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Giants would be wise to move on from Saquon.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/22/2021 10:45 pm
It'd be lunacy to give him a second contract on par with McCaffrey, which I think him & his agent will want. His best year was his rookie season & since then he's always injured. Additionally, I just don't like him as a runner. He dances too much & is always waiting for a hole to open instead of just going for it.

My fear is that Mara sees him as a face of the franchise & wants to re-up him for PR wise. And hopefully Gettleman is gone because Lord knows he'd sign him to a lifetime contract.
Why the hell would they pay him?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/22/2021 10:46 pm : link
He sucks
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/22/2021 10:48 pm : link
You know how they say at some point, it all becomes clear? Tonight’s the night for me.

Jones and Barkley need to go. They’re weighing down the franchise.
not an asset  
Alan W : 11/22/2021 10:48 pm : link
.
The only gold jacket  
Joey in VA : 11/22/2021 10:49 pm : link
Will come if he works for Century 21 post NFL career. He's a bum.
Worst pick in my 30+ years as a fan  
Go Terps : 11/22/2021 10:49 pm : link
.
He’s done.  
eric2425ny : 11/22/2021 10:52 pm : link
Booker comes in and can 1.) run effectively between the tackles and 2.) block. No more excuses, Barkley runs like he’s half his size.
He's absolute  
Giantophile : 11/22/2021 10:53 pm : link
Toast. Full stop.

Only the Giants would be ridiculous enough to even consider it.
Can't believe  
The Dude : 11/22/2021 10:53 pm : link
picking an RB 2nd overall didnt work.
Giants would be wise  
arniefez : 11/22/2021 10:55 pm : link
I'll take phrases you never hear for $1000 Alex.
Name a RB easier to tackle  
arniefez : 11/22/2021 10:55 pm : link
than Barkley. I haven't seen one.
RE: Name a RB easier to tackle  
Giantophile : 11/22/2021 11:02 pm : link
In comment 15462768 arniefez said:
Quote:
than Barkley. I haven't seen one.


Does Ron Dayne count?
RE: RE: Name a RB easier to tackle  
FStubbs : 11/22/2021 11:10 pm : link
In comment 15462821 Giantophile said:
Quote:
In comment 15462768 arniefez said:


Quote:


than Barkley. I haven't seen one.



Does Ron Dayne count?


Dayne at least had 300 pounds of fat you had to worry about.
Wise ?  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/22/2021 11:11 pm : link
It should be a foregone conclusion. But sadly it isn’t
Does anyone else wonder if Barkley would be better?  
trueblueinpw : 11/22/2021 11:12 pm : link
If he put two of those stickers under his eyes? I feel like with just one stocker maybe he’s getting too much glare under one eye and that could be causing him to lose focus in one eye.
......  
Micko : 11/22/2021 11:13 pm : link
Why would Barkley want to stay with this shit show? Ruined his career.
He has no value  
Jimmy Googs : 11/22/2021 11:13 pm : link
Kind of like an Engram although a RB

Yes.  
St. Jimmy : 11/22/2021 11:14 pm : link
I often wish I lived in an alternate universe where the rush to the podium in 2018 was to announce that Dave Gettleman was fired.
RE: ......  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/22/2021 11:26 pm : link
In comment 15462925 Micko said:
Quote:
Why would Barkley want to stay with this shit show? Ruined his career.


He's soft. How did they ruin his career. By handing him the ball thus outing him 225 Pound marshmallow?
Hate to break to you all  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/22/2021 11:30 pm : link
But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.
RE: .  
adamg : 11/22/2021 11:32 pm : link
In comment 15462697 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
You know how they say at some point, it all becomes clear? Tonight’s the night for me.

Jones and Barkley need to go. They’re weighing down the franchise.


Same. This was a brutal loss. Jones doesn't have it. And Barkley doesn't have it. I was actually impressed by a run at one point and it was #28. That and all the picks were nails in the coffin for me. Not that my opinion matters.
He plays so soft that it looks like he’s actively avoiding contact.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/22/2021 11:33 pm : link
..
RE: Name a RB easier to tackle  
GiantTuff1 : 11/22/2021 11:36 pm : link
In comment 15462768 arniefez said:
Quote:
than Barkley. I haven't seen one.


He’s great at tackling himself too.

Never seen a RB who can’t keep his feet like Barkley. Falls down 3x min every game.

