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Jason Garrett Admits To This Lingering Giants Crisis

gidiefor : Mod : 11/19/2021 10:05 am
Quote:
Jason Garrett said it: The Giants’ offensive line rebuild is not close to where it needs to be.

- more - by Paul Schwartz - ( New Window )
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Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Sean : 11/19/2021 10:07 am : link
.
While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/19/2021 10:12 am : link
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..
We see you Jason  
arniefez : 11/19/2021 10:15 am : link
and you're right, It's a good try. But it doesn't deflect from the fact that you're as bad at your job as the GM is at his. Hopefully both of you are on your last 8 games with the Giants.
Lots of teams have OL issues  
averagejoe : 11/19/2021 10:26 am : link
The NY Giants never score TD's. Not ever. It is somebody's fault. And someone must pay. JG and Daniel "No TD" Jones are not getting it done.
RE: While I agree with all he said  
Section331 : 11/19/2021 10:33 am : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..


Agree with most of this, but not that "most" of BBI hated KG. There was a very vocal group of KG haters, but I think most posters appreciated what he did.

But to you larger point, Garrett is not the OC I wanted Judge to hire. I get why they did it, to have an experienced HC on the sidelines to pair with a HC who had never done that before at any level, but Garrett's scheme always seemed dated to me. And despite the OL and RB talent he had in Dallas, he got away from the run too often. I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.
Princeton grad knows what's up  
Matt in SGS : 11/19/2021 10:33 am : link
when this season ends, Judge will still be here. But there needs to be a pound of flesh given. I think the Gettleman discussions are a waste of time to be honest. He's 70 & I believe his deal is up at end of the season. I think he retires at the end. The question is do they just give the job to Abrams and keep the status quo or find a new GM.

As for Garrett, he knows he's a goner. So he will be looking for a new job in 2022. So he's going to make it clear to prospective jobs next year that his play calling was hindered by the OL so that's why he was so conservative. And it will likely work and he will land a job somewhere.
Wait...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/19/2021 10:36 am : link
is something wrong with the NYG Offensive Line?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/19/2021 10:36 am : link
I still think Mara forced Garrett on JJ.
"Dated"? So sick of this! Ugh!  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 10:37 am : link
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!

The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.

No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.

This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.

Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.
Like everything else  
mako J : 11/19/2021 10:38 am : link
There’s truth and there’s spin. Each decides the ratio that tastes best.
Obviously..  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 10:40 am : link
the OL rebuild has not gone according to plan AND there's no doubt that JG is trying to call a game with one hand tied behind his back.

BUT more than anything - Garrett is a microcosm of how the overly conservative and archaic NYG organization is run.

What's new or creative about how Garrett calls a game?

What's new or creative about how Judge runs the program from a HC perspective?

What's new or creative about how DG scouts and evaluates players?



RE: While I agree with all he said  
Johnny5 : 11/19/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15458106 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Garrett is really good as passing the blame onto others.. Its great how he phrased this.. an expert like no others at passing blame onto others..

And I don't think he is nearly as bad an OC as BBI thinks.. He isn't a bottom 10 OC in my mind.. BBI just doesn't understand the limitations that real life presents to the OC.. Pretty much like how BBI always hated Gilbride..

Well, he sure ain't lyin... lol
Mara's forced experienced weasel Garrett on JJ  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 10:48 am : link
but could be worse like the complete disaster Jets, with a bunch of young wiz kid bbi and media darling coaches to teach Jones how to throw sidearm.
Two nits to pick with Schwartz  
FranknWeezer : 11/19/2021 10:54 am : link
1. He credits Garrett for putting in place the framework of the offensive line (roster) in Dallas. Out of the other side of his mouth, he absolves Garrett of that responsibility with NYG and places that responsibility the GM.
2. Proofread your stuff. “Compete,” not “complete.”
No shit  
jeff57 : 11/19/2021 10:54 am : link
For about a decade now. And has only gotten worse
Let's Be Honest  
Jeffrey : 11/19/2021 10:56 am : link
Garrett was not my choice either, and there is certainly some blame on him for his playcalling. That said, he is really no different than the discussion around D. Jones. How can you evaluate him when he has for the most part never had healthy receivers, has never had an OL that was even close to competent, and never had a healthy Barkley except a few games. So if Garrett goes based upon his results with the Giants then Jones should follow him out the door. Garrett developed some strong QBs at Dallas but always had the benefit of an outstanding OL.
RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:10 am : link
In comment 15458101 Sean said:
Quote:
.


The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.
RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.



Really?

You think it was Daniel Jones and NOT Barkley?
RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Johnny5 : 11/19/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.

Then why have we sucked since 2012?
Dnew  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:22 am : link
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.

I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.
RE:  
upnyg : 11/19/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15458136 Debaser said:
Quote:
Like who gives a shit. it is about execution execution execution and winning. Hello!

