which is not exactly going out on a limb, but I think I would take him over Thibodeaux. If we could use some of our other draft capital to trade up for Neal and still get Hutchinson, I would be ecstatic.
I agree. Thibodeaux has skills, but he disappears too much for me. In fact, I would take Hutch or Ojabu over KT if I thought pass rusher was the way to go.
However, I'm not there yet with taking a pass rusher high in this draft.
which is not exactly going out on a limb, but I think I would take him over Thibodeaux. If we could use some of our other draft capital to trade up for Neal and still get Hutchinson, I would be ecstatic.
I agree. Thibodeaux has skills, but he disappears too much for me. In fact, I would take Hutch or Ojabu over KT if I thought pass rusher was the way to go.
However, I'm not there yet with taking a pass rusher high in this draft.
the Jets, Jags and Texans all have to play eachother at least once.
Jags vs Texans
Jags vs Jets
Texans vs Jets
So there are at least 3 wins left in those teams. Lets hope Bears keep losing and end up picking 2nd or 3rd...that would guarantee Evan Neal hopefully.
Next week the Jets play the Texans, so one should have three wins. The Jags play Atlanta, which is winnable, and Seattle plays WFT. So if the Giants fail to win tomorrow and both us and the Bears lose next week both our picks could be tied with The Jets or Texans, and the Jags for the third worst record.
The Giants would be nuts to pass on the ND S Hamilton. Guy has perennial All Pro written all over him, and teamed up wit( Xavier going forward they’d have the back end locked up solid.
I know we could use OL help but Hamilton is just too good imo to pass on.
The top blue chip players....especially if its edge and OL
you can definitely see that team quitting after losing that way to that team without Lamar. They play Detroit this week, which is a winnable game, they play us which is a winnable game probably and not much else. This could be a top 5 pick
Have games left against Bears, Texans and Jags so three more games that can improve our draft slots.
Gotta take it one game at a time. Root like hell for your team to win and take consolation in the picks when they don’t.
Also kind of fun to root for the Bears to collapse and Indy and Miami to win to hurt Philly’s positions.
As to who we pick, there will be plenty of movement up and down draft boards in the months to come, way too early to start digging heels in over one player or another.
I think he spends a lot of time standing around doing nothing, and he gets washed out easily. I think whomever drafts him is doing so based on flashes, not anything he does consistently. I don't see a difference make there at all.
Further, even if he's good I'm not sure edge rusher has the value in today's game that it did even ten years ago.
I think he spends a lot of time standing around doing nothing, and he gets washed out easily. I think whomever drafts him is doing so based on flashes, not anything he does consistently. I don't see a difference make there at all.
Further, even if he's good I'm not sure edge rusher has the value in today's game that it did even ten years ago.
Edge matters but this team needs OL in the worst way. If it's close between Edge and OL, you have to go OL.
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Ideally they can trade out of Days 1 and 2 completely and then they will own Day 3!
but the scouting is..?
or is done at this point no?
Do scouts go out with the DG bathwater if he is let go this early winter?
They'll be around until after the draft if any big changes happen.
Honestly, I never understand why people want to blow up the whole scouting staff. I can see the person running the show going, but area scouts and the like are turning in their reports and grading based on the system the GM and Scouting director put in place. I think it's an easier transition to leave most of that group in place and change their marching orders then let the new GM evaluate, and replace people as time goes on.
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Ideally they can trade out of Days 1 and 2 completely and then they will own Day 3!
I think the Bears are going to win a few with Dalton playing, and I'd expect Dalton to start at least the next 2 or 3 games. Plus they have the Lions this week. Ravens win was pretty big considering.
Travis Frederick drafted in first round by the Cowboys
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Ideally they can trade out of Days 1 and 2 completely and then they will own Day 3!
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
I consider myself a realist who errs on the side of optimism when things are going poorly and pragmatism when things are going well. There are currently three main question marks facing the Giants and they are the three biggies: GM, HC, QB. Let's break them down one at a time...
