD 130
Lindor 103
Guillorme 99

(dom and mcneil were @ 90/91 but obviously are over 100 for their careers)
Dom Smith stats:  
Dennis : 11/18/2021 2:49 pm : link
Home / Mets Thoughts / 2021 Mets Report Card: Dominic Smith, LF
2021 Mets Report Card: Dominic Smith, LF
By James Villani
Updated: October 28, 2021
2021 Mets Report Card: Dominic Smith, LF

Player Data: Age: 26 (6/15/1995), B/T: L/L

Primary Stats: 145 G, 493 PA, .244 BA, .304 OBP, .363 SLG, .667 OPS, 109 H, 11 HR, 58 RBI, 32 BB, 112 SO

Advanced Stats: 86 wRC+, 22.7% K%, 7.4% BB%, .297 BABIP, .291 xwOBA, -0.5 fWAR, -0.7 bWAR

2021 Salary: $2.55 million


Grade: D+
2021 Review
After a career year during the shortened 2020 season, big things were expected out of Dominic Smith in 2021. Like several other Mets’ offensive players, it was a year-long struggle filled with disappointment for Smith. Despite setting a career-high in at-bats and plate appearances, his overall production did not increase, instead it declined severely.

As mentioned above, Smith had a career year in 2020. He slashed .316/.377/.616 and hit ten home runs while driving in 42 runs. Smith was also an extra-base machine as he also totaled 21 doubles. For comparison’s sake, pro-rating those statistics would give Smith 25 home runs, 106 runs batted in, and 53 doubles over the same number of at-bats he got this season. In those same number of at-bats though, he only hit 11 home runs, drove in 58 runs, and tallied 20 doubles. Smith’s power fell off a cliff. Why was this?

Given the evident drop in his traditional statistics, the decline in play was also certainly evident in his underlying numbers. The below chart features some select statistics, and how severe they declined from 2020 to 2021, from Baseball Savant:

2020 Percentile Ranking 2021 Percentile Ranking Percentile Change
Avg. Exit Velocity
66th

43rd
-34.85%

Max. Exit Velocity
77th

65th
-15.58%

Hard Hit %
83rd

47th
-43.37%

Barrel %
86th


31st
– 63.95%

xwOBA
93rd

47th
– 49.46%

xBA
95th

69th
– 27.37%

xSLG
94th

48th
– 48.94%

To explain the chart simply, the decreases in the first four rows explain the decrease in the last three, as well as his decline in his traditional statistics. It appears the main reason for Smith’s woes was his inability to make solid contact. As the third row shows, Smith was barreling the ball far less. In addition, he also was not hitting the ball in the “sweet spot” at nearly the same rate. In 2020, his sweet spot percentage was 43%. It dropped three full percentage points to 40% this past season.

So, why the lack of hard contact? It can be a plethora of different things. However, one main statistic that jumps out was Smith’s 4.1-degree change in launch angle. Smith tried elevating the ball a lot more which may have led to the lack of solid contact and subsequent lack of power. For reference, Smith’s xSLG last year was a career-high and one of the best in the MLB (.563) with a launch angle of only 10.8 degrees. This year that angle ballooned to 14.9 degrees and his xSLG, like all of his other metrics/traditional statistics, severely dropped to .416.

2021 Mets Report Card: Dominic Smith, LF

"Defensively, it was also a struggle for Smith. He was forced into playing the outfield once again as the universal designated hitter rule was revoked after being instituted during the COVID-19 shortened season. Over 859.2 innings in the outfield, he had a defensive runs saved (DRS) of minus-five. This number was tied for 53rd of 72 qualified outfielders who played at least 700 innings. Also, hit total outs above average ranked in the league’s second percentile. Worth noting, Smith was much, much better when he was able to spell Pete Alonso and play first base. However, he only did so for 70.2 innings."
Dom Smith per Metsmerized - ( New Window )
RE: This is why Scherzer makes a ton of sense for huge money for 2-3yrs  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15457572 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15457555 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year



worst case it doesn't work out and presumably at that point he'd want to get traded any way so you can probably recoup a prospect via trade to help the rebuild.

I'd personally be ok going big on Scherzer and then not really do any other big multi-year deals. Hope you can get Conforto (or 1 or 2 or 3 similar) on pillow deals.

I'd rather be the team that give the next Semian a 1 year deal this year than the team that gives him $100m this year.

Nimmo (CF)
Lindor (SS)
Alonso (1B)
McNeil (RF)
JDD (3B)
Cano (DH)
Dom (LF)
McCann (C)
Guillorme (2B)

is already a workable lineup to start with. non-ideal yes but they don't need to be desperate for hitting the way they need to be desperate for pitching.



I do believe Scherzer hates the Mets but that’s because he is such a competitor. Two months on the Dodgers probably tamped his anti Mets feelings.

To get him, Mets will have to overpay but IMO it’s worth it. He and Jake are arguably the two best pitchers in baseball. Scherzer strikes me as a guy who would love to pitch alongside Degrom and take it as a challenge to match Jake.

Mets-Braves rivalry in late 90s was more intense than Mets-Nats now. Yet Glavine signed with Mets. Ultimately it is a job and 99% of humanity takes the highest paying job they can get in their chosen field.
RE: The other factor is Eppler  
Drewcon40 : 11/18/2021 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15457555 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year


Vanz- this is a good point. I have read that the Eppler hire would actually entice Stearns to come as POBO as they are supposed really good friends - Eppler may remain under a potential Stearns hire. That said, I agree - this isn’t a rebuild.
RE: RE: The other factor is Eppler  
Dennis : 11/18/2021 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15457600 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
In comment 15457555 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year





Vanz- this is a good point. I have read that the Eppler hire would actually entice Stearns to come as POBO as they are supposed really good friends - Eppler may remain under a potential Stearns hire. That said, I agree - this isn’t a rebuild.


+1. Me too. I don't think it's a rebuild year either. I think there are still too many valuable, highly performing pieces present.
it's "keep building" not a tear down and rebuild (yet)  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 3:25 pm : link
Alonso is about to turn 27 and Lindor just turned 28.

both are potential MVP candidates.

I think Nimmo and McNeil can be part of a winning core.

they need a lot of pitching but they have JDG and some other usable pieces. Lugo, Diaz, Walker, Carrasco, May, Megill, Peterson.

Scherzer is the only addition that can really change the narrative in a big way though.

Without him they'd have to get pretty lucky to be a WS contender this year. Not impossible but would take a lot going right. Wild card contender would be more realistic.
RE: RE: The other factor is Eppler  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15457600 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
In comment 15457555 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Everybody knows Mets want Stearns and Eppler is here on a one year show me deal.

You don’t hire a guy like that and ask him to start a five year rebuild when he likely is not going to be here

This year should be about going for it while Degrom is still here. If it doesn’t work, then the back the truck up and start a full scale rebuild next year



Vanz- this is a good point. I have read that the Eppler hire would actually entice Stearns to come as POBO as they are supposed really good friends - Eppler may remain under a potential Stearns hire. That said, I agree - this isn’t a rebuild.


Also, with Cano’s salary Mets are basically committed to exceeding luxury threshold the next two seasons.

Plus I don’t think fans fully realize how bad Mickey and Rojas were as managers. Each of the last 4 years Mets had a period of total collapse that ruined the season.

