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ESPN rates 1/5/03 WC loss as Giants toughest loss ever.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/18/2021 7:01 pm
Agree? Disagree?

I say it was. I was too young for '89 vs. Rams & while we've had a bunch of terrible regular season-'10 vs. Eagles comes to mind-those were regular season losses. Also, I wasn't born yet for The Fumble.
no bullshit  
Giantsfan79 : 11/18/2021 7:05 pm : link
I'm 42, and have been so drunk that I don't remember what happened the night before 3 times in my life.

1/6/03 was the last time that happened.
I was comatose  
Aaroninma : 11/18/2021 7:09 pm : link
I think my dad and I sat in the same spot and didnt talk for like 3 hours after that game. it was ruthless.

One that is personal to me is the 96 loss to the Pats in NY. Blew a 22-0 lead, last game of the season( i think). I was 10 or 11, and we really hate the pats here. It was a brutal one.
That team wasn't going anywhere  
Go Terps : 11/18/2021 7:11 pm : link
The home loss to Philly at the end of '08 is still horrifying. There's a good argument to be made that that was a Super Bowl thrown away. I have never been so pissed off over a loss.
GT.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/18/2021 7:13 pm : link
'08 still haunts me; I think we beat the Eagles, we get to Tampa. Big Ben vs. Eli & the chance for a repeat...Still pisses me off.
RE: GT.  
Chris684 : 11/18/2021 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15457779 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
'08 still haunts me; I think we beat the Eagles, we get to Tampa. Big Ben vs. Eli & the chance for a repeat...Still pisses me off.


Correct.

The most devastating loss of my life as a fan. The biggest black eye of an otherwise fantastic era of football for TC/Eli was their total ineptitude against Philly.
We stumbled into the playoffs in 08.  
StingerProf : 11/18/2021 7:22 pm : link
As the 1st seed. That team was done once placed shot himself. 1-3 after play went down. Only win was when our 3 backs ran all over Carolina. Sad. That 07 team winning against an undefeated team, then going 11-1 the following year (only loss to a horrible browns team on Monday night)… then Plac shot himself and it was gone. That team has an argument of being the best in any 16 game span. Including 07 playoffs they were 15-1. Beating Tampa, Dallas and Green Bay all on the road. Then the 16-0 pats in the super bowl. Just incredible run of football. And what could have been.
*Plax *Plax  
StingerProf : 11/18/2021 7:23 pm : link
And Plax*.

Should have proofread.
.  
Go Terps : 11/18/2021 7:25 pm : link
The Giants beat the other three finalists that year: Arizona and Pittsburgh on the road, and obliterated Baltimore at home.

To torture myself further I looked up the weather in East Rutherford on 1/18/2009. That game against the Cardinals would have been played in 34 degrees with precipitation coming down.

2008 Giants rushing attack: #1 in NFL
2008 Cardinals rushing attack: #32 in NFL

Motherfucker.
That three-headed monster of Bradshaw/Ward/Jacobs…  
wigs in nyc : 11/18/2021 7:45 pm : link
#1 rushing offense in the league…

Man I miss having a running game.
RE: That team wasn't going anywhere  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/18/2021 7:45 pm : link
In comment 15457778 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The home loss to Philly at the end of '08 is still horrifying. There's a good argument to be made that that was a Super Bowl thrown away. I have never been so pissed off over a loss.

IMO, you're wrong.

That 2002 team was dynamic on offense but they were similar to the Andy Reid teams of that era that couldn't chew up TOP to give the defense a breather.

I think that team would have gone to the NFC Championship if they had gotten through SF, but TB was a cut above that year no matter what would have happened.
.  
Go Terps : 11/18/2021 7:50 pm : link
I'm pretty sure they had they won in SF they were going to TB.

Tampa would have destroyed them. Kerry Collins versus a Derrick Brooks and Ronde Barber with Simeon Rice and Warren Sapp at his feet?

Pick sixes...
I don't agree  
arniefez : 11/18/2021 7:51 pm : link
That loss lead to two Super Bowls just like the fumble did. Flipper game is #1 IMO.
Quite frankly,  
section125 : 11/18/2021 8:03 pm : link
they all sucked dead donkey nuts...
Rams game for sure...  
bw in dc : 11/18/2021 8:06 pm : link
I'll add this game as well, which gets lost in the sauce with this topic.

That loss to Carolina in the 2006 playoffs 23-0 at home still pisses me off. I thought we were pretty well balanced and one of the best offenses in the NFL. Carolina was good, but not 23-0 good on the road. To lay an egg like that home was just embarrassing....
Plax shooting himself  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/18/2021 8:06 pm : link
no longer could take the top off a defense, and ran into a buzzsaw in Andy Reid who could scheme the hell out of that.
......  
Route 9 : 11/18/2021 8:07 pm : link
That pissed me the fuck off more than the Eagles 2010 game ever could.

Then what happened the next week after a miraculous comeback? SF gets their shit pushed in by Tampa Bay the next week. What a waste.

Who was the idiot on that play that cost the Giants 15 yards? Was it Shaun Williams?
Route 9.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/18/2021 8:26 pm : link
Yup. Shawn Williams had PF.
Yes read that and its a good choice  
PatersonPlank : 11/18/2021 8:37 pm : link
They also gave The Fumble in 1978, and the Miracle in the New Meadowlands, as honorable mentions. The second one is the Eagles game where they were ahead 31-10 and lost on Jackson punt return
PP.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/18/2021 8:41 pm : link
The '10 game vs. Eagles still stings, but the fact we won it all in '11 definitely takes some of the sting off. Still an UFB loss. I remember leaving the bar in rage, Haha.
Have they ever heard of Flipper Anderson?  
cpgiants : 11/18/2021 8:42 pm : link
I mean jeez
RE: .  
Optimus-NY : 11/18/2021 8:45 pm : link
In comment 15457788 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The Giants beat the other three finalists that year: Arizona and Pittsburgh on the road, and obliterated Baltimore at home.

To torture myself further I looked up the weather in East Rutherford on 1/18/2009. That game against the Cardinals would have been played in 34 degrees with precipitation coming down.

2008 Giants rushing attack: #1 in NFL
2008 Cardinals rushing attack: #32 in NFL

Motherfucker.


Fudge.
RE: That team wasn't going anywhere  
Vanzetti : 11/18/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15457778 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The home loss to Philly at the end of '08 is still horrifying. There's a good argument to be made that that was a Super Bowl thrown away. I have never been so pissed off over a loss.


I disagree. That was a year with no dominant teams.

