Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
and you're right, It's a good try. But it doesn't deflect from the fact that you're as bad at your job as the GM is at his. Hopefully both of you are on your last 8 games with the Giants.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.
But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
when this season ends, Judge will still be here. But there needs to be a pound of flesh given. I think the Gettleman discussions are a waste of time to be honest. He's 70 & I believe his deal is up at end of the season. I think he retires at the end. The question is do they just give the job to Abrams and keep the status quo or find a new GM.
As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
1. He credits Garrett for putting in place the framework of the offensive line (roster) in Dallas. Out of the other side of his mouth, he absolves Garrett of that responsibility with NYG and places that responsibility the GM.
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.
You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
Same shit every year. OL, OL, OL. Its a tired excuse at this point. And thats just what it is. Fix it, figure out how to make it work, or fucking leave.
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..
Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...
Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Giants slowly dunking Gettleman’s head under water
I imagine JG wants to be a HC again and you always have 6 opening every year. Perhaps he is just being honest but I think some owners will be turned off by this.
There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.
What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.
I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
RE: RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games
He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.
He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.
But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.
At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.
Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?
Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.
How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.
Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.
The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.
His accuracy (or consistency of accuracy) has always been in question (and still is). He landed in the perfect spot for him, but let's not pretend he'd look like that here. He'd already have been on IR 5x over behind the OL we are trotting out there. At least that's my opinion.
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.
The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.
How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.
would have fought the idea of DG going with Q. Nelson or Mike McGlinchey or a trade down or whatever....so long as it didn't involve giving up on Eli.
I DO think DG fell in love with Barkley and that pick was all him.
That could certainly be the case but I gather there were others in the building drooling over him as well. It made sense. Eli retires in two years but has a "weapon" for those years and then the new rookie QB has his "Tiki Barber" breaking into the league. I am more upset with the WH pick.
suffers from having everything blamed on him in order to justify preconceived notions.
Is he responsible for Nick Gates injury - is he responsible for Shane Lemieux injury - is he responsible for Andrew Thomas lack of durability?
Is he responsible for a CBA which allows a player to de facto retire without any form of redress. It is quite obvious that Solder did that a few years ago and whether there were good reasons, or not, should not be the catastrophe to the employer it has turned out to be.
What he is responsible for is drafting a spread out offense RB and immediately following on with a 3 yards and a cloud of dust OG. To me that means he is largely a simpleton who believes that position labels are one size fits all.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.
As an NFL QB, he's not a talented passer. All of his other skills far surpass his arm talent. He struggles to pass them effectively when the weather gets cold and they need chunk yards, and it's injured their playoff chances.
He's still a weapon, much better than I'd thought he'd be.
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.
If I was making a textbook with illustrations how to play QB, Jackson may be last on my list of current NFL starters.
But by every material QB statistical metric, he is a top ten QB in the NFL.
In my view, LJax is best described as a great football player who happens to play QB. And right now, I have no problem calling him the greatest dual QB in the history of the NFL.
The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.
The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.
How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.
I would not have given Josh Allen or Dax Prescott a franchise QB contract.
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers,...
it is simple... when he calls a play where the WRs have to run 15 yards when we only need 2 yards on 3rd down, making it more difficult for the OL to hold their blocks... then yeah I can blame Garrett. He is part of the problem.
Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?
Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.
How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.
Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.
If you include rushing touchdowns Darnold has Jones 12-10
It really can't be said often enough the degree to which the bar has been lowered by this team
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.
Lamar Jackson is better in cold weather than some of you think...
Study: Lamar Jackson Is NFL's Best QB in Cold Weather
Baltimore excels in 40 degrees or less.
The Ravens play some of their best football when the weather gets cold.
That is also the case for quarterback Lamar Jackson, who yielded a cold-climate average of 2.4 passing touchdowns per game, according to a new study by the SportsBettingDime entitled Climate and Sports. SportsBettingDime.com thoroughly explored how weather impacts team success and player performance using game data from the NFL since 2010.