Gettleman is very different than any other GM we've had in the past both in terms of personality and philosophy. He is more aggressive than we're used to, with a swash-buckling style, the opposite of George Young when it comes to trading and spending, but similar in their love of big men with long arms. He has made moves that I questioned and several of them fell flat (Solder, Omameh, trade for Ogletree, and the jury is still out on Adoree Jackson, who I felt was a huge overpay at the time).
But let's focus on the six first round draft picks starting with Barkley. I have no argument with this pick. I get the argument that first round RBs are risky because of the injury rate, but that goes along with not downgrading safeties and guards in the first round. It doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they need to be special in order to merit the pick. And Barkley is special. He proved it as a rookie. Do the injuries cloud his future? Of course they do, but I still believe it was the right move at the time given their views on the QB prospects (Josh Rosen was the only one I liked with the 2nd overall pick; I thought Mayfield was a poor fit for NYC, Darnold was a fraud, and Allen was worthy of a first round pick, but not top five because his college completion percentage was a red flag). In 2019, Drew Lock was my QB of choice and I was disappointed with the selection of Daniel Jones (but more on that later). Dexter Lawrence hasn't shined, but hasn't busted either. And as for the Baker trade, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Was it an ill-advised gamble at the time? He was the top CB on their board (and the first to be drafted that year), so it was defensible even with character concerns (which is likely what caused him to be available so late in the first round). Sometimes these gambles on guys who drop due to character concerns pay off (Randy Moss), sometimes they don't (DeAndre Baker). In 2020, I loved the Andrew Thomas selection. It was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants selected the guy I wanted with the pick. And I had no arguments with the trade down in 2021 and the selection of Toney.
As for the OL fix that Gettleman promised, well it's taken longer than anyone would've liked and injuries have been a factor, but I like where it's currently headed. I'm not as confident as some on BBI when it comes to Peart, but on the flipside, I like Lemieux better than most. Had it not been for the season-ending injuries to Gates and Lemieux, the games that that Thomas and Bredeson lost to injury, and Zach Fulton's retirement, the results would be much different. And I applaud Gettleman's aggressive moves when Lemieux got hurt and Fulton retired.
Next up on the list is Judge. I haven't got much to say on this. The jury is still out, but I think he's done a surprisingly good job of putting together a coaching staff, given his youth and inexperience. I'm cautiously optimistic about his future.
On to the big question: Daniel Jones. Like with Judge, the jury is still out (no pun intended). There has been good, bad, and ugly, but what impresses me most about him is the success he's had on 3rd and long despite a shaky OL and the times he has marched the team down the field following a deflating score by the opposing team. And credit to him for bouncing back in the KC game after the opening INT. So I'm still quite hopeful that Daniel Jones can be the answer. He won't be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, but he can be as good as Phil Simms and Eli Manning, and has a floor of Tannehill, Carr, and Cousins. We can win a Super Bowl with him.
So given my thoughts on Gettleman, Judge, and Jones, I feel like the Giants should err on the side of patience and continuity in the off-season ahead. This is a very young team; injuries and covid have stunted their growth and prevented them from developing consistency. With better health (fingers crossed) and more experience, the consistency will come, and the wins will follow. All we need is... ...just a little patience - ( New Window )
The thing is, it's not a fact. Because even if you want to defend DJ, it's not like you can prove that he'd be a star with a better OL.
There's literally nothing on Jones' football resume going back to high school to suggest he's capable of stardom, and yet people cling to the belief that he's going to figure it out at the NFL level, just as soon as everything around him is absolutely perfect.
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
I consider myself a realist who errs on the side of optimism when things are going poorly and pragmatism when things are going well. There are currently three main question marks facing the Giants and they are the three biggies: GM, HC, QB. Let's break them down one at a time...
