But he hasn’t. We need a new QB, a much better interior OL and legit pass rushers. I was hopeful, but it’s clear he isn’t the answer. question is, what do we do? This isn’t a deep draft at QB. Do we even have cap space to sign a veteran to be a stop gap? Really disheartening that we are still a few years away from even being competitive.
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
Problem with this line of thinking. Kitchens has, according to some beats, had more influence within the offense recently. That who you’re going to promote?
to not pick up his option, move down with one of our picks picking up a future 1st in 2023. I have not done my homework on this years QB draft class but from what I hear it's not the best.
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
Problem with this line of thinking. Kitchens has, according to some beats, had more influence within the offense recently. That who you’re going to promote?
since your not going to replace jones this year, there are plenty of games left to try it out... so yeah. its easier to change play calling duties than to find a QB
No QB is going to win with this OL and no one on D to rush the passer. Build the lines first, then get a QB.
This is what should have been done after 2017...stay with Eli (or a FA like Bridgewater), and build the lines, so you had a real rebuild, and THEN draft a QB. RB's and QB's are luxuries that are wasted when your lines stink. Yes, you're going to lose, but at least there would be some hope, unlike this mess.
That requires real patience, and the ability to draft well, something that is difficult to do, and apparently impossible for the Giants FO. We won't see results until the basic problems are fixed...so keep Jones while he's cheap, and then get a FA while a REAL rebuild is done.
He could have been a good player if he went right into a great situation. Unfortunately this has been a terrible situation and there’s no end in sight.
His career is a perfect storm of ineptitude. Some of it out of his control but much of it has been within his control and he just doesn’t make enough plays to win football games.
A new O-co, let AT get fully healthy and draft a blue chip RT and two stud guards for inside and sign an All Pro center and then get another play maker at the TE position and draft a TE that can block and get a running back and get Saquon out in space one on one with the slot or the sub linebacker and run a wheel route and get Toney involved in the game and hire a few more O line coaches and get a QB coach for the QB coach and then put some more talent on the defense and you’ll Jones is gonna be just as good as Eli was. Maybe better than Simms too.
He had 4 really good games under Shurmur, the other 8 were mediocre to flat out bad. Not surprising for a rookie, but he hasn’t progressed at all. In fact, he’s regressed, but we need to stop making too much of his first year. It wasn’t as good as some make it out to be.
Great kid, hard worker, good representative for the franchise, just not good enough at QB.
I just hope we don’t force a QB in the draft. I’d rather sign someone to stabilize the organization (like we did with Collins) until we are in the position (value meets need) to draft one.
No QB is going to win with this OL and no one on D to rush the passer. Build the lines first, then get a QB.
This is what should have been done after 2017...stay with Eli (or a FA like Bridgewater), and build the lines, so you had a real rebuild, and THEN draft a QB. RB's and QB's are luxuries that are wasted when your lines stink. Yes, you're going to lose, but at least there would be some hope, unlike this mess.
That requires real patience, and the ability to draft well, something that is difficult to do, and apparently impossible for the Giants FO. We won't see results until the basic problems are fixed...so keep Jones while he's cheap, and then get a FA while a REAL rebuild is done.
Agree...it will be painful. But the team is a few years away now. Build out the lines and then let go of Jones after next year. They have no money next year.
I don't really see what they are going to do with Barkley next year. It's a distraction. He plays every snap when he is clearly banged up. The coaching staff doesn't know what to do with him.
I’m watching what he’s checking down to and the targets he’s missing. Im watching him throw directly into a DT’s stomach. I’m watching other QB’s in the league do more with less.
And on queue, I’m watching him not read an underneath coverage LB, resulting in another INT.
A new O-co, let AT get fully healthy and draft a blue chip RT and two stud guards for inside and sign an All Pro center and then get another play maker at the TE position and draft a TE that can block and get a running back and get Saquon out in space one on one with the slot or the sub linebacker and run a wheel route and get Toney involved in the game and hire a few more O line coaches and get a QB coach for the QB coach and then put some more talent on the defense and you’ll Jones is gonna be just as good as Eli was. Maybe better than Simms too.
There is no stay the course. In one year they have to decide to pay him like a free agent to be or not. They used up their free time to build it up. After next season you have to commit or not. There's not much more time for hopes and dreams.
It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
I have tried so hard to like him. I want him to work.
He just isn't the answer. He panics under pressure, telegraphs throws, misses easy completions, and quite honestly doesn't have the special arm talent to make up for it.
His pocket movement is also awful. Some plays he steps up into pressure, other plays he's a sitting duck when he should be climbing the pocket, and others he flees the pocket immediately which is usually a bad sign as he is very poor on the run for the most part.
In next years draft, I don't really see a QB that stands out so not sure if this is the year to move on. Suck it up with him another year and probably end up picking top 5 again anyway where they 2023 class will hopefully be better.
we aren't going anywhere with him or until we get some more players. He is filler on another lost season or two. Jones may be bright, athletic and a good dude but his lengthy decision making and information processing makes the players around him worse than they are. Plus, its not like all the processing time is helping him make accurate throws or good decisions.
This is not all on the coordinators, there were plays on the field that Jones was not capable of making, not due to physical limitations, but due to panic and inability to rapidly see the field.
The situation always seems bigger than Jones whereas for good players, they are bigger than the situation.