Here are some of the key findings include:
Jackson has the highest passer rating (109.3) in cold-climate games among all quarterbacks. Jackson and Aaron Rodgers are the top-performing quarterbacks in cold-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game (2.4 touchdowns)
Patrick Mahomes (3 touchdowns), Deshaun Watson (2.2 touchdowns), and Carson Wentz (2.2 touchdowns) are the top-performing quarterbacks in hot-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game.
Since 2018, Baltimore is 11-2 in the month of December, the best mark in the NFL. The Ravens have outscored their opponents 358 to 247 over that stretch, averaging 210.2 yards rushing per game.
“I think that’s when our team gets stronger," Baltimore running back Gus Edwards said. "We have a physical team, physical offense, physical defense. We have to use that to our advantage in the cold weather when guys are less likely to want to tackle, when their mentality is not there. We’re at a vital point in the season for us and we’ve got to keep on going."
The Ravens have also had success in warmer weather games. and have the second-ranked offense in hot-climate games, averaging 390 yards per game.
Todd Karpovich
Covering Ravens for Sports Illustrated
and the only piece on the OL is the LT, who hasn't even put together a full 16 game season of being a good player yet.
There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.
You forgot the part where it looks like maybe 2 OTs drafted 6 and 9 picks after him have not only looked better but one plays on arguably the best line in the league and the other has a SB win under his belt already.
Oh and that a trade down would have been highly beneficial to us given our talent was, is and likely will be garbage for the foreseeable future. But you know our GM like any sound analytical mind falls in "full bloom love" with players
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.
But jet sweeps are the innovative play calling that young innovative coaches are calling and bbi'ers love!
A real bone headed play call. Engram is very fast for a TE, but you need someone with wiggle to get past the edge contain guy.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.
While everyone knows that the OL is a problem
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones
There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.
There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans
Mara got that right. Even now I would rather have ELi. Obvious fro Gettle NC days he is a vet jettisoner. NO surprise considering all the vets he jettisoned here. Eli was not going to be the exception but for Mara.
I so would rather have Eli here. I so would rather have traded down and have depth -- preferably online -- than have barkley here. I so would rather have Josh Allen on offense or defense here than Jones. let alone missing out on herbert because Jones is here.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
No more amazing than your absolute belief Jones is a flop given the number of NFL people who have a different view of him
You can be big & ugly in the interior positions ....
But that doesn't work on the outside, especially on the left
side. Neither Pugh, Flowers or the hired gun (Solder) could handle it; and now Thomas is limping around on two bad feet.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
2012-2017:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 42-54 (.438 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 7-9
2018-2021:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 18-39 (.316 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 5-11 (or 5-12, adjusted for 17 games)
Even if you want to make the case that we sucked since 2012 (and the results have not been pretty), we've been worse since DG took over and the so-called rebuild hasn't rebuilt anything.
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Two things happened. After a couple years Reese with Ross saw things a little different and John Mara got much more involved with his brother.
John and his family members are very involved. Dave certainly has a strong voice but I don’t think it is as strong as some think. Since Mara hired Judge I think he gives him strong input.
I think Dave is gone but I also think he has had to navigate a difficult structure.
Nope. It’s worse. Rabbit Foot Dave actually really liked the group he put together. He thought he did wel
What a totally unfair and nasty comment.
You have never seen "the group he put together play. Not close, but still you put down...
Again; Gates, Thomas with Matt Peart comprised, Sorenson, looney Harrison, and more.
Don't let facts interfere with a narrative about empowerment through denigration
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
judge is not stupid. he came in in jones's second year and knows jones would get year 2 and 3, and likely 4, to prove he's the guy. why would he publicly comment on him negatively, or even be vague and non-committal, which would lead to endless media speculation?
he has also done nothing but praise evan engram and i don't think anyone believes he'll be here after yet another disappointing season.
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)
maybe its simply a compensatory reaction to the shock of having Mcadoof and Shurmur as HCs, so barring some absurd mishaps I would like to keep him as coach next year, and by extension DG would likely have to stick around or retire on his own accord, or else we have the non-ideal situation of having a new GM with an old coach.