Giants could have beaten Tampa Bay
2002  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/18/2021 8:53 pm : link
Team was killing the Tampa 2 defenses. I think they matched up with Tampa well an they were not a great offense. Fassel really figured out how to use Barbet, Toomer and Shockley.

2008 team really wore down on defense and Pierce was out and the DT was hurt. Plax being out really hurt the run game. That team was primed for a beating in the playoffs which happened.
As Chris Berman Said  
blright : 11/18/2021 9:00 pm : link
Flipper Anderson is still running! That was clearly the worst....
Let’s not dismiss the super bowl loss to Baltimore  
Sean : 11/18/2021 9:11 pm : link
They were clearly outmatched in that game, but 60 minutes from a Lombardi trophy. Those opportunities don’t come often. Kerry Collins didn’t even give them a chance, he played scared.
The 1997 loss to Minnesota in the playoffs  
BigBlueNH : 11/18/2021 9:13 pm : link
because we - Chris Calloway - couldn't recover an onside kick. Right up there with the 03 WC game and the 08 Eagles game.
RE: The 1997 loss to Minnesota in the playoffs  
bw in dc : 11/18/2021 9:17 pm : link
In comment 15457867 BigBlueNH said:
Quote:
because we - Chris Calloway - couldn't recover an onside kick. Right up there with the 03 WC game and the 08 Eagles game.


An underrated brutal loss for sure.

I was out a wedding and the reception was held at a nearby hall. When my girlfriend wasn't paying attention, I walked around looking for a TV. I found one is some random room, turned it on, and watched the last half of the 4th quarter. Just a horrible 30 minutes of real time pain...
RE: Let’s not dismiss the super bowl loss to Baltimore  
christian : 11/18/2021 9:24 pm : link
In comment 15457865 Sean said:
Quote:
They were clearly outmatched in that game, but 60 minutes from a Lombardi trophy. Those opportunities don’t come often. Kerry Collins didn’t even give them a chance, he played scared.


Collins separated his throwing shoulder in that game. It was hardly reported at the time, and Collins took the trashing without making excuses.

His teammates respected him a lot, especially Strahan.
RE: RE: Let’s not dismiss the super bowl loss to Baltimore  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/18/2021 9:41 pm : link
In comment 15457873 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15457865 Sean said:


Quote:


They were clearly outmatched in that game, but 60 minutes from a Lombardi trophy. Those opportunities don’t come often. Kerry Collins didn’t even give them a chance, he played scared.



Collins separated his throwing shoulder in that game. It was hardly reported at the time, and Collins took the trashing without making excuses.

His teammates respected him a lot, especially Strahan.


Where did you hear that about Collins' shoulder?
 
christian : 11/18/2021 9:47 pm : link
Contemporary article
ESPN link - ( New Window )
The Flipper Anderson loss hit me the hardest  
US1 Giants : 11/18/2021 9:53 pm : link
a dagger to my heart.
1989, 1997 and 2003 all horrible  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/18/2021 10:03 pm : link
...for pretty much the same reason. But 1989 was the best team.
The Flipper game  
BlueHurricane : 11/18/2021 10:03 pm : link
Left a gigantic hole in my parents hallway from my fist. I was 14 at the time and that was just a monster disappointment that I didn't handle very well.
The ‘97 loss to the Vikings  
SomeFan : 11/18/2021 10:08 pm : link
in the playoffs was no walk in the park, particularly, because we were up by 9 with maybe 2 mins to go and lost
2008.  
BH28 : 11/18/2021 10:13 pm : link
The 2007 win basically cleansed the 2003 loss for me, but the 2008 still pisses me off for reasons stated above. It was nice to see a Giants team like that so dominant throughout the year. Was too young for 86.
RE: 2008.  
FStubbs : 11/18/2021 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15457916 BH28 said:
Quote:
The 2007 win basically cleansed the 2003 loss for me, but the 2008 still pisses me off for reasons stated above. It was nice to see a Giants team like that so dominant throughout the year. Was too young for 86.


I was just starting to watch football around that time, but the 2008 team through 10-11 games was the most dominant I had ever seen the Giants. Go look up the week to week scores of the 86 Team. It was basically Giants would get a 3 point lead and then turn LT loose, game over. It wasn't until the end of the season they started blowing teams out.
RE: Route 9.  
Route 9 : 11/18/2021 10:24 pm : link
In comment 15457837 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Yup. Shawn Williams had PF.


Fuck em for that
1/5/03 was the worst - I agree with that.  
Del Shofner : 11/18/2021 10:25 pm : link
I made chicken wings at halftime. I have never made chicken wings again, they're obviously cursed.
 
christian : 11/18/2021 10:30 pm : link
There have been a number of threads about the 2008 team through the years and lots of hyperbole about Burress.

Burress had a terrible season in 2008 prior to his arrest. The Giants had some of their best performances without him in the lineup earlier in the year.

The Giants defense was struggling and Manning had a bad game against Philly.

The myth of Burress as the lynch pin of that season is based on Jim Johnson saying the Giants were easier to game plan against without Burress.

I wish a reporter would have clarified if that includes the version of Burress who was banged up, getting himself suspended, and loafing it. Because that was Burress in 2008.
I saw the Giants vs the Cards in Arizona ....  
Manny in CA : 11/18/2021 11:13 pm : link

November 23, 2008/ Plax was basically playing on one leg, gutting it out. He later shot himself on November 28th.

They still made the play-offs. Eli Manning stunk it up, and the rest of the team mailed it in, except for Brandon Jacobs. I remember him running up and down the bench trying to wake the other players (all heads hanging low)

I've never been ashamed of them till that day. Their excuse "Plax isn't here". Sorry whiney babies !
RE: That team wasn't going anywhere  
speedywheels : 11/18/2021 11:25 pm : link
In comment 15457778 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The home loss to Philly at the end of '08 is still horrifying. There's a good argument to be made that that was a Super Bowl thrown away. I have never been so pissed off over a loss.


That team wasn’t going anywhere without Plax.

I know you hate to give any credit to him - including his performance in the 07 game in GB - but he’s the reason they lost.

And because of his absence, they weren’t winning dick without him.

Jimmy Johnson - the master DC - was quoted as saying their gamelan was completely different without Plax, but we know how you hate facts that fuck with your narratives.
That loss was #2  
speedywheels : 11/18/2021 11:30 pm : link
#1 was the ‘97 Viking loss.

9 point loss with 2 min left? Muffed onside kick? At home?

That was B-R-U-T-A-L…
Oops - 9 point lead  
speedywheels : 11/18/2021 11:31 pm : link
.
speedy  
Go Terps : 11/18/2021 11:33 pm : link
Do you ever not use the word narrative or generally act like a cunt in a post? If you have a legit mental illness that makes you do that, I apologize - but that's how it comes off.