Front office’s failure to anticipate injuries was also a problem. How do you go into a season with Degrom, Carrasco, Thor and Walker penciled in as starters and not have a backup plan? These guys were all huge injury risks and your backup plan is Oswalt and Megill? And Rich Hill? Hill and Megill actually did better than expected but you can’t put together a starting rotation of the walking wounded and expect to make it through the season
RE: it's  
Dennis : 11/18/2021 3:41 pm : link
In comment 15457615 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Alonso is about to turn 27 and Lindor just turned 28.

both are potential MVP candidates.

I think Nimmo and McNeil can be part of a winning core.

they need a lot of pitching but they have JDG and some other usable pieces. Lugo, Diaz, Walker, Carrasco, May, Megill, Peterson.

Scherzer is the only addition that can really change the narrative in a big way though.

Without him they'd have to get pretty lucky to be a WS contender this year. Not impossible but would take a lot going right. Wild card contender would be more realistic.


+1. I agree Eric. I see them as needing a 3rd baseman, 2 outfielders, and pitching. Kyle Bryant would be very helpful at either 3rd base or outfield, Starling Marte could be the other outfielder, and Scherzer or Gausman would replace Syndergaard. If they re-sign Stroman, then I think they would be a legitimate contender. Corrasco and Walker need to return to their previous form, and Megill needs to continue his development. A lot od "ifs", but certainly possible.
Based  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 3:57 pm : link
on Manfred's comments it looks like a lockout is inevitable. There is no pressure on either side before the threat of losing games is upon is.
The Mets strategy for signing free agents  
SJGiant : 11/18/2021 4:09 pm : link
based upon the inevitable shutdown coming up is to offer high signing bonuses with lower base salary. Mr. Cohen surely has the money to make this work (if this is legal).
Does  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 4:20 pm : link
anybody know definitively that a team can hire a manager during a lockout? I just read they are eligible to be part of the MLBPA which would make me question this?
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 4:26 pm : link
Chelsea Janes
@chelsea_janes
·
2h
MLB announces its owners have agreed to provide housing for all minor leaguers except those with major league contracts or making more than six figures. Estimates that will be 90 percent of all minor leaguers at all levels.
RE: Once Eppler is onboard  
81_Great_Dane : 11/18/2021 4:32 pm : link
In comment 15457304 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
I am curious how they solve the roster. It is a bit unbalanced. There are ALOT of questions.

On everyday players:

-If they do have a season in 2022 - will it be with a D.H.? (Cano?)?
-Is Nimmo an everyday CF or does he move to a corner?
-Do we see Dom Smith in LF? (1B is obviously occupied although Pete can DH a few games.
-Is McNeil in the plans at 2B, OF, 3B? (A Ben Zobrist type role)?
-J.D. Davis?
-McCann bridge us to Fransisco Alvarez (What year is Alvarez's projected debut)?

Obviously we need to either bring Stroman back or replace him. We are not really "replacing" Syndergaard, his departure was more of a surprise but we went an entire 2 seasons without him. Are Lucchessi and Yammamotto still under contract for next year? I know they aren't super exciting but are live arms.


The Mets shouldn't do anything to block their top prospects Alvarez, Mauricio and Baty. If they're going to move Mauricio off SS to CF or 3B, fine. If they're going to make Baty a CO, fine. But they need to start putting their prospects on the field, not trading them away.
RE: The Mets strategy for signing free agents  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15457662 SJGiant said:
Quote:
based upon the inevitable shutdown coming up is to offer high signing bonuses with lower base salary. Mr. Cohen surely has the money to make this work (if this is legal).


Signing bonuses are considered salary in terms of AAV so signing bonus is factored in. Players aren't paid at all until the season begins so unless there are players who are REALLY eager to get paid now aka essentially an advance it's likely not going to be a pressing issue for FA's.
Correa  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 4:44 pm : link
met with the Tigers today.
Byron Buxton  
five5 : 11/18/2021 4:53 pm : link
Don’t care the player/prospect cost… the Mets should be incredibly aggressive. Need a CF and an incredible talent.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 5:08 pm : link
@Rangers apparently are being viewed as a potential major bidder for Seiya Suzuki. Daniels previously had success with the high bid for Yu Darvish and most recently signed Kohei Arihara who had a disastrous rookie season
One big positive  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 5:44 pm : link
This is a very strong free agent class and the guys available fit well with the Mets needs.

I think they should look into Chris Taylor. To me, he would be a very good signing because he can play all over and has proven he can hit in postseason.
RE: One big positive  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 5:46 pm : link
In comment 15457731 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
This is a very strong free agent class and the guys available fit well with the Mets needs.

I think they should look into Chris Taylor. To me, he would be a very good signing because he can play all over and has proven he can hit in postseason.


I would agree but he's on a QO. So they'd have to give up a first round pick almost 4m+ of draft pool.

better off trying to find the next Chris Taylor. or waiting out next year's version of Marcus Semian who is still available later in the offseason.
RE: One big positive  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 5:49 pm : link
In comment 15457731 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
This is a very strong free agent class and the guys available fit well with the Mets needs.

I think they should look into Chris Taylor. To me, he would be a very good signing because he can play all over and has proven he can hit in postseason.


He'd cost them the 14th pick in the draft. He's a good player but that's a heavy cost, I highly doubt the Mets go that route.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 5:51 pm : link
I agree he's a solid player but he's 32 in August, his savant page sees regression on the horizon and Steamer projects 1.8 fWAR. Can't see giving up the 14th overall pick in the draft for him. Not with this roster.
Yea unless the draft pick compensation changes in cba  
bhill410 : 11/18/2021 6:05 pm : link
The Mets unfortunately cannot go after anyone with a QO.
the SP market is on fire but there will be everyday guys left out late  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 6:17 pm : link
and honestly I expect Conforto to be one of them. I don't think anyone is going to be beating down the door for a corner outfielder with all the premium position players available. and there are probably some vets out there on their last years of their deals who can be had for nothing but salary savings if they want to value hunt to fill holes closer to ST as well.

the only guy I'd have a lot of urgency to try to lock down before 12/2 is Scherzer. and since Boras likes leverage my guess is he's waiting for us to drive the price up like we did with Bauer last year. Possibly Stroman but my hunch is he doesn't come back.
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 8:17 pm : link
Among the teams interested in Matz
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 8:35 pm : link
Per NPB authority @JballAllen, OF Seiya Suzuki is said to favor a team that plays in a warm weather city. Not great news for @mets fans but you never know #Mets
RE: Mets  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 8:55 pm : link
In comment 15457829 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Among the teams interested in Matz


I was wondering about that. First season he stayed healthy. Might be a good value sign. He is from Stony Brook so you know he likely wants to come back to NY
Cohen  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 8:56 pm : link
announces Eppler as the new GM.
West coast  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 8:59 pm : link
always seems to have the advantage with the KBO/NPB players. So annoying.
Lol  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 9:08 pm : link
and now they have deleted Cohen's comments/the release.
RE: Lol  
GF1080 : 11/18/2021 9:18 pm : link
In comment 15457862 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
and now they have deleted Cohen's comments/the release.


Mets twitter has it up.
RE: RE: Lol  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15457870 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 15457862 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


and now they have deleted Cohen's comments/the release.



Mets twitter has it up.


They accidently published it about 40 minutes ago and then took it down. See here
Link - ( New Window )
,  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 9:26 pm : link

Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
23m
Looks like the publish button was hit a little too quickly.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 9:42 pm : link

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
3m
Billy Eppler will be formally introduced as the #Mets GM on a zoom press conference at 12:30 ET on Friday.
Nightengale  
DanMetroMan : 11/18/2021 10:00 pm : link
thinks they hire Showalter
Eppler is not exciting but is intriguing  
moespree : 11/18/2021 10:04 pm : link
I don't know how accurate of a view one can get on anyone that works for Moreno. Some of the moves the reports say Eppler wanted to make were a lot better than the ones he did make. But of course some (probably most) of what he did was dictated by Moreno.