Whether it is Jones or the coaches, the telegraphing of throws, not seeing the entire field and his inability to make a play to carry the team is his death knell.
It makes me sick to say this because it means 3-4 more years of rebuilding.
If the Giants do decide to move on from Jones, clean house and get a new GM and coaching staff.
we aren't going anywhere with him or until we get some more players. He is filler on another lost season or two. Jones may be bright, athletic and a good dude but his lengthy decision making and information processing makes the players around him worse than they are. Plus, its not like all the processing time is helping him make accurate throws or good decisions.
This is not all on the coordinators, there were plays on the field that Jones was not capable of making, not due to physical limitations, but due to panic and inability to rapidly see the field.
The situation always seems bigger than Jones whereas for good players, they are bigger than the situation.
but the flaws are just indefensible at this point. I have defended the lack of an offensive line, but both INTs tonight were just abominable. The consistency just isn’t there
I’ve been in the “move on from him” camp since he was drafted
There is no money left in 2022 for any decent FA QB. And a rookie QB will be destroyed behind this line next year, especially if we put rookies on the OL (since we can't get FA Linemen, either).
Jones needs to stay because of the 2022 cap. Yeah, the team is going to suck, but if we can get 2 or more decent Offensive linemen in the draft, it will make things much better in 2023 and beyond when cap room goes up. Nothing can be done about next year, other than developing rookies.
Whether it is Jones or the coaches, the telegraphing of throws, not seeing the entire field and his inability to make a play to carry the team is his death knell.
It makes me sick to say this because it means 3-4 more years of rebuilding.
If the Giants do decide to move on from Jones, clean house and get a new GM and coaching staff.
Let Danny Nickel play out his rookie contract. Draft a QB with the higher of our first round picks this offseason. Let Danny be the punching bag until the Meadowlands booing gets too loud, then stick the new guy in there next season.
but the flaws are just indefensible at this point. I have defended the lack of an offensive line, but both INTs tonight were just abominable. The consistency just isn’t there
You're lying to yourself.
He is not good. He can have a good play, a good game, but he is limited in so many ways. Arm talent, mental makeup, instincts. he is not a starting QB in this league and never will be,
if this shit show in front of him gets even 50% better he can be a good/very good QB, He;s had no chance.
I’m not arguing or picking a fight here. Serious question
What have you seen outside of a throw or 2 every few weeks, or an RPO run where he takes off, that makes you believe he can be a very good QB?
I just don’t see it. It’s terrible decision making, bad ball placement and a lack of field vision, week in and week out. There are moments where you think, ‘damn. That was nice’. But consistency is not one of his strong suits.
Is there a QB who can win here, with this oline? I doubt it. But he doesn’t make me think he can elevate the level of his own play and def not his team, to put them on his back, like the top tier QB’s do in the league
But 100% take a qb with one of the two firsts if a non Gettleman GM thinks it’s the pick. But the team likely sucks for the foreseeable future so I’m not opposed to seeing him next year with a new oc and non dog shit OL
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
That said, I’d fix the OL before I worried about getting another QB.
The Giants have had a dysfunctional OL since 2013. This mess started when they passed up Martin for OBJ. Then passed on Ramczk for Engram. Then passed on Nelson for Barkley. And this year - again - they pass on Slater for Toney.
They never fucking learn.
They took Andrew Thomas and acted like the job was done.
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
Wilson has more talent in his busted finger than Daniel Jones has in his whole body. Wilson would be a massive upgrade at the position.
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
I don’t get putting Eli into the discussion. Jones should not ever be compared to Eli in any capacity. Jones misses throws, misses open WR’s and turns the ball over too much. Enough.
Reluctantly, I agree. I'm not seeing progress. Too few outstanding plays, too many turnovers. Tonight he had Barkley, Toney, Slayton, Golladay, Engram and Randolph, and his TD pass was to Andrew Thomas. It's not all on the O line.
Let him finish his rookie deal, decline the option, bring in competition but do not force another QB pick.
Pretty much where I’m at. He’ll likely be our QB next year, but bring in somebody to challenge him, and if someone appealing is available in the draft, take him.
He's just so bad to watch. If his first read is open, he is perfectly good. After that it's a disaster. No feel in the pocket, constant panic, no improvisational ability. Just a total robot.
Watch a guy like Heinike for example. He's not going to be a great QB, but he knows how to play. He knows how to move. He finds guys when the play breaks down. Maybe it's partially aesthetic, but I'd so much rather watch a guy like that than a guy like Jones
It doesn't have to be a first round pick. It can be a day 3 pick.
I would pick Corral, but that's not even the point. The point is there is no economic reason to keep Jones once he is deemed a lost cause. Trade him for whatever you can get and get started on another quarterback ASAP.
That he was a reach at #6 overall. It was one of the main news stories after the draft league-wide. But not only that— 2019 was the weakest QB class of the 4 drafts that Gettleman has conducted. It was Murray at #1 and then slim pickings after that. Gettleman definitely felt pressure to take a QB in that draft because 2018 showed the Eli was much closer to the end than they originally thought. I’m not surprised Jones has ended up looking the way he has. The #6 pick doesn’t always mean the same thing every player. He’s played exactly how I would expect a FORCED reach of a #6 pick in one of the weaker QB classes we’ve seen in some time.