Gettleman is very different than any other GM we've had in the past both in terms of personality and philosophy. He is more aggressive than we're used to, with a swash-buckling style, the opposite of George Young when it comes to trading and spending, but similar in their love of big men with long arms. He has made moves that I questioned and several of them fell flat (Solder, Omameh, trade for Ogletree, and the jury is still out on Adoree Jackson, who I felt was a huge overpay at the time).
But let's focus on the six first round draft picks starting with Barkley. I have no argument with this pick. I get the argument that first round RBs are risky because of the injury rate, but that goes along with not downgrading safeties and guards in the first round. It doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they need to be special in order to merit the pick. And Barkley is special. He proved it as a rookie. Do the injuries cloud his future? Of course they do, but I still believe it was the right move at the time given their views on the QB prospects (Josh Rosen was the only one I liked with the 2nd overall pick; I thought Mayfield was a poor fit for NYC, Darnold was a fraud, and Allen was worthy of a first round pick, but not top five because his college completion percentage was a red flag). In 2019, Drew Lock was my QB of choice and I was disappointed with the selection of Daniel Jones (but more on that later). Dexter Lawrence hasn't shined, but hasn't busted either. And as for the Baker trade, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Was it an ill-advised gamble at the time? He was the top CB on their board (and the first to be drafted that year), so it was defensible even with character concerns (which is likely what caused him to be available so late in the first round). Sometimes these gambles on guys who drop due to character concerns pay off (Randy Moss), sometimes they don't (DeAndre Baker). In 2020, I loved the Andrew Thomas selection. It was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants selected the guy I wanted with the pick. And I had no arguments with the trade down in 2021 and the selection of Toney.
As for the OL fix that Gettleman promised, well it's taken longer than anyone would've liked and injuries have been a factor, but I like where it's currently headed. I'm not as confident as some on BBI when it comes to Peart, but on the flipside, I like Lemieux better than most. Had it not been for the season-ending injuries to Gates and Lemieux, the games that that Thomas and Bredeson lost to injury, and Zach Fulton's retirement, the results would be much different. And I applaud Gettleman's aggressive moves when Lemieux got hurt and Fulton retired.
Next up on the list is Judge. I haven't got much to say on this. The jury is still out, but I think he's done a surprisingly good job of putting together a coaching staff, given his youth and inexperience. I'm cautiously optimistic about his future.
On to the big question: Daniel Jones. Like with Judge, the jury is still out (no pun intended). There has been good, bad, and ugly, but what impresses me most about him is the success he's had on 3rd and long despite a shaky OL and the times he has marched the team down the field following a deflating score by the opposing team. And credit to him for bouncing back in the KC game after the opening INT. So I'm still quite hopeful that Daniel Jones can be the answer. He won't be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, but he can be as good as Phil Simms and Eli Manning, and has a floor of Tannehill, Carr, and Cousins. We can win a Super Bowl with him.
So given my thoughts on Gettleman, Judge, and Jones, I feel like the Giants should err on the side of patience and continuity in the off-season ahead. This is a very young team; injuries and covid have stunted their growth and prevented them from developing consistency. With better health (fingers crossed) and more experience, the consistency will come, and the wins will follow. All we need is... ...just a little patience - ( New Window )
You lost me here.
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
You misunderstood me. I preferred Rosen to Barkley and I'm not claiming I didn't. My point was that Barkley would've been my second choice if, like the Giants, I didn't like any of the QBs. So in that sense, I had nothing against the pick (he was my second choice after Rosen, although I also liked Mayfield, just not for the Giants).
p.s.--You'll also note that I said Andrew Thomas was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants took who I wanted. If I was trying to claim that Barkley was my choice, it wouldn't've been more than a decade since they took my favorite.
This is one of the least objective summaries of Getts and the OL
I have ever read on BBI. Almost shocking quite frankly because I see who wrote it...