Maybe having giant legs is not all you need to be a good rb. He looked slow out there and is still hesitant and dancing. Incredibly frustrating.
Who's paying him?  
Jerry in_DC : 11/22/2021 11:37 pm : link
Amazingly, Barkley might be underrated here at this point. Let's see if he can stay healthy the rest of the year. If he can get his athleticism back, he has value in the league.

I don't know if he's even going to get starting RB money right now. Maybe it's not here, but I hope he can go somewhere that can use his talents. Obviously a horrible pick, but he's not useless.
RE: RE: .  
GiantTuff1 : 11/22/2021 11:38 pm : link
In comment 15463039 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15462697 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


You know how they say at some point, it all becomes clear? Tonight’s the night for me.

Jones and Barkley need to go. They’re weighing down the franchise.



Same. This was a brutal loss. Jones doesn't have it. And Barkley doesn't have it. I was actually impressed by a run at one point and it was #28. That and all the picks were nails in the coffin for me. Not that my opinion matters.


Same. I was like ok finally there we go! Then I’m like oh wait that’s Booker…
He might be great on a team with a decent OL  
David B. : 11/23/2021 12:00 am : link
That ain't the Giants. He'll never do it here, and it's not even his fault. OBJ him for as much as they can get and let him be a star elsewhere.
RE: RE: RE: .  
jamalduff123 : 11/23/2021 2:01 am : link
In comment 15463064 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463039 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15462697 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


You know how they say at some point, it all becomes clear? Tonight’s the night for me.

Jones and Barkley need to go. They’re weighing down the franchise.



Same. This was a brutal loss. Jones doesn't have it. And Barkley doesn't have it. I was actually impressed by a run at one point and it was #28. That and all the picks were nails in the coffin for me. Not that my opinion matters.



Same. I was like ok finally there we go! Then I’m like oh wait that’s Booker…


Same here. I thought it was Barkley who ripped off a tough 10 yard run up the middle, then realized it was Booker. Barkley does not help this team. At best he's a 3rd down back, maybe occasionally split him out wide. I also find it hilarious how the media talks about Barkley's return to the lineup like it's going to ignite the offense. Anyone that watches the team regularly knows that he's a non factor. Toney is the most talented player on this team and should be getting the ball 10+ times per game.
I have always been open about liking the pick  
Matt M. : 11/23/2021 2:38 am : link
I was in favor of drafting him before they made the selection. I think that had just as much to do with my thoughts on that QB class as it did with my thoughts about Barkley. I certainly expected more from him. Even his great rookie season, when you look at it, was a bit of a mirage. How many of those yards were 1 big run the 2nd half of a meaningless game. Even still, the talent was there.

I believe calling him a bust or the worst pick ever is disingenuous. Whether you like the pick or not, that is way too far of an exaggeration. Whether you believe the rookie year was more mirage or just the real thing, that year alone makes the extreme negative labels sound silly to me.

That said, tonight I reached the point where I absolutely do not care if I ever see him take another snap in a Giants uniform. I think he is still a talented back who can probably succeed with a semblance of a professional OL in front of him. I just don't want to invest a dime to find out. It would be an unwise business move to offer him a second contract.
Saquon in no Tiki Barber.  
FatHeadTommy : 11/23/2021 3:52 am : link
I miss the days of Tiki running the ball for us. We didn't know how good we had it. I agree with most, I wanted Saquon, but he has to go.
RE: Hate to break to you all  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/23/2021 4:01 am : link
JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.
Exactly. Year Five options are now fully guaranteed. Exercising Barkley’s option after he blew out his knee was a questionable decision, but what’s done is done. He’s a $7MM Giant next year. We should all root for him to stay healthy and become the player Gettleman thought he would be. Unlikely, but not inconceivable as his knee and ankle improve.
RE: Name a RB easier to tackle  
Debaser : 11/23/2021 7:36 am : link
In comment 15462768 arniefez said:
Quote:
than Barkley. I haven't seen one.


Remember Perkins? They shipped him off to detriot. Although he was even tougher and at least gave you like 3 yards before going down. Kinda pathetic that we are comparing Barkley to 3rd string back you ship off to detriot though.

Wait a minute i am comparing a 3rd string back we shipped off to Detroit to Barkley Yea he has to go. He is stealing money at this point and I don't know his contract details but whatever is guaranteed you just grin and bear it and just release him to get whatever you can get back.
RE: RE: Hate to break to you all  
christian : 11/23/2021 7:39 am : link
In comment 15463271 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:


But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.

