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Jason Garrett Admits To This Lingering Giants Crisis

gidiefor : Mod : 11/19/2021 10:05 am
Quote:
Jason Garrett said it: The Giants’ offensive line rebuild is not close to where it needs to be.

- more - by Paul Schwartz - ( New Window )
Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Sean : 11/19/2021 10:07 am : link
.
While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/19/2021 10:12 am : link
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
We see you Jason  
arniefez : 11/19/2021 10:15 am : link
and you're right, It's a good try. But it doesn't deflect from the fact that you're as bad at your job as the GM is at his. Hopefully both of you are on your last 8 games with the Giants.
Lots of teams have OL issues  
averagejoe : 11/19/2021 10:26 am : link
The NY Giants never score TD's. Not ever. It is somebody's fault. And someone must pay. JG and Daniel "No TD" Jones are not getting it done.
RE: While I agree with all he said  
Section331 : 11/19/2021 10:33 am : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..


Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.

But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
Princeton grad knows what's up  
Matt in SGS : 11/19/2021 10:33 am : link
when this season ends, Judge will still be here. But there needs to be a pound of flesh given. I think the Gettleman discussions are a waste of time to be honest. He's 70 & I believe his deal is up at end of the season. I think he retires at the end. The question is do they just give the job to Abrams and keep the status quo or find a new GM.

As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
Wait...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/19/2021 10:36 am : link
is something wrong with the NYG Offensive Line?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/19/2021 10:36 am : link
I still think Mara forced Garrett on JJ.
"Dated"? So sick of this! Ugh!  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 10:37 am : link
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!

The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.

No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.

This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.

Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
Like everything else  
mako J : 11/19/2021 10:38 am : link
There’s truth and there’s spin. Each decides the ratio that tastes best.
Obviously..  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 10:40 am : link
the OL rebuild has not gone according to plan AND there's no doubt that JG is trying to call a game with one hand tied behind his back.

BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.

What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?

What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?

What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?



RE: While I agree with all he said  
Johnny5 : 11/19/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..

Well, he sure ain't lyin... lol
Mara's forced experienced weasel Garrett on JJ  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 10:48 am : link
but could be worse like the complete disaster Jets, with a bunch of young wiz kid bbi and media darling coaches to teach Jones how to throw sidearm.
Two nits to pick with Schwartz  
FranknWeezer : 11/19/2021 10:54 am : link
1. He credits Garrett for putting in place the framework of the offensive line (roster) in Dallas. Out of the other side of his mouth, he absolves Garrett of that responsibility with NYG and places that responsibility the GM.
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
No shit  
jeff57 : 11/19/2021 10:54 am : link
For about a decade now. And has only gotten worse
Let's Be Honest  
Jeffrey : 11/19/2021 10:56 am : link
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:10 am : link
In comment 15458101 Sean said:
Quote:
.


The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.



Really?

You think it was Daniel Jones and NOT Barkley?
RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Johnny5 : 11/19/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.

Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Dnew  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:22 am : link
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.

I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
RE:  
upnyg : 11/19/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15458136 Debaser said:
Quote:
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!

The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.

No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.

This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.

Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.

I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.

You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
RE: RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15458169 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.


Then why have we sucked since 2012?


Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
RE: Obviously..  
BillT : 11/19/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15458139 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
the OL rebuild has not gone according to plan.

The OL rebuild had no plan. One OL drafted in 2019. zero drafted on 2019 and 2021, three in 2020 What the heck kind of "plan" is that. Absurd.
I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
JonC : 11/19/2021 11:26 am : link
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
JonC  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:29 am : link
You're forgetting Jackson :)
Keep in mind that this is a Paul Schwartz story  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/19/2021 11:29 am : link
and that, not always, but often, he is presaging the sentiment of the FO
RE: JonC  
JonC : 11/19/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15458191 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You're forgetting Jackson :)


Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
_________  
I am Ninja : 11/19/2021 11:35 am : link
Same shit every year. OL, OL, OL. Its a tired excuse at this point. And thats just what it is. Fix it, figure out how to make it work, or fucking leave.
 
christian : 11/19/2021 11:36 am : link
That’s as big of an f—— you as you’ll see a coach give a GM.

