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Justin Herbert

BigBlueJ : 11/22/2021 12:18 pm
Watching him closely this season. I have no doubt he is a franchise QB and he will be one for the Chargers for the next 10 years. I have been watching and rooting for Daniel the last 3 years, objectively finding reasons why he should be and subjectively defending his failures in many of the reasoning from this board.

We will see tonight with all his weapons and the best player on our offense returning from an ankle injury (Andrew Thomas). We need to see magic, I hope we see magic. I hope this is the signature game we talk about and reminisce in the off season. My heart wants him to be something he has not either been allowed to be or has not had the ability to demonstrate. His peers in his own division we once derided and laughed at, continue to outshine him, even if we don't want to admit it.

Tonight I expect to see, WFT, Panthers or a Saints performance. Tonight I think he will be special or he will be what he is.
Another Dumb post.  
MarkT : 11/22/2021 12:24 pm : link
Justin Herbert seems to be a great player... Hope so.
To say that The Giants are on an equal footing with them Just because Thomas is returning is DUMB. We are on second and third string players in most offensive positions. No one player is going to change that, including Thomas, and Barkley.
Our line is makeshift at best due to injuries.
Makes no sense. Just more BBI hate. BBI wishing to only play the "get a better pick" game.
I think alot of people are in a similar boat...  
ambr0se201 : 11/22/2021 12:25 pm : link
I think the magic of his debut game 2 years ago gave us an instant bright light through the previous years of garbage and hope. Unfortunately, outside of a few games it has mostly been a mirage for a multitude of reasons. Look, he has all the tools in the world and I love him as a person, but I can't defend or make any more excuses for him.
This idea that one game is going to show us who Jones is or isn't  
Mike from Ohio : 11/22/2021 12:27 pm : link
is a little overblown. One of the main concerns (at least for me) about Jones is his inconsistency. I would love to see him have a huge game tonight, but if he follows that with two middling games, it doesn't mean much.

This is a tough test against a very good defense. It isn't in a bubble a referendum on Jones. What we can hope for is it is a very positive game and the start of a string of them.
It usually takes a post or two  
UberAlias : 11/22/2021 12:28 pm : link
For a thread about some other team or player to become about Danial Jones. This time it happened the second sentence into the OP, LOL.
RE: It usually takes a post or two  
Mike from Ohio : 11/22/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15460660 UberAlias said:
Quote:
For a thread about some other team or player to become about Danial Jones. This time it happened the second sentence into the OP, LOL.


Yeah I don't know why this thread is titled "Justin Herbert" since it really isn't about Herbert at all, but Jones.
Keep in mind Jones was the backup idea re: Herbert  
DavidinBMNY : 11/22/2021 12:31 pm : link
The Giants wanted Herbert when he was a junior. They scouted something like 7 of his games live. Herbert went back to school, and the guy they liked best after him was Jones at least by the time they picked because Murray was already off the board.

Listen Jones, is running out of time to start being able to show he can do something. In today's game and the economy of the game, those are the facts.

And I like Jones, but I like winning more.
Let's just be clear about the big picture  
rsjem1979 : 11/22/2021 12:31 pm : link
It's perfectly fair to compare Jones to Herbert. They are contemporaries.

Unfortunately for Jones (and all of us) Herbert is better in every single way, and it's not particularly close.
Herbert  
Jerry in_DC : 11/22/2021 12:44 pm : link
is really good. Doesn't really have anything to do with Jones (who is not good - this is like comparing Justin Jefferson to Darius Slayton)

The Giants are barely an NFL team, so I look for entertainment elsewhere in the league. Herbert is a fun guy to watch - hope LAC makes the playoffs and we get to see what he has in the post season.
word is that gettleman want to wait til '20 and move to get herbert  
japanhead : 11/22/2021 12:48 pm : link
but that the mara's and shurmur forced the jones pick in '19, based on 1) shurmur's ability to make chicken salad out of chicken shit at the QB position, and 2) mara's insistence that then next quarterback have a bench year to "learn under eli" and because jones was coached by cutliffe and had some kind of history with eli.

this is why it's problematic to blame gettleman for all of this team's roster fails over the last four years. the giants talent acquisition problems go far beyond gettleman.
RE: word is that gettleman want to wait til '20 and move to get herbert  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/22/2021 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15460690 japanhead said:
Quote:
but that the mara's and shurmur forced the jones pick in '19, based on 1) shurmur's ability to make chicken salad out of chicken shit at the QB position, and 2) mara's insistence that then next quarterback have a bench year to "learn under eli" and because jones was coached by cutliffe and had some kind of history with eli.

this is why it's problematic to blame gettleman for all of this team's roster fails over the last four years. the giants talent acquisition problems go far beyond gettleman.