Based on when you do post about football instead of other posters, what you don't know about the sport could fill a book. Plax was a non-factor that season. He'd long since checked out well before he shot himself.
RE: speedy  
speedywheels : 11/18/2021 11:44 pm : link
In comment 15457954 Go Terps said:
[quote] Do you ever not use the word narrative or generally act like a cunt in a post? If you have a legit mental illness that makes you do that, I apologize - but that's how it comes off.

Based on when you do post about football instead of other posters, what you don't know about the sport could fill a book. Plax was a non-factor that season. He'd long since checked out well before he shot himself. [/quote

The fact that you think Plax was a non factor says all we need to know.

I keep saying narrative because you keep spewing the same bullshit…

The guy was a MAIN reason they won the SB that year. You refuse to give him any credit shows how pathetic you are.

You said on another thread how you loved Tynes for his performance in GB that day, and you would be “very happy” if he was put in the ring of honor.

Well, tynes doesn’t get that chance without Plax completely embarrassing Harris that day.

But keep denying the facts.
We're pretty clearly talking about 2008, dipshit  
Go Terps : 11/18/2021 11:46 pm : link
.
 
christian : 11/18/2021 11:51 pm : link
Burress had a good season and good post-season in ‘07.

He had diametrically different season in ‘08.

Burress the decoy as the reason the team didn’t repeat is ridiculous.
RE: We're pretty clearly talking about 2008, dipshit  
speedywheels : 11/18/2021 11:51 pm : link
In comment 15457959 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


I know, asshole.

Do you deny you don’t give any credit for the SB win to Plax?

Yeah, i thought so.

Plax was a BIG reason they got the #1 seed, and his absence was a BIG reason they lost vs PHI.

But don’t take my word for it - see the quotes from Johnson and Brian Dawkins. You know - actual professionals,’ not an armchair douchebag like you.
.  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 12:00 am : link
I called Plax for the asshole he was when he got away with firing a gun at a garbage truck in Brooklyn the day the Giants signed him. He played a big time in the title run, I can't deny that. He also barely participated in the Super Bowl because he "fell in the shower" the night before the game.

After they won the Super Bowl stories leaked out about what a prick the guy was. Steve Smith said he never saw him at practice. Feagles said he never paid him as promised for switching numbers. It was clear where things were going. So I suggested the Giants should trade him prior to 2008. That hurt your feelings so much you're still upset and bringing it up out of the blue 13 years later.

But hey, I was right. The guy was a prick. And a complete fucking moron to boot. Fucking gun in his sweatpants - amazing stupidity.

Congrats on buying his jersey.
 
christian : 11/19/2021 12:07 am : link
He wasn’t a big reason they were the no. 1 seed.

Facts from 2008:

He was dealing with a bad hamstring, and missed a game when he blew of practice and got suspended. Coughlin also sat him to start the Steelers game because he blew off a PT session.

The Giants were on a 6 game win streak where Burress hadn't gone over 50 yards receiving. He had just got blanked by Cards in the Giants win.

He was on pace for lows in TDs, yards, YPC, and 1st downs as a Giant.

During that 6 game streak Burress went:

- 3 rec/24 yds
- 3/15
- 3/34
- 1/17
- 3/47
- 0/0

The Giants best games that year Burress was either suspended or hurt.
RE: Let’s not dismiss the super bowl loss to Baltimore  
pivo : 11/19/2021 12:20 am : link
In comment 15457865 Sean said:
Quote:
They were clearly outmatched in that game, but 60 minutes from a Lombardi trophy. Those opportunities don’t come often. Kerry Collins didn’t even give them a chance, he played scared.


Game didn’t end up close, but that bogus defensive holding call when we had the TO late in the 1st half turned that game.
I’ve never been as irrationally angry after a loss  
Dave in PA : 11/19/2021 12:28 am : link
As I was after 03 disaster in SF. The helpless feeling as Jeff Garcia carved them up in the 4th quarter only to have that huge relief of a very reliable kicker in Bryant and a gimme FG to win it and move on. Just so shitty. Maybe for other older fans it wasn’t the worst, but I was a 1 year old when they won in 86 and still way too young to care about anything other than ninja turtles when they won in 90, so this was the first promising playoff run I was fully in tune to and it just sucked so bad. I also remember pretty vividly being upset when Chris Calloway screwed up the onside kick in 97, but not like how it felt in 03.
Worst Loss is like picking your favorite Beatles song  
pivo : 11/19/2021 12:32 am : link
SF ‘03,
Vikes ‘97
Jackson PR
Boys score in 11 seconds to win in OT
Countless last play FGs (Boys especially painful)
The thing with '03 Wildcard loss  
BlackLight : 11/19/2021 1:12 am : link
is that, as painful as it was at the time, it actually opened the door for what came next. It was effectively the last game of the Fassel regime. He kept his job for another season, but his team never recovered. And if we had one that game, he probably survives the following season and we don't get Coughlin or Eli.

The Ravens Super Bowl is probably the only game I've ever watched in 30 years of fandom where I turned it off well before the end. I just couldn't sit through it.
for me watching since 79  
mpinmaine : 11/19/2021 1:54 am : link
03 hurt the most
ESPN finally with a good opinion for once.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/19/2021 2:01 am : link
I made the mistake of watching that 49er playoff with my then girlfriend at the time. Suffice to say, as the 49er comeback was happening, I did not take it particularly well and lost my shit for about an hour straight in a way I had never lost my shit before, or since.

Pretty sure she never looked at me the same after that game. Dumb mistake on my part to combine a Giants playoff game with spending 'quality time' my significant other. I should've known better.
nothing happens before 2000 on ESPN  
Victor in CT : 11/19/2021 7:15 am : link
the Flipper game was the worst.

the Fumble the most shocking
While brutal  
Giants86 : 11/19/2021 7:27 am : link
I will still go with the 1978 Fumble Miracle at the Meadowlands.
More recent the 2010 loss to the Eagles was devastating.
My buddy and me where at my house and didn't talk for an hour after that one!
1989 Rams loss, while tough wasn't horrible.
The losses when your team just blows it are the most difficult.