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
That he was a reach at #6 overall. It was one of the main news stories after the draft league-wide. But not only that— 2019 was the weakest QB class of the 4 drafts that Gettleman has conducted. It was Murray at #1 and then slim pickings after that. Gettleman definitely felt pressure to take a QB in that draft because 2018 showed the Eli was much closer to the end than they originally thought. I’m not surprised Jones has ended up looking the way he has. The #6 pick doesn’t always mean the same thing every player. He’s played exactly how I would expect a FORCED reach of a #6 pick in one of the weaker QB classes we’ve seen in some time.
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
We did have Phil Simms; his college stats were bad (32 touchdowns, 45 interceptions, completion percentage below 50%). His record wasn’t anything to write home about either; he never played in a bowl game.
He just doesn't have it between the ears to play football. The Giants just think they are way smarter and better at their jobs than they are and assume they could take a physical talent that was "smart" and make a mobile Eli Manning out of him.
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
He drafted him based on what he looks like. Jones probably had a good handshake and called him "sir". If Jones had tattoos or red hair or long hair or was funny looking in some way, there is no chance he's the pick
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
I don’t get putting Eli into the discussion. Jones should not ever be compared to Eli in any capacity. Jones misses throws, misses open WR’s and turns the ball over too much. Enough.
I recall most people wanting to move on from Eli.
Not comparing Jones to Eli. But even Eli couldn’t overcome such bad line play. I m in on Jones for next year
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
He drafted him based on what he looks like. Jones probably had a good handshake and called him "sir". If Jones had tattoos or red hair or long hair or was funny looking in some way, there is no chance he's the pick
Did you know that baseball scouts (and maybe football too) back in the olden days used to have a term known as “a good face”, where they basically believed if a guy was handsome it meant that he was going to be a great player? They’d literally include “good face” as one of their scouting notes. My buddy and I always joke about stuff like that probably being the extent of DG’s player evaluation process.
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
Hahahaha no I actually hadn’t seen that lol — thats also similar to the “good face” thing that I just mentioned in my other post 30 seconds ago
Seriously. Maybe he could grow to be better and overcome his deficiencies maybe not. But, no one is succeeding in this situation. You see Hernandez get rag dolled over and over? He’s one of our actual starters. We want him in there apparently. Solder gets blown back every pass play. OL that are JAG would be a huge step up,
Then you get Golladay miss his block to spring KT to have a chance. EE is invisible at best. Rudolph made his 1 play and then looked gimpy.
We can’t block and we can’t run the ball, so why would a D give a F about play action. Play action to who? Saquon tippy taps? Oh no, might burn us for 3 yards. So they can play the run on the way to the QB.
But don’t worry, new QB, rest assured you’ll always be playing from behind because we also can’t rush the passer at all.
But it’s all good, we got “4 hooks” Garrett calling this O.
So Dan Jones, Dan Marino, or Dan Fouts. Who gives a shit?
I like Danny Jones but it has become painfully obvious that he is not
The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
Hahahaha no I actually hadn’t seen that lol — thats also similar to the “good face” thing that I just mentioned in my other post 30 seconds ago
Oh man I love that face thing too!
I mean the funny thing is that like I say the cut of his jib thing to like mock someone's analytical process. But I'd have more respect for him saying that than "full bloom love" DG is so out of touch he doesn't even realize how stupid he looks so often. I guess the Giants don't either. He's found the right employer at least, you can give that to him
I'm just not willing to pay him a second contract to find out for certain. He best asset may be his rookie deal, right now. A second deal will further paralyze this offense and team. You cut your losses after next year.
He’s about to get his third OC in 3 seasons. And the one he has now is terrible. He still has little time to throw. Plus, going into next season, who are you going to get to replace him. This is not a good QB draft. And are you really going to give up 2 first rounders for a declining Russell Wilson? Especially with the cap hit he would bring. I say get rid d of the coaches and the GM, seriously rebuild the OL, and stay with him one more year.
He looks flat out cooked in the pocket. Most telling play was not seeing Golliday wide open inside the 5 yard line.
The Giants need to move on from not only Jones but a lot of other players.
Barkley, Hernandez,Slayton,Solder(please retire),Engram,Carter,Ximines,Lawrence (way overrated by Giant fans), Bradberry and Crowder.
I can’t stand the coaching staff a bunch of clowns.The final series of the first half was Looney Tunes.
The front office from the owners,GM, scouting dept and pro personnel dept are just plain awful.
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.
It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.
He's a good duke athlete. He is not a QB. He lacks that instinct to see the field and decision making . Not to mention arm. He is a good athlete that can run fast. He is a good back up to bring in for gadget plays and line him up like wide out ; like a cordell stewart.
Not because I necessarily think he is a franchise QB, but I have seen enough good things to think maybe with a better cast he could be a guy you want to build around. Last night, was just plain awful and it really shakes the confidence. He does lock on receivers (although because of that story line in every game that is done the producers are looking for open guys to whisper into the analysts head—every guy misses open guys), he panicks, he can be inaccurate at times, and just isn’t consistent enough to win.
We can't afford to pay him and rebuild AGAIN. so whether you love him or hate him we missed our rebuild window.
This is a huge part of the point, IMO.
Whether you believe that DJ is part of the problem or a victim of the problem, we only have one moderately inexpensive year left with him. After that, the 5th year option increases his cap cost significantly, and then a 2nd contract beyond that will be even more expensive.