He is certainly qualified for the job. And he has more experience in the job than the previous 2 hires at GM. So we'll see. I don't hate it.
I wouldn't hate the idea of Showalter as a stabilizing force  
moespree : 11/18/2021 10:06 pm : link
For a few years either. They could do a lot worse.
I’d be really happy with Buck - I can’t believe he’s only 65  
Eric on Li : 11/18/2021 10:33 pm : link
I wanted him or dusty when Beltran got axed and assumed they were both mid 70s. I hope that’s not the nightingale kiss of death.

Ausmus is an interesting choice too - especially since he has a relationship with Scherzer. But I’d probably prefer Buck since he’s got more of a presence (I think).
Lugo could he be a starter?  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 4:02 am : link
Or was Rojas onto something moving him to the bullpen? I think he’s really a starter and they just had a thin bullpen? Obviously not the answer for replacing a Stroman or Syndergard . It just seems easier to find mid relievers than waste Lugo in this role when he could start.
Lugo was in the BP before Rojas - he moved to SP in 20 when stro quit  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 10:16 am : link
on the team because they had nobody else and it was a short season. He's better out of the BP that's where he should stay.

Sign new SP w/o QO from FA.
I think they need to sign...  
moze1021 : 11/19/2021 11:29 am : link
at least 2, preferably 3 of...

Scherzer, Gausman, Stroman, Rodon

None received QO

Dan  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 1:27 pm : link
Have you heard anything about whether Thor gave the Mets an opportunity to match the Angels offer (like Murphy did when Nats gave him a three year deal)?
RE: Dan  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 1:28 pm : link
In comment 15458301 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Have you heard anything about whether Thor gave the Mets an opportunity to match the Angels offer (like Murphy did when Nats gave him a three year deal)?


not dan but they said he did not.
RE: I think they need to sign...  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15458189 moze1021 said:
Quote:
at least 2, preferably 3 of...

Scherzer, Gausman, Stroman, Rodon

None received QO



I think Mets are going to make a run at Scherzer for sure. I also think Cohen right now wants to spend but is also worried about the perception of the other owners.


also seeing on twitter thor said that he left bc of the uncertainty  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 1:31 pm : link
said it's a make or break year for him and he was afraid of the uncertainty. which is understandable. really annoying they didnt just hire eppler sooner.
RE: RE: Dan  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15458302 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15458301 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Have you heard anything about whether Thor gave the Mets an opportunity to match the Angels offer (like Murphy did when Nats gave him a three year deal)?



not dan but they said he did not.


Thanks Eric!

What is your gut saying about who the Mets will sign? In other words not who you want them to sign but who they will sign?
hard to say but i think theyll put a big number in front of scherzer  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 1:37 pm : link
and im with you that normally players pick the most $ (esp Boras players).

i also think they will bring back Loup.

on the position players i hope they are patient but i could see them making an aggressive move to bring back Baez if they can't get Scherzer.

I think they want to give someone a lot of money before december 2.

Eppler is on SNY right now and he just said he wants to add at least 2 and maybe 3 SP. Clearly thats his top need and Scherzer checks every box.

havent had a chance to listen to the full press conference yet but when i find a link or a transcript maybe there are some hints in there. For now Scherzer is my guess.
also this may just be wishful but i think Buck is gonna be manager  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 1:44 pm : link
Eppler just talked a lot about how he wants to run the search and build a process that identifies what they are looking for and the grading the candidates against that.

I think Buck is going to check most of those boxes.

experience in NY? check
credibility? check
culture builder? check
winning background? check

only question would be whether or not they trust his ability to integrate modern probabilistic analytics but if he was the runner up in Eppler's last search in LA I'd imagine he knows how to say the right things to check that box.
Cohen on wfan says he had Noah over his home for dinner in late Sept  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 2:01 pm : link
and at that point seemed like he was happy in NY and with the team. I understand the decision but seems like a month of bad PR pushed him to the west coast.
here's a link to the press conference for anyone interested  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 2:12 pm : link
Cohen got most of the questions about the hiring process and he whether he was being honest or not he said in the majority of cases they weren't able to talk to the candidates they wanted to.
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1OyKADXazwOxb - ( New Window )
.  
pjcas18 : 11/19/2021 2:18 pm : link
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
2m
Billy Eppler on WFAN says that "a lot of those agents are going to hear from me" when talking about the free agent starting pitcher list.
looking at the potential big market teams and scherzer  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 3:01 pm : link
this is all per spotrac which does have mistakes on occasion but does have the most recent contracts (like syndergaard) already in their database.

let's start with LAD. last year their CBT payroll was $245m. Without Bauer they would be at $177m right now. With him that goes up $35m. If they resign Seager presumably they go up another $30m or so also and are close to what they spent last year - which went to the limit of getting penalized in the draft. Presumably it would be very tough for them to retain Scherzer on a big deal if Bauer + Seager are both on their payroll. With 1 of them it's a tight squeeze but maybe possible.

Yankees are already projected in the lux tax at 229m. So they seem unlikely.

The Giants spent $165m last year and are about $55m below that right now. They would have 100m until the lux tax so they are a maybe if they are willing to add payroll.

SD is projected at $213m right now. they are already higher than they were last year so that seems unlikely.

BOS spent right to the CBT at $210m last year. they are at $183 right now.

With Syndergaard the LAA are at 165m right now. Last year they spent $202m.

White Sox spent $175m last year they are at $184m right now.

So bottomline a $40m AAV over 2 or 3 years seems like it would be very tough for most other clubs to match unless they plan to go well above their payroll from last year. LAD seem like the main competition and maybe the SFG if they are willing to spend more this year.
Syndergaard  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 3:33 pm : link
acknowledged the lack of GM/Manager factored into his decision to leave.

-Big firestorm on twitter as Keith Hernandez has apparently revealed he's anti-vax

Michael Lorenzen might be a nice depth addition
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 3:40 pm : link
have MAJOR work to do. The SF Giants employee 16 coaches, Yankees looking to add 3 hitting coaches and an additional pitching coach the Mets currently have 1 coach.
Hernandez had to have known what was going to happen  
moespree : 11/19/2021 3:43 pm : link
Tweeting what he did. I have no idea why in the world he would feel compelled to deal with the shitstorm that would come his way, but there you have it.
RE: Hernandez had to have known what was going to happen  
GF1080 : 11/19/2021 3:50 pm : link
In comment 15458427 moespree said:
Quote:
Tweeting what he did. I have no idea why in the world he would feel compelled to deal with the shitstorm that would come his way, but there you have it.


Guy snorted who knows what for a decade but won't take a vaccine approved by every govt drug agency in the world. Makes sense.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 4:08 pm : link

Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
3h
Mets prospect Ronny Mauricio has been added to the 40-man roster.

This was an expected move ahead of the deadline tonight to protect Mauricio from the Rule 5 draft.
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
4m
Mets have yet to announce the rest of the adds with just under two hours to do so.
It  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 4:27 pm : link
was nice to hear Cohen acknowledge near-term help isn't on the way from the farm system. The Mets often hype up their prospects even when they aren't close to helping and that inflates expectations and timelines.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 5:18 pm : link
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
1m
Source: #Mets have added RHP Jose Butto to their 40-man roster to protect him from the Rule 5 Draft.