Im just happy we have those SB's to offset these types of defeats.
I would vote "Fumble"  
Crazed Dogs : 11/19/2021 7:34 am : link
followed by "Junkin snap" and "Flipper td"..all brutal
SF  
bobc : 11/19/2021 7:41 am : link
The game we lost our long snapper and we were up big. Strahan and Terrell Owens were jawing at each other and we ended up losing the lead and the game.
i loved that  
mittenedman : 11/19/2021 7:45 am : link
02 team because Shockey was my favorite player (at the time) the Giants ever had other than LT. It was such a magical rookie year. Still temember him catching that fade over Dawkins.
I haven't got time for the pain  
Jimmy Googs : 11/19/2021 7:58 am : link
...
I still remember watching Flipper run up the tunnel when I was 8.  
DCGMan : 11/19/2021 8:17 am : link
Can’t recall where I was for the other losses mentioned. Still the most painful Giants loss for me.
08 Hurt the most for me  
crick n NC : 11/19/2021 8:26 am : link
Because that team had the best chance to win it all since I had been watching (since 90). Even without Burress the 08 Giants were going to be a tough team to beat for most of the playoff teams, although the loss of Burress to me was the most significant reason the Giants lost to the eagles in the divisional round. Burress certainly was not the only reason they exited the playoffs early (usually there are multiple reasons why anything happens), but perhaps the biggest.
I was more angry at the time  
JonC : 11/19/2021 8:26 am : link
about the SF loss, because it had no business happening. The Giants played beautifully and then stopped too soon, the classic mistake of thinking the win was in the bag. The entire thing perfectly represented visually by Shockey's TV spot on the missed field goal.

But, the 2008 loss is the one that bugs me more now, because that Giants team had a better shot at winning the Super Bowl than the 2002 Giants. Fat chance the 2002 Giants were going to beat the Bucs in Tampa the following field, their defense was a buzzsaw. But, the 2008 Giants would've been the favorite had they not stumbled against the Eagles.
I kind of think the narrative that Plax's absence directly attributed  
Chris684 : 11/19/2021 8:34 am : link
to 2008's early exit is overblown too.

If you ask me, 2008 had more to do with Coughlin/Eli's bugaboo against the Eagles. They had no problem running the Panthers out of Giants Stadium for the #1 seed. I don't really count the Minnesota game as they didn't really try to win it.
Good God...  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 8:35 am : link
the SF game will always be my #1...BUT
How about the collection of losses to the Eagles, which is the worse?

1.) The miracle in the Meadowlands
2.) The Brian Westbrook punt return game
3.) The Desean Jackson punt return game
4.) The 2008 playoff game
5.) Jake Elliott 61 yard FG

Which brings me to my next point...F the Eagles forever.
Don't forget the Clyde Simmons  
jeff57 : 11/19/2021 8:45 am : link
Blocked FG game.
That was an excruciating loss, no doubt  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2021 8:46 am : link
To blow a huge lead, against the damned Niners, and lose on a botched snap and subsequent botched call......rough.

On the other hand, in retrospect that team was unlikely to go much further in the playoffs. For that reason, I say the Flipper Anderson game was the worst.
Yeah, I would agree with that  
jeff57 : 11/19/2021 8:46 am : link
It wasn't just one play. They blew a big lead. And it was the playoffs. Unlike the Eagles 2010 game.
That Bungle by the Bay...  
BamaBlue : 11/19/2021 8:53 am : link
'03 game is the worst for me. It even eclipsed 'the Fumble', because the Giants had that game in the bag. The two things that really bothered me more than Trey Junkin (the Giants never should have been in that situation), were the Shockey drop and Strahan expending more energy pointing at the scoreboard than playing defense. I really wanted Collins to get back to the SB and this loss proved to be the closest he ever got as a Giant...
Could also argue hat the '63 championship game  
jeff57 : 11/19/2021 8:57 am : link
Was the worst. Unlike the losses to the Packers and Colts in the prior 5 years, the Giants were clearly the better team. But Tittle got hurt and had a terrible game.
Shockey was  
crick n NC : 11/19/2021 8:58 am : link
a joy to watch his rookie year. Especially for a team starved of offensive weapons over the past decade.

One thing to add about Kerry Collins. The difference between the Brown\Kanell\Graham lead offenses and a Kerry Collins lead offense was immense. Collins showed the value of being able to make all of the throws, which took the Giants to a new level.

Then the Giants transition to Manning, a quarterback who could make all of the throws (although nowhere near the arm of Collins), but also had the mind to go with it.
thanks christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/19/2021 9:10 am : link
I had no idea that Collins had that injury.
RE: Don't forget the Clyde Simmons  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15458041 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Blocked FG game.


Ugh - I totally forgot about that game...

I HATE the Eagles so much.
I also  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/19/2021 9:12 am : link
agree with christian about 2008.

That team was clearly running out of steam, and much of it had to do with the injuries piling up on defense.

You could see the warning signs before that game. And it wasn't all on Burress.

No one talks about how good that 02 Giants offense was.  
mittenedman : 11/19/2021 9:14 am : link
*Career year for Kerry Collins, who was a borderline Pro Bowl talent at his best.

*Tiki was arguably the best offensive player in the NFL.

*A WR trio of Toomer - Hilliard - Ron Dixon.

*Shockey and Dan Campbell at TE.

*Solid if unspectacular OLine getting a career year out of LT Luke Petitgout.

*Offensive Coordinator Sean Payton.

------------

That was as good an offense as the Giants have ever had IMO. They could really light it up, and oftentimes did.
RE: RE: Let’s not dismiss the super bowl loss to Baltimore  
Chris684 : 11/19/2021 9:15 am : link
In comment 15457873 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15457865 Sean said:


Quote:


They were clearly outmatched in that game, but 60 minutes from a Lombardi trophy. Those opportunities don’t come often. Kerry Collins didn’t even give them a chance, he played scared.



Collins separated his throwing shoulder in that game. It was hardly reported at the time, and Collins took the trashing without making excuses.

His teammates respected him a lot, especially Strahan.


I always really like Kerry Collins, this makes me like him even more.

In terms of ROI, he might be the greatest FA signing in NYG history.

He brought them out of the mid-90s offensive/QB nightmare with a fun, wide open passing game that brought them to and won some big games.
re: 2008  
JonC : 11/19/2021 9:16 am : link
That is correct. While some will point to the self-shooting, there were other visible dynamics adding to the torpedoing of their SB chances.
Playoff Loss? Flipper Game in 89  
LTIsTheGreatest : 11/19/2021 9:23 am : link
Watching Flipper score and then disappear into the tunnel tore my heart out. Regular season? For me was the loss to the Jets in the season finale in 88 which pretty much knocked them out of the playoffs. If they had won that game, they would have clinched the NFC East. INstead, they had to rely on the 49ers to beat the Rams that night to get in and of course, the Rams destroyed them that night to seal our fate
Jesus. I totally forgot this goddamned game  
Heisenberg : 11/19/2021 9:39 am : link
Up 38-14 in the third Q and San Fran rattles off 25 pts to win. Ugh.
Giants lose WC to Niners - ( New Window )
....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/19/2021 9:44 am : link
I think the 08 Giants win it all if Osi didn't get hurt.

