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NFT: EPL: Eventful Saturday matches...and a decision looming

ColHowPepper : 11/20/2021 1:25 pm
ever more imminently, as ManU goes down limply to WAT, Ole applauds the away fans in a got-to-be knowing swan song. ManU Board calls for an emergency meeting, 2PM EST (yes, EST, acc to Arlo White's citing a report from Sunday Times).

- Pulisic scores in another clean sheet for CHE.

- Klopp and Arteta both carded for their 'furious' confrontation on the touch line over lack of a call for Mané's swipe to head of ARS mf. Mané, who has the only goal in 1H, been quite chippy all game. Half time there.

- AVL, in Stephen Gerrard's 1st game as Mgr (if I have that right) gets a win as 2 goals in the last 6 minutes of regulation give AVL a win over BHA after a string of losses.

Seems like clock has about struck 12 for Ole, and guessing many ManU fans will rejoice, 'what took the Club so long?'
LIV now up 4 - 0 on ARS  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2021 2:12 pm : link
3rd goal a truly spectacular triplet of plays, Jota on a header from about the center line (it had that much force and insane accuracy) finds Mané breaking past ROB about 20 yards down the pitch, Mané marked on the inside by CB breaks inside the 6 and crosses a perfectly weighted ball in the air to Salah who has nothing but net for his 11th goal. Ramsdale has been very good, but undone by an unforgiveable giveaway by Tavares (?) right to Jota who skitters across the PA outflanking all defenders and puts his into an empty net, that for 2 - 0.
Ole  
Gman11 : 11/20/2021 2:32 pm : link
was viewed as a savior after he replaced Jose. He would have them playing attacking soccer. He would have them playing creatively. Actually, they did do well right after his arrival, but I don't know what the problem is now. Didn't see the Watford game and pretty glad of that.
RE: Ole  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2021 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15458876 Gman11 said:
Quote:
was viewed as a savior after he replaced Jose. He would have them playing attacking soccer. He would have them playing creatively. Actually, they did do well right after his arrival, but I don't know what the problem is now. Didn't see the Watford game and pretty glad of that.
What was it, Gman, two weekends ago, LIV at Old Trafford where Salah had a hat trick in a one-sided win. SAF showed on telly squirming in what appeared discomfort and embarrassment, and that seemed to mark the beginning of the end, which maybe had begun long before.

I'm not a MU partisan like some here, guessing BHE and others, but their colors and loyalty run deep, and when it seems the players have given up on their manager, there's only one way the Board can go even if the players are not playing to their capabilities. Painful, often seen in these parts too.
What, no mention of Palace?  
CT Charlie : 11/20/2021 4:02 pm : link
7-game undefeated streak.
RE: What, no mention of Palace?  
Del Shofner : 11/20/2021 5:28 pm : link
In comment 15458917 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
7-game undefeated streak.


I saw Palace's 2-0 win at Man City - they're good. Fun to watch as well.
RE: What, no mention of Palace?  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2021 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15458917 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
7-game undefeated streak.
CT, Humbly beg your pardon: CP has been off the top of the table so long it's almost as if my eyes gloss over. But there's another reason Palace should stick, and that is a well regarded soccer trainer in our parts (trained my daughter's teams), Londoner, we went to a couple of Red Bull games together, said his favorite team was Palace: I looked at him a bit cross-eyed, of course this during a decade when Palace was routinely in danger of relegation, and asked, 'Why?' He just laughed and said it was the team he grew up with as a kid, never thought of abandoning ship.

And of the upstarts this year, WHU which I mentioned in a footie thread a week or two ago for its surprising ascent lost today to Wolverton, itself just behind Arsenal. Table not looking like its 'normal' self.
here's  
Del Shofner : 11/20/2021 5:33 pm : link
Pulisic's
goal - ( New Window )
The problem begins and ends with the Glazers & their boy Woodward  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/20/2021 5:37 pm : link
Ole should have never been given an extension, and really not even the full-time job once he replaced Mourinho. He did an admirable job restoring the morale around the club post-Mourinho, but it's clear after the end of last season that he's not good enough tactically.

But Ole is just a fall guy who loves the club. That's why he's still there and not Conte or Pochettino. The ownership has literally screwed up every aspect of the club since SAF left (and some would say even before that). Every decision is based on commercial value, not on a football strategy or philosophy.

I could go on and on, but nothing about the squad makes sense. They are essentially playing 4-2-4 every week because they don't have quality central midfielders while Mata, Jones, and Bailly are still on the squad. The Van De Beek saga is insane. Their transfer strategy is a joke.