Quote:
As for the OL fix that Gettleman promised, well it's taken longer than anyone would've liked and injuries have been a factor, but I like where it's currently headed. I'm not as confident as some on BBI when it comes to Peart, but on the flipside, I like Lemieux better than most. Had it not been for the season-ending injuries to Gates and Lemieux, the games that that Thomas and Bredeson lost to injury, and Zach Fulton's retirement, the results would be much different. And I applaud Gettleman's aggressive moves when Lemieux got hurt and Fulton retired.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Overall I'd love to Trade Down
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
You misunderstood me. I preferred Rosen to Barkley and I'm not claiming I didn't. My point was that Barkley would've been my second choice if, like the Giants, I didn't like any of the QBs. So in that sense, I had nothing against the pick (he was my second choice after Rosen, although I also liked Mayfield, just not for the Giants).
p.s.--You'll also note that I said Andrew Thomas was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants took who I wanted. If I was trying to claim that Barkley was my choice, it wouldn't've been more than a decade since they took my favorite.
How often do you want to keep embarrassing yourself?
Maurkice Pouncey for Pittsburg was pretty great.
Who fits this criteria?
I agree. Thibodeaux has skills, but he disappears too much for me. In fact, I would take Hutch or Ojabu over KT if I thought pass rusher was the way to go.
However, I'm not there yet with taking a pass rusher high in this draft.
I'm more interested in OL, QB, OL, or OL. ;)
Or are we thinking Bart Oates? He won two Super Bowls as a Giant.
Somebody else? Did we ever have Jesse Sapolu?
Quote:
which is not exactly going out on a limb, but I think I would take him over Thibodeaux. If we could use some of our other draft capital to trade up for Neal and still get Hutchinson, I would be ecstatic.
I agree. Thibodeaux has skills, but he disappears too much for me. In fact, I would take Hutch or Ojabu over KT if I thought pass rusher was the way to go.
However, I'm not there yet with taking a pass rusher high in this draft.
I'm more interested in OL, QB, OL, or OL. ;)
Want no part of Thibodeaux.
Jags vs Texans
Jags vs Jets
Texans vs Jets
So there are at least 3 wins left in those teams. Lets hope Bears keep losing and end up picking 2nd or 3rd...that would guarantee Evan Neal hopefully.
Next week the Jets play the Texans, so one should have three wins. The Jags play Atlanta, which is winnable, and Seattle plays WFT. So if the Giants fail to win tomorrow and both us and the Bears lose next week both our picks could be tied with The Jets or Texans, and the Jags for the third worst record.
Want no part of Thibodeaux.
What bothers you about his game?
I know we could use OL help but Hamilton is just too good imo to pass on.
Gotta take it one game at a time. Root like hell for your team to win and take consolation in the picks when they don’t.
Also kind of fun to root for the Bears to collapse and Indy and Miami to win to hurt Philly’s positions.
As to who we pick, there will be plenty of movement up and down draft boards in the months to come, way too early to start digging heels in over one player or another.
Quote:
Want no part of Thibodeaux.
What bothers you about his game?
I think he spends a lot of time standing around doing nothing, and he gets washed out easily. I think whomever drafts him is doing so based on flashes, not anything he does consistently. I don't see a difference make there at all.
Further, even if he's good I'm not sure edge rusher has the value in today's game that it did even ten years ago.
Quote:
In comment 15459956 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Want no part of Thibodeaux.
What bothers you about his game?
I think he spends a lot of time standing around doing nothing, and he gets washed out easily. I think whomever drafts him is doing so based on flashes, not anything he does consistently. I don't see a difference make there at all.
Further, even if he's good I'm not sure edge rusher has the value in today's game that it did even ten years ago.
Edge matters but this team needs OL in the worst way. If it's close between Edge and OL, you have to go OL.
I'm frankly tired of all the whining that we can't judge our QB unless we have a better line.
or is done at this point no?
Do scouts go out with the DG bathwater if he is let go this early winter?