I think the D lost too much steam towards the end of the year.
As far as regular season tough losses  
Chris684 : 11/19/2021 9:59 am : link
The October 2001 15-14 loss to the Greatest Show on Turf sticks out.

True that it was an early regular season game without "playoff implications" so to speak but from a pure competitive standpoint that was one of those games where you had a historically great team on the ropes and couldn't close out.

I was a little young for LT's dominance but this game by Strahan sticks out as the most dominant defensive performance by a NYG player that I've fully witnessed. I was crushed when we lost that game. Fucking Grant Wistrom.
Fred Robbins breaking BOTH of his hands in '08 was big too  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2021 10:02 am : link
Big Fred was the most underrated played on that team. He was really, really good, and tough as hell for playing through it, but that rendered him fairly ineffective.
RE: Fred Robbins breaking BOTH of his hands in '08 was big too  
BrettNYG10 : 11/19/2021 10:09 am : link
In comment 15458096 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Big Fred was the most underrated played on that team. He was really, really good, and tough as hell for playing through it, but that rendered him fairly ineffective.


You and Terps have such great memories for this stuff.

I loved Robbins. One of my favorite players. I miss actually liking players on the Giants.
Giants didn't lose against the Eagles in 2008  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/19/2021 10:15 am : link
because Plax shot himself, although that's a convienant excuse.

The defensive line was running on fumes because they didn't have the depth they did in 2007. Osi was out of the year in the preseason and that killed the Giants down the stretch.

They lost because they threw the ball 29 times when they were running the ball successfully with Jacobs and Ward.
Worst Loss  
D HOS : 11/19/2021 10:15 am : link
The wildcard game vs SF mentioned would be my #1.
The "don't punt it to Desean Jackson" would be my #2.
The loss to the WTF's this year would be my #3.

I say "would" because I try to eradicate terrible losses from my mind and there may have been worse losses that I have successfully forgotten.


RE: Fred Robbins breaking BOTH of his hands in '08 was big too  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/19/2021 10:17 am : link
In comment 15458096 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Big Fred was the most underrated played on that team. He was really, really good, and tough as hell for playing through it, but that rendered him fairly ineffective.


I remember his knees being more of an issue than anything else. He had microfracture surgery after 2008.
RE: Jesus. I totally forgot this goddamned game  
D HOS : 11/19/2021 10:17 am : link
In comment 15458084 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Up 38-14 in the third Q and San Fran rattles off 25 pts to win. Ugh. Giants lose WC to Niners - ( New Window )


They rattled off 25 points, but we actually did win - except for the refs sabotaging our last minute save. Though by getting to that point in the first place, we deserved to lose.
 
christian : 11/19/2021 10:25 am : link
I’ve become borderline obsessed with that ‘08 loss.

Things that stand out to me, that have been lost over the years:

- Bradshaw retired the opening kick to like the 30, the Giants got in the redzone, but then settled for a field goal
- Manning had a terrible pick that was returned to the goal line, on a throw where he was fading back and threw into double coverage way over Hixon
- Carney was 5/7 that year on kicks 40-49 yards, but missed 2 that day
- On 4th and short Giants went to QB sneak instead of handing the ball to Brandon Jacobs

Manning was really bad that day and Coughlin did the team no favors resting against Minnesota and having 3 weeks between meaningful games.
Yup  
Les in TO : 11/19/2021 10:27 am : link
It’s almost on the same level of meltdowns when the Houston Oilers blew a 35-3 lead in Buffalo.
RE: …  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/19/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15458120 christian said:
Quote:
I’ve become borderline obsessed with that ‘08 loss.

Things that stand out to me, that have been lost over the years:

- Bradshaw retired the opening kick to like the 30, the Giants got in the redzone, but then settled for a field goal
- Manning had a terrible pick that was returned to the goal line, on a throw where he was fading back and threw into double coverage way over Hixon
- Carney was 5/7 that year on kicks 40-49 yards, but missed 2 that day
- On 4th and short Giants went to QB sneak instead of handing the ball to Brandon Jacobs

Manning was really bad that day and Coughlin did the team no favors resting against Minnesota and having 3 weeks between meaningful games.


Eh, to your last point. He played the starters in the first half and rested them in the 2nd half and they still almost beat the Vikings who then lost to the Eagles the next week.
RE: RE: Jesus. I totally forgot this goddamned game  
rsjem1979 : 11/19/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15458116 D HOS said:
Quote:
In comment 15458084 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


Up 38-14 in the third Q and San Fran rattles off 25 pts to win. Ugh. Giants lose WC to Niners - ( New Window )



They rattled off 25 points, but we actually did win - except for the refs sabotaging our last minute save. Though by getting to that point in the first place, we deserved to lose.


The Giants still would have needed to successfully execute a FG attempt, which was no guarantee at that point.
I don't remember too many specifics from that '08 loss  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2021 10:34 am : link
But the 3rd and 25 sticks out in my mind. I still can't believe that happened.
RE: I don't remember too many specifics from that '08 loss  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/19/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15458131 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But the 3rd and 25 sticks out in my mind. I still can't believe that happened.


I think we were winning at the time.
RE: I don't remember too many specifics from that '08 loss  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/19/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15458131 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But the 3rd and 25 sticks out in my mind. I still can't believe that happened.


Yup. Which was near the Eagles goal line. SMH.
RE: RE: I don't remember too many specifics from that '08 loss  
BrettNYG10 : 11/19/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15458132 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15458131 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But the 3rd and 25 sticks out in my mind. I still can't believe that happened.



I think we were winning at the time.


Reporting both these posts to Eric. :(
I looked it up out of curiosity  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2021 10:42 am : link
They were indeed leading at the time, 11-10 (what an odd score). It was 3rd and 20 from the Eagles 15. Eagles ended up kicking a FG to take a 13-11 lead.

I had forgotten that they were stuffed on 4th and 1 and 4th and 2 on consecutive drives in the 4th.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 11/19/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15458126 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Eh, to your last point. He played the starters in the first half and rested them in the 2nd half and they still almost beat the Vikings who then lost to the Eagles the next week.


The passing game was getting stale the last quarter of the year (what impact missing a subpar Burress had on it is another question).