23-year-old RHP had a 3.12 ERA in 8 Double-A starts after getting promoted mid season.

Low 90s FB with a plus changeup.
RE: It  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 5:24 pm : link
In comment 15458448 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
was nice to hear Cohen acknowledge near-term help isn't on the way from the farm system. The Mets often hype up their prospects even when they aren't close to helping and that inflates expectations and timelines.


Was also nice to hear eppler say they aren’t trading any of the top 100 prospects they have.

Everything points towards them spending about $65m (AAV) and the majority of it on pitching.

Welcome to the new job same as the old job.
Also martino says they are prepared to “blow past the luxury tax”  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 5:40 pm : link
Starting with SP immediately and anything is on the table w Stroman, Scherzer, gausman, etc It’s in a video on Twitter, says like the LAD when the new ownership group came in they know they need to build a bridge with free agents to buy time to build system. It looks like they may be picking 10 picks later in draft.
Butto  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 5:41 pm : link
is fine but more of a RP/filler SP profile. Weird they are waiting until the last minute to announce these. Maybe working on a deal?
No-brainer adds are  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 5:43 pm : link
Mark Vientos
Carlos Cortes
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:05 pm : link

Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
32s
Right-hander Brent Honeywell is headed to the Oakland A's in a trade from the Tampa Bay Rays, sources tell ESPN.
Bubba  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:09 pm : link
Thompson unprotected, I could see Eppler interested in him.
Honeywell  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:14 pm : link
traded for cash
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:19 pm : link
Tweet
See new Tweets
Conversation
Justin Toscano
@JustinCToscano
Source: The Mets added RHP Adam Oller to their 40-man roster to protect him from the Rule 5 Draft. In September, the organization named Oller its Minor League Pitcher of the Year.
Oller  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:26 pm : link
is 27, picked up from Indy ball.
Another  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:32 pm : link
intriguing name unprotected
Link - ( New Window )
RE: looking at the potential big market teams and scherzer  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15458399 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
this is all per spotrac which does have mistakes on occasion but does have the most recent contracts (like syndergaard) already in their database.

let's start with LAD. last year their CBT payroll was $245m. Without Bauer they would be at $177m right now. With him that goes up $35m. If they resign Seager presumably they go up another $30m or so also and are close to what they spent last year - which went to the limit of getting penalized in the draft. Presumably it would be very tough for them to retain Scherzer on a big deal if Bauer + Seager are both on their payroll. With 1 of them it's a tight squeeze but maybe possible.

Yankees are already projected in the lux tax at 229m. So they seem unlikely.

The Giants spent $165m last year and are about $55m below that right now. They would have 100m until the lux tax so they are a maybe if they are willing to add payroll.

SD is projected at $213m right now. they are already higher than they were last year so that seems unlikely.

BOS spent right to the CBT at $210m last year. they are at $183 right now.

With Syndergaard the LAA are at 165m right now. Last year they spent $202m.

White Sox spent $175m last year they are at $184m right now.

So bottomline a $40m AAV over 2 or 3 years seems like it would be very tough for most other clubs to match unless they plan to go well above their payroll from last year. LAD seem like the main competition and maybe the SFG if they are willing to spend more this year.


Thanks for the research.

I don't think the Giants will sign him. They lost Posey and Gausmann, Wood, and Descalfani are free agents. So is Kris Bryant.

Also, a lot of guys--like Crawford--performed well above their career averages. I think Farhan will once again look for short-term value deals.

I think it is Mets and Dodgers, with Sox and Angels as dark horses. Dodgers obviously have the inside track. I think Mets will have to offer a 4th year if they want SCherzer.



Stroman  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:36 pm : link
calling Keith a "Maga clown" and says he treated him poorly (talked down to him). Always something around the Mets lol
RE: Stroman  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15458522 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
calling Keith a "Maga clown" and says he treated him poorly (talked down to him). Always something around the Mets lol


Sorry, misquoted the second part (I'm blocked) talked down on him as a player. MAGA clown quote is accurate.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:41 pm : link

Robert Murray
@ByRobertMurray
·
44s
The Yankees have designated Clint Frazier for assignment.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:47 pm : link

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
16s
Tigers do love Carlos Correa but have heard from Tigers people who insist they will not spend $300M on any one player due to multiple needs. They are considering Javier Baez and Marcus Semien (and possibly Trevor Story though that’s unconfirmed), who won’t command that figure.
RE: Stroman  
pjcas18 : 11/19/2021 6:47 pm : link
In comment 15458522 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
calling Keith a "Maga clown" and says he treated him poorly (talked down to him). Always something around the Mets lol


Keith who? Hernandez?
RE: RE: Stroman  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 6:49 pm : link
In comment 15458536 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458522 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


calling Keith a "Maga clown" and says he treated him poorly (talked down to him). Always something around the Mets lol



Keith who? Hernandez?


Correct.
Why Syndergaard Left:  
Dennis : 11/19/2021 6:49 pm : link
He cites his reasons.
Noah Syndergaard cites fresh start, Mets GM questions and 'uncertainty' for exit - ( New Window )
Steve Cohen and Javier Baez Meeting:  
Dennis : 11/19/2021 6:53 pm : link
Nov. 19, 3:45 p.m.

"Mets owner Steve Cohen spoke highly of Baez on WFAN on Friday, per Michael Mayer, and says they've been in touch since the season ended.

"He did a phenomenal job for us. He's an exciting ballplayer to watch. He brings a lot of energy to the table. I really like Javy. We had a great dinner together after the season."

Per SNY
Here is the latest on Mets free agent Javier Baez and Steve Cohen: - ( New Window )
Still  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 7:01 pm : link
no 40 man announcement from the Mets
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 7:05 pm : link

Jack Ramsey
@jackwramsey
·
21s
Source: It doesn’t sound like it’s a guarantee the Mets added UTIL Carlos Cortes to their 40-Man roster. I personally think they should, but he might hit the Rule-5 Draft.
Cortes  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 7:50 pm : link
Not protected
-  
DanMetroMan : 11/19/2021 7:54 pm : link
RHP Dedniel Nuñez, selected by SF in last year’s Rule 5 Draft, was returned to the Mets.-
There are a few interesting arms in Rule V  
Mike in NY : 11/19/2021 10:09 pm : link
Matt Tabor had some flyball issues last year, but he is not that far removed from being a significant overslot pick

Seth Corry will have to move to the bullpen and you don’t know where the ball is going, but man can he miss bats
If he is upset by what Keith said to him  
bhill410 : 11/19/2021 10:34 pm : link
I don’t think I am only fan who believes - gtfo (if true)

Dude is the epitome of a leader but is also an effing broadcaster. If that upsets you I don’t know what to say. I will miss Thor but not this cat (if true)
just looked at Oller  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 10:46 pm : link
He basically had a completely mediocre minor league career. Then he had 8 starts with a 2.45 ERA at Syracuse.

The big difference was that he stopped giving up HR. Probably goes back to being mediocre next season. But you never know.
The 40 man has some easy cuts but maybe those are placeholder for fa?  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2021 10:52 pm : link
Eppler said 2 or 3 sp (nogosek and reed are easy cuts)
Loup and prob at least 1 other rp? (Drew smith and maybe luchessi or Yamamoto?)
Probably need at least 1 if and 1 of (blankenhorn and payton are easy cuts)

So maybe they are rolling the dice that if they need to expose young guys better to do it now when it’s more of a hassle to claim & carry? Cortes is bad on d so he’s a tough carry on the bench.
a little entertainment this am between syndergaard and the sports pope  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2021 9:59 am : link
Quote:
Mike Francesa @MikeFrancesa
20h
The Mets are better off without Syndergaard. In case you haven't noticed, they have been without him for years.