The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.

Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.
In the list of people...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2021 11:54 am : link
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
4 years on the job  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/19/2021 11:54 am : link
and the only piece on the OL is the LT, who hasn't even put together a full 16 game season of being a good player yet.

There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.


As long as the OL  
JB_in_DC : 11/19/2021 11:58 am : link
is bottom 5, the Giants will stink.
RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
markky : 11/19/2021 11:59 am : link
In comment 15458184 JonC said:
Quote:
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.


To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
RE: RE: While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/19/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15458128 Section331 said:
Quote:

I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.


It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..

Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...

Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Giants slowly dunking Gettleman’s head under water  
GiantTuff1 : 11/19/2021 12:07 pm : link
I just hope this is not also to absolve Garrett of his mediocre offense. They both should be sent packing at the same time.

Hopefully just doing Garrett a solid on his way out.
They had some bad breaks on the OL  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/19/2021 12:10 pm : link
I imagine JG wants to be a HC again and you always have 6 opening every year. Perhaps he is just being honest but I think some owners will be turned off by this.

There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.

What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.

I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
RE: RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15458216 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 15458184 JonC said:


Quote:


the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.



To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.

This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games

He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
RE: Lots of teams have OL issues  
BMac : 11/19/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15458123 averagejoe said:
Quote:
The NY Giants never score TD's. Not ever. It is somebody's fault. And someone must pay. JG and Daniel "No TD" Jones are not getting it done.


Just a tad hyperbolic, and untrue to boot.
I remember when people were saying anything less than the playoffs  
japanhead : 11/19/2021 12:28 pm : link
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.

Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.

Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!

In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.

Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
RE: RE: JonC  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15458193 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15458191 Go Terps said:


Quote:


You're forgetting Jackson :)



Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.

It's tough to stop a QB who runs a 4.2/4.3 40, you can hope he has an owner that will ground his knee cartilage into sausage.
This is not a jackson thread  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/19/2021 12:42 pm : link
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.

There were 5 teams that  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 12:49 pm : link
passed on Josh Allen.

We'll never know the whole truth on who else "missed" on Allen.

....  
ryanmkeane : 11/19/2021 12:53 pm : link
Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.

And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/19/2021 12:54 pm : link
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15458266 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.


So can I say that Jones isn't a good quarterback past the month of September?
RE: I remember when people were saying anything less than the playoffs  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/19/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15458251 japanhead said:
Quote:
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.

Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.

Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!

In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.

Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.


I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.

He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.

RE: Dnew  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15458174 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.

I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.


I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.

But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.

At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.

I mean...  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:06 pm : link
from an historical perspective it might actually be the very last time EVER an NFL GM picks an RB in the top ten.

......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 11/19/2021 1:12 pm : link
DG is hitting on all cylinders

1) Missing on premium draft picks (Hernandez)

2) Missing on free agents (Solder, Omameh)

3) Letting Gmen players walk (Pugh - gambled he couldn't stay healthy. Flowers - finding success at new position (could be more on coaches))

4) Also the victim of some bad luck (Gates seemed like a find, injuries hitting the position hard)
RE: In the list of people...  
BillT : 11/19/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
Quote:
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

Gettleman and the OL are the same thing. We don’t have am OL because of Gettleman. After that you can blame who you want. It hardly matters.
RE: ....  
japanhead : 11/19/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15458265 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.

And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.


Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?

Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.

How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.

Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.
Dnew  
cosmicj : 11/19/2021 1:18 pm : link
The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.
RE: This is not a jackson thread  
Johnny5 : 11/19/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15458262 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.

His accuracy (or consistency of accuracy) has always been in question (and still is). He landed in the perfect spot for him, but let's not pretend he'd look like that here. He'd already have been on IR 5x over behind the OL we are trotting out there. At least that's my opinion.
The problem is DG tried the quick fix  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2021 1:24 pm : link
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).

He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.

After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.

I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.

Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.



RE: Dnew  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/19/2021 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15458295 cosmicj said:
Quote:
The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.


The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.