I didn’t see the value of getting David Carr reps in the Vikings game, when Manning was having a bad stretch.
RE: As far as regular season tough losses  
Optimus-NY : 11/19/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15458093 Chris684 said:
Quote:
The October 2001 15-14 loss to the Greatest Show on Turf sticks out.

True that it was an early regular season game without "playoff implications" so to speak but from a pure competitive standpoint that was one of those games where you had a historically great team on the ropes and couldn't close out.

I was a little young for LT's dominance but this game by Strahan sticks out as the most dominant defensive performance by a NYG player that I've fully witnessed. I was crushed when we lost that game. Fucking Grant Wistrom.


Giants were driving for the winning FG, but Jurevicius effed up.
.  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:06 am : link
My memory of 2008 is Mike Patterson and Broderick Bunkley completely dominating the interior of the OL. That was a problem that was foretold by Shaun Rogers in Cleveland earlier in the season.

Nevertheless, there was enough juice left in that team to beat Arizona (I think that would have been a thrashing) in the NFCC and then Pittsburgh in the SB.

Eli v. Roethlisberger in a Super Bowl is something we would have gotten in a perfect world.
RE: RE: As far as regular season tough losses  
Maryland Blows : 11/19/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15458147 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15458093 Chris684 said:


Quote:


The October 2001 15-14 loss to the Greatest Show on Turf sticks out
True that it was an early regular season game without "playoff implications" so to speak but from a pure competitive standpoint that was one of those games where you had a historically great team on the ropes and couldn't close out.

I was a little young for LT's dominance but this game by Strahan sticks out as the most dominant defensive performance by a NYG player that I've fully witnessed. I was crushed when we lost that game. Fucking Grant Wistrom.



Giants were driving for the winning FG, but Jurevicius effed up.


I was at that game with my brother. Ron Dayne also had a stupid penalty in the game that was extremely costly if I remember correctly.
RE: I would vote  
Maryland Blows : 11/19/2021 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15458003 Crazed Dogs said:
Quote:
followed by "Junkin snap" and "Flipper td"..all brutal


That Viking loss on an onsides kick that goes off Calloway who was as sure handed as they come was brutal. We all were talking about getting flights to go to Green Bay. I remember just sitting in my chair with the snow falling for 20 minutes after the game. We could not believe what had just happened.
RE: That team wasn't going anywhere  
Maryland Blows : 11/19/2021 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15457778 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The home loss to Philly at the end of '08 is still horrifying. There's a good argument to be made that that was a Super Bowl thrown away. I have never been so pissed off over a loss.


Now you just get excited when we lose.
08 Philly loss  
WillVAB : 11/19/2021 12:39 pm : link
Was definitely on Plax. They had Domenik Hixon starting in his place for Christ sake.

The defense played well enough to win that day but the offense just wasn’t the same without Plax’s presence, even in a down season for him.
Worst Giants Loss? 8/17/69, PRE-SEASON  
clatterbuck : 11/19/2021 12:51 pm : link
to the Dog-Ass Jets. Yeah, I know, but it wasn't just a loss, it was the NFL and the Giants v. the upstart Jets, a chance to restore order in NY and the rest of the known universe and the Giants didn't just lose, they were humiliated, whipped physically and mentally, abused, laughed at. It was like Ali taunting Sonny Liston while beating the hell out of him. It handed NY, the back pages, and the region to the Jets. It was worse than giving up 72 points to Washington, worse than the Fumble, worse than Flipper Anderson, worse than Try Junkin, worse than Plax, even worse than DeSean effin' Jackson. They should have declared the Yale Bowl a toxic superfund site after that game.
RE: …  
djm : 11/19/2021 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15457929 christian said:
Quote:
There have been a number of threads about the 2008 team through the years and lots of hyperbole about Burress.

Burress had a terrible season in 2008 prior to his arrest. The Giants had some of their best performances without him in the lineup earlier in the year.

The Giants defense was struggling and Manning had a bad game against Philly.

The myth of Burress as the lynch pin of that season is based on Jim Johnson saying the Giants were easier to game plan against without Burress.

I wish a reporter would have clarified if that includes the version of Burress who was banged up, getting himself suspended, and loafing it. Because that was Burress in 2008.


I always said the biggest loss of 2008 happened in the summer when Osi was lost for the year. The defense wore down and the giants played a poor game at the worst moment. Fg attempts were missed. I think if the giants played that game ten times, as worn down as they were they win it 7 times. Earlier in the year they were practically unbeatable. Not that day.

We lost a super star passrusher for the year. We win it all if that doesn’t happen, never mind plax.

89 and 08 were so different yet so similar at the same time. Weird parallels and differences.
Flipper game  
weeg in the bronx : 11/19/2021 1:42 pm : link
It was brtual. From my nose bleed seats you saw the whole thing unfold. The stadium was compeltely silent as everyone just turned and walked out. I was at most of the game son the list - all the brutal Eagle losses, Vikings etc, Flipper was the worst for me.
1/5/03 WC loss and Ravens SB loss are about about the same in terms of  
Grey Pilgrim : 11/19/2021 1:57 pm : link
horrendousness imo.

Both brutal.
5 toughest  
Stan in LA : 11/19/2021 2:12 pm : link
Quote:
Since the NFL annexed the AFL in 1970, the New York Giants have made the playoffs a total of 14 times. Three of those campaigns ended in Super Bowl victories, one ended at the Super Bowl and the rest are indelibly etched in the far horizons of my brain as events that I would like to receive a refund for.

Not included in the below list of suicidal moments are pre-1985 games plus every playoff loss in the Tom Coughlin era. Also missing is the forgettable 44-3 bodyslamming by San Francisco in January of 1994—Phil Simms and Lawrence Taylor’s final game as Giants (I’m pretending it didn’t happen).

The rest are all the usual suspects, mostly games the Giants should have—or could have—won but for some reason or another, did not. Enjoy.

See the 5! - ( New Window )
RE: 08 Philly loss  
christian : 11/19/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15458260 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Was definitely on Plax. They had Domenik Hixon starting in his place for Christ sake.

The defense played well enough to win that day but the offense just wasn’t the same without Plax’s presence, even in a down season for him.


I’ve posted these numbers a few times over the years:

Hixon technically started 7 games, including the Pitt game where Coughlin sat Burress to start, and then brought him on.

- Hixon (7 starts): 26 Rec/414 Yds/15.8 YPC/2 TDs

- Burress (10 games): 35 Rec/454 Yds/13 YPC/4 TDs

Rush Yards:
With Burress: 156/game
Without Burress: 159/game
christian..  
Sean : 11/19/2021 2:15 pm : link
You are correct, but Plax always gave Philly fits. They always struggled stopping him.
RE: christian..  
christian : 11/19/2021 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15458356 Sean said:
Quote:
You are correct, but Plax always gave Philly fits. They always struggled stopping him.

