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Daniel Jones - Plant Your Flag

Saos1n : 11/22/2021 10:30 pm
Thread make you mad? Move along. Don’t comment

Plant your flag. Stick with him or move on? And don’t say ‘move on to who?’ Doesn’t matter. Draft, FA or trade.

Plant your flag.
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RE: He's not nearly as bad  
Matt M. : 11/23/2021 2:14 am : link
In comment 15462530 Mook80 said:
Quote:
as this franchise makes him look but I can confidently say he's not the guy for this franchise.

Don't pick up his option, let him be the QB next year, and then move along.
This is how I feel.
I do believe he would look a lot better with a good OL  
Matt M. : 11/23/2021 2:18 am : link
I'm just not willing to pay him a second contract to find out for certain. He best asset may be his rookie deal, right now. A second deal will further paralyze this offense and team. You cut your losses after next year.
......  
Route 9 : 11/23/2021 3:49 am : link
People still think that Jones is going to get the Giants somewhere? Put your head down and just admit you were wrong and move about your day
......  
Route 9 : 11/23/2021 3:50 am : link
Daniel Jones and Dan Marino? LOL LOL
I still don’t know  
jeff57 : 11/23/2021 4:58 am : link
He’s about to get his third OC in 3 seasons. And the one he has now is terrible. He still has little time to throw. Plus, going into next season, who are you going to get to replace him. This is not a good QB draft. And are you really going to give up 2 first rounders for a declining Russell Wilson? Especially with the cap hit he would bring. I say get rid d of the coaches and the GM, seriously rebuild the OL, and stay with him one more year.
Looks like he has David Carr syndrome  
Rick in Dallas : 11/23/2021 5:03 am : link
He looks flat out cooked in the pocket. Most telling play was not seeing Golliday wide open inside the 5 yard line.
The Giants need to move on from not only Jones but a lot of other players.
Barkley, Hernandez,Slayton,Solder(please retire),Engram,Carter,Ximines,Lawrence (way overrated by Giant fans), Bradberry and Crowder.
I can’t stand the coaching staff a bunch of clowns.The final series of the first half was Looney Tunes.
The front office from the owners,GM, scouting dept and pro personnel dept are just plain awful.
Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
FatHeadTommy : 11/23/2021 5:15 am : link
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.
RE: RE: Stay the course!  
Debaser : 11/23/2021 5:35 am : link
Quote:


It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.


No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.
RE: RE: RE: Stay the course!  
Debaser : 11/23/2021 5:38 am : link
In comment 15463292 Debaser said:
Quote:


Quote:




It's also insulting to say he's gonna be just as good as Eli. He never was as good as Eli and he wont magically be that. He is not on the same talent level.



No kidding i remember telling my brother after a game when Eli played great If he weren't Peyton's brother people would think he was much better.


He's a good duke athlete. He is not a QB. He lacks that instinct to see the field and decision making . Not to mention arm. He is a good athlete that can run fast. He is a good back up to bring in for gadget plays and line him up like wide out ; like a cordell stewart.
I've seen enough.  
JohninSC : 11/23/2021 7:56 am : link
Pass.

He's simply not the guy.
I have defended Jones  
Essex : 11/23/2021 8:08 am : link
Not because I necessarily think he is a franchise QB, but I have seen enough good things to think maybe with a better cast he could be a guy you want to build around. Last night, was just plain awful and it really shakes the confidence. He does lock on receivers (although because of that story line in every game that is done the producers are looking for open guys to whisper into the analysts head—every guy misses open guys), he panicks, he can be inaccurate at times, and just isn’t consistent enough to win.
RE: Move on anyway  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2021 8:10 am : link
In comment 15462536 BigBlueJ said:
Quote:
We can't afford to pay him and rebuild AGAIN. so whether you love him or hate him we missed our rebuild window.

This is a huge part of the point, IMO.

Whether you believe that DJ is part of the problem or a victim of the problem, we only have one moderately inexpensive year left with him. After that, the 5th year option increases his cap cost significantly, and then a 2nd contract beyond that will be even more expensive.

