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NFT: Why are Mets going to rebuild

Debaser : 11/18/2021 8:37 am
So they are being ing Baez back which everyone thought for sure was a rental.

Noah/ Thor isn’t a Met but effectively hasn’t been in two years anyway. You still have degrom and lindor. I know comforts is gone but he’s be gone anyway

It’s because of this they are talking rebuild? He hasn’t played and they were in first place
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RE: if i was manager id want mcneil in LF / cano at dh so baez fits at 2b  
Section331 : 11/21/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15458771 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
i guess that would make dom the odd man out which im ok with. he has 3 more years of control so someone should want him. Twins supposedly asked for him at deadline and they have no 1b - maybe he could be part of a buxton package if they cant extend him (fa next year). or just pick off a decent prospect.


Fuck McNeil, they can’t get rid of him quickly enough IMO. I think a lot of the locker room problems were his pouting because Lindor called him out for refusing to position himself properly. Sign Baez, trade McNeil for a bag of balls.
RE: RE: Francesa has a point about Syndergaard  
Rory : 11/21/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15458869 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15458854 moespree said:


Quote:


In everything he said, frankly. I find it difficult to disagree with him.

I won't shed many tears seeing some of these thin skinned players off the Mets roster. My god Stroman takes everything and I mean everything people say personally. Imagine when the whole stadium boos him for the first time.



100% agree about Stroman.

Of the FA SP I think my top 2 choices are Scherzer and Jon Gray (assuming they sign close to the predicted amounts).

FG predicts:
2 years @35m for Scherzer.
3 years @13m for Gray.

Gray is just 30 years old and has put up 2+ fwar in his last 5 full seasons in Colorado. He's been worth almost 16 fwar over his whole career (not far off Stroman's 19 fwar). Despite being reliably league average in his production he has missed time each year and his career best is only 170 innings but leaving Colorado can't hurt. If that's the price it seems like a steal compared to what it will cost for Stroman/Gausman/etc.

Scherzer obviously gives them a chance to have the best 1-2 punch in baseball for the next year or 2 and buy them some time.

Rodon could be tempting also but almost too big risk/reward.

JDG/Scherzer/Carrasco/Gray/Walker with Megill/Peterson/Williams/Yamamoto/Luchessi as depth seems pretty solid.

Adding $48m to the current CBT would put them at $235m. So $15m of room left before they are penalized 10 spots in the draft order (the bigger hit would be losing $1m in pool $ but not the end of the world if it means getting Baez/Conforto back on a good deal).


Eric...I love Jon Gray in Citi, I have read that his peripherals match well with our ballpark. Also he's a good dude and I think he and Degrom would work well together.
These McNeil comments are hilarious  
CooperDash : 11/21/2021 5:31 pm : link
Barely a JAG?
Trade him for bag of balls?

McNeil made his debut later because he went to college and had injuries in the minors. He’s one of the best pure hitters in MLB. He had a down year - so what. We are going to trade him for a bag of balls because he was a pain in the ass last season when the club was HORRIBLY RUN? What about every other hitter that sucked?

I guess .300 BA hitters just grow on trees these days, right?

I’m glad some of you don’t run the team.
RE: mcneil is a borderline jag? a lifetime .300/.824 ops hitter?  
Rory : 11/22/2021 12:09 pm : link
In comment 15459305 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me you know nothing about baseball.


lol that was good
I can’t keep track what’s the posting  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 12:42 pm : link
Process? Is this player a free agent or is it capped on what you can offer?
RE: I can’t keep track what’s the posting  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15460683 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Process? Is this player a free agent or is it capped on what you can offer?


It's essentially FA. He picks his next team, Hiroshima gets up to 20 million (depending on what he signs for)
Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:12 pm : link
is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.
Paternostro  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:13 pm : link
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:14 pm : link
Fukudome's OPS in Japan was 157 points lower than Suzuki's, and he came over at 31... he still ended up a league average MLB hitter (99 OPS+/102 wRC+)
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:16 pm : link
making a "strong" push for Alex Cobb. Love that fit. Zaidi is a master.
RE: Suzuki  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.


Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.
RE: RE: Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:19 pm : link
In comment 15460731 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.


Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.
RE: Paternostro  
GF1080 : 11/22/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)


And probably even longer than that. It's the thinnest I remember since I really started following the farm in the early 2000s.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:35 pm : link
Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 11/22/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses


Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15460762 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses



Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees


I'd 100% be in favor of grabbing Seth Corry. 3 average or better pitches, lefty (which we have little of)
RE: Paternostro  
Vanzetti : 11/22/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)


Do you agree with that, Dan? Because I know you follow the minors closely.
RE: RE: Paternostro  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15460768 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15460726 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


says the Mets system is the thinnest it's been since he began covering them for BP (2011)



Do you agree with that, Dan? Because I know you follow the minors closely.


