Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
and you're right, It's a good try. But it doesn't deflect from the fact that you're as bad at your job as the GM is at his. Hopefully both of you are on your last 8 games with the Giants.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.
But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
when this season ends, Judge will still be here. But there needs to be a pound of flesh given. I think the Gettleman discussions are a waste of time to be honest. He's 70 & I believe his deal is up at end of the season. I think he retires at the end. The question is do they just give the job to Abrams and keep the status quo or find a new GM.
As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
1. He credits Garrett for putting in place the framework of the offensive line (roster) in Dallas. Out of the other side of his mouth, he absolves Garrett of that responsibility with NYG and places that responsibility the GM.
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.
You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
Same shit every year. OL, OL, OL. Its a tired excuse at this point. And thats just what it is. Fix it, figure out how to make it work, or fucking leave.
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..
Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...
Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Giants slowly dunking Gettleman’s head under water
I imagine JG wants to be a HC again and you always have 6 opening every year. Perhaps he is just being honest but I think some owners will be turned off by this.
There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.
What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.
I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
RE: RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games
He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.
He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.
But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.
At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.
But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.
What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?
What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?
What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?
And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
Well, he sure ain't lyin... lol
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Quote:
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Really?
You think it was Daniel Jones and NOT Barkley?
Quote:
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.
No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.
This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.
Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.
You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:
Quote:
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The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.
What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
The OL rebuild had no plan. One OL drafted in 2019. zero drafted on 2019 and 2021, three in 2020 What the heck kind of "plan" is that. Absurd.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.
Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.
Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..
Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...
Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Hopefully just doing Garrett a solid on his way out.
There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.
What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.
I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
Quote:
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.
Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.
Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games
He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
Just a tad hyperbolic, and untrue to boot.
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
Quote:
You're forgetting Jackson :)
Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
It's tough to stop a QB who runs a 4.2/4.3 40, you can hope he has an owner that will ground his knee cartilage into sausage.
We'll never know the whole truth on who else "missed" on Allen.
And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
So can I say that Jones isn't a good quarterback past the month of September?
Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.
Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!
In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.
Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.
He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.
I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.
But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.
At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.
1) Missing on premium draft picks (Hernandez)
2) Missing on free agents (Solder, Omameh)
3) Letting Gmen players walk (Pugh - gambled he couldn't stay healthy. Flowers - finding success at new position (could be more on coaches))
4) Also the victim of some bad luck (Gates seemed like a find, injuries hitting the position hard)
1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge
Gettleman and the OL are the same thing. We don’t have am OL because of Gettleman. After that you can blame who you want. It hardly matters.