No identity for the club other than trying to stay in the top 4 to make the Glazers money.
As mentioned earlier  
wigs in nyc : 11/20/2021 6:24 pm : link
Pulisic (and Ziyech) were electric upon their introduction for Chelsea, who played maybe their most complete game of the season against Leicester. After they arrived on the pitch there were three goals netted, though two ruled out through offsides, and had a few other chances as well. Chelsea’s defense really has them looking like they’ll be in the fight all season - and Tuchel is definitely the right man for the job.
Athletic reporting Ole is out  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/20/2021 6:38 pm : link
Fletcher/Carrick to guide the club in the interim. And of course, it was ridiculously STUPID not to fire him earlier and grab Conte, or even now fire him before the international break.

Don't forget Klopp knew this about the Glazers years ago, and chose not to replace Moyes.
Link - ( New Window )
For the kids in us  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2021 8:31 pm : link
who remain and will always be in us as real and pure as when we were those kids, the business side of sports smells and sucks, even as it has come to permeate and steer and mold the character of our teams as never before, inescapable in the big Dollar business that is sports entertainment. Yet we keep coming to the shrines and worshipping, there is no other choice. The Glazers, the Emirs, the Maras.

If I heard it right, one of the NBC Sports crew mused on Zidane; I'm not glued in to the British Press so that may just have been a throw away.

Del, thanks for the Pulisic clip.

Here is a too short clip of the Jota-Mané-Salah goal, which doesn't do the Jota header justice and too small in frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1coUqBRKFJE
.  
Del Shofner : 11/20/2021 8:46 pm : link
In comment 15459149 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Here is a too short clip of the Jota-Mané-Salah goal, which doesn't do the Jota header justice and too small in frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1coUqBRKFJE


Here's a longer version with replays that show the buildup. Nice indeed!

Link - ( New Window )
Ole had no tactics  
moespree : 11/20/2021 9:09 pm : link
Every game was just random running and free roaming all over the place. No midfield to speak of at all. He kept cycling in different name every week with the same problems. Pushed off the ball, zero positioning skills and lack of short pass vision.

He also wasted Pogba as a holding midfielder half the time which is pointless. Pogba should be in the attacking third sending balls into Ronaldo.

Meanwhile in Tottenham, Conte made them stay 3 hours extra this week to run shadow play passing over 150 times. What United could have had.
RE: Ole had no tactics  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/20/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15459168 moespree said:
Quote:
Every game was just random running and free roaming all over the place. No midfield to speak of at all. He kept cycling in different name every week with the same problems. Pushed off the ball, zero positioning skills and lack of short pass vision.

He also wasted Pogba as a holding midfielder half the time which is pointless. Pogba should be in the attacking third sending balls into Ronaldo.

Meanwhile in Tottenham, Conte made them stay 3 hours extra this week to run shadow play passing over 150 times. What United could have had.


Pogba was never a fit because they never had an all-action CDM like Kante or Arturo Vidal next to him. Instead he had garbage Fred or the corpse of Matic. They've had the same problem since Michael Carrick retired.

I'd be shocked if Zidane takes the job, when he can simply wait 13 months to take the France job after the Qatar World Cup. But stranger things have happened.

Overall thought the roster ROI is ludicrously bad - they are thin at both fullback (Ole wouldn't play Telles), the central defense is a mess - they spent 80M on Maguire when Manolas and Rudiger each cost more than half that at the time, no CDM and for some reason they bought VDB and never played him, they were already 6 deep up top in a 3-3-4 and still signed Ronaldo, Mind-boggling stuff.
RE: Jota-Mané-Salah  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15459155 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Here's a longer version with replays that show the buildup. Nice indeed! Link - ( New Window )
Much, much better, thanks. I was watching live and my jaw dropped not on the last two touches, which we've seen such beauty before on a counter with numbers up, and it was perfectly executed. But, from the half-way line, a header perfectly weighted to lead Mané breaking past the defender in the middle third. Even for him to anticipate Jota playing that ball as he did pitch perfect. Pretty rarified stuff, imo.
RE: Ole had no tactics  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 8:41 am : link
In comment 15459168 moespree said:
Quote:
He also wasted Pogba as a holding midfielder half the time which is pointless. Pogba should be in the attacking third sending balls into Ronaldo....
Exactly, I made similar comments a number of times during the Euros. Contrasted to the disinterested, unengaged Pogba one would see in EPL, he was flat out electric for France, easily its best player, imo. His through balls, long and precise, perfectly struck to Mbappé, Griezmann, or Benzema at or w/i the 18 opened split the defensive formations to create in the top third. He was central to its attack and played responsibly coming back. Anyone who watched him this summer saw his value and he blooms in this role. It's been argued that, well, he has Kanté as DMF in support, ok, then do the same, because Pogba's value in that role far exceeds anything done having him lay back.
RE: RE: Ole had no tactics  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 8:48 am : link
In comment 15459181 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 15459168 moespree said:...
Pogba was never a fit because they never had an all-action CDM like Kante or Arturo Vidal next to him. Instead he had garbage Fred or the corpse of Matic. They've had the same problem since Michael Carrick retired....