He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)
In that case, why did we move Gates from center to guard?
I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.
So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.
It didn't work - that's on him.
Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
is this a rhetorical or do you really think that is the answer?
I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.
So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.
It didn't work - that's on him.
Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.
Does it matter? You want a guy like that as a GM that he doesn't give a shit about winning?
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
What did he say that s not true?
Nothing really.. but It reeks of someone intelligent trying to cover his own ass for not being able to do his job properly.. This is how a skilled person would pass the blame for teams under performance. Jason Garrett has a history of throwing other people under the bus and surviving despite his own shortcomings..
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
Runningback schmuningback, if you only learned from bbi, 2000 yd 15 TD rbs grow on trees, you can get someone 95% as productive from FA and community colleges, anyone who played fantasy football would know this.
Baltimore is kind of an outlier in that they are so Lamar-centric and his running. I can guarantee you if he got injured they won't be near the top in ppg. Also they are a much better run organization than the Giants, they actually seem to have a sense of team building and identity.
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
While everyone knows that the OL is a problem
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones
There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.
There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
Should we go on?
Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..
are also important for a young QB, so called 'security blankets'. We have none!
What are talking about?
Evan Engram is so valuable to the team they weren't going to deal him unless they got a 1st round pick back.
And Kyle Rudolph was such a valuable component that the Front Office was willing to go ahead with the signing despite uncovering his foot needed surgery this spring.
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
Should we go on?
Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..
But injuries are a factor. And using Baltimore in teh manner he did, is like using every other team in the NFL that has a better record anyway. Batimores injuries and their record has no correlation to the Giants.
The Giants would've sucked injury or not.
HE specifically said injuries to Batlimore did not affect them in the manner it did the Giants implying it was an excuse by anyone that defends Jones vs what Baltimore is experiencing wiht injuries too.
That's not the same as you're suggesting. Comparing Baltimore- a much superior team vs the Giants in dealing with injuries has no valid correlation.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much smarter he is than all other GMs here on this board.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much sm
arter he is than all other GMs here on this board.
Right because this ends when ajones boosts be Lombardi over his head . That is a verbatim quote from a clown. Same with the others who when I joined here was saying a six win team is winning min ten games this year. Three down only running the table left to go to make ten.
Lombardi’s ?? Lombardi’s??? Can this team even win a game let alone they are not making the playoffs again.
As for jettison jones . Yea why not. Jones is normally a third round pick in a normal draft class. You really think they —-judge and Garrett— are playing this kind of football because they have all the confidence in the world w jones
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.
automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.
Why does anyone bother with Cane's POV on credibility when he spent the better part of a decade declaring Tiki "not a feature back" and has generally, since then, only offered any semblance of opinion on players that have played for or against Miami?
Limited scope, even more limited understanding, unlimited voice.
I don't think Terps thinks he's smarter than NFL GMs
I think he thinks that most anyone could do DGs job better than him and I'd tend to agree with that.
And I think a lot of people are insecure about him being right more than most on this board and certainly our front office so you all love to whine about him and make him.
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.
But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.
What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?
What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?
What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Well, he sure ain't lyin... lol
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Really?
You think it was Daniel Jones and NOT Barkley?
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.
You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
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In comment 15458101 Sean said:
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
The OL rebuild had no plan. One OL drafted in 2019. zero drafted on 2019 and 2021, three in 2020 What the heck kind of "plan" is that. Absurd.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.
Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..
Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...
Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Hopefully just doing Garrett a solid on his way out.
There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.
What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.
I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
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the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games
He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
Just a tad hyperbolic, and untrue to boot.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
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You're forgetting Jackson :)
Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
It's tough to stop a QB who runs a 4.2/4.3 40, you can hope he has an owner that will ground his knee cartilage into sausage.
We'll never know the whole truth on who else "missed" on Allen.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
So can I say that Jones isn't a good quarterback past the month of September?
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.
He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.
But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.
At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.