The Titans are going to the playoffs. Do they have any cool new schemes that help Tannehill? No. They are going to run it down your throat and it is up to you to stop it.

No one is scheming a 3rd round caliber QB into something sustainable. No one is scheming really bad drafting into a play off team. no one is scheming really bad trades into a winning team.

This roster sucks. I suppose yeah it would be nice to fool defenses once in a while with a some misdirection plays.

Meanwhile it is the offensive scheme or it teams just playing good that makes it look like something else.

I agree with your point about the Titans. Good line, bruiser RB, decent WRs and an OK Qb who can be mobile if needed.

You dont need Arizona's offense in the northeast to win. If we had the Titans Offense here we'd be in the playoffs with tis defense.
RE: RE: RE: Gettleman has been a massive failure  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15458169 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15458164 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15458101 Sean said:


Quote:


.



The worst Giant, for lack of a better term, in all our lifetimes. The damage he has wrought has been colossal.

What's amazing is that there are still people that, while acknowledging he has been a failure, think he was correct on his biggest decision - the quarterback. It makes no sense, and hopefully it doesn't make sense to Judge.


Then why have we sucked since 2012?


Because the owner makes decisions like a sentimental child.
RE: Obviously..  
BillT : 11/19/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15458139 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
the OL rebuild has not gone according to plan.

The OL rebuild had no plan. One OL drafted in 2019. zero drafted on 2019 and 2021, three in 2020 What the heck kind of "plan" is that. Absurd.
I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
JonC : 11/19/2021 11:26 am : link
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.
JonC  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 11:29 am : link
You're forgetting Jackson :)
Keep in mind that this is a Paul Schwartz story  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/19/2021 11:29 am : link
and that, not always, but often, he is presaging the sentiment of the FO
RE: JonC  
JonC : 11/19/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15458191 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You're forgetting Jackson :)


Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.
_________  
I am Ninja : 11/19/2021 11:35 am : link
Same shit every year. OL, OL, OL. Its a tired excuse at this point. And thats just what it is. Fix it, figure out how to make it work, or fucking leave.
 
christian : 11/19/2021 11:36 am : link
That’s as big of an f—— you as you’ll see a coach give a GM.

The Giants management decided to give it a go with Hernandez/Solder/Peart on the right side really hoping for a miracle.

Garrett isn’t stupid. They set him up.
In the list of people...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2021 11:54 am : link
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

No need to outline why that order is the way it is - most clear minded posters should be able to agree on this - but I accept that Garrett will be the ultimate fall guy for items 1,2 and 3.

Just like McAdoo and Reese were the falls guys for Mara's mishandling of Eli in GenoGate.
4 years on the job  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/19/2021 11:54 am : link
and the only piece on the OL is the LT, who hasn't even put together a full 16 game season of being a good player yet.

There isn't a single other long term piece we know about yet. Gates would have been another and who knows if he can play again.


As long as the OL  
JB_in_DC : 11/19/2021 11:58 am : link
is bottom 5, the Giants will stink.
RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
markky : 11/19/2021 11:59 am : link
In comment 15458184 JonC said:
Quote:
the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.


To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.
RE: RE: While I agree with all he said  
chuckydee9 : 11/19/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15458128 Section331 said:
Quote:

I mean he had DeMarco Murray as his feature back, and 2 years in a row finished dead last in rushing attempts and yards. That should not happen.


It must've been the seasons when Murray was injured.. I don't think this is true otherwise.. Garrett is more conservative as an OC but he understands this teams strength is the defense comparatively.. and he has a QB who loves to fumble more than once a game over a 36 game career.. OL that sucks.. TE who sucks.. WRs who are injured all the time and a QB who doesn't sense pressure, fumbles all the time and is relatively slow at processing the play..

Replacing the OC isn't going to fix our problem.. there are may be 5 OC who can fix our Offense.. with others you will have same kind of problems...

Anyhow my main point is Garrett has done this in the past couple of times.. he is very good at blaming others.. I hope we kick him out simply for that reason.. He did this to Wade..
Giants slowly dunking Gettleman’s head under water  
GiantTuff1 : 11/19/2021 12:07 pm : link
I just hope this is not also to absolve Garrett of his mediocre offense. They both should be sent packing at the same time.

Hopefully just doing Garrett a solid on his way out.
They had some bad breaks on the OL  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/19/2021 12:10 pm : link
I imagine JG wants to be a HC again and you always have 6 opening every year. Perhaps he is just being honest but I think some owners will be turned off by this.

There are a multitude of reasons for the OL issues and at it stems to poor scouting and not enough draft resources committed from round 3 and later.

What is find interesting is I can't see JG taking this job unless he had high expectations for Jones.

I actually see a scenario where this OL is going to be good next year without committing multiple high picks in the next draft.
RE: RE: I don't blame NYG for missing on a QB in 2018  
Debaser : 11/19/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15458216 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 15458184 JonC said:


Quote:


the only one really worth the pick was Josh Allen, and many teams missed it.