Quote:
Noahsyndergaard's avatar
Noah Syndergaard
@Noahsyndergaard
Replying to @MikeFrancesa
Damn, didn't know you were still alive. Congrats.


Quote:
Mike Francesa @MikeFrancesa
3h
I competed every day for 35 years (and won) in my chosen profession in the greatest city in the world. Noah whined and ran away.


the guy who does all the francesa parodies already did a video that's basically indistinguishable from what francesa would have said if he was still on the radio. A+ work all around.
francesa syndergaard response - ( New Window )
RE: Stroman  
Vanzetti : 11/20/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15458522 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
calling Keith a "Maga clown" and says he treated him poorly (talked down to him). Always something around the Mets lol


Stupid of Keith to be promoting such a book during these stressful times.

But Stroman is being even dumber by invoking MAGA when he is a free agent. How many owners are republican? I know Cohen is. I doubt Cohen is a big supporter of MAGA but Stro is being just as dumb as Keith by unnecessarily making it about party politics just when he is about to ask for 100+ million
RE: Steve Cohen and Javier Baez Meeting:  
Vanzetti : 11/20/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15458540 Dennis said:
Quote:
Nov. 19, 3:45 p.m.

"Mets owner Steve Cohen spoke highly of Baez on WFAN on Friday, per Michael Mayer, and says they've been in touch since the season ended.

"He did a phenomenal job for us. He's an exciting ballplayer to watch. He brings a lot of energy to the table. I really like Javy. We had a great dinner together after the season."

Per SNY Here is the latest on Mets free agent Javier Baez and Steve Cohen: - ( New Window )


I go back and forth on Javy. Exciting player. Showed he can play in NY. But with McNeil and potentially/possibly Cano available to play 2nd, is signing Baez really the best use of money?

Mets need to sign a RH backup middle infielder anyway, I might be tempted to go second base by committee rather than throw 150 million at Javy.
if i was manager id want mcneil in LF / cano at dh so baez fits at 2b  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2021 11:22 am : link
i guess that would make dom the odd man out which im ok with. he has 3 more years of control so someone should want him. Twins supposedly asked for him at deadline and they have no 1b - maybe he could be part of a buxton package if they cant extend him (fa next year). or just pick off a decent prospect.
Law did a mets podcast and he's higher on eppler than i expected  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2021 11:54 am : link
seems very much an Eppler fan and very much not a Sandy fan.

Also said a lot of the GM/PBO rumors were incorrect because he heard from more than 1 rumored candidate directly that they were never actually contacted. Not sure he could have been calling out anyone other than martino because I don't recall too many other reporters breaking more than 1 or 2 names of candidates?
Mets Hire Billy Eppler As Their New GM (feat. Keith Law) - ( New Window )
At the end they talk prospects  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2021 12:29 pm : link
And have the same discussion we had here about Mauricio’s future position.
Francesa has a point about Syndergaard  
moespree : 11/20/2021 2:01 pm : link
In everything he said, frankly. I find it difficult to disagree with him.

I won't shed many tears seeing some of these thin skinned players off the Mets roster. My god Stroman takes everything and I mean everything people say personally. Imagine when the whole stadium boos him for the first time.
RE: Francesa has a point about Syndergaard  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2021 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15458854 moespree said:
Quote:
In everything he said, frankly. I find it difficult to disagree with him.

I won't shed many tears seeing some of these thin skinned players off the Mets roster. My god Stroman takes everything and I mean everything people say personally. Imagine when the whole stadium boos him for the first time.


100% agree about Stroman.

Of the FA SP I think my top 2 choices are Scherzer and Jon Gray (assuming they sign close to the predicted amounts).

FG predicts:
2 years @35m for Scherzer.
3 years @13m for Gray.

Gray is just 30 years old and has put up 2+ fwar in his last 5 full seasons in Colorado. He's been worth almost 16 fwar over his whole career (not far off Stroman's 19 fwar). Despite being reliably league average in his production he has missed time each year and his career best is only 170 innings but leaving Colorado can't hurt. If that's the price it seems like a steal compared to what it will cost for Stroman/Gausman/etc.

Scherzer obviously gives them a chance to have the best 1-2 punch in baseball for the next year or 2 and buy them some time.

Rodon could be tempting also but almost too big risk/reward.

JDG/Scherzer/Carrasco/Gray/Walker with Megill/Peterson/Williams/Yamamoto/Luchessi as depth seems pretty solid.

Adding $48m to the current CBT would put them at $235m. So $15m of room left before they are penalized 10 spots in the draft order (the bigger hit would be losing $1m in pool $ but not the end of the world if it means getting Baez/Conforto back on a good deal).
I think Mets need to sign one potential ACE and one mid rotation guy  
Vanzetti : 11/21/2021 12:28 am : link
Potential Frontline Starter: Scherzer, Kershaw, Rodon, Gausman, Ray


Mid-rotation: Stro, Matz, Greinke, Wood, Gray

I would basically be happy with one from each category. Obviously Scherzer and Stroman would be better than Rodon and Matz.

Also, I know a lot of people will say Kershaw is not going to leave LA. But they said the same thing about Thor and NY. You never know. He is a free agent.

NL should be wide open  
Vanzetti : 11/21/2021 12:53 am : link
If you look at the playoff teams from this year, many of them are losing key players or will have to resign them for big bucks:

Dodgers: Jensen, Kershaw, Seager, Chris Taylor. Dodgers already over CB tax threshold by 4 million. If Bauer somehow comes back rotation would be strong (Bauer, Buehler, Urias, May, Heaney) and lineup will strong with Trea Turner and if Cody B bounces back. Bullpen will be a lot weaker.

Giants: Posey, Gausman, Wood, Descalfani. Great season in 2021. I think they struggle to make playoffs next year.

Braves: Freeman and Fast Eddie. Braves are only at 150 million because a lot of their young guys are cost controlled. They probably resign Freddie and let Eddie go. But then they don't have much room to sign other free agents.

Cardinals: Only at 150 million. But they have an aging roster. Wainwright and Yadier will be 41 and 40 respectively. Goldschmidt 35, Mikolas 34. Cards always mange to stay competitive but I don't see them as a dominant team.

Brewers: They will be good but they are the Brewers.
Mets  
Vanzetti : 11/21/2021 1:15 am : link
The more I think about it, the more I think this team is stronger than people realize.

They were in first place for half the season. Their hitters were completely messed up by the organizations mishandling of hitting coaches, firing Chili after a month and imposing an overly analytic approach during the middle of the season. Rojas was a disaster in the second half.

We all talk about starting pitching but Mets already have a bunch of guys:

Degrom, Carrasco, Walker, Trevor Williams, Peterson, McGill. Further down, they have Yennsy Diaz, Yamamoto and Lucchesi, Josh Walker.

Bullpen will be strong: Familia will be gone but everyone else should be back and for once Mets have some AAA guys like SRF and Szazpucki who could be good. Lugo will, I hope, be back to being the old Lugo.

Lineup: Most of the lineup underperformed. I'm betting Eppler gets that straightened out.