Curious where you got that word from? This is the first and only time I've ever heard anything like that.

Not totally implausible given the state of the organization, but seems weird that this wouldn't have come out before now.
RE: RE: word is that gettleman want to wait til '20 and move to get herbert  
upnyg : 11/22/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15460750 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
In comment 15460690 japanhead said:


Quote:


but that the mara's and shurmur forced the jones pick in '19, based on 1) shurmur's ability to make chicken salad out of chicken shit at the QB position, and 2) mara's insistence that then next quarterback have a bench year to "learn under eli" and because jones was coached by cutliffe and had some kind of history with eli.

this is why it's problematic to blame gettleman for all of this team's roster fails over the last four years. the giants talent acquisition problems go far beyond gettleman.



Curious where you got that word from? This is the first and only time I've ever heard anything like that.

Not totally implausible given the state of the organization, but seems weird that this wouldn't have come out before now.

I dont know if this is true or not, but I posted before...if we all think firing Gettlemen makes us a better team, we're mistaken.

Mara's have to step back and hire a GM/Pro Personnel group that runs the team and makes the decisions. Otherwise we'll be swapping out coaches and GMs every 2-3 years.
DG was scouting Herbert heavily  
JonC : 11/22/2021 1:56 pm : link
during the 2018 season, hoping he'd declare for the 2019 draft. When he didn't, it seems Shurmur was the catalyst for the interest in and pivot to Jones. With Eli faded and fans in near revolt over the QB situation, it seems clear Mara et al reacted by grabbing a QB they clearly overrated.
Come on  
UberAlias : 11/22/2021 2:00 pm : link
The man has been here four years and hasn't moved the talent needle. We still lack Oline LBs and pass rush, three of biggest problems when he arrived. Not to mention the whole botched assessment of the team in his first year. Some online source-less suggestion that DG had some strong conviction for Herbert but got overruled and forced DJ on him by the coach he hired is a flimsy argument in his favor.
That post was directed at the statements  
UberAlias : 11/22/2021 2:04 pm : link
About difficulty to blame DG for the roster, not JonC's post.
There is zero evidence to suggest that somehow  
Mike from Ohio : 11/22/2021 2:14 pm : link
Jones was forced on DG by Mara. I have no idea if he was or wasn't, but it is disingenuous to give DG a pass based on pure speculation.

Shurmur may have loved Jones. Mara may have loved Jones. DG says he loved Jones. I think some are trying to overthink this to make excuses for a guy who evidence suggests is not very good at drafting talent.
Herbert a franchise QB - No shit sherlock  
ZogZerg : 11/22/2021 2:19 pm : link
WTF does that have to do with Jones?

JFC with this place.
So....  
DannyDimes : 11/22/2021 3:02 pm : link
It's all on tonight? If DJ has an average game that's it... cut him... LOL
RE: There is zero evidence to suggest that somehow  
bw in dc : 11/22/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15460818 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Jones was forced on DG by Mara. I have no idea if he was or wasn't, but it is disingenuous to give DG a pass based on pure speculation.

Shurmur may have loved Jones. Mara may have loved Jones. DG says he loved Jones. I think some are trying to overthink this to make excuses for a guy who evidence suggests is not very good at drafting talent.


This is right to me.

Gettleman was head over heels "in full bloom love" with Jones based on Senior Bowl practices. I was waiting for DG to announce at that press conference that he was coming out of the closet and was going to propose to Jones. It was like watching Cruise jump on the couch on Oprah declaring his love for Katie Holmes.
Baker Mayfield isn't all he  
Gman11 : 11/22/2021 3:09 pm : link
was cracked up to be. What the hell that has to do with Jones I don't know, but I thought I would just throw that out there.
Once Herbert went back to school  
ajr2456 : 11/22/2021 3:11 pm : link
DG fell in love with Jones. He wasn’t forced. Mara would have been fine going all in one more time with Eli and taking a pass rusher or OL.
RE: Come on  
japanhead : 11/22/2021 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15460789 UberAlias said:
Quote:
The man has been here four years and hasn't moved the talent needle. We still lack Oline LBs and pass rush, three of biggest problems when he arrived. Not to mention the whole botched assessment of the team in his first year. Some online source-less suggestion that DG had some strong conviction for Herbert but got overruled and forced DJ on him by the coach he hired is a flimsy argument in his favor.