Doubling down and reactively reaching for Jones compounded the situation. They relied heavily on Shurmur's input and interest in Jones, this is clear to me. They were reacting to Eli's decline (too late) and passed over better football players. This is where patience needs to trigger, and you put in the place the better players as building blocks, and continue to work to identify the right QB.

Remember, picking a position doesn't automagically mean you've actually filled a need. See : Jones, Daniel and a host of other examples under DG.



To be fair, Shurmur was able to move the ball with Jones. Under JG, not so much. Maybe Shurmur was a much better OC than JG.

This again. Jones lost s shit ton of games / shutout lost a shit ton of games

He got fired from here. Shurmur is able to take QBs like Cade Keemun; make them one read morons who can play ok but not really win. What he did isn’t sustainable
RE: Lots of teams have OL issues  
BMac : 11/19/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15458123 averagejoe said:
Quote:
The NY Giants never score TD's. Not ever. It is somebody's fault. And someone must pay. JG and Daniel "No TD" Jones are not getting it done.


Just a tad hyperbolic, and untrue to boot.
I remember when people were saying anything less than the playoffs  
japanhead : 11/19/2021 12:28 pm : link
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.

Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.

Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!

In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.

Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.
RE: RE: JonC  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/19/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15458193 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15458191 Go Terps said:


Quote:


You're forgetting Jackson :)



Many, many teams missed on him. I had him as a 2nd round talent. He's not a talented passer, easy one to miss.

It's tough to stop a QB who runs a 4.2/4.3 40, you can hope he has an owner that will ground his knee cartilage into sausage.
This is not a jackson thread  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/19/2021 12:42 pm : link
But Jackson had far too many passing accolades in college and has done too well thru this point in his pro career to say he wasn't a talented passer. On that I disagree.

There were 5 teams that  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 12:49 pm : link
passed on Josh Allen.

We'll never know the whole truth on who else "missed" on Allen.

....  
ryanmkeane : 11/19/2021 12:53 pm : link
Terps, keep speaking the Jones sucks thing into existence and soon enough you might have enough followers onto your bandwagon.

And no, the Giants aren't drafting a quarterback in 2022.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/19/2021 12:54 pm : link
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 11/19/2021 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15458266 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Lamar Jackson can't throw the football past the month of November. Sorry but I'll wait to comment on his NFL career until he can prove otherwise.


So can I say that Jones isn't a good quarterback past the month of September?
RE: I remember when people were saying anything less than the playoffs  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/19/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15458251 japanhead said:
Quote:
this year would be a failed season, and if Jones can't lead the Giants to the playoffs with all the new additions/upgrades, it was time to move on.

Those same people are now quick to excuse Jones's pathetic stat line for the second year in a row, based on injuries to the OL and him supposedly not having time to make the throws.

Even though Jones played behind an even worse OL in 2019 where he threw 24 TDs in 12 games-- a season his fanbois hold up as evidence of his being the answer at quarterback!

In fact, Jones's running ability and supposed mobility/ability to play from a 'dirty pocket' was cited as a principal reason he would be an upgrade from Eli version 2018.

Yet here we are in year three and Jones has yet to win more than five games in a season.


I thought the make or break number would be 25 total TDs for Jones. That would mean that his processing, accuracy and pocket awareness improved, that the line was performing better, and that Garrett opened up the playbook for him.

He is on pace for less than 15 total TDs and over 11 total turnovers. So yeah, disappointing.

RE: Dnew  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15458174 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You can kind of loop them together, right? The time to draft the QB was definitely 2018.

I can't wait for this clown to be gone just so we can know for certain that decisions aren't being made with his influence. It's amazing to see someone in such an exclusive job be such a comprehensive failure. Mara would have done better using a chimp to make the GM decisions.


I think you loop them together to spell doom for DG.

But in my humble opinion (b/c apparently that's become a mandatory BBI disclaimer), Barkley was clearly the more bone-headed pick.

At least the reasoning behind drafting a QB at the top of the 1st round was sound from a positional importance perspective.

I mean...  
Dnew15 : 11/19/2021 1:06 pm : link
from an historical perspective it might actually be the very last time EVER an NFL GM picks an RB in the top ten.

......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 11/19/2021 1:12 pm : link
DG is hitting on all cylinders

1) Missing on premium draft picks (Hernandez)

2) Missing on free agents (Solder, Omameh)

3) Letting Gmen players walk (Pugh - gambled he couldn't stay healthy. Flowers - finding success at new position (could be more on coaches))

4) Also the victim of some bad luck (Gates seemed like a find, injuries hitting the position hard)
RE: In the list of people...  
BillT : 11/19/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15458209 bw in dc said:
Quote:
responsible for the mess of this offense, in order, it goes:

1. Gettleman
2. Jones
3. The OL
4. Garrett AND Judge

Gettleman and the OL are the same thing. We don’t have am OL because of Gettleman. After that you can blame who you want. It hardly matters.
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