Even if you believe that he's being held back by a bad roster (and/or coaching staff), that still requires another (or continued) rebuilding effort. And as a function of finances alone, that rebuild will have more flexibility with an inexpensive contract at the QB position.
I personally think DJ has shown flashes of strong play, and has also displayed plenty of inconsistency of his own. The fact that - at best - we don't know whether he can be a franchise QB yet with only a year and a half left on his baseline rookie contract makes it very difficult to commit to him for another contract.
I wouldn't even pick up the 5th year option, TBH. I'd let him play out next year, and if he somehow blossoms with a hopefully improved OL and a more dynamic playcaller, then I'd work on re-signing him. And if he doesn't show significant improvement by the end of year 4, I'd let him walk.
But in terms of planting my flag - I think DJ is journeyman level. A clean-shaven Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Jones can stay on another year based on low contract cost but no further $ commitments. Shop him to see if any decent interest, but if not then keep him for 2022.
Scout the QBs in the draft but don't shop in any desperation. Can always add a relatively cheap veteran or just keep Glennon I guess.
If no QBs in 2022 draft work, consider trading down again in first round to set up 2023 for a guy...
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.
Zach Wilson wasn't a reach. he may not work out but he has elite arm talent. Daniel Jones was a reach.
The $20M+ option should be completely off the table.
That he was a reach at #6 overall. It was one of the main news stories after the draft league-wide. But not only that— 2019 was the weakest QB class of the 4 drafts that Gettleman has conducted. It was Murray at #1 and then slim pickings after that. Gettleman definitely felt pressure to take a QB in that draft because 2018 showed the Eli was much closer to the end than they originally thought. I’m not surprised Jones has ended up looking the way he has. The #6 pick doesn’t always mean the same thing every player. He’s played exactly how I would expect a FORCED reach of a #6 pick in one of the weaker QB classes we’ve seen in some time.
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
We did have Phil Simms; his college stats were bad (32 touchdowns, 45 interceptions, completion percentage below 50%). His record wasn’t anything to write home about either; he never played in a bowl game.
Simms's collegiate stats were definitely not fantastic, but you also have to adjust for the era.
In 1978, there were only three QBs in all of D-I football that had a completion percentage above 60%. Simms was at 53.2% in his senior season, which would have placed him just outside the top 20 if Morehead was in D-IA (and that was their first year in D-IAA). For comparison, Joe Montana was at 54.2% in 1978 (also just outside the top 20).
Only two D-I QBs even threw for 20+ TDs in 1978. Simms had 6 passing TDs (11 INTs); Montana had 10 passing TDs (9 INTs). Like Montana, Simms played in a run-first offense in college. And in that era, run-first really meant run the ball on every play unless you have no choice but to pass.
Contrast that with Daniel Jones:
In 2018, there were four QBs who topped 70% completion rate. Jones was far outside the top 20 at 60.5%. Twelve QBs threw 30+ passing TDs. Jones, again, was far outside the top 20 at 22 passing TDs in his senior year. Nine QBs had passer ratings of 160 or better. Jones was at 131.7.
Jones also added 319 yards rushing (104 attempts, 3.1 ypc), but Kyler Murray had over 1,000 (140 attempts, 7.2 ypc).
Jones was, much like he still is, a flawed QB who had some positive skills but not enough to help a mediocre team overcome their own deficiencies. He was not especially dynamic or prolific - he only had three games in his senior season where he threw for more than 300 yards (and five games where he threw for less than 200). He had five games where he threw for 3+ TDs; six games where he threw for 1 or fewer TDs (two games he had zero passing TDs).
For those who point to Jones's rookie year as the glimmer of hope, I think you have to also acknowledge the likelihood that that season was an outlier. His college stats look a lot like his stats last season and this one. This may very well be who he is as a QB.
And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time
And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time
He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I've been behind DJ for three years
He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.
He isn't developing when the bullets are flying, and is smart enough to know it himself.
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.
There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.
It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.
There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.
It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.
I know you are being facetious, but if he had superhuman peripheral vision, we would see the results, and he wouldn't be missing better opportunities to open receivers. If he had superhuman anything, we would see it on the field.
The answer to your question, why he narrows the scope, is Daniel Jones is lost. It all happens too quickly and he can't process and he often, too often, makes poor choices and mistakes. You can't hide a QB with this trait in 2021. The QB has to win the game in today's NFL. He can't just be a good soldier robot - which seems to be the Giants mantra. Expect more of the same until the Giants come to the conclusion they will need a high wire aerial artist, not a lunch bucket manager.
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.
I agree with a QB in Rd 2, but I don't like Corral. He strikes me as Baker-lite, and I don't like the real Baker. I expect at our pick in rd 2 there will be one of Pickett/Howell/Ridder/the Western Kentucky guy, I'd take one of them with Pickett as my preference. Spend the 2 #1 picks on OL/OL or OL/DL.
Let Jones on his cheap deal battle it out with the rookie for a year.
Not because I necessarily think he is a franchise QB, but I have seen enough good things to think maybe with a better cast he could be a guy you want to build around. Last night, was just plain awful and it really shakes the confidence. He does lock on receivers (although because of that story line in every game that is done the producers are looking for open guys to whisper into the analysts head—every guy misses open guys), he panicks, he can be inaccurate at times, and just isn’t consistent enough to win.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
That's how a checkdown is supposed to work, but NFL history is littered with QB's who go to it almost immediately. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Or Alex Smith, who wasn't too bad a QB.