i'm not absolving gettleman of anything and would like to see him gone-- if for no other reason than he's been a complicit yes-man in a shitshow of a roster build since 2018. but he's far from the one calling all the shots in personnel and he's not the final voice either.

another example: you think he went out and got bethea for S because he thought he was the best option? or you think bettcher wanted him and gettleman said "ok"? gettleman is a yes-man with some ideas of his own but is happy to defer to the maras and the coaches in the spirit of "collaboration" and because he loves the giants.

same thing with the draft this year. he wanted to go OL over toney, but was overruled by judge and deferred to him. that is who gettleman is.

as for where i heard the bit about gettleman wanting herbert and shurmur/mara pushing him to go with jones, i forget the exact source but it was either raanan's podcast or the giants insider podcast.

RE: Once Herbert went back to school  
japanhead : 11/22/2021 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15460882 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
DG fell in love with Jones. He wasn’t forced. Mara would have been fine going all in one more time with Eli and taking a pass rusher or OL.


i agree that mara would have been fine going all-in with eli and that was indeed the plan until shurmur benched him for jones. but it's also true that mara was very intent on drafting a QB to sit for a year to be able to "learn under eli" -- because he is in love with eli.

and i understand that. i'm very sentimentally attached to eli as well. but im just some fan. the guy dictating roster decisions shouldn't be blinded by sentimentality.

and i'll just say it: gettleman wasn't "in full bloom love" with jones, despite saying this. he was with herbert. he went to see jones play live one time, at the fucking senior bowl. he saw herbert like 8 times.

if there's one thing we know about gettleman it's that he has absolutely no problem lying to the media to justify or explain away team decision making..
And it only took until the second post for someone to say  
WillieYoung : 11/22/2021 3:25 pm : link
You're dumb and I'm smart because you don't agree with me. This is an opinion forum, not a universal truth forum.
RE: RE: Once Herbert went back to school  
bw in dc : 11/22/2021 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15460895 japanhead said:
Quote:

and i'll just say it: gettleman wasn't "in full bloom love" with jones, despite saying this. he was with herbert. he went to see jones play live one time, at the fucking senior bowl. he saw herbert like 8 times.



Let's not act like Gettleman is Bob DeNiro with great acting chops. You watch the video below. Gettleman was without a doubt ALL IN on Jones.

On the other hand, look at Shurmur. He looks he'd rather be talking about cleaning gutters...

Gettleman - The Lover - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Once Herbert went back to school  
japanhead : 11/22/2021 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15460918 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15460895 japanhead said:


Quote:



and i'll just say it: gettleman wasn't "in full bloom love" with jones, despite saying this. he was with herbert. he went to see jones play live one time, at the fucking senior bowl. he saw herbert like 8 times.





Let's not act like Gettleman is Bob DeNiro with great acting chops. You watch the video below. Gettleman was without a doubt ALL IN on Jones.

On the other hand, look at Shurmur. He looks he'd rather be talking about cleaning gutters... Gettleman - The Lover - ( New Window )


i'm not one for inferring the positons people hold based on body language or tone of voice/inflection. everyone knows shurmur's personality was that of a corpse, whereas gettleman's is that of a court jester.

you can believe that the entire front office was on the same page about jones and being in full bloom love with him or not, i could care less. but various giants podcasts/beat writers have intimated that one of the principal reasons the roster looks like a fucked up frankenstein monster is due to all the competing voices in the room.

this problem has even been acknowledged on BBI corner forum threads.

I like herbert, and liked him alot for 2019  
dancing blue bear : 11/22/2021 3:47 pm : link
when it seemed like he would come out, but people who pretend like they KNOW he is this or that at this point are full of shit. All these young guys are inconsistent at this opint in their careers. They are learning the game, making great plays, making mistakes. All that. He came off a few tough games and played well last night. No Doubt, but I remember when Baker was the next great thing, RJIIIwas gonna revolutionize the game, Andrew luck was a no doubt HOF. I remember when Peyton vs Leaf was a debate. I'm sorry but you don't get the answer today. Not how life works.
Andrew Luck  
ajr2456 : 11/22/2021 3:49 pm : link
Not becoming a HOF wasn’t due to a lack of skill.

Herbert has shown way more than of the QBs you listed ever had.
I don’t entirely get the Mara hate…  
trueblueinpw : 11/22/2021 3:55 pm : link
I think he’s kind of lousy guy b/c of what’s going on with Leonard Marshall. This I see as garden variety NFL owner scumbaggery.