Solder, Hernandez, Skura, and Price aren’t under contract next year.
Gates has a long road back. If Lemieux’s patellar injury was significant he does as well.
The Giants very easily could be looking to replace all three interior lineman.
Need DT and LB somewhere also.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Need DT and LB somewhere also.
Also need a Tight End.
Trade down. . .
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
or is done at this point no?
Do scouts go out with the DG bathwater if he is let go this early winter?
They'll be around until after the draft if any big changes happen.
Honestly, I never understand why people want to blow up the whole scouting staff. I can see the person running the show going, but area scouts and the like are turning in their reports and grading based on the system the GM and Scouting director put in place. I think it's an easier transition to leave most of that group in place and change their marching orders then let the new GM evaluate, and replace people as time goes on.
Quote:
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Ideally they can trade out of Days 1 and 2 completely and then they will own Day 3!
Ideally they could do what I said.
Another very good first round center.
Quote:
Is linderbaum big enough for the pro game?
IDK, but they asked the same thing about Aaron Donald and he turned out ok. There's more to it than just how much you weigh
I think it's a bit different in terms of absorbing contact vs. avoiding contact, but your point is still valid.
Quote:
Unless the QB is someone you want.
Otherwise trade down and accumulate picks from late rd 1 to very early rd 3 with something good in 2023 in case you need to go QB hunting again.
Ideally they can trade out of Days 1 and 2 completely and then they will own Day 3!
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
Quote:
there is crazy hype around a center, they never materialize. When was the last great center drafted in the first round?
Nick Mangold, Alex Mack, Maurkice Pouncey…
That'll be the last we see of BBJ on this thread.
I'm frankly tired of all the whining that we can't judge our QB unless we have a better line.
Sorry that facts bother you so much..
Quote:
let's solve the OL once and for all, if we can in this draft.
I'm frankly tired of all the whining that we can't judge our QB unless we have a better line.
.
Sorry that facts bother you so much..
The thing is, it's not a fact. Because even if you want to defend DJ, it's not like you can prove that he'd be a star with a better OL.
It's entirely possible that both the OL and the QB are problems. It's not zero sum.
Thus, it's not a fact.
Quote:
In comment 15460259 Producer said:
Quote:
let's solve the OL once and for all, if we can in this draft.
I'm frankly tired of all the whining that we can't judge our QB unless we have a better line.
.
Sorry that facts bother you so much..
The thing is, it's not a fact. Because even if you want to defend DJ, it's not like you can prove that he'd be a star with a better OL.
It's entirely possible that both the OL and the QB are problems. It's not zero sum.
Thus, it's not a fact.
Precisely.
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
Gettleman is very different than any other GM we've had in the past both in terms of personality and philosophy. He is more aggressive than we're used to, with a swash-buckling style, the opposite of George Young when it comes to trading and spending, but similar in their love of big men with long arms. He has made moves that I questioned and several of them fell flat (Solder, Omameh, trade for Ogletree, and the jury is still out on Adoree Jackson, who I felt was a huge overpay at the time).
But let's focus on the six first round draft picks starting with Barkley. I have no argument with this pick. I get the argument that first round RBs are risky because of the injury rate, but that goes along with not downgrading safeties and guards in the first round. It doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they need to be special in order to merit the pick. And Barkley is special. He proved it as a rookie. Do the injuries cloud his future? Of course they do, but I still believe it was the right move at the time given their views on the QB prospects (Josh Rosen was the only one I liked with the 2nd overall pick; I thought Mayfield was a poor fit for NYC, Darnold was a fraud, and Allen was worthy of a first round pick, but not top five because his college completion percentage was a red flag). In 2019, Drew Lock was my QB of choice and I was disappointed with the selection of Daniel Jones (but more on that later). Dexter Lawrence hasn't shined, but hasn't busted either. And as for the Baker trade, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Was it an ill-advised gamble at the time? He was the top CB on their board (and the first to be drafted that year), so it was defensible even with character concerns (which is likely what caused him to be available so late in the first round). Sometimes these gambles on guys who drop due to character concerns pay off (Randy Moss), sometimes they don't (DeAndre Baker). In 2020, I loved the Andrew Thomas selection. It was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants selected the guy I wanted with the pick. And I had no arguments with the trade down in 2021 and the selection of Toney.