Exactly. Year Five options are now fully guaranteed. Exercising Barkley’s option after he blew out his knee was a questionable decision, but what’s done is done. He’s a $7MM Giant next year. We should all root for him to stay healthy and become the player Gettleman thought he would be. Unlikely, but not inconceivable as his knee and ankle improve.


I think the best outcome is Barkley regains some health and productivity, and he’s traded for a 3rd round pick.

At 7M it’s not a bad flyer for a competitive team, looking to add one more weapon.
RE: I have always been open about liking the pick  
.McL. : 11/23/2021 9:23 pm : link
In comment 15463255 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I was in favor of drafting him before they made the selection. I think that had just as much to do with my thoughts on that QB class as it did with my thoughts about Barkley. I certainly expected more from him. Even his great rookie season, when you look at it, was a bit of a mirage. How many of those yards were 1 big run the 2nd half of a meaningless game. Even still, the talent was there.

I believe calling him a bust or the worst pick ever is disingenuous. Whether you like the pick or not, that is way too far of an exaggeration. Whether you believe the rookie year was more mirage or just the real thing, that year alone makes the extreme negative labels sound silly to me.

That said, tonight I reached the point where I absolutely do not care if I ever see him take another snap in a Giants uniform. I think he is still a talented back who can probably succeed with a semblance of a professional OL in front of him. I just don't want to invest a dime to find out. It would be an unwise business move to offer him a second contract.

Matt,

I am the opposite of you. I never wanted Barkley. I wrote long posts about how it is unwise to draft RBs that high, as well as pointing out that his running style was a problem.

I have posted many time about how his rookie year was a mirage. He had a bunch of meaningless long runs and catches that padded his stats. But when I looked at success rate stats, Barkley was a complete failure even in his rookie year. He was consistently near the bottom of the league in success rate stats both running and receiving. Think of success rate as a plus play for the team. The top running backs are at about 55 to 60%. Very goo ones 45 to 55%. Middle of the pack 35 to 45%. Barkley languishes around 30%. In other words less than 1/3 of his touches his first 2 years, were good plays for the Giants. That is such bad statistic that it is crippling to the offense. I have long argues that Barkley is a net negative for the offense. I think that is becoming plainly obvious to everybody now.
Saquon fanboys  
penkap75 : 11/24/2021 8:12 am : link
I remember when myself and others here pointed out Saquon's obvious flaws as a RB we were told by Saquon nuthugging self appointed BBI football geniuses that we were low football IQ morons. When we pointed out his rookie year was a mirage (lots of negative plays inflated by big runs in garbage time) we were told we were fucking morons. Where are these BBI genius Saquon nuthuggers now? JAGs like Booker and Gallman somehow can be productive behind the same shitty line. Soft dancing doesn't work in the NFL.
The NY Giant Offensive Line wasn't good in 2018 either  
Jimmy Googs : 11/24/2021 8:20 am : link
so how the hell did he gain like 2,000 yards that year?

Where is that game...is it like Gone With The Wind?
RE: Hate to break to you all  
section125 : 11/24/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15463031 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.


Can you imagine how a Belichick, a Shanahan or a McVay would scheme up getting him the ball - I can. How about Kingsberry teaming him up with Murray?

No he is not a powerback as people thought, but get him in space and he is scary.

Somebody would trade for him.
RE: RE: Hate to break to you all  
Bear vs Shark : 11/24/2021 8:29 am : link
In comment 15465780 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463031 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.



Can you imagine how a Belichick, a Shanahan or a McVay would scheme up getting him the ball - I can. How about Kingsberry teaming him up with Murray?

No he is not a powerback as people thought, but get him in space and he is scary.

Somebody would trade for him.
He didn't look scary when he caught a pass and stutter stepped with nobody within 6 yards of him instead of running to the 1st down marker, ended up getting tackled short, and contributing to killing a drive.

He's not lethal in the open field. He tapdances and gets tackled almost immediately.

Tom Brady had a better move in the Bucs game than Saquon.

He fucking sucks and his rookie year was a total mirage.
His 2018 year wasn't a mirage  
Jimmy Googs : 11/24/2021 8:33 am : link
I saw it...every single game.

Where is it?
I know its unlikely but if he finishes strong  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/24/2021 8:35 am : link
AND there is a new GM, move him for draft picks. I bet you we can land a kid in Rd 2 that will outproduce him.
RE: RE: RE: Hate to break to you all  
section125 : 11/24/2021 8:39 am : link
In comment 15465785 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
In comment 15465780 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15463031 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.