To me, this team has a lot of depth. It just needs some extra star power up front.
RE: RE: Steve Cohen and Javier Baez Meeting:  
Debaser : 11/21/2021 7:38 am : link
In comment 15458765 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15458540 Dennis said:


Quote:


Nov. 19, 3:45 p.m.

"Mets owner Steve Cohen spoke highly of Baez on WFAN on Friday, per Michael Mayer, and says they've been in touch since the season ended.

"He did a phenomenal job for us. He's an exciting ballplayer to watch. He brings a lot of energy to the table. I really like Javy. We had a great dinner together after the season."

Per SNY Here is the latest on Mets free agent Javier Baez and Steve Cohen: - ( New Window )



I go back and forth on Javy. Exciting player. Showed he can play in NY. But with McNeil and potentially/possibly Cano available to play 2nd, is signing Baez really the best use of money?

Mets need to sign a RH backup middle infielder anyway, I might be tempted to go second base by committee rather than throw 150 million at Javy.


Are you kidding? McNeil is a borderline jag he is good for what he is a guy who bats 6th and can play multiple positions including pinch hitting off the bench when other players are playing better and he gets benched.

I’m really worried about pitching and hitting now for the Mets. I just think stroman isn’t going to be good ; carasco basically stinks . They really need an ace pitcher to fill the void that syndegard just left or a ton of hitting to make up for it and Baez is just a start. The second half melt down of the season will be the norm.
RE: RE: RE: Steve Cohen and Javier Baez Meeting:  
Drewcon40 : 11/21/2021 7:56 am : link
In comment 15459258 Debaser said:
Quote:
I’m really worried about pitching and hitting now for the Mets. I just think stroman isn’t going to be good ; carasco basically stinks . They really need an ace pitcher to fill the void that syndegard just left or a ton of hitting to make up for it and Baez is just a start. The second half melt down of the season will be the norm.


I don’t see it as a void more so a spot in the rotation. The Syndergaard reaction has been oft-discussed and while the idea of vintage Syndergaard returning was exciting, I feel we lost a starter and need to replace him.

Baez was great for us. Cohen has the money but I think there is still going to be a strategy - not signing players who have been qualified, for one. We need to rebuild the farm. McNeil hasn’t matched his early years but If we allocate resources to other options, McNeil wouldn’t be the worst option (keep in mind Cano returns and we aren’t likely to just cut him).

I disagree on Carrasco. He struggled but I disagree saying “he stinks” . I know we shouldn’t build a team with our heart but he battles leukemia and his teammates rave about him.
mcneil is a borderline jag? a lifetime .300/.824 ops hitter?  
Eric on Li : 11/21/2021 9:18 am : link
tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me you know nothing about baseball.
vanzetti i trend more to your sentiment than against  
Eric on Li : 11/21/2021 9:23 am : link
for 3 years Mcneil had unbelievably consistent hitting numbers and had the highest BA in baseball. having the highest BA in baseball over 1000 abs isn't something one can fake. last year whether it was hitting coach or the drama with lindor his performance was emblematic of the entire team. unfocused and underperforming. you can copy/paste that description for dom + conforto's seasons too - 2 guys who were considered building blocks 12 months ago.

mission #1 for Eppler is fixing that culture starting with a quality coaching staff and organizational accountability from the top down. Scott and Rojas did not know how to do that, hopefully Eppler does. Buck seems like he'd be a great start but farrell/ausmus could be also.
RE: Mets  
NYGgolfer : 11/21/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15459229 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
The more I think about it, the more I think this team is stronger than people realize.

They were in first place for half the season. Their hitters were completely messed up by the organizations mishandling of hitting coaches, firing Chili after a month and imposing an overly analytic approach during the middle of the season. Rojas was a disaster in the second half.

We all talk about starting pitching but Mets already have a bunch of guys:

Degrom, Carrasco, Walker, Trevor Williams, Peterson, McGill. Further down, they have Yennsy Diaz, Yamamoto and Lucchesi, Josh Walker.

Bullpen will be strong: Familia will be gone but everyone else should be back and for once Mets have some AAA guys like SRF and Szazpucki who could be good. Lugo will, I hope, be back to being the old Lugo.

Lineup: Most of the lineup underperformed. I'm betting Eppler gets that straightened out.


To me, this team has a lot of depth. It just needs some extra star power up front.


They may very well be stronger than people realize but they are very far from strong. Eppler has got to hit it right in free agency and get some more talent out there.

Star power sounds great but a healthy mix of solid to good additions filter throughout the lineup would go a long way (maybe a bigger splash at SP). Probably builds a better culture anyway as mentioned above as another gating issue.
golfer - the 2 most encouraging things we heard fri were depth and $  
Eric on Li : 11/21/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15459326 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:

They may very well be stronger than people realize but they are very far from strong. Eppler has got to hit it right in free agency and get some more talent out there.

Star power sounds great but a healthy mix of solid to good additions filter throughout the lineup would go a long way (maybe a bigger splash at SP). Probably builds a better culture anyway as mentioned above as another gating issue.


i very much agree with the bold. they have some strengths and some players to build on but the season will only go as far as the weakest links and the roster has too many weak links right now.

Eppler seems like the right guy at the right time though since he had 5 years of losing baseball in large part thanks to a franchise strategy that was too superstar heavy without enough focus on depth.

Add to that Cohen's willingness to spend and we are likely in for an active offseason. Just need to hope they choose wisely.
RE: mcneil is a borderline jag? a lifetime .300/.824 ops hitter?  
Debaser : 11/21/2021 9:58 am : link
In comment 15459305 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me you know nothing about baseball.


“Lifetime” ? He played four seasons and he hit .251 last season. You are right he was better in the past and does avg to .300.
RE: RE: mcneil is a borderline jag? a lifetime .300/.824 ops hitter?  
Debaser : 11/21/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15459338 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15459305 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me you know nothing about baseball.



“Lifetime” ? He played four seasons and he hit .251 last season. You are right he was better in the past and does avg to .300.


He’s also close to 30 w only four seasons under his belt. So he started playing major league ball at 26.
RE: if i was manager id want mcneil in LF / cano at dh so baez fits at 2b  
Section331 : 11/21/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15458771 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
i guess that would make dom the odd man out which im ok with. he has 3 more years of control so someone should want him. Twins supposedly asked for him at deadline and they have no 1b - maybe he could be part of a buxton package if they cant extend him (fa next year). or just pick off a decent prospect.


Fuck McNeil, they can’t get rid of him quickly enough IMO. I think a lot of the locker room problems were his pouting because Lindor called him out for refusing to position himself properly. Sign Baez, trade McNeil for a bag of balls.
RE: RE: Francesa has a point about Syndergaard  
Rory : 11/21/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15458869 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15458854 moespree said:


Quote:


In everything he said, frankly. I find it difficult to disagree with him.

I won't shed many tears seeing some of these thin skinned players off the Mets roster. My god Stroman takes everything and I mean everything people say personally. Imagine when the whole stadium boos him for the first time.



100% agree about Stroman.

Of the FA SP I think my top 2 choices are Scherzer and Jon Gray (assuming they sign close to the predicted amounts).

FG predicts:
2 years @35m for Scherzer.
3 years @13m for Gray.

Gray is just 30 years old and has put up 2+ fwar in his last 5 full seasons in Colorado. He's been worth almost 16 fwar over his whole career (not far off Stroman's 19 fwar). Despite being reliably league average in his production he has missed time each year and his career best is only 170 innings but leaving Colorado can't hurt. If that's the price it seems like a steal compared to what it will cost for Stroman/Gausman/etc.