Overall thought the roster ROI is ludicrously bad - they are thin at both fullback (Ole wouldn't play Telles), the central defense is a mess - they spent 80M on Maguire when Manolas and Rudiger each cost more than half that at the time, no CDM and for some reason they bought VDB and never played him, they were already 6 deep up top in a 3-3-4 and still signed Ronaldo, Mind-boggling stuff.
Just so. Maguire has been dreadful this fall, a turnover lapse machine, as if he wanted to be elsewhere, on the English team, perhaps. His second caution yesterday appeared almost willful, certainly reckless.

I don't follow the team like you do BHE, but all you say has the ring of truth, similar to the condemnations that have rung around Reese and DG for the past decade. So frustrating to see the boneheaded signings and mis-use of players.
So he's officially out  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/21/2021 9:25 am : link
Carrick is the interim manager ... until they hire another interim manager.

CHP, very similar to the Giants with a lot of band-aids, unwilling to make tough decisions and no general direction -- they didn't have a Director of Football for years! I do think there is something to the English players being exhausted after the Euros, you can see it across the league.

They need an actual project, a coach with a vision, which they missed when Woodward didn't impress Klopp years ago. The whole midfield and defense needs rebuilding. Maybe Pochettino decides he wants to come back to England, maybe they hire Ten Hag, we'll see.
RE: RE: Jota-Mané-Salah  
Del Shofner : 11/21/2021 9:32 am : link
In comment 15459282 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
But, from the half-way line, a header perfectly weighted to lead Mané breaking past the defender in the middle third. Even for him to anticipate Jota playing that ball as he did pitch perfect. Pretty rarified stuff, imo.


Yeah, the header was amazing. More so because Jota seemed to supply all the power; it wasn't like ball was coming at him and he headed it away.
RE: Jota-Mané-Salah  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15459316 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Yeah, the header was amazing. More so because Jota seemed to supply all the power; it wasn't like ball was coming at him and he headed it away.
Exactly. I don't think I've ever seen its like.
ESPN with the ready-to-go hit job on Ole  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/21/2021 9:49 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: So he's officially out  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 10:02 am : link
In comment 15459311 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
I do think there is something to the English players being exhausted after the Euros, you can see it across the league....The whole midfield and defense needs rebuilding. Maybe Pochettino decides he wants to come back to England, maybe they hire Ten Hag, we'll see.
I've often wondered about this take on player fatigue. It's not as if they haven't had medium- to short-term breaks to re-charge, physically. These are, after all, young men supposedly at peaks of physical fitness, with trainers, diets, etc. Maybe I'm underestimating the mental side of this. I wonder if the fatigue relates so much to being worn down mentally as it may to coming back to EPL play: it becomes anti-climactic--pony up for the long grind of the season after a tournament with relatively short group and finalist stages, boom, it's over. You're emotionally spent.

For me, there is little that is so dispiriting as failed re-builds, especially when management doesn't recognize a full re-build is in order and fails to own up and take it head on. The Giants haven't even called these re-builds after multiple cycles of tinkering around the edges: 2011, 2015, seemingly each year 2017 - 2020, lol. As you say, without a sharp football (both types) mind and insightful vision, it's a treadmill to nowhere.
RE: As mentioned earlier  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2021 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15459045 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
Pulisic (and Ziyech) were electric upon their introduction for Chelsea, who played maybe their most complete game of the season against Leicester. After they arrived on the pitch there were three goals netted, though two ruled out through offsides, and had a few other chances as well. Chelsea’s defense really has them looking like they’ll be in the fight all season - and Tuchel is definitely the right man for the job.
wigs,wish I could have seen it, not shown in my streaming mish mash, hardly seen any Chelsea, maybe an NBCSN thing?
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