How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.
I agree with you...  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:31 pm : link
I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.

So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.

It didn't work - that's on him.
Changing your GM every few years is a bad idea  
Jimmy Googs : 11/19/2021 1:33 pm : link
but since Gettleman never acted like one anyway I think we’re okay doing it...
i don't think the Mara's  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:34 pm : link
would have fought the idea of DG going with Q. Nelson or Mike McGlinchey or a trade down or whatever....so long as it didn't involve giving up on Eli.

I DO think DG fell in love with Barkley and that pick was all him.
RE: i don't think the Mara's  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/19/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15458311 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
would have fought the idea of DG going with Q. Nelson or Mike McGlinchey or a trade down or whatever....so long as it didn't involve giving up on Eli.

I DO think DG fell in love with Barkley and that pick was all him.


That could certainly be the case but I gather there were others in the building drooling over him as well. It made sense. Eli retires in two years but has a "weapon" for those years and then the new rookie QB has his "Tiki Barber" breaking into the league. I am more upset with the WH pick.
Not a DG fan, but  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/19/2021 1:45 pm : link
suffers from having everything blamed on him in order to justify preconceived notions.

Is he responsible for Nick Gates injury - is he responsible for Shane Lemieux injury - is he responsible for Andrew Thomas lack of durability?

Is he responsible for a CBA which allows a player to de facto retire without any form of redress. It is quite obvious that Solder did that a few years ago and whether there were good reasons, or not, should not be the catastrophe to the employer it has turned out to be.

What he is responsible for is drafting a spread out offense RB and immediately following on with a 3 yards and a cloud of dust OG. To me that means he is largely a simpleton who believes that position labels are one size fits all.
RE: While I agree with all he said  
Ivan15 : 11/19/2021 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..


Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.
RE: This is not a jackson thread  
JonC : 11/19/2021 2:03 pm : link
In comment 15458262 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.


As an NFL QB, he's not a talented passer. All of his other skills far surpass his arm talent. He struggles to pass them effectively when the weather gets cold and they need chunk yards, and it's injured their playoff chances.

He's still a weapon, much better than I'd thought he'd be.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2021 2:08 pm : link
In comment 15458266 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.


If I was making a textbook with illustrations how to play QB, Jackson may be last on my list of current NFL starters.

But by every material QB statistical metric, he is a top ten QB in the NFL.

In my view, LJax is best described as a great football player who happens to play QB. And right now, I have no problem calling him the greatest dual QB in the history of the NFL.
RE: RE: Dnew  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15458300 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 15458295 cosmicj said:


Quote:


The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.



The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.

How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.

I would not have given Josh Allen or Dax Prescott a franchise QB contract.
RE: Let's Be Honest  
EricJ : 11/19/2021 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15458150 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers,...


it is simple... when he calls a play where the WRs have to run 15 yards when we only need 2 yards on 3rd down, making it more difficult for the OL to hold their blocks... then yeah I can blame Garrett. He is part of the problem.
RE: RE: ....  
NoGainDayne : 11/19/2021 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15458289 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15458265 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.

And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.



Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?

Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.

How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.

Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.


If you include rushing touchdowns Darnold has Jones 12-10

It really can't be said often enough the degree to which the bar has been lowered by this team
RE: Let's Be Honest  
nyblue56 : 11/19/2021 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15458150 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.


He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.
Lamar Jackson is better in cold weather than some of you think...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/19/2021 2:34 pm : link


Study: Lamar Jackson Is NFL's Best QB in Cold Weather
Baltimore excels in 40 degrees or less.


The Ravens play some of their best football when the weather gets cold.

That is also the case for quarterback Lamar Jackson, who yielded a cold-climate average of 2.4 passing touchdowns per game, according to a new study by the SportsBettingDime entitled Climate and Sports. SportsBettingDime.com thoroughly explored how weather impacts team success and player performance using game data from the NFL since 2010.