The Giants had a really solid game against Philly earlier in the year were Burress didn’t factor at all after an early TD catch.

If the reasoning is if Burress gets healthy and gets his head out of his ass, the Giants had a better chance of beating Philly, sure.

But all things equal, if he continues on the same trajectory that season, he wasn’t an impactful player.

If the Giants hadn’t been winning in spite of him, he would have gotten much more shit for how bad he was playing.
Funny how it's always very easy to blame the guy you hate the most ..  
Manny in CA : 11/19/2021 11:28 pm : link

Like I said, I was there in Arizona when he played his last game with the Giants.

All the Giants fans were surprised to see him on the field, as he was hobbling around. He caught one pass, on the first play of the game, and he was done. As I recall, he'd been playing through a lot of pain, for several games, previously.

Sure he pulled a stupid a couple of days later, but come the Philly game, I don't think he was in shape to be the Eagles killer he'd always been before
 
christian : 11/20/2021 12:04 am : link
Burress was hurt and was having a difficult season.

He was without a doubt my favorite player from that era, despite all of the really dumb things he pulled.

I don’t doubt his arrest caused a major distraction. But he just wasn’t a big part of the success the Giants had earlier that year.
 
christian : 11/20/2021 12:07 am : link
And on a really nice note sounds like Burress is having a positive life after football. He’s had really nice things to say about Jones and the Giants. He also went back to college.
That game hurts the most...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/20/2021 1:22 am : link
Because we were good enough to have a strong playoff run AND we never really lost, officially. When the league apologizes and says the Giants should have had one more snap, which would have been a field goal attempt from inside the five, we shouldn't have been eliminated.

I'll never fully get over that game.

Also it was the game I turned on Fassel. I blame him for letting the team leave the field. I never would have left the field without a much bigger argument.
Absolutely right  
bigspicedaddy : 11/20/2021 10:43 am : link
Been a Giants season ticket holder for 44 years and I believe the Flipper Anderson game was the worst by far. Never walked out of our stadium with 80,000 fans in complete silence.
RE: We stumbled into the playoffs in 08.  
DisgruntledNYGfan : 11/21/2021 12:08 am : link
In comment 15457785 StingerProf said:
Quote:
As the 1st seed. That team was done once placed shot himself. 1-3 after play went down. Only win was when our 3 backs ran all over Carolina. Sad. That 07 team winning against an undefeated team, then going 11-1 the following year (only loss to a horrible browns team on Monday night)… then Plac shot himself and it was gone. That team has an argument of being the best in any 16 game span. Including 07 playoffs they were 15-1. Beating Tampa, Dallas and Green Bay all on the road. Then the 16-0 pats in the super bowl. Just incredible run of football. And what could have been.


Yeah, also Steelers on the road. Ran a train on the Ravens, also.
1/5/03 was definitely the worst I’ve ever felt  
Leg of Theismann : 11/21/2021 6:01 am : link
The ‘97 loss to the Vikings as also top 3, but I think I have to put the 34-7 drubbing by the Ravens in 2nd place because I was actually at that game. Only SB I’ve ever been to and it was not only the worst super bowl ever but also one of the most painful Giants losses in history— and I had to fly to Tampa FL to experience this nonsense smh.

The only highlight was that I met Dick Vitale walking out after the game though. I was 13 at the time, and actually blanked on his name lol. I was like “hey! You’re…. You’re …. “ . He goes “”Dick Vitale how ya doin?” Then he saw my Giants hat and said in the most Dick Vitale way ever “Giants Giants— not today!” Good to at least know he’s the same off camera as he is on lol.
The one thing I’ll say about the ‘08 playoff loss  
Leg of Theismann : 11/21/2021 6:14 am : link
Over the years I’ve become slightly less convinced it was entirely because of Plax’s absence. For a few reasons. I mean for one we did dominate the Skins 23-7 on the road like the day after Plax shot himself. Also the Eagles really beat us pretty good that day so would just the addition of Plax really made the needed difference? Philly had TC/Eli’s number in general Im not convinced we would’ve had a guaranteed victory over them with Plax.

But also— You can go back in history and find a ton of teams who carried momentum over from a SB win into the next year but then eventually sputtered out in the playoffs. We were the beneficiaries of it with GB in 2011. It makes sense that often the hottest team to start the year is often the super bowl winner from the previous year, but in this era it’s just very difficult to maintain that for an entire season + postseason and repeat as champs. Regardless of whether you won the year before or not it just seems to be increasingly harder than it was like 30+ years ago to maintain being the best/hottest team in the league from the beginning of the year to the very end.
No question though btw  
Leg of Theismann : 11/21/2021 6:22 am : link
That loss was top 5 worst for me in terms of how awful it felt. Such an incredibly anti climactic ending to a great season. And to lose to the Eagles no less.

I still feel worse about that one than the 2010 Eagles comeback over us. Believe it or not, for some reason at the end of that 2010 game, I was in shock for about 10 min, then for some reason a strange calm came over me and I just said “hey there are worse things in the world, I’m just gonna be grateful for the things I have in life.” Lol I never had that feeling after any of our heartbreaking losses but for some reason I took that loss incredibly well. The funny thing is, it’s one of the few awful losses that we know led directly to the mindset/approach that won a super bowl the following year: “Finish.”
Ok  
Route 9 : 11/21/2021 8:27 am : link
Christian ... So what's your point? I'm not being snarky but what are you getting at? Are you saying Philly was the better team that day in January 2009 and would've lost anyway WITH Plaxico? They were the better coached team and were coming in hot anyway? What's my attention going toward here?

With Burress on the field in that 2008 game away at Philly on SNF you mentioned, the Giants scored 36 or something points with Burress on the field and he did score. I think.

I was at that January 2009 game and I'm not going to break down schemes and everything but Philly's defense didn't fear the Giants offense at all that day. They looked as if they could do whatever they wanted to.

I think if he was there that day he would've definitely at least created a presence and I hate to say decoy but something along the lines of Super Bowl 42.

Eli did play a bad game but maybe 5% of that game was on the defense's fault.
The San Fran wild card one stung the most. Not that it  
NYGgolfer : 11/21/2021 9:08 am : link
was likely a "lost ring" type of year but that meltdown could have prevented in by so many different players and plays. And then to have the bad FG snap and incorrect ref call was just salt in the wound to finish it.

