Here are the Giants selections:
Round One (#6) Ikem Ekwonu; OT; North Carolina
Round One (#8) Tyler Linderbaum; OL; Iowa
Round Two (#41) Christian Harris; LB; Alabama
Round Three (#69) Martin Emerson Jr; CB; Mississippi State.
Round Three (#72) Auburn EDGE Derick Hall; EDGE; Auburn
Giants are at their rope's end along their offensive line so snagging two in Round One makes a lot of sense. And while the Giants are desperate for pass rushers, an argument can be made they are equally desperate at ILB, so I have no problem whatsoever with Christian Harris at 41.
As for CB Marin Emerson Jr. at 69, I have no problem whatsoever with this player. My problem is a general sense of revulsion at spending ANY draft capital on the secondary given the vast amount of resources the Giants have already committed.
At 72 is Derick Hall, who I have not seen play, but he seems to be putting together a very nice season with 41 tackles; 7.5 TFL; and 5 Sacks. And at some point in the Draft, the Giants will look to find Lorenzo Carter's replacement and maybe this guy is the one.
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So this is your troll schtick? Come up with spicy hot takes and attribute them to the anonymous totality of BBI?
I'll go ahead and offer a hot take of my own - your current handle won't even last until December.
Lord knows you are going to have to get pretty creative to keep spinning this disaster.
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and questionable inline...
Can you help illustrate what you mean by "offline" and "inline" LB?
ILB and MLBs almost always play offline and need to be stout against the run and have a bit of fluidity for the run and pass coverage. And 4-3 OLBs don't strictly play on the line. Carter seems to be strictly suited as a pass rushing specialist.
One thing is for damn sure and it's that the Giants do not draft like fans do. And I hope they don't hire and fire like fans do, too. I want to say Gettleman and Judge back next year! Patience was rewarded following disappointing 2006 and 2010 seasons.
We do agree on hoping they figure it out and are rewarded for patience. But, I'm ready to move on to the next GM at the same time, DG's not the right dude to run the show, imo.
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In comment 15458359 Spiciest Memelord said:
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and questionable inline...
Can you help illustrate what you mean by "offline" and "inline" LB?
ILB and MLBs almost always play offline and need to be stout against the run and have a bit of fluidity for the run and pass coverage. And 4-3 OLBs don't strictly play on the line. Carter seems to be strictly suited as a pass rushing specialist.
He can't even rush the passer that well.
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In comment 15458359 Spiciest Memelord said:
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and questionable inline...
Can you help illustrate what you mean by "offline" and "inline" LB?
ILB and MLBs almost always play offline and need to be stout against the run and have a bit of fluidity for the run and pass coverage. And 4-3 OLBs don't strictly play on the line. Carter seems to be strictly suited as a pass rushing specialist.
But the "offline" and "inline" terminology... that's something that you made up?
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In comment 15458389 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15458359 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
and questionable inline...
Can you help illustrate what you mean by "offline" and "inline" LB?
ILB and MLBs almost always play offline and need to be stout against the run and have a bit of fluidity for the run and pass coverage. And 4-3 OLBs don't strictly play on the line. Carter seems to be strictly suited as a pass rushing specialist.
But the "offline" and "inline" terminology... that's something that you made up?
I guess NFL fans mainly think in terms of sam, mike and will, whatever they are nowadays. But in college ball a lot of defenses play 3-3 stack and 3-4 tite (along 'traditional' 4-2 nickel) to counter spread offenses, and so what they usually recruit and train are LBs that play off the line and you can broadly categorize as requiring agility and athleticism to play in space against pass and run.
The traditional 3-4 ER LB or versatile OLB who play on the line is not as prevalent. It's a game of geometry.
Agreed. We have had problems setting the edge in the run for years. Carter is part of that problem. I think he's a capable backup but not a starter. Ojulari and Roche have much higher ceilings.
- 2018 Giants cut Eli Manning save $33M
- 2018 Giants sign Foles or Tyrod 2/$12.5
- 2018 Giants draft Darnold (oops, can't win 'em all)
Moving forward with Saquon as the center of the offense ...