Even if you believe that he's being held back by a bad roster (and/or coaching staff), that still requires another (or continued) rebuilding effort. And as a function of finances alone, that rebuild will have more flexibility with an inexpensive contract at the QB position.

I personally think DJ has shown flashes of strong play, and has also displayed plenty of inconsistency of his own. The fact that - at best - we don't know whether he can be a franchise QB yet with only a year and a half left on his baseline rookie contract makes it very difficult to commit to him for another contract.

I wouldn't even pick up the 5th year option, TBH. I'd let him play out next year, and if he somehow blossoms with a hopefully improved OL and a more dynamic playcaller, then I'd work on re-signing him. And if he doesn't show significant improvement by the end of year 4, I'd let him walk.

But in terms of planting my flag - I think DJ is journeyman level. A clean-shaven Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Since it seems even some of the  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 8:16 am : link
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again
Agree with the above comments Dunk  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 8:20 am : link
Jones can stay on another year based on low contract cost but no further $ commitments. Shop him to see if any decent interest, but if not then keep him for 2022.

Scout the QBs in the draft but don't shop in any desperation. Can always add a relatively cheap veteran or just keep Glennon I guess.

If no QBs in 2022 draft work, consider trading down again in first round to set up 2023 for a guy...
RE: Since it seems even some of the  
Essex : 11/23/2021 8:29 am : link
In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again

What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.
RE: RE: Since it seems even some of the  
Producer : 11/23/2021 8:30 am : link
In comment 15463490 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again


What Gatorade Dunk is absolutely the plan unless you have a strong conviction one of the guys in the draft is a potential top 10QB in this league. Don’t be like the Jets and reach for Zach Wilson. You have one more year to figure it out, but commit NO MONEY to Jones.


Zach Wilson wasn't a reach. he may not work out but he has elite arm talent. Daniel Jones was a reach.
The $20M+ option should be completely off the table.  
Producer : 11/23/2021 8:33 am : link
.
You can’t truly evaluate  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 8:33 am : link
Zach Wilson until they get him done weapons and an oline, everyone knows that
RE: RE: Everyone knew when we drafted him  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15463090 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15463066 Leg of Theismann said:


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That he was a reach at #6 overall. It was one of the main news stories after the draft league-wide. But not only that— 2019 was the weakest QB class of the 4 drafts that Gettleman has conducted. It was Murray at #1 and then slim pickings after that. Gettleman definitely felt pressure to take a QB in that draft because 2018 showed the Eli was much closer to the end than they originally thought. I’m not surprised Jones has ended up looking the way he has. The #6 pick doesn’t always mean the same thing every player. He’s played exactly how I would expect a FORCED reach of a #6 pick in one of the weaker QB classes we’ve seen in some time.

I mean it’s not like he’s been absolutely dreadful— but he’s certainly not an elite franchise QB— he’s never even really shown flashes of being one that could give any hope. He’s shown flashes of being competent and serviceable, but never truly great. And at no point on his film at Duke did he ever look like one (and still had never looks like that here). He did a pretty good job at Duke *considering* the lack of talent around him there, but never once did he have any “wow” moments that would’ve indicated he had the potential to be truly great.

To this day I still do not understand how Gettleman thought Daniel Jones could go from never having been an elite QB in college (only decent) to suddenly being an elite *NFL* QB. His stats were very subpar at Duke. Supporting cast aside, when have we seen a QB with subpar college stats ever go on to having all pro stats in the NFL someday?


We did have Phil Simms; his college stats were bad (32 touchdowns, 45 interceptions, completion percentage below 50%). His record wasn’t anything to write home about either; he never played in a bowl game.

Simms's collegiate stats were definitely not fantastic, but you also have to adjust for the era.

In 1978, there were only three QBs in all of D-I football that had a completion percentage above 60%. Simms was at 53.2% in his senior season, which would have placed him just outside the top 20 if Morehead was in D-IA (and that was their first year in D-IAA). For comparison, Joe Montana was at 54.2% in 1978 (also just outside the top 20).