Yeah. It's pretty ugly after the big names at the top. Also didn't add a 1st round pick because of the Rocker stuff (and drafted in a way that they didn't spend/land too many other interesting names) because of the Rocker pool outlay. They are probably 6-7 deep right now in "legit" MLB prospects.

Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Allan (coming off TJ), Ginn, Vientos (defensive ??) after that... it's pretty rough and must be addressed.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Mike in NY : 11/22/2021 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15460767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460762 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15460758 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Somewhat "surprising" but @longenhagen
doesn't name Carlos Cortes amongst @mets
"interesting" available Rule 5 loses



Matt Tabor (Arizona) and Seth Corry (San Francisco) seem intriguing among potential Rule 5 draftees



I'd 100% be in favor of grabbing Seth Corry. 3 average or better pitches, lefty (which we have little of)


The control is an issue. I would probably move him to the bullpen.
The deep ness thing I think is a bit of a misnomer  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 2:34 pm : link
Yes replacement level players have value and can bridge some in season crisises but to me you should judge a team on how many better than average players they have in the system. This current batch is higher IMO than a lot of historical groups. We also completely effed up draft last year but conversely assuming we are able to avoid any free agents with QOs (and the rules remain the same) we will have a bunch of draft capital for next year.

When I started following back in Phillips and Omar days after Wright and Reyes there was delonis and fmart and that was about it. Those days were rough to say the least.
Spoke  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 2:47 pm : link
To somebody in the scouting field and he thinks the Mets should sell high on Mauricio if given the chance Said he has great bat speed but doesn’t have a plan at the plate and that hasn’t changed at all since coming up and sees him as a very high risk prospect. Doesn’t think he’s anywhere near Alvarez or Baty.
Jim  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 2:54 pm : link
Allen (my go to on NPB ball) loves Suzuki. Calls him a “machine” and apparently takes the weight room/fitness very seriously which is unusual with NPB players. Do it Steve! Pay the “cold weather” tax if need be!
What  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:02 pm : link
did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol
They should be all in on Suzuki  
moespree : 11/22/2021 3:07 pm : link
This is the type of calculated gamble a team owned by someone like Steve Cohen has to make. He checks off all the boxes.

27, entering his peak, no significant injury history to speak of. There stands a very decent chance that he winds up a better long-term investment than Conforto or any other RF free agent
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:15 pm : link
He's been awful to this point but if the Reds were to finally give up on Senzel, I'd give him a look. 3 options remaining. Some versatility to his game. Hunting for the next Chris Taylor. I'm talking about for like a 26th best prospect in the system or cash.
RE: They should be all in on Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15460878 moespree said:
Quote:
This is the type of calculated gamble a team owned by someone like Steve Cohen has to make. He checks off all the boxes.

27, entering his peak, no significant injury history to speak of. There stands a very decent chance that he winds up a better long-term investment than Conforto or any other RF free agent


Given his defense, his likely "worst case" is a strong 4th OFer/borderline starter. Which is a very "high" worst case.
Love  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:24 pm : link
that Quintana move for Pittsburgh. 2 million? High odds they get a solid prospect for him.
RE: What  
Eric on Li : 11/22/2021 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol


I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.
RE: RE: What  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15460912 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol



I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.


Has options left, which is key with these reclamation grabs. Otherwise, it's a ST tryout and that's mostly a waste of time. Other teams seem to do a good job of picking up former top prospects that haven't developed. Not a bad way to target minor moves.
RE: RE: RE: Suzuki  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15460734 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460731 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.



Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.


Did not know that! Wow. We should be all-in on him.

Given his age, I think he’d be a better “get” than Marte right?
RE: RE: RE: What  
Eric on Li : 11/22/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15460925 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15460912 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15460866 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did Omar sell the Wilpons to get them to bid 39 million on Dice-K? Guy was the Wilpon-whisperer lol



I don't think he sold them as much as Madoff did.

love the Senzel idea. that is the exact type of guy they should be trying to pick off from a team looking to save a couple bucks for the equivalent of nothing.



Has options left, which is key with these reclamation grabs. Otherwise, it's a ST tryout and that's mostly a waste of time. Other teams seem to do a good job of picking up former top prospects that haven't developed. Not a bad way to target minor moves.


100% agree.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Suzuki  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15460947 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 15460734 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15460731 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 15460724 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a complete no-brainer for the Mets. Cohen should start the off-season with a bang.



Can we outbid other teams or is there a max bid? With Ohanti there was a max contract unless I don’t remember correctly.



Ohtani was under different rules because of his age. There is no max bid.



Did not know that! Wow. We should be all-in on him.

Given his age, I think he’d be a better “get” than Marte right?