1) Missing on premium draft picks (Hernandez)
2) Missing on free agents (Solder, Omameh)
3) Letting Gmen players walk (Pugh - gambled he couldn't stay healthy. Flowers - finding success at new position (could be more on coaches))
4) Also the victim of some bad luck (Gates seemed like a find, injuries hitting the position hard)
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
Gettleman and the OL are the same thing. We don’t have am OL because of Gettleman. After that you can blame who you want. It hardly matters.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?
Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.
How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.
Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.
His accuracy (or consistency of accuracy) has always been in question (and still is). He landed in the perfect spot for him, but let's not pretend he'd look like that here. He'd already have been on IR 5x over behind the OL we are trotting out there. At least that's my opinion.
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.
How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.
So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.
It didn't work - that's on him.
I DO think DG fell in love with Barkley and that pick was all him.
I DO think DG fell in love with Barkley and that pick was all him.
That could certainly be the case but I gather there were others in the building drooling over him as well. It made sense. Eli retires in two years but has a "weapon" for those years and then the new rookie QB has his "Tiki Barber" breaking into the league. I am more upset with the WH pick.
Is he responsible for Nick Gates injury - is he responsible for Shane Lemieux injury - is he responsible for Andrew Thomas lack of durability?
Is he responsible for a CBA which allows a player to de facto retire without any form of redress. It is quite obvious that Solder did that a few years ago and whether there were good reasons, or not, should not be the catastrophe to the employer it has turned out to be.
What he is responsible for is drafting a spread out offense RB and immediately following on with a 3 yards and a cloud of dust OG. To me that means he is largely a simpleton who believes that position labels are one size fits all.
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.
As an NFL QB, he's not a talented passer. All of his other skills far surpass his arm talent. He struggles to pass them effectively when the weather gets cold and they need chunk yards, and it's injured their playoff chances.
He's still a weapon, much better than I'd thought he'd be.
If I was making a textbook with illustrations how to play QB, Jackson may be last on my list of current NFL starters.
But by every material QB statistical metric, he is a top ten QB in the NFL.
In my view, LJax is best described as a great football player who happens to play QB. And right now, I have no problem calling him the greatest dual QB in the history of the NFL.
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The positional value thing is important but Gettleman rated Barkley as the best player to come out of college since Peyton. And it appears that Barkley isn’t a good player. Maybe he’s average. A colossal drafting and scouting mistake.
The issue with most things for me is I do not think DG makes all the calls. Mara always says consensus. I think what is important is Mara looks at that philosophy objectively as not working very well. Mara knows exactly who wanted what.
How does anyone know that people wanted Josh Allen for example and John said we are not drafting a QB period.
I would not have given Josh Allen or Dax Prescott a franchise QB contract.
it is simple... when he calls a play where the WRs have to run 15 yards when we only need 2 yards on 3rd down, making it more difficult for the OL to hold their blocks... then yeah I can blame Garrett. He is part of the problem.
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Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
Do you do anything here other than troll Terps and mindlessly prop up Jones?
Out of all the starting quarterbacks in the league in 2021, there is only ONE who has fewer passing TDs than Jones: Sam Darnold-- who was recently benched and will likely never play for his current team again. Last season the only QB who had fewer TDs than Jones was Cam fucking Newton.
How one can look at Jones's body of work under this coaching staff and definitively conclude that he is the answer going forward is mind-boggling.
Jones has literally been one of the least productive QBs in the league since he was drafted and his one supposedly "good" year was under a coach who was promptly fired after that supposedly good year.
If you include rushing touchdowns Darnold has Jones 12-10
It really can't be said often enough the degree to which the bar has been lowered by this team
He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.
Study: Lamar Jackson Is NFL's Best QB in Cold Weather
Baltimore excels in 40 degrees or less.
The Ravens play some of their best football when the weather gets cold.
That is also the case for quarterback Lamar Jackson, who yielded a cold-climate average of 2.4 passing touchdowns per game, according to a new study by the SportsBettingDime entitled Climate and Sports. SportsBettingDime.com thoroughly explored how weather impacts team success and player performance using game data from the NFL since 2010.