But I don’t really see Mara as some guy that would be demanding Jones drafted as the QB. He seems like a pretty typical born rich kind of guy. Not any worse than most but not really any better. And I think he wants to win. I’m fairly sure Mara is a good guy and I know he isn’t a total jerk like Danny Boy and he’s not indifferent like some NFL owners. I could be totally wrong but I don’t really Mara is the meddling menace he’s made out to be by some of us. If there are “a lot of voices in the room”, which seems likely, it’s probably Mara’s lack of resolve that’s hindering the Giants more so than any irrational imperial orders.

Again, pure speculation on my part.
True on Luck  
dancing blue bear : 11/22/2021 3:55 pm : link
However, it still happened. That's the point. Watson has derailed his career somewhat. he may get back, he may not. People were questioning whether the league figured out mahommes 3 weeks ago, and josh allen has hung a few stinkers lately. Lamar had a tough time in Miami and in cold weather. These young guys are super talented, but being a franchise QB is a combination of talent AND time. and health is a part of the equation.

The point is the future is unknown.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Once Herbert went back to school  
rsjem1979 : 11/22/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15460927 japanhead said:
Quote:

i'm not one for inferring the positons people hold based on body language or tone of voice/inflection. everyone knows shurmur's personality was that of a corpse, whereas gettleman's is that of a court jester.

you can believe that the entire front office was on the same page about jones and being in full bloom love with him or not, i could care less. but various giants podcasts/beat writers have intimated that one of the principal reasons the roster looks like a fucked up frankenstein monster is due to all the competing voices in the room.

this problem has even been acknowledged on BBI corner forum threads.


Obviously the Giants organizational structure is an enormous issue. One need look no further than the fact that Dave Gettleman was hired as the GM in the first place.

Herbert  
stretch234 : 11/22/2021 4:05 pm : link
Herbert is showing that he is well on the way to being a top level QB ….how does Herbert do throwing the ball to Colin Johnson, CJ Board, Dante Pettis, D. Booker vs Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, A. Ekeler

The fact that C. Johnson is getting 30% of offensive snaps is telling. The Giants have 1 WR over 40%. K. Allen is at 89% and M. Williams is at 77%. Their no 3WR is at 56%. Golliday is at 45%

He also has had 3OL play 100% of,snaps,and a 4th at 94%

I know almost every thread has become a bash Jones thread but there has to be some perspective.

I don't believe DG was strong-armed into  
Mike from Ohio : 11/22/2021 4:10 pm : link
drafting Jones. Could I see him deferring to Shurmur if Shurmur was all in on him? Yeah. Shurmur's reputation was that of a QB whisperer, and if he saw a guy he belived in that should carry some weight.

As for Mara? It is not hard to see him loving the Jones pick as being as close as he would get to Eli 2.0.

Gettleman may have preferred Herbert, but not knowing where they would be picking the following year and Shurmur and Mara on board with Jones, I could see him saying "Sure, let's take him."

Most draft decisions are likely not one person alone making the call. But that does not mean Jones was not a DG pick. He would certainly be getting lauded for it if Jones were playing like Herbert.
japanhead...  
bw in dc : 11/22/2021 4:16 pm : link
You're preaching to the converted that Jints Central have to many cooks in the kitchen. And that's been a problem for a long time building a quality team.

But I believe Gettleman caught the Jones fever at the 2019 Senior Bowl and had zero problem convincing the other cooks because all of Jones's connections to Eli. On paper, DG solved the biggest dream of all - finding Eli 2.0.
RE: So....  
Section331 : 11/22/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15460863 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
It's all on tonight? If DJ has an average game that's it... cut him... LOL


If you're going to troll, do us a favor and at least be good at it.

No one is saying Herbert is great because of one game, or that Jones isn't because of one game, but it's been a hell of a lot of games for each - good for Herbert, and not so good for Jones.

Jones has had 6 good games in 35 starts, Herbert had has 5 this year.
RE: RE: RE: Once Herbert went back to school  
Section331 : 11/22/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15460918 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15460895 japanhead said:


Quote:



and i'll just say it: gettleman wasn't "in full bloom love" with jones, despite saying this. he was with herbert. he went to see jones play live one time, at the fucking senior bowl. he saw herbert like 8 times.





Let's not act like Gettleman is Bob DeNiro with great acting chops. You watch the video below. Gettleman was without a doubt ALL IN on Jones.

On the other hand, look at Shurmur. He looks he'd rather be talking about cleaning gutters... Gettleman - The Lover - ( New Window )


Yeah, I have serious doubts that Shurmur was all-in on Jones. Reports, even reports before that draft, implied that Shurmur really liked Lock (if true, proving that Shurmur wasn't a fool-proof judge of QB's either).
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