Different kind of "risk". Marte when healthy is a proven above average MLB regular (7 seasons 3+ fWAR) but he's also 33 years old, has been popped once for PED's already and you're looking at what 20-22 per?(just a guess). So you're paying for 33-36 or 37 whereas we don't "know" what Suzuki will be but he's also 27 years old, 5 year deal you're paying for his prime and even if he's "only" a solid regular that's valuable and if he's more than that then you have a steal. I'd prefer Suzuki. Then again, I'm greedy, I'd love them both.
/  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:52 pm : link
Billy McKinney has now been with... A's, Cubs, Yankees, Toronto, Milwaukee, NYM, LAD and now Texas.. he's 27!
To me perfect off season is  
bhill410 : 11/22/2021 4:53 pm : link
Suzuki, Bryant, 1 of Scherzer or Kershaw. That’s probably puts them in the 250 range which may be a bridge too far but they have been talking a big spending game. You may also be able to unload davis or Dom for a bullpen piece which would help address the loss of familia and loup.

C - McCann
1b - alonso
2nd - McNeil/cano
Ss - lidnor
3b - Bryant
Rf - Suzuki
Cf - nimmo
Lf - mcneil/dom
Dh - Jd/cano

Sp - degrom, scherzer/kershaw, carasco, walker, Peterson/megill/Williams

Bp - prayers

Not sure if it’s a playoff roster or not but probably only realistic path for them after Thor spurned them and conforto leaving.
Kershaw  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 4:54 pm : link
reportedly will only consider LAD or Texas.
Loup  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:35 pm : link
to LAA, 2 year deal
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:37 pm : link
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
1m
The San Francisco Giants have been incredibly aggressive in looking to fill out their rotation, which currently consists of only Logan Webb. The expectation is that they will sign multiple starting pitchers in the coming days. After last year, players want to go to San Francisco.
...  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 5:38 pm : link
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Loup gets $7.5M in each of the next 2 seasons and has a $7.5 option for 2024 with a $2.5M buyout. #Angels
I thought Loop was good here  
Metnut : 11/22/2021 5:50 pm : link
Surprised the Mets didn’t want to bring him back.
..  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:01 pm : link
Right-hander Anthony DeSclafani and the San Francisco Giants are in agreement on a three-year, $36 million contract, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. DeSclafani, 31, returns to the place he thrived last season, and the Giants' rotation rebuild is off to a good start.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:09 pm : link
#Dodgers have shown interest in Japanese OF, Seiya Suzuki who will be posted today. @USABaseball Manager, Mike Scioscia managed vs Suzuki in Olympics. He believes Seiya Suzuki will hit with power in MLB and has “Tremendous throwing arm from Right Field” #HotStove
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:16 pm : link
Free-agent pitcher Alex Wood is close to a deal with the San Francisco Giants, according to sources familiar with the situatio
RE: ...  
SJGiant : 11/22/2021 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15461046 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Loup gets $7.5M in each of the next 2 seasons and has a $7.5 option for 2024 with a $2.5M buyout. #Angels


It hurts losing Loup. The contract seems like an overpayment for a reliever. I wonder how that contract compares to other relievers.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:24 pm : link
Left-hander Alex Wood and the San Francisco Giants are finalizing a two-year contract worth north of $10 million a season, sources familiar with the agreement tell ESPN. First on the scene with the talks was @ByRobertMurray.
Matz  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:29 pm : link
To sign by the close of business Wednesday.
Mets one of the interested teams
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 6:50 pm : link

Eno Sarris
@enosarris
Free agent relievers, by Stuff+, which focuses only on movement, velo & spin:
1) Aaron Loup (Angels just signed) (121)
2) Raisel Iglesias
3) Jimmy Nelson
4) Collin McHugh
5) Daniel Hudson
6) Serigo Romo
7) Heath Hembree
8) Kendall Graveman
9) Adam Ottavino
10) Corey Knebel (110)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:13 pm : link

Tim Healey
@timbhealey
·
21s
The Mets are still in on Steven Matz, a source says. Matz is looking to agree to a deal on Wednesday, which would allow for the contract to be finalized before the likely lockout next week.
RE: ..  
Earl the goat : 11/22/2021 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15461067 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Right-hander Anthony DeSclafani and the San Francisco Giants are in agreement on a three-year, $36 million contract, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. DeSclafani, 31, returns to the place he thrived last season, and the Giants' rotation rebuild is off to a good start.



My son went to colts neck high
School with Desclafani. He’s a good guy
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:15 pm : link
What happened to the oft-repeated narrative that Matz was better off leaving his home market? Even Brach (another local guy and ex-teammate) parroted this. Matz had a decent year but I'd go a different direction
Weird  
DanMetroMan : 11/22/2021 7:36 pm : link
choice to bring back given what he credited to his success (keep in mind, Hefner was presumably instrumental in removing the slider from his repetoire)


"Matz finished 0-5 and posted a 9.68 ERA over nine games (six starts) last season for the Mets, who shipped him to Toronto for three minor-leaguers in January. He has credited Jays pitching coach Pete Walker — another former Mets pitcher — for helping him refine his breaking and off-speed pitches, including his slider, which he abandoned last season with the Mets."
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