Here are some of the key findings include:
Jackson has the highest passer rating (109.3) in cold-climate games among all quarterbacks. Jackson and Aaron Rodgers are the top-performing quarterbacks in cold-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game (2.4 touchdowns)
Patrick Mahomes (3 touchdowns), Deshaun Watson (2.2 touchdowns), and Carson Wentz (2.2 touchdowns) are the top-performing quarterbacks in hot-climate games for average passing touchdowns per game.
Since 2018, Baltimore is 11-2 in the month of December, the best mark in the NFL. The Ravens have outscored their opponents 358 to 247 over that stretch, averaging 210.2 yards rushing per game.
“I think that’s when our team gets stronger," Baltimore running back Gus Edwards said. "We have a physical team, physical offense, physical defense. We have to use that to our advantage in the cold weather when guys are less likely to want to tackle, when their mentality is not there. We’re at a vital point in the season for us and we’ve got to keep on going."
The Ravens have also had success in warmer weather games. and have the second-ranked offense in hot-climate games, averaging 390 yards per game.
Todd Karpovich
Covering Ravens for Sports Illustrated
https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/ravens-weather062421
There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.
You forgot the part where it looks like maybe 2 OTs drafted 6 and 9 picks after him have not only looked better but one plays on arguably the best line in the league and the other has a SB win under his belt already.
Oh and that a trade down would have been highly beneficial to us given our talent was, is and likely will be garbage for the foreseeable future. But you know our GM like any sound analytical mind falls in "full bloom love" with players
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Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
He can be evaluated because he and Joe Judge said don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what they can do. If your system can't work because these guys can't perform it. Then change the syst re m to allow them to what they can do. It's not like they haven't been successful moments and plays but they get followed by dumb calls like a jet sweep with engram at the goal line.
But jet sweeps are the innovative play calling that young innovative coaches are calling and bbi'ers love!
A real bone headed play call. Engram is very fast for a TE, but you need someone with wiggle to get past the edge contain guy.
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Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Are you really trying to blame Garrett for the O-line? Garrett has been here 2 seasons, he didn’t have any significant input into picking or signing players, and he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be an o-line coach. And he didn’t run off any players by making them run laps. He can only coach the players he is given. You can blame him for a lackluster offense, but the offense performs well when the players are available instead of in the trainer’s room.
Did you even read my post?
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones
There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.
There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans
I so would rather have Eli here. I so would rather have traded down and have depth -- preferably online -- than have barkley here. I so would rather have Josh Allen on offense or defense here than Jones. let alone missing out on herbert because Jones is here.
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
What did he say that s not true?
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
No more amazing than your absolute belief Jones is a flop given the number of NFL people who have a different view of him
side. Neither Pugh, Flowers or the hired gun (Solder) could handle it; and now Thomas is limping around on two bad feet.
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In comment 15458101 Sean said:
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
2012-2017:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 42-54 (.438 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 7-9
2018-2021:
* Aggregate Regular Season Record: 18-39 (.316 winning pct)
* Average Regular Season Record: 5-11 (or 5-12, adjusted for 17 games)
Even if you want to make the case that we sucked since 2012 (and the results have not been pretty), we've been worse since DG took over and the so-called rebuild hasn't rebuilt anything.
The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.
Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.
They "set him up"?
Are you suggesting that they intentionally went into the season with a bad OL for the purpose of making Garrett look bad?
No. you couldn't be saying that because that would be fucking stupid.
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
John and his family members are very involved. Dave certainly has a strong voice but I don’t think it is as strong as some think. Since Mara hired Judge I think he gives him strong input.
I think Dave is gone but I also think he has had to navigate a difficult structure.
Are you suggesting that they intentionally went into the season with a bad OL for the purpose of making Garrett look bad?
No. you couldn't be saying that because that would be fucking stupid.
Nope. It’s worse. Rabbit Foot Dave actually really liked the group he put together. He thought he did well.