I'm waiting for the all-22 to be available on Game Pass to see what was open last night. I've seen enough to know that all of the posturing by Jones defenders about Garrett only running short routes is not accurate.
With this group Phil Simms never would have made it through
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
RE: With this group Phil Simms never would have made it through
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
Phil Simms didn't get drafted in the salary cap era.
Wake up and adjust.
Phil Simms was drafted 40 years before Daniel Jones
...because he's easy to root for and the last thing I want to do is root for a franchise with a refurbished or retread QB, working under the assumption we don't draft a new QB.
If I have to watch Tyrod Taylor QB the Giants 16 games, there's just ZERO interest there.
Get a GM, and at the very least, an offense that fits the modern day NFL.
RE: Phil Simms was drafted 40 years before Daniel Jones
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
We are are not losing because we kept changing things with the GM, coaches or QB. They were all basically here for the last several years.
We are not losing because of field position.
We are also not losing because we don't have Jabrill Peppers.
We are losing because we do not score points. Scoring points requires a good passing game and an offensive line that can support that function. That is the NFL today and for the foreseeable future.
Grabbing two dominant front 7 players for the Defense would be fine. The defense can most certainly use more talent. But until you see a higher quality QB and OL on the field, the Giants will not be good again. No matter how dominant you think your defense is...
And to be clear, my post last night was sarcasm. Honestly not sure how anyone missed that but then again, maybe people reading the post were likewise inebriated on the unkind stink of Big Blew. My doubts about Jones wavered only two or three games. My flag remains firmly planted atop the mountain of evidence that he isn’t the guy.
Trade Jones for whatever you can get.
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
Don't pick up his option, let him be the QB next year, and then move along.
Easy to move on……from Judge too
Trade Jones for whatever you can get.
I'm with you now. I think he'll be a good backup in the NFL but that's all.
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
Problem with this line of thinking. Kitchens has, according to some beats, had more influence within the offense recently. That who you’re going to promote?
Quote:
toss garrett and move on.
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
Problem with this line of thinking. Kitchens has, according to some beats, had more influence within the offense recently. That who you’re going to promote?
since your not going to replace jones this year, there are plenty of games left to try it out... so yeah. its easier to change play calling duties than to find a QB
Freddy Kitchens made Baker Mayfield look like a great qb, time to give him a shot
This would be a start to see if we're QB shopping next year.
This is what should have been done after 2017...stay with Eli (or a FA like Bridgewater), and build the lines, so you had a real rebuild, and THEN draft a QB. RB's and QB's are luxuries that are wasted when your lines stink. Yes, you're going to lose, but at least there would be some hope, unlike this mess.
That requires real patience, and the ability to draft well, something that is difficult to do, and apparently impossible for the Giants FO. We won't see results until the basic problems are fixed...so keep Jones while he's cheap, and then get a FA while a REAL rebuild is done.
His career is a perfect storm of ineptitude. Some of it out of his control but much of it has been within his control and he just doesn’t make enough plays to win football games.
He’s shot here.
He had 4 really good games under Shurmur, the other 8 were mediocre to flat out bad. Not surprising for a rookie, but he hasn’t progressed at all. In fact, he’s regressed, but we need to stop making too much of his first year. It wasn’t as good as some make it out to be.
Great kid, hard worker, good representative for the franchise, just not good enough at QB.
This is what should have been done after 2017...stay with Eli (or a FA like Bridgewater), and build the lines, so you had a real rebuild, and THEN draft a QB. RB's and QB's are luxuries that are wasted when your lines stink. Yes, you're going to lose, but at least there would be some hope, unlike this mess.
That requires real patience, and the ability to draft well, something that is difficult to do, and apparently impossible for the Giants FO. We won't see results until the basic problems are fixed...so keep Jones while he's cheap, and then get a FA while a REAL rebuild is done.
Agree...it will be painful. But the team is a few years away now. Build out the lines and then let go of Jones after next year. They have no money next year.
I don't really see what they are going to do with Barkley next year. It's a distraction. He plays every snap when he is clearly banged up. The coaching staff doesn't know what to do with him.
What a goddamn waste of time.
I’m watching what he’s checking down to and the targets he’s missing. Im watching him throw directly into a DT’s stomach. I’m watching other QB’s in the league do more with less.
And on queue, I’m watching him not read an underneath coverage LB, resulting in another INT.
There is no stay the course. In one year they have to decide to pay him like a free agent to be or not. They used up their free time to build it up. After next season you have to commit or not. There's not much more time for hopes and dreams.
It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
He just isn't the answer. He panics under pressure, telegraphs throws, misses easy completions, and quite honestly doesn't have the special arm talent to make up for it.
His pocket movement is also awful. Some plays he steps up into pressure, other plays he's a sitting duck when he should be climbing the pocket, and others he flees the pocket immediately which is usually a bad sign as he is very poor on the run for the most part.
In next years draft, I don't really see a QB that stands out so not sure if this is the year to move on. Suck it up with him another year and probably end up picking top 5 again anyway where they 2023 class will hopefully be better.
This is not all on the coordinators, there were plays on the field that Jones was not capable of making, not due to physical limitations, but due to panic and inability to rapidly see the field.