- 2019 Giants draft DE Josh Allen, and BPA defense or OL with #17 pick (I also knew they loved Dexter, but me not so much)
Which set us perfectly for, as I predicted NYG would pick top 5 in 2020 :
- 2020 Giants draft QB Justin Herbert
You have to have good at evaluating talent and stacking your board. You have to be careful reaching for a Daniel Jones unless you are fooking really sure, and I was not sold on him as a top 20 talent. I thought he was a better pick in the 2nd round, many seasoned scouts pegged him for the 3rd round. There is a lot of nuance to my detailed draft comments while the draft season is in motion you're either missing or now conflating in your mind after the fact.
I get it, you're frustrated just like me. I do not claim to be an NFL pro, but I sure as fook had a better plan for some of their most crucial foundational decisions AT THOSE TIMES. No hindsight.
Looks pretty fooking good now in hindsight tho, right?
There's no question the Giants tried to build around Manning for far too long. Mara allowed Eli's contributions to the franchise to interfere with his judgment about when it was time to let him go. DG bought into that to a large extent, and then compounded the problem by making a whole raft load of bad FA moves.
I wanted Josh Allen in 2019. I also wanted to trade #37 for Rosen. I would have been OK with taking Jones or Lock at #17, but was fine punting the whole QB decision for another year. I was fine with D. Lawrence at #17.
There was no way to know in 2019 whether the Giants would have been able to draft Herbert in 2020. Herbert could have had a bad year or been hurt in 2019. I also doubt the Giants would have drafted Herbert in 2020 if they had picked Darnold in 2018.
It's either or...
It's either or...
I think that's Jon's point. Version A is at the top, and it's a non-Saquon scenario (which yields Darnold), and then version B is below that, and it's a Saquon-centric scenario that yields them Herbert.
* keeping Eli in the saddle
* thinking the 2018 roster could actually compete
* making Solder the highest paid OL in history
* missing on some quality QBs in 2018 draft...
* ...and then not trading out of #2 overall pick to take a RB
* panicking on Jones with #6 overall pick
* using all those draft picks on Baker and other CBs and missing on every one
* spotting an opportunity with Leonard Williams but misreading negotiation process
* providing Jones with no offensive playmakers until his 3rd year
* NEVER stabilizing the Offensive Line
but maybe Milton is right, we should try and extend Getts....
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Saquon is the center of the offense.
It's either or...
I think that's Jon's point. Version A is at the top, and it's a non-Saquon scenario (which yields Darnold), and then version B is below that, and it's a Saquon-centric scenario that yields them Herbert.
Yeah, don't follow the typing/scenarios. Then what are Foles and Tyrod doing up there too?
No worries, as it doesn't matter. 2018 should have always been about scouting a quality QB or getting out of that #2 pick to me. They missed on the roster, the QB in place, the QBs available and the value of that #2 pick versus defaulting with a RB...
Fast forward to April 2020, I was right, and Herbert was there.
Posted all of this in real time.
If 2006 and 2010 were disappointing, what are these seasons? The 2006 team started 6-2 before getting slammed with injuries. They still made the playoffs and only lost by 3 on the road in Philly. The 2010 team went 10-6 and were a shitty 7 minutes from getting a bye in the NFC.
Are you seriously comparing the current state to either of those seasons?
Some people have lost all conception of what the Giants are.
GT, I just don't get it. I don't know how a rational person looks @ DG's tenure & goes, 'Yeah! Let's bring him back!' He's done incalculable harm to this organization. I remember when the dude who followed Parcells was an obscenity on this website. Well, DG makes him look like a football savant.
It used to be that a sub-.500 record was viewed with disdain. Shit, Coughlin nearly got fired in 2006 for going 9-7 and making the playoffs. I was at the Saints game that year when fans were chanting "Tom must go". Now there will be people claiming progress and optimism if we finish 7-10 or 8-9.
The standards have plummeted.