Here are some of the key findings include:

Jackson has the highest passer rating (109.3) in cold-climate games among all quarterbacks. Jackson and Aaron Rodgers are the top-performing quarterbacks in cold-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game (2.4 touchdowns)

Patrick Mahomes (3 touchdowns), Deshaun Watson (2.2 touchdowns), and Carson Wentz (2.2 touchdowns) are the top-performing quarterbacks in hot-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game.

Since 2018, Baltimore is 11-2 in the month of December, the best mark in the NFL. The Ravens have outscored their opponents 358 to 247 over that stretch, averaging 210.2 yards rushing per game.

“I think that’s when our team gets stronger," Baltimore running back Gus Edwards said. "We have a physical team, physical offense, physical defense. We have to use that to our advantage in the cold weather when guys are less likely to want to tackle, when their mentality is not there. We’re at a vital point in the season for us and we’ve got to keep on going."

The Ravens have also had success in warmer weather games. and have the second-ranked offense in hot-climate games, averaging 390 yards per game.


Todd Karpovich
Covering Ravens for Sports Illustrated

https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/ravens-weather062421

RE: 4 years on the job  
NoGainDayne : 11/19/2021 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15458210 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and the only piece on the OL is the LT, who hasn't even put together a full 16 game season of being a good player yet.

There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.



You forgot the part where it looks like maybe 2 OTs drafted 6 and 9 picks after him have not only looked better but one plays on arguably the best line in the league and the other has a SB win under his belt already.

Oh and that a trade down would have been highly beneficial to us given our talent was, is and likely will be garbage for the foreseeable future. But you know our GM like any sound analytical mind falls in "full bloom love" with players
RE: RE: Let's Be Honest  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15458371 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458150 Jeffrey said:


Quote:


Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.



He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.


But jet sweeps are the innovative play calling that young innovative coaches are calling and bbi'ers love!

A real bone headed play call. Engram is very fast for a TE, but you need someone with wiggle to get past the edge contain guy.
RE: RE: While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/19/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15458333 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..



Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.


Did you even read my post?
Garrett  
Archer : 11/19/2021 2:49 pm : link
While everyone knows that the OL is a problem
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones

There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.

There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans

Really Eli? 2021 mid point of season  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 3:06 pm : link
Mara got that right. Even now I would rather have ELi. Obvious fro Gettle NC days he is a vet jettisoner. NO surprise considering all the vets he jettisoned here. Eli was not going to be the exception but for Mara.

I so would rather have Eli here. I so would rather have traded down and have depth -- preferably online -- than have barkley here. I so would rather have Josh Allen on offense or defense here than Jones. let alone missing out on herbert because Jones is here.
RE: While I agree with all he said  
joeinpa : 11/19/2021 4:04 pm : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..


What did he say that s not true?
RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
joeinpa : 11/19/2021 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.


No more amazing than your absolute belief Jones is a flop given the number of NFL people who have a different view of him
You can be big & ugly in the interior positions ....  
Manny in CA : 11/19/2021 6:21 pm : link
But that doesn't work on the outside, especially on the left
side. Neither Pugh, Flowers or the hired gun (Solder) could handle it; and now Thomas is limping around on two bad feet.
RE: RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/19/2021 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15458169 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.


Then why have we sucked since 2012?

2012-2017:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 42-54 (.438 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 7-9

2018-2021:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 18-39 (.316 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 5-11 (or 5-12, adjusted for 17 games)

Even if you want to make the case that we sucked since 2012 (and the results have not been pretty), we've been worse since DG took over and the so-called rebuild hasn't rebuilt anything.
RE: …  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/19/2021 6:25 pm : link
In comment 15458197 christian said:
Quote:
That’s as big of an f—— you as you’ll see a coach give a GM.

The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.

Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.


They "set him up"?

Are you suggesting that they intentionally went into the season with a bad OL for the purpose of making Garrett look bad?

No. you couldn't be saying that because that would be fucking stupid.
RE: In the list of people...  
Grizz99 : 11/19/2021 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
Quote:
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.


What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
I think when Ernie left  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/19/2021 7:41 pm : link
Two things happened. After a couple years Reese with Ross saw things a little different and John Mara got much more involved with his brother.