Scherzer obviously gives them a chance to have the best 1-2 punch in baseball for the next year or 2 and buy them some time.

Rodon could be tempting also but almost too big risk/reward.

JDG/Scherzer/Carrasco/Gray/Walker with Megill/Peterson/Williams/Yamamoto/Luchessi as depth seems pretty solid.

Adding $48m to the current CBT would put them at $235m. So $15m of room left before they are penalized 10 spots in the draft order (the bigger hit would be losing $1m in pool $ but not the end of the world if it means getting Baez/Conforto back on a good deal).


Eric...I love Jon Gray in Citi, I have read that his peripherals match well with our ballpark. Also he's a good dude and I think he and Degrom would work well together.
These McNeil comments are hilarious  
CooperDash : 11/21/2021 5:31 pm : link
Barely a JAG?
Trade him for bag of balls?

McNeil made his debut later because he went to college and had injuries in the minors. He’s one of the best pure hitters in MLB. He had a down year - so what. We are going to trade him for a bag of balls because he was a pain in the ass last season when the club was HORRIBLY RUN? What about every other hitter that sucked?

I guess .300 BA hitters just grow on trees these days, right?

I’m glad some of you don’t run the team.
RE: mcneil is a borderline jag? a lifetime .300/.824 ops hitter?  
Rory : 11/22/2021 12:09 pm : link
In comment 15459305 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me you know nothing about baseball.


lol that was good
I can’t keep track what’s the posting  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 12:42 pm : link
Process? Is this player a free agent or is it capped on what you can offer?
RE: I can’t keep track what’s the posting  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15460683 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Process? Is this player a free agent or is it capped on what you can offer?


It's essentially FA. He picks his next team, Hiroshima gets up to 20 million (depending on what he signs for)
Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:12 pm : link
is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.
Paternostro  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:13 pm : link
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:14 pm : link
Fukudome's OPS in Japan was 157 points lower than Suzuki's, and he came over at 31... he still ended up a league average MLB hitter (99 OPS+/102 wRC+)
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:16 pm : link
making a "strong" push for Alex Cobb. Love that fit. Zaidi is a master.
RE: Suzuki  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.


Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.
RE: RE: Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:19 pm : link
In comment 15460731 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.


Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.
RE: Paternostro  
GF1080 : 11/22/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)


And probably even longer than that. It's the thinnest I remember since I really started following the farm in the early 2000s.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:35 pm : link
Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 11/22/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses


Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15460762 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses



Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees


I'd 100% be in favor of grabbing Seth Corry. 3 average or better pitches, lefty (which we have little of)
RE: Paternostro  
Vanzetti : 11/22/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)


Do you agree with that, Dan? Because I know you follow the minors closely.
RE: RE: Paternostro  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15460768 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)



Do you agree with that, Dan? Because I know you follow the minors closely.


Yeah. It's pretty ugly after the big names at the top. Also didn't add a 1st round pick because of the Rocker stuff (and drafted in a way that they didn't spend/land too many other interesting names) because of the Rocker pool outlay. They are probably 6-7 deep right now in "legit" MLB prospects.

Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Allan (coming off TJ), Ginn, Vientos (defensive ??) after that... it's pretty rough and must be addressed.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Mike in NY : 11/22/2021 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15460767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460762 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses



Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees



I'd 100% be in favor of grabbing Seth Corry. 3 average or better pitches, lefty (which we have little of)


The control is an issue. I would probably move him to the bullpen.
The deep ness thing I think is a bit of a misnomer  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 2:34 pm : link
Yes replacement level players have value and can bridge some in season crisises but to me you should judge a team on how many better than average players they have in the system. This current batch is higher IMO than a lot of historical groups. We also completely effed up draft last year but conversely assuming we are able to avoid any free agents with QOs (and the rules remain the same) we will have a bunch of draft capital for next year.

When I started following back in Phillips and Omar days after Wright and Reyes there was delonis and fmart and that was about it. Those days were rough to say the least.
Spoke  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 2:47 pm : link
To somebody in the scouting field and he thinks the Mets should sell high on Mauricio if given the chance Said he has great bat speed but doesn’t have a plan at the plate and that hasn’t changed at all since coming up and sees him as a very high risk prospect. Doesn’t think he’s anywhere near Alvarez or Baty.
Jim  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 2:54 pm : link
Allen (my go to on NPB ball) loves Suzuki. Calls him a “machine” and apparently takes the weight room/fitness very seriously which is unusual with NPB players. Do it Steve! Pay the “cold weather” tax if need be!
What  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:02 pm : link
did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol
They should be all in on Suzuki  
moespree : 11/22/2021 3:07 pm : link
This is the type of calculated gamble a team owned by someone like Steve Cohen has to make. He checks off all the boxes.

27, entering his peak, no significant injury history to speak of. There stands a very decent chance that he winds up a better long-term investment than Conforto or any other RF free agent
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:15 pm : link
He's been awful to this point but if the Reds were to finally give up on Senzel, I'd give him a look. 3 options remaining. Some versatility to his game. Hunting for the next Chris Taylor. I'm talking about for like a 26th best prospect in the system or cash.
RE: They should be all in on Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15460878 moespree said:
Quote:
This is the type of calculated gamble a team owned by someone like Steve Cohen has to make. He checks off all the boxes.

27, entering his peak, no significant injury history to speak of. There stands a very decent chance that he winds up a better long-term investment than Conforto or any other RF free agent


Given his defense, his likely "worst case" is a strong 4th OFer/borderline starter. Which is a very "high" worst case.
Love  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:24 pm : link
that Quintana move for Pittsburgh. 2 million? High odds they get a solid prospect for him.
RE: What  
Eric on Li : 11/22/2021 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol


I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.
RE: RE: What  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15460912 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol



I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.


Has options left, which is key with these reclamation grabs. Otherwise, it's a ST tryout and that's mostly a waste of time. Other teams seem to do a good job of picking up former top prospects that haven't developed. Not a bad way to target minor moves.
RE: RE: RE: Suzuki  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15460734 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460731 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.



Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.


Did not know that! Wow. We should be all-in on him.

Given his age, I think he’d be a better “get” than Marte right?
RE: RE: RE: What  
Eric on Li : 11/22/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15460925 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460912 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol



I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.



Has options left, which is key with these reclamation grabs. Otherwise, it's a ST tryout and that's mostly a waste of time. Other teams seem to do a good job of picking up former top prospects that haven't developed. Not a bad way to target minor moves.


100% agree.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15460947 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 15460734 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15460731 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.



Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.



Did not know that! Wow. We should be all-in on him.

Given his age, I think he’d be a better “get” than Marte right?


Different kind of "risk". Marte when healthy is a proven above average MLB regular (7 seasons 3+ fWAR) but he's also 33 years old, has been popped once for PED's already and you're looking at what 20-22 per?(just a guess). So you're paying for 33-36 or 37 whereas we don't "know" what Suzuki will be but he's also 27 years old, 5 year deal you're paying for his prime and even if he's "only" a solid regular that's valuable and if he's more than that then you have a steal. I'd prefer Suzuki. Then again, I'm greedy, I'd love them both.
/  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:52 pm : link
Billy McKinney has now been with... A's, Cubs, Yankees, Toronto, Milwaukee, NYM, LAD and now Texas.. he's 27!
To me perfect off season is  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 4:53 pm : link
Suzuki, Bryant, 1 of Scherzer or Kershaw. That’s probably puts them in the 250 range which may be a bridge too far but they have been talking a big spending game. You may also be able to unload davis or Dom for a bullpen piece which would help address the loss of familia and loup.