Only two D-I QBs even threw for 20+ TDs in 1978. Simms had 6 passing TDs (11 INTs); Montana had 10 passing TDs (9 INTs). Like Montana, Simms played in a run-first offense in college. And in that era, run-first really meant run the ball on every play unless you have no choice but to pass.

Contrast that with Daniel Jones:

In 2018, there were four QBs who topped 70% completion rate. Jones was far outside the top 20 at 60.5%. Twelve QBs threw 30+ passing TDs. Jones, again, was far outside the top 20 at 22 passing TDs in his senior year. Nine QBs had passer ratings of 160 or better. Jones was at 131.7.

Jones also added 319 yards rushing (104 attempts, 3.1 ypc), but Kyler Murray had over 1,000 (140 attempts, 7.2 ypc).

Jones was, much like he still is, a flawed QB who had some positive skills but not enough to help a mediocre team overcome their own deficiencies. He was not especially dynamic or prolific - he only had three games in his senior season where he threw for more than 300 yards (and five games where he threw for less than 200). He had five games where he threw for 3+ TDs; six games where he threw for 1 or fewer TDs (two games he had zero passing TDs).

For those who point to Jones's rookie year as the glimmer of hope, I think you have to also acknowledge the likelihood that that season was an outlier. His college stats look a lot like his stats last season and this one. This may very well be who he is as a QB.
I've been behind DJ for three years  
JFIB : 11/23/2021 8:42 am : link
And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.

That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.
RE: Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:
Quote:
He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.


That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.

That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
RE: I've been behind DJ for three years  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 8:47 am : link
In comment 15463522 JFIB said:
Quote:
And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.

That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.


Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time
RE: RE: I've been behind DJ for three years  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 8:57 am : link
In comment 15463531 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463522 JFIB said:


Quote:


And was really confident we would see improvement in his awareness and decision making this year. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't taken his game to a higher level. He does seem to not see open receivers because he locks onto his first option. I do not see him looking off safeties or throwing his receivers open.

That being said, when the boy has time he is a much better QB. He was sacked on a 3rd and 2 in the second quarter by a 3 man rush. A three man rush for god's sake! He is not getting any support from his O-line or his OC and it's a pity.



Every QB on an NFL roster is a better QB when they have time


He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.

More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...
RE: RE: RE: I've been behind DJ for three years  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 9:00 am : link
In comment 15463550 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.

More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...


I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.
RE: Since it seems even some of the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/23/2021 9:01 am : link
In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again


Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I've been behind DJ for three years  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 9:04 am : link
In comment 15463556 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463550 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:




He had time in the red zone on first drive, and completely missed seeing a wide open Golladay heading across the middle of field.

More time is factor but doesn't account for it all...



I would take it a step further and argue that the sacks were more a product of Jones holding the ball too long than the OL breaking down. I don't remember the last time I saw a professional QB look so frazzled as Jones did in the 2nd half.


He isn't developing when the bullets are flying, and is smart enough to know it himself.

hence the frazzle you see...
RE: RE: Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
HomerJones45 : 11/23/2021 9:06 am : link
In comment 15463527 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:


Quote:


He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.



That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.

That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.
RE: RE: Since it seems even some of the  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 9:09 am : link
In comment 15463557 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again



Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.


An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.
RE: RE: RE: Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15463567 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463527 Section331 said:


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In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:


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He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.



That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.

That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.

A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.

This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.

There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.

It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
Producer : 11/23/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15463777 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15463567 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 15463527 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 15463286 FatHeadTommy said:


Quote:


He missed a wide open touchdown to Galloday, not because of line play, but because he locked on to someone else and never saw the wide open guy. He is not getting better at this. Some QB's have it and some guys don't. He doesn't. He isn't seeing the whole field.



That's it. Many Jones adherents will complain about all of the short pass routes being called, but maybe it isn't the routes, it's that Jones is choosing to go to those shorter routes? He's become a checkdown artist. Now when plays go perfectly as designed, like the wheel route to Rudolph last night, he knows where to go, but that rarely happens in the NFL, and Jones just does not do well when forced off his first read.