John and his family members are very involved. Dave certainly has a strong voice but I don’t think it is as strong as some think. Since Mara hired Judge I think he gives him strong input.

I think Dave is gone but I also think he has had to navigate a difficult structure.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 11/19/2021 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15458512 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
They "set him up"?

Are you suggesting that they intentionally went into the season with a bad OL for the purpose of making Garrett look bad?

No. you couldn't be saying that because that would be fucking stupid.


Nope. It’s worse. Rabbit Foot Dave actually really liked the group he put together. He thought he did well.

But Garrett obviously feels set up to fail. He all but said the offensive line group are not pros.
Typical....  
Grizz99 : 11/19/2021 11:36 pm : link
Nope. It’s worse. Rabbit Foot Dave actually really liked the group he put together. He thought he did wel


What a totally unfair and nasty comment.
You have never seen "the group he put together play. Not close, but still you put down...
Again; Gates, Thomas with Matt Peart comprised, Sorenson, looney Harrison, and more.
Don't let facts interfere with a narrative about empowerment through denigration
So he (JG) just came out...  
Kev in Cali : 11/19/2021 11:46 pm : link
and told his current OL sucks. I'm sure the guilty party know who they are : )
RE: The problem is DG tried the quick fix  
giantstock : 11/20/2021 3:48 am : link
In comment 15458298 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).

He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.

After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.

I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.

Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.




This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.

In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.

How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.

And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
why does Terps or anyone else  
BigBlueCane : 11/20/2021 9:51 am : link
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.

RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
japanhead : 11/20/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.


judge is not stupid. he came in in jones's second year and knows jones would get year 2 and 3, and likely 4, to prove he's the guy. why would he publicly comment on him negatively, or even be vague and non-committal, which would lead to endless media speculation?

he has also done nothing but praise evan engram and i don't think anyone believes he'll be here after yet another disappointing season.
RE: RE: The problem is DG tried the quick fix  
FStubbs : 11/20/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15458652 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15458298 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).

He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.

After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.

I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.

Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.






This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.

In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.

How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.

And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.


Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)
I like JJ as HC  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/20/2021 10:57 am : link
maybe its simply a compensatory reaction to the shock of having Mcadoof and Shurmur as HCs, so barring some absurd mishaps I would like to keep him as coach next year, and by extension DG would likely have to stick around or retire on his own accord, or else we have the non-ideal situation of having a new GM with an old coach.
RE: RE: RE: The problem is DG tried the quick fix  
Angel Eyes : 11/20/2021 10:58 am : link
In comment 15458738 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15458652 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15458298 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).

He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.

After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.

I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.

Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.






This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.

In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.

How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.

And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.



Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)

In that case, why did we move Gates from center to guard?
RE: I agree with you...  
Vanzetti : 11/20/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15458304 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.

So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.

It didn't work - that's on him.


Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.

RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
Jimmy Googs : 11/20/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.


is this a rhetorical or do you really think that is the answer?
RE: RE: I agree with you...  
giantstock : 11/20/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15458756 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15458304 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.

So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.

It didn't work - that's on him.



Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.


Does it matter? You want a guy like that as a GM that he doesn't give a shit about winning?
RE: RE: In the list of people...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:


Quote:


responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.



What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.


Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?

And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
RE: RE: While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/20/2021 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15458435 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..



What did he say that s not true?


Nothing really.. but It reeks of someone intelligent trying to cover his own ass for not being able to do his job properly.. This is how a skilled person would pass the blame for teams under performance. Jason Garrett has a history of throwing other people under the bus and surviving despite his own shortcomings..
RE: RE: RE: In the list of people...  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/20/2021 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15458797 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:


Quote:


responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.



What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.



Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?

And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.

Runningback schmuningback, if you only learned from bbi, 2000 yd 15 TD rbs grow on trees, you can get someone 95% as productive from FA and community colleges, anyone who played fantasy football would know this.

Baltimore is kind of an outlier in that they are so Lamar-centric and his running. I can guarantee you if he got injured they won't be near the top in ppg. Also they are a much better run organization than the Giants, they actually seem to have a sense of team building and identity.
RE: RE: RE: In the list of people...  
giantstock : 11/20/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15458797 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:


Quote:


responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.