The situation always seems bigger than Jones whereas for good players, they are bigger than the situation.
It makes me sick to say this because it means 3-4 more years of rebuilding.
If the Giants do decide to move on from Jones, clean house and get a new GM and coaching staff.
This is not all on the coordinators, there were plays on the field that Jones was not capable of making, not due to physical limitations, but due to panic and inability to rapidly see the field.
The situation always seems bigger than Jones whereas for good players, they are bigger than the situation.
Good post. +1
He’ll likely live on in infamy along with DG on BBI forever.
Jones needs to stay because of the 2022 cap. Yeah, the team is going to suck, but if we can get 2 or more decent Offensive linemen in the draft, it will make things much better in 2023 and beyond when cap room goes up. Nothing can be done about next year, other than developing rookies.
It makes me sick to say this because it means 3-4 more years of rebuilding.
If the Giants do decide to move on from Jones, clean house and get a new GM and coaching staff.
So maybe what you do is draft all OL this year, and fix QB next
You're lying to yourself.
He is not good. He can have a good play, a good game, but he is limited in so many ways. Arm talent, mental makeup, instincts. he is not a starting QB in this league and never will be,
I don't see how you can evaluate him with this disaster in front of him.
Sorry to all of you looking to move on, but the Giants will not dump him after this year, nor draft one of these projects at QB.
I don't see how you can evaluate him with this disaster in front of him.
Sorry to all of you looking to move on, but the Giants will not dump him after this year, nor draft one of these projects at QB.
haha.. you want to spend a decade on this guy? You're nuts.
I'm pretty sure if they brought in a 2nd or 3rd round QB, Jones would lose the job.
I don't give Jones $20M. No way, no how. Nobody's giving him that money. He can be had for a $3M backup deal.
I’m not arguing or picking a fight here. Serious question
What have you seen outside of a throw or 2 every few weeks, or an RPO run where he takes off, that makes you believe he can be a very good QB?
I just don’t see it. It’s terrible decision making, bad ball placement and a lack of field vision, week in and week out. There are moments where you think, ‘damn. That was nice’. But consistency is not one of his strong suits.
Is there a QB who can win here, with this oline? I doubt it. But he doesn’t make me think he can elevate the level of his own play and def not his team, to put them on his back, like the top tier QB’s do in the league
So, I’m curious what you see
Not the kid from Liberty, he is not ready to be an NFL QB. I would prefer Wilson or Watson (if legal issues are cleared up).
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
Really?
That said, I’d fix the OL before I worried about getting another QB.
The Giants have had a dysfunctional OL since 2013. This mess started when they passed up Martin for OBJ. Then passed on Ramczk for Engram. Then passed on Nelson for Barkley. And this year - again - they pass on Slater for Toney.
They never fucking learn.
They took Andrew Thomas and acted like the job was done.
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
Wilson has more talent in his busted finger than Daniel Jones has in his whole body. Wilson would be a massive upgrade at the position.
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
I don’t get putting Eli into the discussion. Jones should not ever be compared to Eli in any capacity. Jones misses throws, misses open WR’s and turns the ball over too much. Enough.
I recall most people wanting to move on from Eli.
Pretty much where I’m at. He’ll likely be our QB next year, but bring in somebody to challenge him, and if someone appealing is available in the draft, take him.
A simple, no risk scenario:
1. Trade Jones for a pick in any round
2. Use that pick to select a QB
3. Make that QB your starter
An unknown quantity on a full rookie deal is better than a poor known quantity in the last year of his.
Underscore: THERE IS NO VIABLE REASON FOR JONES TO ENTER 2022 AS THE STARTING QUARTERBACK.
A simple, no risk scenario:
1. Trade Jones for a pick in any round
2. Use that pick to select a QB
3. Make that QB your starter
An unknown quantity on a full rookie deal is better than a poor known quantity in the last year of his.
Underscore: THERE IS NO VIABLE REASON FOR JONES TO ENTER 2022 AS THE STARTING QUARTERBACK.
This. Take Corral and develop him. He’s got the tools and there are people in the league are who very high on him.
Watch a guy like Heinike for example. He's not going to be a great QB, but he knows how to play. He knows how to move. He finds guys when the play breaks down. Maybe it's partially aesthetic, but I'd so much rather watch a guy like that than a guy like Jones
I would pick Corral, but that's not even the point. The point is there is no economic reason to keep Jones once he is deemed a lost cause. Trade him for whatever you can get and get started on another quarterback ASAP.
Quote:
Letting him finish his rookie deal is unacceptable. No one should be "let" anything.
A simple, no risk scenario:
1. Trade Jones for a pick in any round
2. Use that pick to select a QB
3. Make that QB your starter
An unknown quantity on a full rookie deal is better than a poor known quantity in the last year of his.
Underscore: THERE IS NO VIABLE REASON FOR JONES TO ENTER 2022 AS THE STARTING QUARTERBACK.
This. Take Corral and develop him. He’s got the tools and there are people in the league are who very high on him.
Corral looked like absolute dogshit in his biggest game of the year. Not sold at all on him.
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
Hahaha!!!
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
We did have Phil Simms; his college stats were bad (32 touchdowns, 45 interceptions, completion percentage below 50%). His record wasn’t anything to write home about either; he never played in a bowl game.