C - McCann
1b - alonso
2nd - McNeil/cano
Ss - lidnor
3b - Bryant
Rf - Suzuki
Cf - nimmo
Lf - mcneil/dom
Dh - Jd/cano

Sp - degrom, scherzer/kershaw, carasco, walker, Peterson/megill/Williams

Bp - prayers

Not sure if it’s a playoff roster or not but probably only realistic path for them after Thor spurned them and conforto leaving.
Kershaw  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:54 pm : link
reportedly will only consider LAD or Texas.
Loup  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:35 pm : link
to LAA, 2 year deal
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:37 pm : link
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
1m
The San Francisco Giants have been incredibly aggressive in looking to fill out their rotation, which currently consists of only Logan Webb. The expectation is that they will sign multiple starting pitchers in the coming days. After last year, players want to go to San Francisco.
...  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:38 pm : link
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Loup gets $7.5M in each of the next 2 seasons and has a $7.5 option for 2024 with a $2.5M buyout. #Angels
I thought Loop was good here  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 5:50 pm : link
Surprised the Mets didn’t want to bring him back.
..  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:01 pm : link
Right-hander Anthony DeSclafani and the San Francisco Giants are in agreement on a three-year, $36 million contract, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. DeSclafani, 31, returns to the place he thrived last season, and the Giants' rotation rebuild is off to a good start.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:09 pm : link
#Dodgers have shown interest in Japanese OF, Seiya Suzuki who will be posted today. @USABaseball Manager, Mike Scioscia managed vs Suzuki in Olympics. He believes Seiya Suzuki will hit with power in MLB and has “Tremendous throwing arm from Right Field” #HotStove
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:16 pm : link
Free-agent pitcher Alex Wood is close to a deal with the San Francisco Giants, according to sources familiar with the situatio
RE: ...  
SJGiant : 11/22/2021 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15461046 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Loup gets $7.5M in each of the next 2 seasons and has a $7.5 option for 2024 with a $2.5M buyout. #Angels


It hurts losing Loup. The contract seems like an overpayment for a reliever. I wonder how that contract compares to other relievers.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:24 pm : link
Left-hander Alex Wood and the San Francisco Giants are finalizing a two-year contract worth north of $10 million a season, sources familiar with the agreement tell ESPN. First on the scene with the talks was @ByRobertMurray.
Matz  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:29 pm : link
To sign by the close of business Wednesday.
Mets one of the interested teams
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:50 pm : link

Eno Sarris
@enosarris
Free agent relievers, by Stuff+, which focuses only on movement, velo & spin:
1) Aaron Loup (Angels just signed) (121)
2) Raisel Iglesias
3) Jimmy Nelson
4) Collin McHugh
5) Daniel Hudson
6) Serigo Romo
7) Heath Hembree
8) Kendall Graveman
9) Adam Ottavino
10) Corey Knebel (110)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:13 pm : link

Tim Healey
@timbhealey
·
21s
The Mets are still in on Steven Matz, a source says. Matz is looking to agree to a deal on Wednesday, which would allow for the contract to be finalized before the likely lockout next week.
RE: ..  
Earl the goat : 11/22/2021 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15461067 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Right-hander Anthony DeSclafani and the San Francisco Giants are in agreement on a three-year, $36 million contract, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. DeSclafani, 31, returns to the place he thrived last season, and the Giants' rotation rebuild is off to a good start.



My son went to colts neck high
School with Desclafani. He’s a good guy
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:15 pm : link
What happened to the oft-repeated narrative that Matz was better off leaving his home market? Even Brach (another local guy and ex-teammate) parroted this. Matz had a decent year but I'd go a different direction
Weird  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:36 pm : link
choice to bring back given what he credited to his success (keep in mind, Hefner was presumably instrumental in removing the slider from his repetoire)


"Matz finished 0-5 and posted a 9.68 ERA over nine games (six starts) last season for the Mets, who shipped him to Toronto for three minor-leaguers in January. He has credited Jays pitching coach Pete Walker — another former Mets pitcher — for helping him refine his breaking and off-speed pitches, including his slider, which he abandoned last season with the Mets."
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:39 pm : link
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
11m
Minnesota's Taylor Rogers is among the lefty relievers for whom the Mets have eyes. Rogers is arbitration-eligible and due a raise from the $6 million he received last season and the Twins might want to conserve those dollars.
their interest in Matz is truly weird  
Eric on Li : 11/23/2021 10:11 am : link
he never lacked talent, he had a good year, and he's a rare commodity (lhsp) but why were they in such a rush to dump last year and now pay him 2x this year?

I know everyone has spoken highly of Hefner but he is a total non-commodity until proven otherwise imo. Being bright and young enough to immerse yourself in the advanced stuff is well and good but at some point track record speaks for itself and his is mixed in his 1.3 seasons here (which admittedly isn't a lot of time). Matz had 6 disastrous starts under him. Walker had a good first half brutal second. Diaz had a good 2 months in 2020 but a pretty bad 2021. May was what he always has been.

all that said like last year i expect every FA to be connected to the mets at some point this offseason so its going to be hard to tell who they are prioritizing vs. checking in with. Every agent knows they are the best leverage to drive up prices.
.  
pjcas18 : 11/23/2021 11:19 am : link
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
5m
NEWS: According to @Jacob_Resnick
, the #Mets have signed RHP Jose Rodriguez to a minor league contract. #LGM
if Mets re-sign Baez  
Rory : 11/23/2021 3:29 pm : link
where does he play?

also is McNeil good in the OF?

I assume Cano to DH

And if Mets sign Suzuki that does that mean the end of Dom.

Ugh none of this sounds natural.
LF may be Mcneils best position  
Eric on Li : 11/23/2021 6:01 pm : link
But his d goes up and down - his d at 2b graded positively this year but looked worse than in the past. I think he’s been good in LF since day 1.

By OAA he’s a career +8 at 2b (+4 in ‘21) and even in LF (+1 in ‘21).

I wouldn’t be looking to move dom but he needs to earn his spot in the lineup. If there was a fair trade I’d consider that otherwise him vs Cano for DH.
Man I just feel Bryant just fits so much better  
bhill410 : 11/23/2021 7:14 pm : link
For what the Mets are looking to do. Which is shore up 3b while also not blocking it long term since he has the ability to move to LF. I guess it remains to be seen since he was a disaster in 2020 but just seems as though Bryant will age better than free swinging baez on a 5-7 year contract.
RE: Man I just feel Bryant just fits so much better  
Dennis : 11/23/2021 7:21 pm : link
In comment 15465422 bhill410 said:
Quote:
For what the Mets are looking to do. Which is shore up 3b while also not blocking it long term since he has the ability to move to LF. I guess it remains to be seen since he was a disaster in 2020 but just seems as though Bryant will age better than free swinging baez on a 5-7 year contract.


+1. This is my thinking also. This seems to make good sense to me, especially his ability to play multiple positions as their anticipated minor league players
arrive.
I wouldn't trust either of them on a 6+ year deal  
Eric on Li : 11/23/2021 7:56 pm : link
if that's what it takes I'd pass and just bring back Conforto. No way is he getting that long of a deal.

Most of the projects have Baez at 4 years fyi.

FG has Baez at 4x20m. Bryant at 8x25m. If those end up anywhere close I'd go Baez all day. 2 gg middle infielders who can hit are better than 1.
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