Can you imagine how a Belichick, a Shanahan or a McVay would scheme up getting him the ball - I can. How about Kingsberry teaming him up with Murray?

No he is not a powerback as people thought, but get him in space and he is scary.

Somebody would trade for him.

He didn't look scary when he caught a pass and stutter stepped with nobody within 6 yards of him instead of running to the 1st down marker, ended up getting tackled short, and contributing to killing a drive.

He's not lethal in the open field. He tapdances and gets tackled almost immediately.

Tom Brady had a better move in the Bucs game than Saquon.

He fucking sucks and his rookie year was a total mirage.


Keep going with that. Guy is coming off an ankle injury and looked mechanical, yes.

The whole team looked like shit. Unprepared, uninspired and inept.
RE: His 2018 year wasn't a mirage  
penkap75 : 11/24/2021 8:48 am : link
In comment 15465788 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I saw it...every single game.

Where is it?


When rookie Saquon busts out a 60 yard td run hurdling over defenders (since he hates contact), its easy to forget all the negative plays he is responsible for that put our O behind schedule and 3 and out.
RE: RE: His 2018 year wasn't a mirage  
Jimmy Googs : 11/24/2021 8:53 am : link
In comment 15465807 penkap75 said:
Quote:
In comment 15465788 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


I saw it...every single game.

Where is it?



When rookie Saquon busts out a 60 yard td run hurdling over defenders (since he hates contact), its easy to forget all the negative plays he is responsible for that put our O behind schedule and 3 and out.


I remember a ton of negative plays. But also a lot of minimal ones and a lot of positive ones.

Are we saying the burst part of his game is just gone forever and we are now only left with the negative parts?

RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to break to you all  
Bear vs Shark : 11/24/2021 9:44 am : link
In comment 15465797 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15465785 Bear vs Shark said:


Quote:


In comment 15465780 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15463031 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.



Can you imagine how a Belichick, a Shanahan or a McVay would scheme up getting him the ball - I can. How about Kingsberry teaming him up with Murray?

No he is not a powerback as people thought, but get him in space and he is scary.

Somebody would trade for him.

He didn't look scary when he caught a pass and stutter stepped with nobody within 6 yards of him instead of running to the 1st down marker, ended up getting tackled short, and contributing to killing a drive.

He's not lethal in the open field. He tapdances and gets tackled almost immediately.

Tom Brady had a better move in the Bucs game than Saquon.

He fucking sucks and his rookie year was a total mirage.



Keep going with that. Guy is coming off an ankle injury and looked mechanical, yes.

The whole team looked like shit. Unprepared, uninspired and inept.


I got in an argument with some friends where I said Saquon was just Reggie Bush 2.0, and they all called me crazy. So I signed up for stat geek and plotted all of Reggie Bush's 2011 carries and all of Saquons 2018 carries on a spreadsheet - years when they both had 5 YPC. I will admit that I did not look at receiving and that's a big part to leave out, but I was talking about how the offense is just not functional with Saquon as a runner.

Findings as follows:

Barkley:

1307 yards on 261 carries

576 yards on highest gaining 13 carries (44% of yardage on top 5% of highest gaining carries)

781 yards on highest gaining 26 carries (59.7% of yardage on top 10% highest gaining carries)

Median ypc: 2

Mode ypc: 1

The most likely outcome of Saquon running the ball was a 1 yard gain.

34 carries resulted in negative yardage for a total of -99.

26 carries resulted in no gain.

41 carries resulted in 1 yard.


Bush:

1086 yards on 216 carries

328 yards on top 11 highest gaining carries

475 yards on top 22 highest gaining carries

median ypc: 3

mode ypc: 3

22 negative yardage runs for a total of -66 yards.

16 rushes resulted in no gain.

20 rushes resulted in 1 yard.


Who would you rather have to help this offense move the ball given the Giants talent level?

Barkley was like this in college also. I fucking hated the pick at the time, have hated it since. I hated his run style even when he was putting up at numbers because it's really not sustainable for an offense to move the ball.

Hell, the 2014-2015 "slant to Odell and wait for him to bail us out" offense was more sustainable
RE: RE: I have always been open about liking the pick  
FStubbs : 11/24/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15465597 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 15463255 Matt M. said:


Quote:


I was in favor of drafting him before they made the selection. I think that had just as much to do with my thoughts on that QB class as it did with my thoughts about Barkley. I certainly expected more from him. Even his great rookie season, when you look at it, was a bit of a mirage. How many of those yards were 1 big run the 2nd half of a meaningless game. Even still, the talent was there.