The 2008 Giants ran out of steam as the season went about a month too long for them. Of course the Plaxico loss had an impact on the field as the offense was far more efficient when he was on it, even if he wasn't catching a lot of passes that year. But the Giants were showing cracks on both the Offensive and Defensive Lines as the season ended, even despite that big running night versus Carolina that made everybody feel good. Coughlin saw it and played it conservatively to finish the year out but that and the bye week off didn't prop them up at all.

Eagles and their coaches knew Eli well enough that they smelled blood. They no longer had to roll Brian Dawkins or Quintin Mikell over to Plax's side for the late regular season game and the playoff game, and Asante Samuel could free lance it a bit more and cause tough looks for Eli and passing game. And no surprise, the Giant offense sputtered in both. Season over.
 
christian : 11/21/2021 11:52 am : link
- The Giants scored their most points of the year with Burress out
- The Giants had arguably their best rushing performance of the year, in a make or break game to decide the no. 1 seed with Burress out
- The Giants beat the eventual Super Bowl champs with Burress suspended half the game
- The Giants beat the eventual NFC champs with Burress playing one series (reportedly he suited up just to get his games played bonus)
- The Giants beat the Skins the weekend Burress shot himself and threw the team in disarray

The Giants were pretty damn good all year without Burress. I don’t doubt Burress as a decoy would have been a positive.

But the real answers lie in the question: what else was different between the games the Giants dominated without Burress and the playoff game?
Reading this thread is very interesting  
SomeFan : 11/21/2021 12:35 pm : link
it appears everyone knows where and what they were doing as detailed as a poster knowing they made chicken wings at halftime! These losses have an impact similar to a shocking death like JFK or John Lennon.
RE: Absolutely right  
SomeFan : 11/21/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15458735 bigspicedaddy said:
Quote:
Been a Giants season ticket holder for 44 years and I believe the Flipper Anderson game was the worst by far. Never walked out of our stadium with 80,000 fans in complete silence.


Agree, I was at that game. We had beaten up Everett pretty well in the first half too so I had thought we were in good shape. Those were the days when there were no non-Giants fans at the game (particularly a Rams tea) so at the bitter end, it really was silent and just a slow, numb walk out to the parking lot and car.
RE: Reading this thread is very interesting  
christian : 11/21/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15459433 SomeFan said:
Quote:
it appears everyone knows where and what they were doing as detailed as a poster knowing they made chicken wings at halftime! These losses have an impact similar to a shocking death like JFK or John Lennon.


I was too young to remember the Flipper game, but I can recite every detail of my day against 9ers in 2003.
RE: RE: Reading this thread is very interesting  
SomeFan : 11/21/2021 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15459439 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15459433 SomeFan said:


Quote:


it appears everyone knows where and what they were doing as detailed as a poster knowing they made chicken wings at halftime! These losses have an impact similar to a shocking death like JFK or John Lennon.



I was too young to remember the Flipper game, but I can recite every detail of my day against 9ers in 2003.


I believe that 100%.
RE: Flipper game  
djm : 11/21/2021 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15458317 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
It was brtual. From my nose bleed seats you saw the whole thing unfold. The stadium was compeltely silent as everyone just turned and walked out. I was at most of the game son the list - all the brutal Eagle losses, Vikings etc, Flipper was the worst for me.



I was nosebleed right above it. Flipper ran right under me.
1958...  
BMac : 11/21/2021 5:54 pm : link
...Alan Ameche runs it in for the score and the championship. Devastating!
97 and 02 playoffs  
djm : 11/22/2021 10:43 am : link
are tough to top. 89 Flipper is in its own category with 08 as great teams that played poorly in a home playoff loss. I guess you could even sneak 05 in there...but 08 and 89 are different than 02 and 97. The latter has NO business losing those games while the former most certainly did.

I don't like hearing well those teams weren't going anywhere anyway, how does anyone truly know? 02 team was far from great, but it was far from harmless as well. It had something cooking on offense and the D wasn't bad despite crumbling in that game at the stick.

97 team might even be worse because that D was near dominant and the offense sort of knew what it was by December of that year. It wasn't going to score a bunch of points but it was actually pretty consistent down the stretch. They might have scored 23 pts in GB one week later and what if that D took advantage of Brett Favre? Sad that game never came to pass, maybe even more so than 02 team going to Tampa.

Hate wasting chances in the postseason. 02 and 97 left a lot of football on the field. Sucks we will never know.
Concerning the loss to SFO in the Ice Chip game 2002  
Batenhorst7 : 11/22/2021 1:09 pm : link
Ernie Accorsi was interviewed the next morning in his hotel room in SFO By WFAN Radio

When asked how long it would take to get over that loss Accorsi responded and I quote-

"I'll take it to my grave"

Steve Mariucci- when asked about the Giants not getting a pass interference call at end of the game- officials let it go

No loss in human history was worse than that loss. I too will take it to my grave

The DeShaun Jackson moonwalk TD was just a regular seasons game as I recall

"Bummer"



RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 11/22/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15459413 christian said:
Quote:
- The Giants scored their most points of the year with Burress out
- The Giants had arguably their best rushing performance of the year, in a make or break game to decide the no. 1 seed with Burress out
- The Giants beat the eventual Super Bowl champs with Burress suspended half the game
- The Giants beat the eventual NFC champs with Burress playing one series (reportedly he suited up just to get his games played bonus)
- The Giants beat the Skins the weekend Burress shot himself and threw the team in disarray

The Giants were pretty damn good all year without Burress. I don’t doubt Burress as a decoy would have been a positive.

But the real answers lie in the question: what else was different between the games the Giants dominated without Burress and the playoff game?


The biggest difference on Offense I recall was Plax being gone, at least in the head-to-head Eagle games.

While his individual stats may not have been much in the first match-up, his presence had to have been the difference maker in how the Giants were able to execute on offense as well as how the Eagle defense played us. They were also far more familiar with our players and gameplans so the respective head-to-heads versus the Eagles presents a fairly compelling case in my view.

What else can you point to that caused such a material change to the NYG offensive results below? Other significant personnel changes or injuries on either side (not sure)...

8-Nov (with Plax)
first downs 26
total yards 401
points 36
TOP min 39

7-Dec (without Plax)
first downs 14
total yards 211
points 7
TOP min 25

11-Jan (without Plax)
first downs 16
total yards 307
points 9
TOP min 30
1997 playoff lose to Vikings.  
blue1986 : 11/22/2021 7:45 pm : link
We were up by 13 when Tiki Barber fumbled on our 2-yard line and they score which changed the momentum and the Vikings went on to win. I could not sleep that night
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