That is a fact, and if it hasn't changed by now, it never will.

A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.


This is correct, as far as I can see through the lens of my own football days. Jones appears to lock onto his primary receiver way too often. Either his pre-snap read sucks, and he's convinced that his primary is going to be open, or he lacks the ability to quickly adjust; I'm not sure what causes it. But it does look like he stares down the receiver he's intending to throw to the exclusion of all others. Maybe he has superhuman peripheral vision and we're all criticizing him for something that's actually a strength, but I doubt it.

There were more than a few plays last night where DJ appeared to be treating passing plays like traditional running plays: THIS IS THE GUY WHO GETS THE BALL. And if that breaks down, he scrambles and throws it away, or worse, he forces it in.

It's not inaccurate to point out that DJ has been betrayed by a terrible offensive line built by Professor Hawgmawllie. But he also isn't doing himself any favors with his lack of fluidity when a play doesn't go as designed.


I know you are being facetious, but if he had superhuman peripheral vision, we would see the results, and he wouldn't be missing better opportunities to open receivers. If he had superhuman anything, we would see it on the field.

The answer to your question, why he narrows the scope, is Daniel Jones is lost. It all happens too quickly and he can't process and he often, too often, makes poor choices and mistakes. You can't hide a QB with this trait in 2021. The QB has to win the game in today's NFL. He can't just be a good soldier robot - which seems to be the Giants mantra. Expect more of the same until the Giants come to the conclusion they will need a high wire aerial artist, not a lunch bucket manager.
RE: RE: RE: Since it seems even some of the  
PatersonPlank : 11/23/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15463580 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463557 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 15463458 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Staunchest Jones defenders have turned the corner, what’s the plan?

Personally I’d take a chance on Corral. He’s got the arm strength, eye manipulation and the attitude to be a good QB in the NFL. He’s deadly in the intermediate to short game and is the runner everyone likes to pretend Jones is.

Will he be? Tough to say for certain but I don’t think you pass on him for the uncertainty of 2023. Worst case you can do what the Cardinals did if this team is picking in the top 5 again



Honestly, I'd rather take a chance on something bold as you laid out. But, that's not in the cards for the giants.



An OL , Corral, Jermaine Johnson early round 2. Massive upgrade and if Corral is only ok and you decide you want Stroud or Young you’ll probably get a 2nd or late first for Corral unless he’s Josh Rosen bad, which I don’t see happening.


I agree with a QB in Rd 2, but I don't like Corral. He strikes me as Baker-lite, and I don't like the real Baker. I expect at our pick in rd 2 there will be one of Pickett/Howell/Ridder/the Western Kentucky guy, I'd take one of them with Pickett as my preference. Spend the 2 #1 picks on OL/OL or OL/DL.

Let Jones on his cheap deal battle it out with the rookie for a year.
RE: I have defended Jones  
dlauster : 11/23/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15463443 Essex said:
Quote:
Not because I necessarily think he is a franchise QB, but I have seen enough good things to think maybe with a better cast he could be a guy you want to build around. Last night, was just plain awful and it really shakes the confidence. He does lock on receivers (although because of that story line in every game that is done the producers are looking for open guys to whisper into the analysts head—every guy misses open guys), he panicks, he can be inaccurate at times, and just isn’t consistent enough to win.


Im not sure I could have said this better.
He ain't it  
AcesUp : 11/23/2021 10:54 am : link
But might be our best option as a bridge guy next year. I wouldn't use the 5th year option at this point though.
RE: RE: RE: Sorry Daniel you have to go.  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15463567 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
A chckdown is when you look down the field and then check down as part of your progression. Jones is not even looking and he flatly does not even look in the middle of the field. The Tampa secondary is very bad; you can' tell me Golladay and Toney weren't open multiple times past 10 yards.


That's how a checkdown is supposed to work, but NFL history is littered with QB's who go to it almost immediately. Sam Bradford comes to mind. Or Alex Smith, who wasn't too bad a QB.