I believe calling him a bust or the worst pick ever is disingenuous. Whether you like the pick or not, that is way too far of an exaggeration. Whether you believe the rookie year was more mirage or just the real thing, that year alone makes the extreme negative labels sound silly to me.

That said, tonight I reached the point where I absolutely do not care if I ever see him take another snap in a Giants uniform. I think he is still a talented back who can probably succeed with a semblance of a professional OL in front of him. I just don't want to invest a dime to find out. It would be an unwise business move to offer him a second contract.


Matt,

I am the opposite of you. I never wanted Barkley. I wrote long posts about how it is unwise to draft RBs that high, as well as pointing out that his running style was a problem.

I have posted many time about how his rookie year was a mirage. He had a bunch of meaningless long runs and catches that padded his stats. But when I looked at success rate stats, Barkley was a complete failure even in his rookie year. He was consistently near the bottom of the league in success rate stats both running and receiving. Think of success rate as a plus play for the team. The top running backs are at about 55 to 60%. Very goo ones 45 to 55%. Middle of the pack 35 to 45%. Barkley languishes around 30%. In other words less than 1/3 of his touches his first 2 years, were good plays for the Giants. That is such bad statistic that it is crippling to the offense. I have long argues that Barkley is a net negative for the offense. I think that is becoming plainly obvious to everybody now.


I agree with this. But even if I were to say that his rookie year actually WAS great - what's he done since?

His rookie year, whatever one thinks of it, was clearly his peak. I said then that "Barkley's prime is right now, we're seeing him as good as he'll ever be" and that was correct.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to break to you all  
FStubbs : 11/24/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15465877 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
In comment 15465797 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15465785 Bear vs Shark said:


Quote:


In comment 15465780 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15463031 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


But we’re stuck with him for another year. No one is trading for him and we won’t outright release him.



Can you imagine how a Belichick, a Shanahan or a McVay would scheme up getting him the ball - I can. How about Kingsberry teaming him up with Murray?

No he is not a powerback as people thought, but get him in space and he is scary.

Somebody would trade for him.

He didn't look scary when he caught a pass and stutter stepped with nobody within 6 yards of him instead of running to the 1st down marker, ended up getting tackled short, and contributing to killing a drive.

He's not lethal in the open field. He tapdances and gets tackled almost immediately.

Tom Brady had a better move in the Bucs game than Saquon.

He fucking sucks and his rookie year was a total mirage.



Keep going with that. Guy is coming off an ankle injury and looked mechanical, yes.

The whole team looked like shit. Unprepared, uninspired and inept.



I got in an argument with some friends where I said Saquon was just Reggie Bush 2.0, and they all called me crazy. So I signed up for stat geek and plotted all of Reggie Bush's 2011 carries and all of Saquons 2018 carries on a spreadsheet - years when they both had 5 YPC. I will admit that I did not look at receiving and that's a big part to leave out, but I was talking about how the offense is just not functional with Saquon as a runner.

Findings as follows:

Barkley:

1307 yards on 261 carries

576 yards on highest gaining 13 carries (44% of yardage on top 5% of highest gaining carries)

781 yards on highest gaining 26 carries (59.7% of yardage on top 10% highest gaining carries)

Median ypc: 2

Mode ypc: 1

The most likely outcome of Saquon running the ball was a 1 yard gain.

34 carries resulted in negative yardage for a total of -99.

26 carries resulted in no gain.

41 carries resulted in 1 yard.


Bush:

1086 yards on 216 carries

328 yards on top 11 highest gaining carries

475 yards on top 22 highest gaining carries

median ypc: 3

mode ypc: 3

22 negative yardage runs for a total of -66 yards.

16 rushes resulted in no gain.

20 rushes resulted in 1 yard.


Who would you rather have to help this offense move the ball given the Giants talent level?

Barkley was like this in college also. I fucking hated the pick at the time, have hated it since. I hated his run style even when he was putting up at numbers because it's really not sustainable for an offense to move the ball.

Hell, the 2014-2015 "slant to Odell and wait for him to bail us out" offense was more sustainable


Yep. Barkley is basically not a RB at all. He's a gadget player. You have to scheme him into space for him to be a plus player.
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