But Garrett obviously feels set up to fail. He all but said the offensive line group are not pros.
What a totally unfair and nasty comment.
You have never seen "the group he put together play. Not close, but still you put down...
Again; Gates, Thomas with Matt Peart comprised, Sorenson, looney Harrison, and more.
Don't let facts interfere with a narrative about empowerment through denigration
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
judge is not stupid. he came in in jones's second year and knows jones would get year 2 and 3, and likely 4, to prove he's the guy. why would he publicly comment on him negatively, or even be vague and non-committal, which would lead to endless media speculation?
he has also done nothing but praise evan engram and i don't think anyone believes he'll be here after yet another disappointing season.
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He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)
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In comment 15458298 Vanzetti said:
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He was hired because he told Mara that Eli was not done and just needed an OL. Having painted himself into a corner, he went out and overspent on free agents, who proved not to be good (most notably Solder).
He also hired a HC who was a former OL, as if he were passing off responsibility for the OL to Shurmur.
After the failure of Shurmur regime, I think he has finally gone about fixing the OL the right way. Drafting Thomas, Peart and Lemieux put the Giants on the path to having a good OL until they were derailed by injuries.
I think much of the criticism of DG is justified but I also think changing your GM every few years is a bad idea. A GM should get a minimum of five years unless the team just falls apart, which the Giants have not so far.
Also, DG's best draft was last year. He stockpiled picks and I would let him use them and see what happens. If Giants don't finish at least .500 next season, then you fire him.
This issue isn’t that injuries derailed the OLINE. The better comment would be that they have never been on the rails to begin with, and that’s the problem with DG. And there shouldn’t be a formula when to can a GM.
In regards to OL in 2018 Solder and Omameh were blunders and Hernandez was a lousy pick. And as for the 2020 draft, the only conceivable player you could possibly count on after season was over was Thomas. Yu shouldn’t get kudos for drafting players. You get kudos for performance and the Giants OL was near the bottom.
How he can possibly not address it one bit while losing his bets OLienman in 2020 should not be giving DG a pass. First off, he couldn’t recognize Solder sucks. Then to compound that Peart still way unproven, but now he is forced to play LT, a position he never had to play before in part because DG failed to adequately address the OT’s.
And while Gates injury was a blow, not having Zeitler while having to depend on Hernandez and the 2201 2nd year players while loading up on cap and trying to win shows some clear idiocy. Rewarding idiocy is not what good teams do.
Re the Gates injury. Perhaps if we had functional play at guard, the team wouldn't have made the absolutely stupid decision to move Gates to guard where he got hurt. (The few plays before he got hurt it was clear he was physically overwhelmed there.)
In that case, why did we move Gates from center to guard?
So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.
It didn't work - that's on him.
Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.
is this a rhetorical or do you really think that is the answer?
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I think the Mara's handed the job to DG b/c he thought Eli wasn't toast - which is exactly what ownership wanted to hear.
So I think DG was forced to go in a direction that the NYG had a prayer to win games w/ Eli and DG went the RB route.
It didn't work - that's on him.
Did DG really believe Eli was still capable of being a top QB? Or did he just tell Mara that because he wanted the job? Given that he spent the number six pick on Jones in only his second draft with Giants, I lean towards believing DG was blowing smoke up Mara's ass.
Does it matter? You want a guy like that as a GM that he doesn't give a shit about winning?
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responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
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Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
What did he say that s not true?
Nothing really.. but It reeks of someone intelligent trying to cover his own ass for not being able to do his job properly.. This is how a skilled person would pass the blame for teams under performance. Jason Garrett has a history of throwing other people under the bus and surviving despite his own shortcomings..
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In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
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responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
Runningback schmuningback, if you only learned from bbi, 2000 yd 15 TD rbs grow on trees, you can get someone 95% as productive from FA and community colleges, anyone who played fantasy football would know this.
Baltimore is kind of an outlier in that they are so Lamar-centric and his running. I can guarantee you if he got injured they won't be near the top in ppg. Also they are a much better run organization than the Giants, they actually seem to have a sense of team building and identity.