It used to be that a sub-.500 record was viewed with disdain. Shit, Coughlin nearly got fired in 2006 for going 9-7 and making the playoffs. I was at the Saints game that year when fans were chanting "Tom must go". Now there will be people claiming progress and optimism if we finish 7-10 or 8-9.
The standards have plummeted.
Sadly, it’s happened to Mara. Remember his comments after 2009? He was livid with an 8-8 finish. There should be a case study on this.
I just hope Mara isn't one of the Miltons of the world. If he pulls this injuries excuse...I, uh, will not be pleased.
Fast forward to April 2020, I was right, and Herbert was there.
Posted all of this in real time.
The fact that you were right is just happenstance because nobody could have known in 2019 that the Giants would be able or willing to draft Herbert in 2020. That does not mean that the Giants should have drafted Jones at #6 or at all in 2019. (As I said, I would not have hated picking Jones at #17, but my preference was to trade #37 for Rosen.) But it does mean that you cannot take "credit" for being "right" in 2019 that the Giants would be able to draft Herbert in 2020.
Let us say the Giants cut Eli in 2019 and signed a veteran as you suggest as a "stopgap." And then some other team drafts Herbert in 2020. Then what?
It was well known that DG loved Herbert and would have picked him over Jones. But my guess is that he was afraid that if he did not draft Jones he might well miss out on both. That fear might have been enough to justify drafting Jones at #17, but not at #6 IMO. DG's answer of course was that he was sure Jones would go long before #17. My answer to that is what I said, namely take Lock at #17, trade #37 for Rosen, or build the rest of the team and get the QB later.
Later could have been this year in fact. Why? Because the Giants were in a position to draft Fields or M. Jones this year. When you suck as long as the Giants have, you will almost always be drafting high enough the next year to have a chance at drafting a premier QB. M. Jones also slipped all the way to #15. So even if the Giants were picking say 17th, they could have easily traded up in front of NE to take him.
As does mine, but for 2018...
Later could have been this year in fact. Why? Because the Giants were in a position to draft Fields or M. Jones this year. When you suck as long as the Giants have, you will almost always be drafting high enough the next year to have a chance at drafting a premier QB. M. Jones also slipped all the way to #15. So even if the Giants were picking say 17th, they could have easily traded up in front of NE to take him.
This is a very interesting point. Now, I would have drafted Slater. I mean, what a player thus far - just add water, stir, and, voila, a Pro Bowl caliber LT.
However, going Field would have been very bold and courageous. Overall, his season has been a struggle, but in his last two games versus San Fran and Pittsburgh Fields has showcased some high level/elite skills. He made a couple of throws in that Pittsburgh game that Jones could NEVER make. And that was very irritating... ;)
* I was wrong with Beal in 2018 so let me panic with Baker in 2019
* I was wrong with OBJ in 2018 so let me try and fix it with Tate in 2019
* I was wrong with Solder in 2018-19 so let me try and fix it with Thomas in 2020
* I was wrong with Baker in 2019 so let me try and fix it with Bradbury in 2020
* I was wrong with Barkley in 2018 so let me hand this problem off to a new GM in 2022.
See the trend...
I agree. I think so many get wrapped up in the Barkley pick, but over drafting Jones was worse.
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you're still free to keep looking, you're not committed to the wrong QB trapped squarely in QB Hell. Of course it's happenstance and a healthy degree of luck involved, but I'd rather be flexible and building the roster until I find the right QB.
I agree. I think so many get wrapped up in the Barkley pick, but over drafting Jones was worse.
Both were overdrafted, and both were mistakes. Determining the lesser of two evils is just salt in the wound...
It's a stretch because of the way the Giants do business, but at the time it would have made a ton of sense. They probably would have been able to trade Jones for a first rounder+ at the time.
1. Draft Herbert
2. Trade Jones
3. Gain assets for Jones and a year of rookie QB pay scale
4. Improve at quarterback
No team should hesitate to draft a quarterback if one is available that grades higher than the one they currently have. Herbert is more talented than Jones by every objective measure; a sound policy framework would have seen the Giants draft Herbert without hesitation.