He drafted him based on what he looks like. Jones probably had a good handshake and called him "sir". If Jones had tattoos or red hair or long hair or was funny looking in some way, there is no chance he's the pick
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
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Tonight
But every freaking pass he has people in his face, at his arm, at his feet, contrast that to the clean pocket Brady had all night
People who don’t like Jones hold him responsible for this disgraceful offense, but gave Eli a pass for the same pathetic offense saying the Giants ruin the last part of his career
Jones look beaten tonight. It must be very discouraging to play behind that line
I want him back next year, really don’t want a 30+ quarterback in Wilson
I don’t get putting Eli into the discussion. Jones should not ever be compared to Eli in any capacity. Jones misses throws, misses open WR’s and turns the ball over too much. Enough.
I recall most people wanting to move on from Eli.
Not comparing Jones to Eli. But even Eli couldn’t overcome such bad line play. I m in on Jones for next year
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The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
He drafted him based on what he looks like. Jones probably had a good handshake and called him "sir". If Jones had tattoos or red hair or long hair or was funny looking in some way, there is no chance he's the pick
Did you know that baseball scouts (and maybe football too) back in the olden days used to have a term known as “a good face”, where they basically believed if a guy was handsome it meant that he was going to be a great player? They’d literally include “good face” as one of their scouting notes. My buddy and I always joke about stuff like that probably being the extent of DG’s player evaluation process.
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The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
Hahahaha no I actually hadn’t seen that lol — thats also similar to the “good face” thing that I just mentioned in my other post 30 seconds ago
Seriously. Maybe he could grow to be better and overcome his deficiencies maybe not. But, no one is succeeding in this situation. You see Hernandez get rag dolled over and over? He’s one of our actual starters. We want him in there apparently. Solder gets blown back every pass play. OL that are JAG would be a huge step up,
Then you get Golladay miss his block to spring KT to have a chance. EE is invisible at best. Rudolph made his 1 play and then looked gimpy.
We can’t block and we can’t run the ball, so why would a D give a F about play action. Play action to who? Saquon tippy taps? Oh no, might burn us for 3 yards. So they can play the run on the way to the QB.
But don’t worry, new QB, rest assured you’ll always be playing from behind because we also can’t rush the passer at all.
But it’s all good, we got “4 hooks” Garrett calling this O.
So Dan Jones, Dan Marino, or Dan Fouts. Who gives a shit?
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In comment 15463077 Leg of Theismann said:
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The reason DG said he drafted him: because he saw an “NFL qwattahback “ at the “seen-ya” bowl. I still don’t understand what that means nor why DG felt above providing any further explanation of that comment. He might as well have just said “I just really liked the cut if his jib”
I don't know if you've seen me say this but I've been saying that about the way the Giants scout often the "cut of his jib" lol
Hahahaha no I actually hadn’t seen that lol — thats also similar to the “good face” thing that I just mentioned in my other post 30 seconds ago
Oh man I love that face thing too!
I mean the funny thing is that like I say the cut of his jib thing to like mock someone's analytical process. But I'd have more respect for him saying that than "full bloom love" DG is so out of touch he doesn't even realize how stupid he looks so often. I guess the Giants don't either. He's found the right employer at least, you can give that to him
Don't pick up his option, let him be the QB next year, and then move along.
The Giants need to move on from not only Jones but a lot of other players.
Barkley, Hernandez,Slayton,Solder(please retire),Engram,Carter,Ximines,Lawrence (way overrated by Giant fans), Bradberry and Crowder.
I can’t stand the coaching staff a bunch of clowns.The final series of the first half was Looney Tunes.
The front office from the owners,GM, scouting dept and pro personnel dept are just plain awful.
It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.
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It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.
No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.
He's a good duke athlete. He is not a QB. He lacks that instinct to see the field and decision making . Not to mention arm. He is a good athlete that can run fast. He is a good back up to bring in for gadget plays and line him up like wide out ; like a cordell stewart.
He's simply not the guy.
This is a huge part of the point, IMO.
Whether you believe that DJ is part of the problem or a victim of the problem, we only have one moderately inexpensive year left with him. After that, the 5th year option increases his cap cost significantly, and then a 2nd contract beyond that will be even more expensive.
Even if you believe that he's being held back by a bad roster (and/or coaching staff), that still requires another (or continued) rebuilding effort. And as a function of finances alone, that rebuild will have more flexibility with an inexpensive contract at the QB position.
I personally think DJ has shown flashes of strong play, and has also displayed plenty of inconsistency of his own. The fact that - at best - we don't know whether he can be a franchise QB yet with only a year and a half left on his baseline rookie contract makes it very difficult to commit to him for another contract.
I wouldn't even pick up the 5th year option, TBH. I'd let him play out next year, and if he somehow blossoms with a hopefully improved OL and a more dynamic playcaller, then I'd work on re-signing him. And if he doesn't show significant improvement by the end of year 4, I'd let him walk.
But in terms of planting my flag - I think DJ is journeyman level. A clean-shaven Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Scout the QBs in the draft but don't shop in any desperation. Can always add a relatively cheap veteran or just keep Glennon I guess.
If no QBs in 2022 draft work, consider trading down again in first round to set up 2023 for a guy...
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.
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Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.
Zach Wilson wasn't a reach. he may not work out but he has elite arm talent. Daniel Jones was a reach.