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In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
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responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
Should we go on?
I find it curious that Garrett is sugesting that his conservative play calling is an attempt to protect Jones
There are ways to protect a QB other than conservative play calling
That is a deflection and a straw argument.
There are many teams with poor offensive lines yet they are able to move the ball with creative game plans
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In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:
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In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
Quote:
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
Should we go on?
Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..
What are talking about?
Evan Engram is so valuable to the team they weren't going to deal him unless they got a 1st round pick back.
And Kyle Rudolph was such a valuable component that the Front Office was willing to go ahead with the signing despite uncovering his foot needed surgery this spring.
DG has ensured the team has plenty of TEs...
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In comment 15458797 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15458521 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
Quote:
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
What a bias spin, based as always on claiming Fact as opinion.
Anyone who doesn't have "injuries on that list is a yowling nihilist, so controlled by a personal agenda ... up is down as the agenda commands.
Scot L , Thomas, Gates, Looney, Harrison, Bredson, and Peart compromised.
According to this poster had nothing to do with it.
Let me ask you a question - how are the Ravens, with all of their massive injuries on offense (all three starting RBs, all pro LT, excellent TE (Boyle)), still close to the top ten in the NFL in PPG?
And let's not act like they have a legit #1 WR on the team, either.
OFC Jackson is better than Jones. SO if a QB isn't as good as Jackson, the 2019 MVP, he sucks? But your comments are very misleading anyway - as usual.
The Ny Giants have the 31st OL rating yet again for 2 straight years while Baltimore ths year has the 13th according to PFF.
Should we go on?
The Ravens have better coaching.
Should we go on?
The Ravens Tight End Mark Andrews much better than any of the Giants Tight Ends.
Should we go on?
Thats exactly what he is pointing to.. Jones isn't as good as Jackson. We have a worse GM, worse coach. its not just injuries.. infact the difference between us and Ravens is exactly as he listed.. GM, QB, Coach, the OL..
But injuries are a factor. And using Baltimore in teh manner he did, is like using every other team in the NFL that has a better record anyway. Batimores injuries and their record has no correlation to the Giants.
The Giants would've sucked injury or not.
HE specifically said injuries to Batlimore did not affect them in the manner it did the Giants implying it was an excuse by anyone that defends Jones vs what Baltimore is experiencing wiht injuries too.
That's not the same as you're suggesting. Comparing Baltimore- a much superior team vs the Giants in dealing with injuries has no valid correlation.
BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.
What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?
What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?
What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?
This.
Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much smarter he is than all other GMs here on this board.
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automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
Because TWerps thinks he is smarter than any NFL GM. I am sure he will interviewing for a job next year, after showing just how much sm
arter he is than all other GMs here on this board.
Right because this ends when ajones boosts be Lombardi over his head . That is a verbatim quote from a clown. Same with the others who when I joined here was saying a six win team is winning min ten games this year. Three down only running the table left to go to make ten.
Lombardi’s ?? Lombardi’s??? Can this team even win a game let alone they are not making the playoffs again.
As for jettison jones . Yea why not. Jones is normally a third round pick in a normal draft class. You really think they —-judge and Garrett— are playing this kind of football because they have all the confidence in the world w jones
You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.
I hope next year we can draft two stud OL guys in round one and just end this never ending struggle.
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automatically think Judge thinks less of or doesn't want Jones as his QB when he's done nothing but praise him and say over and over again that he's the guy.
You think if Judge felt he WASN'T the guy that he would say so out loud? It's pretty standard to publicly support the QB you have no matter what. There's nothing to be gained by being brutally honest.
Why does anyone bother with Cane's POV on credibility when he spent the better part of a decade declaring Tiki "not a feature back" and has generally, since then, only offered any semblance of opinion on players that have played for or against Miami?
Limited scope, even more limited understanding, unlimited voice.
And I think a lot of people are insecure about him being right more than most on this board and certainly our front office so you all love to whine about him and make him.