What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.



Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?

And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.


OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.

The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.

Should we go on?

The Ravens have better coaching.

Should we go on?

The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.

Should we go on?

RE: Garrett  
joe48 : 11/20/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15458390 Archer said:
Quote:
While everyone knows that the OL is a problem
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones

There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.

There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans
Who are these teams?
RE: RE: RE: RE: In the list of people...  
chuckydee9 : 11/20/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15458830 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15458797 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:


Quote:


responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.



What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.



Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?

And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.



OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.

The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.

Should we go on?

The Ravens have better coaching.

Should we go on?

The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.

Should we go on?


Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..
Raven's two good TEs  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/20/2021 1:59 pm : link
are also important for a young QB, so called 'security blankets'. We have none!
RE: Raven's two good TEs  
Jimmy Googs : 11/20/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15458852 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
are also important for a young QB, so called 'security blankets'. We have none!


What are talking about?

Evan Engram is so valuable to the team they weren't going to deal him unless they got a 1st round pick back.

And Kyle Rudolph was such a valuable component that the Front Office was willing to go ahead with the signing despite uncovering his foot needed surgery this spring.

DG has ensured the team has plenty of TEs...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In the list of people...  
giantstock : 11/20/2021 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15458849 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458830 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15458797 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:


Quote:


responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.



What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.



Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?

And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.



OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.

The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.

Should we go on?

The Ravens have better coaching.

Should we go on?

The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.

Should we go on?




Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..


But injuries are a factor. And using Baltimore in teh manner he did, is like using every other team in the NFL that has a better record anyway. Batimores injuries and their record has no correlation to the Giants.

The Giants would've sucked injury or not.

HE specifically said injuries to Batlimore did not affect them in the manner it did the Giants implying it was an excuse by anyone that defends Jones vs what Baltimore is experiencing wiht injuries too.

That's not the same as you're suggesting. Comparing Baltimore- a much superior team vs the Giants in dealing with injuries has no valid correlation.
RE: Obviously..  
DisgruntledNYGfan : 11/20/2021 11:52 pm : link
In comment 15458139 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
the OL rebuild has not gone according to plan AND there's no doubt that JG is trying to call a game with one hand tied behind his back.

BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.

What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?

What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?

What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?





This.
RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
Maryland Blows : 11/21/2021 12:00 am : link
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.


Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much smarter he is than all other GMs here on this board.
RE: RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
Debaser : 11/21/2021 8:22 am : link
In comment 15459220 Maryland Blows said:
Quote:
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.




Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much sm

arter he is than all other GMs here on this board.



Right because this ends when ajones boosts be Lombardi over his head . That is a verbatim quote from a clown. Same with the others who when I joined here was saying a six win team is winning min ten games this year. Three down only running the table left to go to make ten.

Lombardi’s ?? Lombardi’s??? Can this team even win a game let alone they are not making the playoffs again.

As for jettison jones . Yea why not. Jones is normally a third round pick in a normal draft class. You really think they —-judge and Garrett— are playing this kind of football because they have all the confidence in the world w jones
RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.


You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.
Garrett is right  
5BowlsSoon : 11/21/2021 1:55 pm : link
George You g would have never approved DG’s plan to just add other team’s scraps to be our starting OL guys.

I hope next year we can draft two stud OL guys in round one and just end this never ending struggle.
RE: RE: why does Terps or anyone else  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/21/2021 2:45 pm : link
In comment 15459362 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15458715 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.




You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.

Why does anyone bother with Cane's POV on credibility when he spent the better part of a decade declaring Tiki "not a feature back" and has generally, since then, only offered any semblance of opinion on players that have played for or against Miami?

Limited scope, even more limited understanding, unlimited voice.
I don't think Terps thinks he's smarter than NFL GMs  
NoGainDayne : 11/21/2021 2:51 pm : link
I think he thinks that most anyone could do DGs job better than him and I'd tend to agree with that.

And I think a lot of people are insecure about him being right more than most on this board and certainly our front office so you all love to whine about him and make him.
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