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That he was a reach at #6 overall. It was one of the main news stories after the draft league-wide. But not only that— 2019 was the weakest QB class of the 4 drafts that Gettleman has conducted. It was Murray at #1 and then slim pickings after that. Gettleman definitely felt pressure to take a QB in that draft because 2018 showed the Eli was much closer to the end than they originally thought. I’m not surprised Jones has ended up looking the way he has. The #6 pick doesn’t always mean the same thing every player. He’s played exactly how I would expect a FORCED reach of a #6 pick in one of the weaker QB classes we’ve seen in some time.
I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.
To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?
We did have Phil Simms; his college stats were bad (32 touchdowns, 45 interceptions, completion percentage below 50%). His record wasn’t anything to write home about either; he never played in a bowl game.
Simms's collegiate stats were definitely not fantastic, but you also have to adjust for the era.
In 1978, there were only three QBs in all of D-I football that had a completion percentage above 60%. Simms was at 53.2% in his senior season, which would have placed him just outside the top 20 if Morehead was in D-IA (and that was their first year in D-IAA). For comparison, Joe Montana was at 54.2% in 1978 (also just outside the top 20).
Only two D-I QBs even threw for 20+ TDs in 1978. Simms had 6 passing TDs (11 INTs); Montana had 10 passing TDs (9 INTs). Like Montana, Simms played in a run-first offense in college. And in that era, run-first really meant run the ball on every play unless you have no choice but to pass.
Contrast that with Daniel Jones:
In 2018, there were four QBs who topped 70% completion rate. Jones was far outside the top 20 at 60.5%. Twelve QBs threw 30+ passing TDs. Jones, again, was far outside the top 20 at 22 passing TDs in his senior year. Nine QBs had passer ratings of 160 or better. Jones was at 131.7.
Jones also added 319 yards rushing (104 attempts, 3.1 ypc), but Kyler Murray had over 1,000 (140 attempts, 7.2 ypc).
Jones was, much like he still is, a flawed QB who had some positive skills but not enough to help a mediocre team overcome their own deficiencies. He was not especially dynamic or prolific - he only had three games in his senior season where he threw for more than 300 yards (and five games where he threw for less than 200). He had five games where he threw for 3+ TDs; six games where he threw for 1 or fewer TDs (two games he had zero passing TDs).
For those who point to Jones's rookie year as the glimmer of hope, I think you have to also acknowledge the likelihood that that season was an outlier. His college stats look a lot like his stats last season and this one. This may very well be who he is as a QB.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time
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And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.
That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time
He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
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He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.
More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.
He isn't developing when the bullets are flying, and is smart enough to know it himself.
hence the frazzle you see...
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He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
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Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.
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In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:
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He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.
There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.
It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.
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In comment 15463527 Section331 said:
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In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:
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He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.
That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.
There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.
It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.
I know you are being facetious, but if he had superhuman peripheral vision, we would see the results, and he wouldn't be missing better opportunities to open receivers. If he had superhuman anything, we would see it on the field.
The answer to your question, why he narrows the scope, is Daniel Jones is lost. It all happens too quickly and he can't process and he often, too often, makes poor choices and mistakes. You can't hide a QB with this trait in 2021. The QB has to win the game in today's NFL. He can't just be a good soldier robot - which seems to be the Giants mantra. Expect more of the same until the Giants come to the conclusion they will need a high wire aerial artist, not a lunch bucket manager.
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In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:
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Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?
Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.
Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.
I agree with a QB in Rd 2, but I don't like Corral. He strikes me as Baker-lite, and I don't like the real Baker. I expect at our pick in rd 2 there will be one of Pickett/Howell/Ridder/the Western Kentucky guy, I'd take one of them with Pickett as my preference. Spend the 2 #1 picks on OL/OL or OL/DL.
Let Jones on his cheap deal battle it out with the rookie for a year.
Im not sure I could have said this better.
That's how a checkdown is supposed to work, but NFL history is littered with QB's who go to it almost immediately. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Or Alex Smith, who wasn't too bad a QB.
I'm waiting for the all-22 to be available on Game Pass to see what was open last night. I've seen enough to know that all of the posturing by Jones defenders about Garrett only running short routes is not accurate.
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
Phil Simms didn't get drafted in the salary cap era.
Wake up and adjust.
We are the worst team in the division.
We have the worst QB in the division right now.
Washington would not trade us Taylor Heinicke
for Daniel Jones.
We are one of the worst teams in the sport.
If anyone ever defends the Barkley pick again they should be tarred and feathered. Site ownership should tag their handles (Idiot)
If I have to watch Tyrod Taylor QB the Giants 16 games, there's just ZERO interest there.
Get a GM, and at the very least, an offense that fits the modern day NFL.
Geez you put it that way and I feel like this guy...
I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.
You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.
Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.
The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.
Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.
I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.
We are are not losing because we kept changing things with the GM, coaches or QB. They were all basically here for the last several years.
We are not losing because of field position.
We are also not losing because we don't have Jabrill Peppers.
We are losing because we do not score points. Scoring points requires a good passing game and an offensive line that can support that function. That is the NFL today and for the foreseeable future.
Grabbing two dominant front 7 players for the Defense would be fine. The defense can most certainly use more talent. But until you see a higher quality QB and OL on the field, the Giants will not be good again. No matter how dominant you think your defense is...