As for the OL fix that Gettleman promised, well it's taken longer than anyone would've liked and injuries have been a factor, but I like where it's currently headed. I'm not as confident as some on BBI when it comes to Peart, but on the flipside, I like Lemieux better than most. Had it not been for the season-ending injuries to Gates and Lemieux, the games that that Thomas and Bredeson lost to injury, and Zach Fulton's retirement, the results would be much different. And I applaud Gettleman's aggressive moves when Lemieux got hurt and Fulton retired.
Next up on the list is Judge. I haven't got much to say on this. The jury is still out, but I think he's done a surprisingly good job of putting together a coaching staff, given his youth and inexperience. I'm cautiously optimistic about his future.
On to the big question: Daniel Jones. Like with Judge, the jury is still out (no pun intended). There has been good, bad, and ugly, but what impresses me most about him is the success he's had on 3rd and long despite a shaky OL and the times he has marched the team down the field following a deflating score by the opposing team. And credit to him for bouncing back in the KC game after the opening INT. So I'm still quite hopeful that Daniel Jones can be the answer. He won't be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, but he can be as good as Phil Simms and Eli Manning, and has a floor of Tannehill, Carr, and Cousins. We can win a Super Bowl with him.
So given my thoughts on Gettleman, Judge, and Jones, I feel like the Giants should err on the side of patience and continuity in the off-season ahead. This is a very young team; injuries and covid have stunted their growth and prevented them from developing consistency. With better health (fingers crossed) and more experience, the consistency will come, and the wins will follow. All we need is...
...just a little patience - ( New Window )
I would say no to both.
If Gettleman had drafted Herbert even though we already had Jones, I would then say, yes he's a swash buckler. And I would be fully behind him.
Instead he is an old school bore with bad ideas.
The thing is, it's not a fact. Because even if you want to defend DJ, it's not like you can prove that he'd be a star with a better OL.
There's literally nothing on Jones' football resume going back to high school to suggest he's capable of stardom, and yet people cling to the belief that he's going to figure it out at the NFL level, just as soon as everything around him is absolutely perfect.
Quote:
Milton, I really have to say - I'm surprised at your heel turn lately. You used to be a very balanced fan, capable of recognizing the opportunities as well as the weaknesses on the roster.
Sure, we butted heads about your affinity for Boylhart, and your nonstop support for Josh Rosen and Cam Robinson, but this recent swing toward becoming a die-hard DG supporter in spite of the results seems odd. Has something about this team given you reason to defend DG, or is it because you feel inclined to defend DG on a personal level?
I consider myself a realist who errs on the side of optimism when things are going poorly and pragmatism when things are going well. There are currently three main question marks facing the Giants and they are the three biggies: GM, HC, QB. Let's break them down one at a time...
Gettleman is very different than any other GM we've had in the past both in terms of personality and philosophy. He is more aggressive than we're used to, with a swash-buckling style, the opposite of George Young when it comes to trading and spending, but similar in their love of big men with long arms. He has made moves that I questioned and several of them fell flat (Solder, Omameh, trade for Ogletree, and the jury is still out on Adoree Jackson, who I felt was a huge overpay at the time).