I'm waiting for the all-22 to be available on Game Pass to see what was open last night. I've seen enough to know that all of the posturing by Jones defenders about Garrett only running short routes is not accurate.
With this group Phil Simms never would have made it through  
Reese's Pieces : 11/23/2021 11:49 am : link
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.

I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.

You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.

Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.

The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.

Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.

I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.

RE: With this group Phil Simms never would have made it through  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15464167 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.

I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.

You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.

Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.

The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.

Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.

I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.

Phil Simms didn't get drafted in the salary cap era.

Wake up and adjust.
Phil Simms was drafted 40 years before Daniel Jones  
Jerry in_DC : 11/23/2021 12:09 pm : link
Comparing Jones to Simms is like comparing Simms to a QB drafted in 1939.
Step on your blue fucking glasses  
Thegratefulhead : 11/23/2021 12:12 pm : link
It's over, just stop it.

We are the worst team in the division.

We have the worst QB in the division right now.

Washington would not trade us Taylor Heinicke
for Daniel Jones.

We are one of the worst teams in the sport.

If anyone ever defends the Barkley pick again they should be tarred and feathered. Site ownership should tag their handles (Idiot)


I'll plant my flag with DJ...  
BillKo : 11/23/2021 12:12 pm : link
...because he's easy to root for and the last thing I want to do is root for a franchise with a refurbished or retread QB, working under the assumption we don't draft a new QB.

If I have to watch Tyrod Taylor QB the Giants 16 games, there's just ZERO interest there.

Get a GM, and at the very least, an offense that fits the modern day NFL.
RE: Phil Simms was drafted 40 years before Daniel Jones  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15464231 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
Comparing Jones to Simms is like comparing Simms to a QB drafted in 1939.


Geez you put it that way and I feel like this guy...

How is this still a debate?  
Sean : 11/23/2021 12:43 pm : link
Do fans want to see this team win or not?
RE: With this group Phil Simms never would have made it through  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15464167 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
his first four years as a Giant. The reason that teams like the Bills and the Lions and the Jets (and again the Giants) stay on the bottom for two decades is because they lack patience. Always changing GMs, coaches and quarterbacks, the new bunch throw out all the good things the previous did and they're always starting over again rebuilding.

I think a few people have noted that the Giants O-Line is ranked 31st. Eli looked awful playing with an awful line his last two seasons.

You know he would play much better if he had at least three seconds in the pocket and he wasn't assaulted on every play.

Right now the Giants would have the 5th and 6th pick in the first round. I would grab the two most dominant front 7 defensive players. The defense when Martinez and Pepper are healthy would probably make it over the top into a good defense with good talent.

The defense of course affects the offense by keeping the offense off the field, but getting better field position for the offense, and by not making the offense always have to be coming from behind.

Jones is better with Booker than Barkley. Given a typical first down power running play between the tackles, Booker gets 4-7 yards. Barkley get stuffed for 1 or 2 yards, then on the tenth try breaks one for 30 yards. Booker gets a consistent 4 to 7 yards in that situation. Giving DJ a much easier call on second down.

I don't give up. Two top ten draft picks is a lot of offseason ammo. They could make the defense formidable again and lessen the humiliation.


We are are not losing because we kept changing things with the GM, coaches or QB. They were all basically here for the last several years.

We are not losing because of field position.

We are also not losing because we don't have Jabrill Peppers.

We are losing because we do not score points. Scoring points requires a good passing game and an offensive line that can support that function. That is the NFL today and for the foreseeable future.

Grabbing two dominant front 7 players for the Defense would be fine. The defense can most certainly use more talent. But until you see a higher quality QB and OL on the field, the Giants will not be good again. No matter how dominant you think your defense is...
I’ve sobered up from last night  
trueblueinpw : 11/23/2021 12:58 pm : link
And to be clear, my post last night was sarcasm. Honestly not sure how anyone missed that but then again, maybe people reading the post were likewise inebriated on the unkind stink of Big Blew. My doubts about Jones wavered only two or three games. My flag remains firmly planted atop the mountain of evidence that he isn’t the guy.
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