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I tend to side on the 'We shoulda drafted Herbert in '20' to be somewhat disingenuous. Jones-for a rookie-showed a ton of promise in '19. So we're going to draft ANOTHER QB in '20 after how Jones performed in '19? I think that's a stretch.
It's a stretch because of the way the Giants do business, but at the time it would have made a ton of sense. They probably would have been able to trade Jones for a first rounder+ at the time.
1. Draft Herbert
2. Trade Jones
3. Gain assets for Jones and a year of rookie QB pay scale
4. Improve at quarterback
No team should hesitate to draft a quarterback if one is available that grades higher than the one they currently have. Herbert is more talented than Jones by every objective measure; a sound policy framework would have seen the Giants draft Herbert without hesitation.
If a team knew Giants had to move Jones why would they give that sort of compensation?
Agreed.
Right. Jones had too many boxes checked - Cutcliffe, Manning Camp, Eli-like demeanor, Fan of the Mannings, etc. Herbert, despite all of his talent, couldn't overcome that.
Until the QB problem is solved, the error was Barkley over Josh Allen.
I don't care who was pro-Allen or anti-Allen at BBI. What matters is the people paid big dollars to get these decisions correct, choked. And chose the door labeled "SAFE"...
TE- Engram is likely gone. Rudolph should be a cap casualty IMO. Kaden Smith is a depth guy. Giants need to go find a do it all TE. I like Wydermyer from A&M in Round 2 or 3 if he makes it.
DL- Besides Williams and Lawrence, the Giants have just Raymond Johnson on the roster next year. Would not be surprised to see DL addressed with one of the first 5 picks.
RT
G
C
TE
DL
EDGE
LB
HM: CB but I believe this can wait as they have 2 starting caliber corners and Robinson/Holmes/Williams as depth
RT
G
C
TE
DL
EDGE
LB
HM: CB but I believe this can wait as they have 2 starting caliber corners and Robinson/Holmes/Williams as depth
Maybe safety if we let Peppers walk?
Look at the ‘86 Giants Super Bowl OL. Two undrafted USFL OL, two 8th round picks, one 3rd round pick…
Not an awesome tailback, but a phenomenal FB.
The Giants are all about defense, from the days of Huff, and LT. They need a pass rush first and foremost or any one of us could find an open receiver with the time opposing QBs have to pass the ball. FWIW.
A huge portion. The narrative is EA won those Superbowls, Reese prevented us from winning 4-5 Superbowls, and Gettleman is just still trying to clean up Reese's mess.
The team the day Reese was fired would beat this team and I'm not kidding.
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the Giants should be able to go BPA at any of these positions
RT
G
C
TE
DL
EDGE
LB
HM: CB but I believe this can wait as they have 2 starting caliber corners and Robinson/Holmes/Williams as depth
Maybe safety if we let Peppers walk?
If a QB doesn't make the grade, the targeted positions that absolutely require some talent are OL, OLB/ER and TE.
Hope his rehab goes well, but Peppers should be done as Giant either way...
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In comment 15458401 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 15458389 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15458359 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
and questionable inline...
Can you help illustrate what you mean by "offline" and "inline" LB?
ILB and MLBs almost always play offline and need to be stout against the run and have a bit of fluidity for the run and pass coverage. And 4-3 OLBs don't strictly play on the line. Carter seems to be strictly suited as a pass rushing specialist.
But the "offline" and "inline" terminology... that's something that you made up?
I guess NFL fans mainly think in terms of sam, mike and will, whatever they are nowadays. But in college ball a lot of defenses play 3-3 stack and 3-4 tite (along 'traditional' 4-2 nickel) to counter spread offenses, and so what they usually recruit and train are LBs that play off the line and you can broadly categorize as requiring agility and athleticism to play in space against pass and run.
The traditional 3-4 ER LB or versatile OLB who play on the line is not as prevalent. It's a game of geometry.
This was helpful.
For example, I was able to figure out that you're just the newest iteration of idiotsavant.