But let's focus on the six first round draft picks starting with Barkley. I have no argument with this pick. I get the argument that first round RBs are risky because of the injury rate, but that goes along with not downgrading safeties and guards in the first round. It doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they need to be special in order to merit the pick. And Barkley is special. He proved it as a rookie. Do the injuries cloud his future? Of course they do, but I still believe it was the right move at the time given their views on the QB prospects (Josh Rosen was the only one I liked with the 2nd overall pick; I thought Mayfield was a poor fit for NYC, Darnold was a fraud, and Allen was worthy of a first round pick, but not top five because his college completion percentage was a red flag). In 2019, Drew Lock was my QB of choice and I was disappointed with the selection of Daniel Jones (but more on that later). Dexter Lawrence hasn't shined, but hasn't busted either. And as for the Baker trade, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Was it an ill-advised gamble at the time? He was the top CB on their board (and the first to be drafted that year), so it was defensible even with character concerns (which is likely what caused him to be available so late in the first round). Sometimes these gambles on guys who drop due to character concerns pay off (Randy Moss), sometimes they don't (DeAndre Baker). In 2020, I loved the Andrew Thomas selection. It was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants selected the guy I wanted with the pick. And I had no arguments with the trade down in 2021 and the selection of Toney.
As for the OL fix that Gettleman promised, well it's taken longer than anyone would've liked and injuries have been a factor, but I like where it's currently headed. I'm not as confident as some on BBI when it comes to Peart, but on the flipside, I like Lemieux better than most. Had it not been for the season-ending injuries to Gates and Lemieux, the games that that Thomas and Bredeson lost to injury, and Zach Fulton's retirement, the results would be much different. And I applaud Gettleman's aggressive moves when Lemieux got hurt and Fulton retired.
Next up on the list is Judge. I haven't got much to say on this. The jury is still out, but I think he's done a surprisingly good job of putting together a coaching staff, given his youth and inexperience. I'm cautiously optimistic about his future.
On to the big question: Daniel Jones. Like with Judge, the jury is still out (no pun intended). There has been good, bad, and ugly, but what impresses me most about him is the success he's had on 3rd and long despite a shaky OL and the times he has marched the team down the field following a deflating score by the opposing team. And credit to him for bouncing back in the KC game after the opening INT. So I'm still quite hopeful that Daniel Jones can be the answer. He won't be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, but he can be as good as Phil Simms and Eli Manning, and has a floor of Tannehill, Carr, and Cousins. We can win a Super Bowl with him.
So given my thoughts on Gettleman, Judge, and Jones, I feel like the Giants should err on the side of patience and continuity in the off-season ahead. This is a very young team; injuries and covid have stunted their growth and prevented them from developing consistency. With better health (fingers crossed) and more experience, the consistency will come, and the wins will follow. All we need is... ...just a little patience - ( New Window )
You lost me here.
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
This is an insane thing to say based on what Jones has shown to date.
Quote:
but he can be as good as Phil Simms and Eli Manning, and has a floor of Tannehill, Carr, and Cousins
This is an insane thing to say based on what Jones has shown to date.
Milton is a good case study in how much stronger the THC content in weed has gotten. Because his football acumen is definitely not keeping up.
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
p.s.--You'll also note that I said Andrew Thomas was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants took who I wanted. If I was trying to claim that Barkley was my choice, it wouldn't've been more than a decade since they took my favorite.
Quote:
Every single person on BBI knows that you stained your pants repeatedly over Josh Rosen. Rosen wasn't your "I like him if we don't take Barkley" suggestion.
Rosen was your "this is our QB for the next decade or more" suggestion. Fucking own it.
You misunderstood me. I preferred Rosen to Barkley and I'm not claiming I didn't. My point was that Barkley would've been my second choice if, like the Giants, I didn't like any of the QBs. So in that sense, I had nothing against the pick (he was my second choice after Rosen, although I also liked Mayfield, just not for the Giants).
p.s.--You'll also note that I said Andrew Thomas was the first time in more than a decade that the Giants took who I wanted. If I was trying to claim that Barkley was my choice, it wouldn't've been more than a decade since they took my favorite.
How often do you want to keep embarrassing yourself?